RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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hyp36rmax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by hyp36rmax »

digitron wrote:Just discovered I get no video on my Raiden 2 board but the same Supergun works fine with other PCB's, is it related to this and is there something on the RT5X I can adjust?
zakk wrote:The Raiden Fighters games have a vertical refresh rate that most LCDs aren't going to handle (54hz). If your'e connecting directly to an LCD panel, even through svideo or composite that is why you aren't getting video. It's not an issue with the supergun, it's the display. The only way that game is going to work on a random Dell LCD panel is if you use a scaler that also does frame rate conversion.


shmupsrocks wrote:What connection type are you using for RGB to those TVs? I need to buy a small 9" composite CRT just for testing.

Care to give any of those a try with composite (or S-video) to see if there's an incompatibility with the encoder in the Sigma?

EDIT: FWIW it's not Raiden Fighters 2 I'm having trouble with it's Raiden Fighters 1.
Same issue Midway PCB's such as Mortal Kombat Trilogy will suffer. @mikechi mentioned a possible solution to these weird arcade pcb refresh rates can be similar to what he did with GBI. It remains to be seen until he can acquire sample boards. He does have a Super gun though. We also have to take into account if our superguns also supports sync regeneration such as HAS 4.1. Earlier models have issues with Taito F3 + RetroTINK5X due to the lack of Sync Regen.

Midway Mortal Kombat + RetroTINK5x Idea: https://twitter.com/hyp36rmax/status/14 ... 08965?s=20

HAS 4.1 Sync regeneration + RetroTINK5X Discussion: https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads ... ost-289473
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hyp36rmax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by hyp36rmax »

I also think there's a handful of popular Arcade PCB's that actually have an issue with RetroTINK5X. Mainly the prime suspects from Midway, Cave.
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digitron
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by digitron »

hyp36rmax wrote:
digitron wrote:Just discovered I get no video on my Raiden 2 board but the same Supergun works fine with other PCB's, is it related to this and is there something on the RT5X I can
Same issue Midway PCB's such as Mortal Kombat Trilogy will suffer. @mikechi mentioned a possible solution to these weird arcade pcb refresh rates can be similar to what he did with GBI. It remains to be seen until he can acquire sample boards. He does have a Super gun though. We also have to take into account if our superguns also supports sync regeneration such as HAS 4.1. Earlier models have issues with Taito F3 + RetroTINK5X due to the lack of Sync Regen.

Midway Mortal Kombat + RetroTINK5x Idea: https://twitter.com/hyp36rmax/status/14 ... 08965?s=20

HAS 4.1 Sync regeneration + RetroTINK5X Discussion: https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads ... ost-289473
Ah! Ok that makes sense, thanks for the quick reply. I'd offer to ship Mike a pcb if that helps.
Valandil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Valandil »

Hello all, I’m thinking of buying an RT5X in the next available batch however I have some questions that hopefully you guys can help me answer.

One of the main features that get me really excited is the 1440p output however I don’t know if my tv is compatible, I have an LG C1 and I believe it does 1440p at 120 frames, not sure if also at 60. Looking for posts about it I found some people successfully running 1440p out of the RT5X without an issue in LG CXs (which is very similar to the C1) but a reddit post suggest it’s not supported: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/ ... ot_having/

Do you guys have any experience with the LG CX/C1 and the RT5X in 1440p?

Oh and also, does the RT5X plays nice with the gcompsw? I love that thing!

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already.
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djc5166
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by djc5166 »

Valandil wrote:Hello all, I’m thinking of buying an RT5X in the next available batch however I have some questions that hopefully you guys can help me answer.

One of the main features that get me really excited is the 1440p output however I don’t know if my tv is compatible, I have an LG C1 and I believe it does 1440p at 120 frames, not sure if also at 60. Looking for posts about it I found some people successfully running 1440p out of the RT5X without an issue in LG CXs (which is very similar to the C1) but a reddit post suggest it’s not supported: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/ ... ot_having/

Do you guys have any experience with the LG CX/C1 and the RT5X in 1440p?

Oh and also, does the RT5X plays nice with the gcompsw? I love that thing!

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already.
My G1 supports 1440p in the modes I've tried, so I don't see why C1 wouldn't. The main difference between them is the panel, the electronics are the same afaik.
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Valandil wrote:Hello all, I’m thinking of buying an RT5X in the next available batch however I have some questions that hopefully you guys can help me answer.

One of the main features that get me really excited is the 1440p output however I don’t know if my tv is compatible, I have an LG C1 and I believe it does 1440p at 120 frames, not sure if also at 60. Looking for posts about it I found some people successfully running 1440p out of the RT5X without an issue in LG CXs (which is very similar to the C1) but a reddit post suggest it’s not supported: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/ ... ot_having/

Do you guys have any experience with the LG CX/C1 and the RT5X in 1440p?

Oh and also, does the RT5X plays nice with the gcompsw? I love that thing!

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already.
Digging further in that thread it looks like 1440p from the RT5X does in fact work, it was his mClassic that couldn't work with the display. I have a B9 and it takes almost everything the OSSC can throw at it other than some optimized modes in 1200p, so I'd be surprised if the 1440p didn't work fine.
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Valandil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Valandil »

djc5166 wrote: My G1 supports 1440p in the modes I've tried, so I don't see why C1 wouldn't. The main difference between them is the panel, the electronics are the same afaik.
Thank you! Yeah if your G1 supports 1440p, the C1 should be the same.
bobrocks95 wrote: Digging further in that thread it looks like 1440p from the RT5X does in fact work, it was his mClassic that couldn't work with the display. I have a B9 and it takes almost everything the OSSC can throw at it other than some optimized modes in 1200p, so I'd be surprised if the 1440p didn't work fine.
Ohh I see, looks like I didn't dig deep enough in the post lol, thank you for the response!

Then it's a safe bet that my TV will work, now just to wait for the next batch. The Optimal Sampling Modes and the filters look fantastic in screenshots, I bet they look even better in person!
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WobblingPixels
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by WobblingPixels »

I don't know about C1 but there is difference between 1440p60 forced or native. C9 does not support the mode 1440p60 of the RetroTINk5x but does support 1440p60hz when its forced via PC (graphics card). CX on the other hand does support 1440p60 natively.
Valandil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Valandil »

WobblingPixels wrote:I don't know about C1 but there is difference between 1440p60 forced or native. C9 does not support the mode 1440p60 of the RetroTINk5x but does support 1440p60hz when its forced via PC (graphics card). CX on the other hand does support 1440p60 natively.
Sorry for the dumb question I'm about to make but forced would mean that the tv has to do additional processing/scaling as opposed to native? Or what would be the difference? A forced 1440p would result in added lag and degraded picture quality?
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WobblingPixels
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by WobblingPixels »

Valandil wrote:
WobblingPixels wrote:I don't know about C1 but there is difference between 1440p60 forced or native. C9 does not support the mode 1440p60 of the RetroTINk5x but does support 1440p60hz when its forced via PC (graphics card). CX on the other hand does support 1440p60 natively.
Sorry for the dumb question I'm about to make but forced would mean that the tv has to do additional processing/scaling as opposed to native? Or what would be the difference? A forced 1440p would result in added lag and degraded picture quality?
Forcing means using PC so the graphics card forces 1440p/60hz with oled lg c9 tv connected. I don't know any way to force R5x 1440p mode.
Valandil
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Valandil »

WobblingPixels wrote: Forcing means using PC so the graphics card forces 1440p/60hz with oled lg c9 tv connected. I don't know any way to force R5x 1440p mode.
Ahh I see, thanks for the clarification!
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Just saw Mikes preview on Twitter of the menu system he is working on and it looks awesome. Its going to be nice!
daty2k1
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by daty2k1 »

Josh128 wrote:Just saw Mikes preview on Twitter of the menu system he is working on and it looks awesome. Its going to be nice!
Oh yeah, can't wait for this update!
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Got a link? I couldn't find anything on his Twitter.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

bobrocks95 wrote:Got a link? I couldn't find anything on his Twitter.
https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6393872389
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Oh didn't go back far enough lol.
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hyp36rmax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by hyp36rmax »

Rejoice for all of you in need of a way to pass VGA HD15 to your RetroTINK5X Pro's!

Just received both RetroUpgrades VGA2SCART and Rondo HD15-2-SCART. Both work great! can't go wrong with either option!

Rondo HD15-2-SCART: Attract mode sample: https://youtu.be/ZqW0Zc-R1zQ
RetroUpgrades VGA2SCART: Attract mode sample: https://youtu.be/FtpSDpUbzV4

In-game comparison shots: https://imgur.com/gallery/hDJXnFK

Post with my thoughts: viewtopic.php?p=1472525#p1472525

Image

Image

Testing Rondo HD15-2-SCART with Tatsunoko VS Capcom Arcade Based Wii

Image

Testing RetroUpgrade VGA2SCART with Tatsunoko VS Capcom Arcade Based Wii

Image
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incrediblehark
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by incrediblehark »

Looking forward to the new menu system as well! just saw the pics looks very nice! Hopefully this will solve my problem of the UI being cut off on my crt due to overscan.
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Lomax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Lomax »

Guys, just wondering why my PAL SNES (via RGB) looks better in Generic 4:3 rather than the specific SNES mode:

https://imgur.com/a/E3KfSoN

I'm running firmware 1.99.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

The SD2SNES menu runs in 512 horizontal. The SNES 256 mode is for 256 pixels horizontal (99% of the SNES library).
bryan_c
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bryan_c »

Steven wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
Steven wrote:Is anyone else getting this line on 1080p (under) on 1.98 and 1.99?

https://imgur.com/a/lC0sjk9

I have not tried reverting to older firmware yet, but this seems to only affect 1080p (under) on 1.98 and 1.99 as far as I have seen, as it was definitely not there before.
I'm on 1.98 and it seems fine for me. USA PS2 Slim with component cables.

https://imgur.com/a/vdwepC0
Alright, interesting. I tried some garbage PowerA PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 3-in-1 component cable and the line is still there. Tried Dreamcast S-video and it's not there on S-video. Tried the official Sony PS1 S-video cable on PS2 and it's not there. Maybe my YPbPr input has become weird, but I haven't even used the RetroTINK recently since I've been using the Dreamcast + OSSC exclusively for the past 3 weeks. Doesn't hurt anything, but it's still weird. I'll try different HDMI and power cables and see if that fixes it. It's not just the PS2, either, as I plugged the same HR Retrovision cable into my Nomad and it had the line as well.

Okay, I tried a few different power and HDMI cables. No change. I guess I'll just ignore it unless it gets worse or something.

So I went back to my original cables and everything, cycled through the resolutions to see what all is available besides 1080p (under) and it's gone now. Not sure what to make of that, but okay.

Well, back again. It's apparently legal to do construction in a residential area at 0120 in Tokyo and the noise is kind of annoying, so I tried it again. Now the line came back, but it's bigger and now it's purple. Then I cycled through the resolutions again and it went away again. How strange.
Sometimes I see the bright vertical line on 1080p(UNDER) too, but sometimes it's not there. Changing output resolutions on various screens of the PS2 menu sometimes makes it appear or disappear the next time it gets back to 1080p(UNDER), though I haven't figured out a pattern yet. For a bit I thought, switching to 1080p(UNDER) while in the browser (mostly white screen) made it appear, and switching to it on the home screen (mostly black screen) made it disappear, but after a few more tries it's not consistent so I don't know.
Steven wrote:
daty2k1 wrote:
Steven wrote: Yes, it looks washed out to me when using anything other than polyphase. The video LPF does something very similar when set to medium, as well, but the rest of the video LPF settings don't seem to change it much.
Yes my bad, I was thinking polyphase scanlines.

Maybe "washed out" is a bit strong and I agree that it is not that bad. But when switching between settings, it is quite noticable and I prefer the colors without it.

However, I know it's maybe not ideal to have yet another setting, at least with the current menu.
Yeah, some of the scanline settings seem to be more washed out than others, as is the medium video low-pass filter. I will say that I kind of miss the aperture grille scanlines from 1.74 that got removed in 1.77, though, as those looked much closer to what my Trinitron looks like than any other fake scanlines I've ever seen, even if the width between the scanlines was far too wide. Something like the behaviour of the aperture grille from 1.74 where the vertical lines are far more pronounced than the horizontal lines, especially over white/etc., where the horizontal lines basically disappear completely, but with the same mask size of the aperture grille from the other firmware versions would be a perfect match for my Trinitron, but I guess this is how it is.
I think I'd really like some of the fancy scanline modes in the newer firmwares more, except colours seem too washed out compared to polyphase 25%. Is this an intentional part how these scanline options work, or maybe the "gamma and saturation compensation for all scanline modes" mentioned in the firmware version history?

With basic line-only scanlines on older scalers I preferred using the lighter scanline settings (maybe 10-20% darkness) to avoid affecting the colours and brightness too much but with the 5x only the polyphase and int mod scanlines have any intensity options. Would it make sense to have a separate scanline intensity option that would apply to all scanline options (maybe only once the new menu system is ready) instead of or in addition to options to affect gamma and saturation?

Also on the subject of scanlines, I notice the "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing option from (I think) firmware 1.24 is gone in 1.99. To be clear, I don't think the CRT Simulate option in 1.24 looked good, but before I updated I figured the reason it didn't look good was because the associated scanlines were too dark for my taste (and it was weird how they combined with the scanline menu's scanlines). Faint alternating field-based scanlines is something I miss from my old XRGB-3; I want to say its deinterlacer was like the 5x's bob deinterlacer, but with the option of having scanlines of adjustable intensity alternating between source lines on each input field (odd fields having the scanline effect applied to even lines, and vice versa).

So, would it be too much to ask that when the scanline option is set to one of the lined modes (polyphase, integer, or int mod) and the source is interlaced, and the deinterlacing mode is bob or weave (or maybe others), that the chosen scanline effect would apply to alternate source lines on alternate source fields? Unsure about consumer-2, would it be better or worse if its slight scanline effect bounced up and down with interlaced sources? Also unsure about the other (better) deinterlacing modes, my first thought was that it would also be nice to keep scanlines in place sometimes (eg. Mega Man 9 on the Wii should have been 240p or 480p but is 480i only, fixed scanlines would simulate 240p better than alternating ones), and maybe if one of the better deinterlacing options was in use it might be better to pretend the source was progressive (to avoid adding another option), but maybe that would be too confusing? In any case I understand all this is several layers of niche deep and that there are more important things to focus on.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Yes, once a menu is operational all adjustments possible

Too many uninformed complaints from people that the "RT5X broke my TV" due to image retention from CRT simulation and related effects that cause flicker, so it is gone.
Last edited by mikechi2 on Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lomax
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Lomax »

I'm starting to think a "Simple" mode and an "Advanced" mode in that new menu system of yours might be the go Mike.

Then you could hide stuff like that from the normies.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

bryan_c wrote: Sometimes I see the bright vertical line on 1080p(UNDER) too, but sometimes it's not there. Changing output resolutions on various screens of the PS2 menu sometimes makes it appear or disappear the next time it gets back to 1080p(UNDER), though I haven't figured out a pattern yet. For a bit I thought, switching to 1080p(UNDER) while in the browser (mostly white screen) made it appear, and switching to it on the home screen (mostly black screen) made it disappear, but after a few more tries it's not consistent so I don't know.
In my case, it's just always there on 1080p (under) unless I cycle through resolutions. I was testing something on one of my Japanese Mega Drives earlier today and I couldn't get it to go away at all, so I just ignored it. Not sure if it's getting worse or not, but it's there and most of the time it still goes away, but sometimes I have to cycle through multiple times to get it to go away. Maybe a week or 2 ago I reverted to an earlier firmware (1.77? I forgot which one it was, but I think it was that one), and it fixed the problem entirely. Changed back to 1.99 and it's back again.
bryan_c wrote:I think I'd really like some of the fancy scanline modes in the newer firmwares more, except colours seem too washed out compared to polyphase 25%. Is this an intentional part how these scanline options work, or maybe the "gamma and saturation compensation for all scanline modes" mentioned in the firmware version history?

With basic line-only scanlines on older scalers I preferred using the lighter scanline settings (maybe 10-20% darkness) to avoid affecting the colours and brightness too much but with the 5x only the polyphase and int mod scanlines have any intensity options. Would it make sense to have a separate scanline intensity option that would apply to all scanline options (maybe only once the new menu system is ready) instead of or in addition to options to affect gamma and saturation?
I basically just don't use the scanlines. The closest fake scanlines I've seen to my Trinitron (it's a KV-29DR1) were the 1.74 aperture grille scanlines, which were extremely close to the real thing, but those died in the next firmware update. Honestly I can't even see the scanlines on my KV-29DR1 unless my face is basically touching the glass anyway, so no big deal.
garbagehead4
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by garbagehead4 »

Hi all, I was planning to use the RT5X with a 4:3 PC CRT monitor like I do with the OSSC, but I'm not sure if I'll run into some incompatibilities. If anyone else uses the RT5X with a setup like this, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!

1. Is the 1200p mode 1600x1200, or is it 1920x1200?

2. Can I do straight passthru for 480p (640x480)? If so, can I still take advantage of the optimal DTV 858 sampling while in passthru?

3. What's the difference between DTV-A and DTV-B sampling? The firmware page didn't seem to specify what the difference was aside from just "try B if A doesn't look good" etc.

Thanks!
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Why would you want to do 480p passthrough (with the accompanying analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion) rather than just feeding the 480p directly to the monitor?
garbagehead4
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by garbagehead4 »

Guspaz wrote:Why would you want to do 480p passthrough (with the accompanying analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion) rather than just feeding the 480p directly to the monitor?
I'd be using it for Wii/Xbox YPbPr. The PC CRT naturally only takes VGA input, so I'd be using the RT5X as a YPbPr to HDMI transcoder for 480p, with an HDMI to VGA adapter out of it into the monitor. This arrangement works incredibly well with the OSSC and surprisingly doesn't add latency.
eightbitminiboss
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by eightbitminiboss »

garbagehead4 wrote:Hi all, I was planning to use the RT5X with a 4:3 PC CRT monitor like I do with the OSSC, but I'm not sure if I'll run into some incompatibilities. If anyone else uses the RT5X with a setup like this, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!

1. Is the 1200p mode 1600x1200, or is it 1920x1200?

2. Can I do straight passthru for 480p (640x480)? If so, can I still take advantage of the optimal DTV 858 sampling while in passthru?

3. What's the difference between DTV-A and DTV-B sampling? The firmware page didn't seem to specify what the difference was aside from just "try B if A doesn't look good" etc.

Thanks!
1200p is 1920x1200. At least that's what my capture card reports it as.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

I'd be using it for Wii/Xbox YPbPr. The PC CRT naturally only takes VGA input, so I'd be using the RT5X as a YPbPr to HDMI transcoder for 480p, with an HDMI to VGA adapter out of it into the monitor. This arrangement works incredibly well with the OSSC and surprisingly doesn't add latency.[/quote]
There's no latency, sure, but wouldn't it be simpler to use a COMP2RGB, and if the monitor doesn't support RGBS natively (my old PC CRT did), a SCART2VGA?
stranno
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by stranno »

Can you guys check this issue on your Wii?

https://twitter.com/9esferas_/status/14 ... 5743217672

I'm using third party cables, but they should be ok. It doesn't happen on XRGB-Mini and I don't recall it happening on older RT5X firmwares. I am running FW 1.99.
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