RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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SavagePencil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by SavagePencil »

Tempest_2084 wrote:If I want to use my 5X with a vga monitor, what's the best hdmi to vga adapter to use? Do I have to set the 5X pro a certain output first, or will it auto detect my monitors resolution? I don't want to damage it.
Careful; you’re treading into religious war territory there, but I would say “one that works.” I have personally had good success with Tendak and HDFury devices.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

SavagePencil wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:If I want to use my 5X with a vga monitor, what's the best hdmi to vga adapter to use? Do I have to set the 5X pro a certain output first, or will it auto detect my monitors resolution? I don't want to damage it.
Careful; you’re treading into religious war territory there, but I would say “one that works.” I have personally had good success with Tendak and HDFury devices.
Like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Converter ... B01B7CEOVK

Or this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Gold-Plat ... B00VTJVJ3S


Also, will a VGA monitor (a good Trinitron) look about the same as a lower end PVM with 480i or 240p content using the 5X? I've checked and my monitor actually does up to 1200p.
SavagePencil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by SavagePencil »

I had luck with one that looked like the first link you posted.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

LDigital wrote:
Steven wrote:I put Thunder Force VI in to see if progressive scan changes anything and found that the lag does depend on your settings. It seems to be between 1.7ms and 3ms depending on how I configure it. I'm too lazy to put my PS2 away and test other systems/configurations, especially since it's almost 0100 and I only slept for like 5 hours yesterday and I really want to go to bed, but maybe someone else will do it.
I just updated and I am seeing 3ms no matter what. Which settings bring this down?
Basically everything changes it: playing interlaced vs progressive scan games (looks like Thunder Force VI in progressive scan has 0.3ms less lag than playing it in interlaced), output resolution, and I think also using the optimized setting thingies.
cfx
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by cfx »

Tempest_2084 wrote:If I want to use my 5X with a vga monitor, what's the best hdmi to vga adapter to use? Do I have to set the 5X pro a certain output first, or will it auto detect my monitors resolution? I don't want to damage it.
Yes, you have to set it. However, since you later stated your monitor supports up to 1200, it would probably be ok accepting any of the Retrotink's output resolutions.

As far as I have been able to determine in my attempts to do this same thing, only the 480p output works since it's the only 4:3 resolution. If that's not the case maybe someone else knows how to make other resolutions work. My monitor only works up to 1280 x 1024 though so maybe that's my problem.

To have the 5X default to a different resolution, set one of the profiles to that resolution and then set it to load that setting at startup.

To answer the other question, if you set the scanlines to be 100% (I forget exactly how the settings are labeled) you should get a PVM-like look. I wanted something more like an arcade monitor, and found that using some of the mask and other scanline settings, I could get that look as well.
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

cfx wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:If I want to use my 5X with a vga monitor, what's the best hdmi to vga adapter to use? Do I have to set the 5X pro a certain output first, or will it auto detect my monitors resolution? I don't want to damage it.
Yes, you have to set it. However, since you later stated your monitor supports up to 1200, it would probably be ok accepting any of the Retrotink's output resolutions.

As far as I have been able to determine in my attempts to do this same thing, only the 480p output works since it's the only 4:3 resolution.
There's very little upside to feeding high resolutions to a PC CRT. It's mechanical and analog. Feeding 480p should look fine. Scanlines will be thin, but it still looks nice.

I guess you could try something with scanlines at higher resolutions, but that's up to you. Adding a DVDO iScan 30/50/50pro to the chain as a DAC and scaler would probably handle any aspect ratio issues at high resolutions with only 6ms of latency. You should also be able fine tune the image using the monitor's menu. There's no scaling artifacts or penalties when a mechanical and analog PC CRT stretches/manipulates the image.

If OP is playing Atari, you should get pretty good results at 480p without fake scanlines or with the "too thin" scanlines on the monitor. High resolutions won't make the image sharper on a PC monitor or make the scanlines thick enough. I don't think Atari benefits from vertical scanline effects at all. Back the early 1980's, there was no screen door effect on our home televisions.

Please, no NES or SNES generation kids comments on the early 1980's. If you don't know, don't comment. If you were unborn or two years old, hush.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

orange808 wrote: There's very little upside to feeding high resolutions to a PC CRT. It's mechanical and analog. Feeding 480p should look fine. Scanlines will be thin, but it still looks nice.

I guess you could try something with scanlines at higher resolutions, but that's up to you. Adding a DVDO iScan 30/50/50pro to the chain as a DAC and scaler would probably handle any aspect ratio issues at high resolutions with only 6ms of latency. You should also be able fine tune the image using the monitor's menu. There's no scaling artifacts or penalties when a mechanical and analog PC CRT stretches/manipulates the image.

If OP is playing Atari, you should get pretty good results at 480p without fake scanlines or with the "too thin" scanlines on the monitor. High resolutions won't make the image sharper on a PC monitor or make the scanlines thick enough. I don't think Atari benefits from vertical scanline effects at all. Back the early 1980's, there was no screen door effect on our home televisions.
My thinking was that I could use my VGA monitor (which is super nice) as an alternative to my PVM which is good, but not as nice as my VGA monitor. Both are 20" so size isn't a factor, just convergence and geometry (not to mention my PVM has some very light burn in). Currently I have my 2600, 5200, and Wii hooked up to my TV via S-Video and my Colecovision, NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, Saturn, TG-16, and PSX hooked up via RGB converted to Component (DC is always on my VGA monitor). With my PVM I can get rid of the Shinybow and use pure RGB but the colors on my PVM through S-Video look a bit wonky (I think it just has crappy S-Video for whatever reason). That's why I started wondering about using my 5X to hook things to my Dell Ultrascan 1600HS.

Currently I'm using my 5X to hook my later Component based systems (XBox, GC, PSP, and PS2) to my modern LCD TV, but as that TV already takes component input it seems like a waste. IIRC these systems looked great without the 5X Pro (although I'd have to do a comparison to be sure). Maybe the PSP and The GameBoy player take advantage of the 5X? I'd have to do some investigation.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Looks like the adapter works well with my monitor. I noticed that the image doesn't fill the screen (I didn't bother moving or adjusting the picture), I wonder if this has something to do with keeping the correct ratio or something. Ignore the distortion pattern, I was using a cheap cable to test this.

One issue is that the scanline generation really darkens the picture. I wish there was a way around this other than crank up the brightness.
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iceman_0
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by iceman_0 »

I also got myself a Retro 5x and I am really happy with so far. I have a question about the pal Gamecube. In the past I was using RGB Scart for my Gamecube and I was happy with the quality. That cable spoiled though and I need to upgrade. Do you guys think it would be worth considering a component cable like the one from Kaico to use with the Retro tink 5x or shall I just get another RGB scart cable?
As a simple pal user, I cannot get 480p anyway so I wonder how much better component would look on the retro tink over the plain RGB cable? Are there any gamecube user in this thread that can answer my question.
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Extrems
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Extrems »

It will look plain worse than SCART RGB.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:

Currently I'm using my 5X to hook my later Component based systems (XBox, GC, PSP, and PS2) to my modern LCD TV, but as that TV already takes component input it seems like a waste. IIRC these systems looked great without the 5X Pro (although I'd have to do a comparison to be sure). Maybe the PSP and The GameBoy player take advantage of the 5X? I'd have to do some investigation.
Is your TV 4K? If so and it can accept 1440p you can add scanlines to 480p content and it will scale evenly and should look a lot better than just feeding say a GC via component 480p to your TV. Even if your TV is only 1080p, you can get a really nice CRT-like look with vertical scanlines that scale perfectly to 1080p. IMO this looks far better than any 1080p will scale 480p console images on its own. Example can be found below.


https://i.imgur.com/BzlRgJ8.jpg

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cfx
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by cfx »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Looks like the adapter works well with my monitor. I noticed that the image doesn't fill the screen (I didn't bother moving or adjusting the picture), I wonder if this has something to do with keeping the correct ratio or something. Ignore the distortion pattern, I was using a cheap cable to test this.
That's just how analog video is; you need to do the adjustments on the monitor to fill the screen.
One issue is that the scanline generation really darkens the picture. I wish there was a way around this other than crank up the brightness.
If you want the completely black scanlines like you have there, for that PVM look, this is just how it is. It was the same thing with any such device, including the all-analog XRGBs like the XRGB-2.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Another thing I noticed is that the colors seemed muted (the pictures make them look more vibrant than they are). I don't know if this is my monitor just being old and worn out or if it's the adapter I was using. I got one of the Tendak adapters that everyone says works the best, but it's also the one that recently changed and apparently is now bad.
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Kez
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Kez »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Currently I'm using my 5X to hook my later Component based systems (XBox, GC, PSP, and PS2) to my modern LCD TV, but as that TV already takes component input it seems like a waste. IIRC these systems looked great without the 5X Pro (although I'd have to do a comparison to be sure). Maybe the PSP and The GameBoy player take advantage of the 5X? I'd have to do some investigation.
I would expect the RT5x to do a better job than your TV with all of these, but the PS2 in particular - most games are interlaced and the RT5x is a very competent and fast motion adaptive deinterlacer. Modern TVs by comparison are likely to introduce a lot of lag when deinterlacing.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Kez wrote: I would expect the RT5x to do a better job than your TV with all of these, but the PS2 in particular - most games are interlaced and the RT5x is a very competent and fast motion adaptive deinterlacer. Modern TVs by comparison are likely to introduce a lot of lag when deinterlacing.
Ah ok. The PS2 is my main system I play with so I'll keep the 5X on the TV then. If I go the VGA monitor route for my other systems maybe I'll invest in a cheaper scaler like an OSSC as the VGA monitor doesn't need the extra bells and whistles the 5X has.
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parodius
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by parodius »

Firmware 3.0 is out, downscaling to 240p is back as well as to 480i.

https://www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-5x-firmware-v30.html
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EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Steven wrote:So the new firmware update reduces lag and lets you see the lag in the menu. Using my PS2, triple buffer, frame lock, and gen lock all say 2ms of lag. That's interesting.
It should be noted that the reported buffer lag in the new firmware only applies to frame lock or genlock output modes. Triple buffer will still have the same variable lag up to 1.25 frames.

The most I’ve seen is 4.4ms of lag in normal use. That’s with a 50hz signal @ 1440p with custom scaler settings to correct the aspect ratio while maintaining even scanlines. You can force the lag up by moving the image absurdly high up as demonstrated by Mike and Bob on the recent RetroRGB stream.
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Lomax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Lomax »

marus wrote:This is a year late, but for anyone who used my previous remote overlay, I finally got around to updating it for the new v2.00 menu.

New download link
Anyone selling these? I purchased this one for the v1.00 menu:

https://retrolabs.com/products/retrotin ... 0c07&_ss=r

I'd like to get something similar now for the v2.00 menu.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

EnragedWhale wrote:
Steven wrote:So the new firmware update reduces lag and lets you see the lag in the menu. Using my PS2, triple buffer, frame lock, and gen lock all say 2ms of lag. That's interesting.
It should be noted that the reported buffer lag in the new firmware only applies to frame lock or genlock output modes. Triple buffer will still have the same variable lag up to 1.25 frames.
Then it shouldn't say that it has anything else.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Steven wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:
Steven wrote:So the new firmware update reduces lag and lets you see the lag in the menu. Using my PS2, triple buffer, frame lock, and gen lock all say 2ms of lag. That's interesting.
It should be noted that the reported buffer lag in the new firmware only applies to frame lock or genlock output modes. Triple buffer will still have the same variable lag up to 1.25 frames.
Then it shouldn't say that it has anything else.
It doesn’t. It’s reporting the buffer lag, not total lag and is labelled as such. It says right there in the firmware update notes. I can’t imagine it’s possible to do triple buffer any faster. Everyone should be using genlock or frame lock anyway assuming their display can handle it. Triple buffer is a compatibility mode, but even then is still very low lag.
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768peeistrash
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by 768peeistrash »

EnragedWhale wrote: Everyone should be using genlock or frame lock anyway assuming their display can handle it. Triple buffer is a compatibility mode, but even then is still very low lag.
Nah, triple buffer for fast 240p/480i switching is the way
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

768peeistrash wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote: Everyone should be using genlock or frame lock anyway assuming their display can handle it. Triple buffer is a compatibility mode, but even then is still very low lag.
Nah, triple buffer for fast 240p/480i switching is the way
That is a good point. Depends on how fast your display is though. My C1 switches quick enough it’s not an issue in any game I’ve played. I don’t own the torture test that is Resi 2 + expansion pak though! I have a launch RT5X so can’t test it but apparently Genlock + VRR is immune to sync drops when changing resolutions on some displays.
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Odolwa
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Odolwa »

What is gen lock?
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parodius
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by parodius »

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parodius
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by parodius »

EnragedWhale wrote:apparently Genlock + VRR is immune to sync drops when changing resolutions on some displays.
Do you know if this applies to comp/s-vid only or RGB/YPbPr as well?
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Shake Your Rump
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Shake Your Rump »

This seems to be the only forum discussing this device outside of Reddit (or discord).

After all this time, anyone want to share their preferred CRT mask settings? I’ve tinkered a bit, but always come back to the default PVM600 settings. Currently playing Wild Arms on the PS1 and was surprised that I actually like the “consumer-2” settings.

What are you folks using for 240p mask effects?
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Odolwa
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Odolwa »

That link doesn’t explain what genlock is.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

EnragedWhale wrote:It doesn’t. It’s reporting the buffer lag, not total lag and is labelled as such. It says right there in the firmware update notes. I can’t imagine it’s possible to do triple buffer any faster. Everyone should be using genlock or frame lock anyway assuming their display can handle it. Triple buffer is a compatibility mode, but even then is still very low lag.
Does the triple buffer not cause the lag, seeing as the lag is specifically only there when the triple buffer is active? In that case it should definitely say that it has more than a few ms of lag with the triple buffer active.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Steven wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:It doesn’t. It’s reporting the buffer lag, not total lag and is labelled as such. It says right there in the firmware update notes. I can’t imagine it’s possible to do triple buffer any faster. Everyone should be using genlock or frame lock anyway assuming their display can handle it. Triple buffer is a compatibility mode, but even then is still very low lag.
Does the triple buffer not cause the lag, seeing as the lag is specifically only there when the triple buffer is active? In that case it should definitely say that it has more than a few ms of lag with the triple buffer active.
The buffer lag readout is there at all times and doesn’t change when you switch between the different frame output modes. It’s the base lag that the RT5X requires to achieve the scaling you’ve selected. It’s the exact lag you’ll get in frame or gen lock modes. Remember the RT5X is a upscaler, not a line doubler so it needs a few more ms than an OSSC etc.

Triple buffer adds lags on top of this which is unavoidable due to the nature of how triple buffering works.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

parodius wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:apparently Genlock + VRR is immune to sync drops when changing resolutions on some displays.
Do you know if this applies to comp/s-vid only or RGB/YPbPr as well?
I don’t sorry. I’d test it for you but I have a launch RT5X without genlock.
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