RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[Tempest_2084]

RGB SCART cables preferably use 75 ohm sync-on-luma or sync on composite. CSYNC directly from a console with the appropriate attenuation will generally work. Do not use TTL CSYNC or anything with a sync stripper in it.

How does one tell if their cable uses TTL CSYNC or not? I'm assuming that if you're using standard SCART cables and switch boxes that you're not using TTL.

[bahamutfan64]

Regarding motion adaptive deinterlacing, is that in a sense a generic term in the sense that each of the three scalers will have their own interpretation or algorithm, or is there an open source solution that everyone is using as a base of sorts?

Just really curious how all three will tackle such a fickle problem!

[H6rdc0re]

Would it be possible to add a black mask for the optimised Mega Drive/Genesis 256 and 320 modes?

[Greg2600]

May have been asked, but how much power via microUSB is needed for this Pro? For instance, I've got my Roku powered from the FIOS STB USB jack, is that good enough, or a separate AC adapter is needed?

[Jefferson]

May have been asked, but how much power via microUSB is needed for this Pro? For instance, I've got my Roku powered from the FIOS STB USB jack, is that good enough, or a separate AC adapter is needed?

< 800 mA over microUSB

From the manual.

[James-F]

This thing packs so much value, it's unbelievable.
Mike is a genius, the RT5x is god sent.

Averaging 1 frame of lag in buffered mode.
Goodbye sync drops, you will not be missed EVER

This is closest to CRT replacement any upscaler got, with zero tweaking and superb output quality.
It can be used well beyond retro gaming, like analog video preservation, museums, demonstrations, or anything that requires highest quality analog video in this day and age of 4K TVs with no analog inputs.

[PixelDharma]

I'm starving for more motion adaptive deinterlace footage. If anyone could just put up a reel of different PS2 games that would be swell

[fernan1234]

This thing packs so much value, it's unbelievable.
Mike is a genius, the RT5x is god sent.

Do you have any thoughts or suggestions for gamma adjustments when scanlines are used with the RT5X? I know you looked into this question with the OSSC since scanlines were implemented on it. And now the OSSC has the advantage of hybrid scanline settings which help quite a bit with this matter, but it looks like the RT5X won't have much adjustability for scanlines, in line with its zero/low tweaking design approach.

[twotone8]

As for the warning against using TTL or sync strippers, is it safe to assume that the RetroTink5x will play nice with the GScartSW and it's sync regeneration feature?

[mikechi2]

As for the warning against using TTL or sync strippers, is it safe to assume that the RetroTink5x will play nice with the GScartSW and it's sync regeneration feature?

All my testing was done with the gcompsw to the point where I'm now concerned it doesn't work *without* it. I'll need to test the gscartsw one more time but it's well designed piece of kit. I don't see why it wouldn't work perfectly.

[fernan1234]

I can see the problem with TTL, but what would be the issue with sync strippers?

[mikechi2]

I can see the problem with TTL, but what would be the issue with sync strippers?

Mainly it shifts the image to the left which is slightly annoying but no big deal. However, badly implemented sync strippers can introduce spurious pulses that mess up the hsync.

[fernan1234]

OK that makes sense. Shouldn't be an issue in most cases but it's good to make note of it.

Gonna get the 5X day one, but as a DB15 master race user I won't be able to make the most of it until the adapter comes out, which hopefully will be soon

[mikechi2]

Thanks!!

As an aside, I did make this: https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6230184962

and it's console side companion: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eznn_pVVgAM ... name=large

You can run audio down the DDC and DDA lines of the VGA port and it works great as a single cable solution... but I think this is too confusing for people. IDK.

[fernan1234]

As an aside, I did make this: https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6230184962

Yep, gonna need one of these! I do have a "VGA" to SCART cable that is sold for use with the MiSTer, but I don't know how good the shielding is, and it's just another potential source of noise/failure.

And I imagine that most people with DB15 setups are used to routing their audio separately. In my case, each RGBS (and YPbPr) source audio goes into Extron VGA Ars auto switcher, and its audio output goes into amp/stereo system.

[vol.2]

You can run audio down the DDC and DDA lines of the VGA port and it works great as a single cable solution... but I think this is too confusing for people. IDK.

I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I think it's a great idea, and it can only work if there is some standardization around it. If you and others, like BuckoA51 from VGP, talk and get behind a solution for DE-15 signal path, it might be possible to make it a thing. You could be like the retro-gaming IEEE or something.

I think you'd have to figure out how people of various configurations are going to integrate it and make sure the solution makes sense. It might be, for example, necessary to have some audio extractor dongle or something available, or breakout cables to BNC plus RCA for audio. That kind of thing.

Or not. Maybe it's totally crazy, IDK. All I can say is I'm tired of scart on things, and I don't want to invest in a bunch of expensive scart switching stuff.

[mikechi2]

For sure, I think the form-factor is much more attractive than SCART and high quality VGA cabling is easy to get. It's a cool solution but then you think of making sure failure modes (i.e. people plugging into normal VGA gear) and it becomes confusing really fast. For this to work, there need to be a huge effort at creating a new standard, educating people and gaining critical mass in having a viable ecosystem.

[maxtherabbit]

Thanks!!

As an aside, I did make this: https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6230184962

and it's console side companion: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eznn_pVVgAM ... name=large

You can run audio down the DDC and DDA lines of the VGA port and it works great as a single cable solution... but I think this is too confusing for people. IDK.

I don't particularly care for this idea. Sounds like a good way to couple 60Hz and 15kHz noise into your audio. Even high end VGA cables don't shield the sync or the DDC

[fernan1234]

Yeah, I wouldn't get too hung up on getting audio in through the same cable. Even for people who don't have external audio solutions or for whatever reason want to feed the audio into the RT5X, there's the two RCA jacks for that. Again, DB15 users are well accustomed to routing audio separately.

We just need the access point! It's kinda sad how there's literally no simple dongle/adapter to go VGA-SCART (there are SCART-VGA ones, but those won't work thanks to the unidirectional nature of SCART, gotta love it). There are cables but shielding on those is dubious. There's also the option of paying $50 for a custom coax cable by RA...

[Guspaz]

It's not hard to connect a VGA-to-BNC cable and a BNC-to-SCART cable together, but this does nothing to address the fact that VGA is separate TTL sync and SCART requires 75ohm combined sync.

[evil_ash_xero]

So, rather than the "smoothing" filter, this has proper Bilinear Sharp and Bilinear filters? Any pics or vids of this anywhere? Any lag introduced with these on?
And any reason to turn on triple buffering? I see there is more lag with that on.

[vol.2]

It's not hard to connect a VGA-to-BNC cable and a BNC-to-SCART cable together, but this does nothing to address the fact that VGA is separate TTL sync and SCART requires 75ohm combined sync.

I don't think anyone is trying to magically get H and V out of it. IIRC, combined sync is typically sent over H, regardless of connector, and VGA standardizes the H pin as such (also for composite sync).

https://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15_pinout.shtml

[fernan1234]

It's not hard to connect a VGA-to-BNC cable and a BNC-to-SCART cable together, but this does nothing to address the fact that VGA is separate TTL sync and SCART requires 75ohm combined sync.

More cables, more potential points of failure. There's nothing preventing you from passing RGBS 75ohm via "VGA" connectors They're just pins, just like pins on SCART, but with better design

Looks like vol.2 beat me to it

So, rather than the "smoothing" filter, this has proper Bilinear Sharp and Bilinear filters? Any pics or vids of this anywhere? Any lag introduced with these on?
And any reason to turn on triple buffering? I see there is more lag with that on.

I don't think any of the filter options would have an impact on added lag.

I would be interested in hearing about cases where Mike and other early testers found the need to use triple buffering. I remember reading that the old scan rate change dropout issue was not present even with the framelock mode, but could be wrong.

[mikechi2]

It's not hard to connect a VGA-to-BNC cable and a BNC-to-SCART cable together, but this does nothing to address the fact that VGA is separate TTL sync and SCART requires 75ohm combined sync.

More cables, more potential points of failure. There's nothing preventing you from passing RGBS 75ohm via "VGA" connectors They're just pins, just like pins on SCART, but with better design

Looks like vol.2 beat me to it

So, rather than the "smoothing" filter, this has proper Bilinear Sharp and Bilinear filters? Any pics or vids of this anywhere? Any lag introduced with these on?
And any reason to turn on triple buffering? I see there is more lag with that on.

I don't think any of the filter options would have an impact on added lag.

I would be interested in hearing about cases where Mike and other early testers found the need to use triple buffering. I remember reading that the old scan rate change dropout issue was not present even with the framelock mode, but could be wrong.

Triple buffer is useful for cap cards, which tend to be super picky as well as immunity against 240p/480i sync drops. It adds only ~1 frame of lag, so not a huge deal. For 240p game play, I'd just switch it to Framelock and if it works on your TV (which it almost certainly will), leave it on.

[mikechi2]

It's not hard to connect a VGA-to-BNC cable and a BNC-to-SCART cable together, but this does nothing to address the fact that VGA is separate TTL sync and SCART requires 75ohm combined sync.

I don't think anyone is trying to magically get H and V out of it. IIRC, combined sync is typically sent over H, regardless of connector, and VGA standardizes the H pin as such (also for composite sync).

https://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15_pinout.shtml

Where I got stuck was for all the shit that SHART gets for not adhering to standards, this VGA cable approach is going to have the same problem except worse.

[vol.2]

Where I got stuck was for all the shit that SHART gets for not adhering to standards, this VGA cable approach is going to have the same problem except worse.

Yeah, I saw that weird poll on twitter with RGB SCART V RCA Component. It's like that's only what people know and there is some perception that you have to make a choice, as though the cable is magically guiding what signals you push through it. (let's not get into impedance matching here)

Maybe BNC is really the way to go. At least going from VGA to BNC is easy and common.

For me, it's not a huge deal as I make my own cables anyway. If I don't get a DE-15 option, I'll just create it. I might even rip off your lovingly proffered SHART connector and solder in my own DE-15 jack like some kind of Neanderthal.

[mikechi2]

Where I got stuck was for all the shit that SHART gets for not adhering to standards, this VGA cable approach is going to have the same problem except worse.

Yeah, I saw that weird poll on twitter with RGB SCART V RCA Component. It's like that's only what people know and there is some perception that you have to make a choice, as though the cable is magically guiding what signals you push through it. (let's not get into impedance matching here)

Maybe BNC is really the way to go. At least going from VGA to BNC is easy and common.

For me, it's not a huge deal as I make my own cables anyway. If I don't get a DE-15 option, I'll just create it. I might even rip off your lovingly proffered SHART connector and solder in my own DE-15 jack like some kind of Neanderthal.

LOL, that's epic. But only for you am I willing to say it won't void the warranty.

[vol.2]

[Jefferson]

These CSYNC SCART cables should be fine with the 5X, right?

https://retro-access.com/collections/sc ... -lead-cord

Any idea why the master system and neo geo have issues in particular?

[maxtherabbit]

Yeah, I wouldn't get too hung up on getting audio in through the same cable. Even for people who don't have external audio solutions or for whatever reason want to feed the audio into the RT5X, there's the two RCA jacks for that. Again, DB15 users are well accustomed to routing audio separately.

We just need the access point! It's kinda sad how there's literally no simple dongle/adapter to go VGA-SCART (there are SCART-VGA ones, but those won't work thanks to the unidirectional nature of SCART, gotta love it). There are cables but shielding on those is dubious. There's also the option of paying $50 for a custom coax cable by RA...

I made one, think I posted a render of it earlier in the thread