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 Post subject: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:09 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
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Location: UK
UPDATE 2 - Reviews from Fudoh and Bob

Fudoh's review in this thread

Bob's review on Youtube


UPDATE - New info from Mike Chi:

mikechi2 wrote:
I honestly don't have an official feature list because the firmware keeps evolving due to constant delays in production. Parts have been extremely hard to come by and we've spent months hunting down pieces to finally get the assembly line going. Got nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs and write firmware. So I guess that's good news in a sense, haha.

At this point, I can confirm a motion adaptive deinterlacer, fully compliant CEA-861 style timings (both 60 Hz buffered or frame locked to the console), no loss on resolution change in buffered mode (and sometimes in frame lock too) and a polyphase scaler that can do sharp, non-integer scaling. 1440p is supported via VESA CVT-rb timings but not all TVs take this. 1440p also requires the system to run at 185 MHz, which is beyond the spec of the HDMI chip, although the Cyclone IV achieves timing closure. Hence, the official moniker '5X' and not '6X', since 1440p is not guaranteed. There's also an experimental downscaler that can produce 240p from 480i, 480p and 720p.

Auto-phase selection is available for SNES/TG16 256, PS1 320, NEOGEO 320, N64 320, Saturn 320, Saturn 352 and PS1 384. All you need to do is select the base mode and the FPGA calculates the optimal phase.

Inputs are SHART RGB, SCART Composite video (Pin 21), YPbPr, S-video and composite. SHART RGB and YPbPr supports 480p. YPbPr also supports 720p and 1080i (although those two modes are limited to 422 subsampling, but this device isn't targeted for those use cases). The SHART port might also support 720p and 1080i, but this has not been tested.

No smoothing filter. I could make excuses on how I hated the effect, but implementing that in a custom FPGA design is beyond me atm.




I don't think there's a thread for the upcoming 5x-Pro here yet. It's still in the prototype phase I believe but it looks like it's shaping up to be a great piece of hardware. Voultar's been testing one and sounds rather enthusiastic about it:
Image
Sampling phase seems like it's much easier to get dialled in (automatic?) than the OSSC
Image


Last edited by Gunstar on Sat May 01, 2021 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:34 pm 


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I love my OSSC, but I am super pumped for the automatic timing and phase capabilities that Voultar and Mike have been touting! I would love to just plug in my consoles, turn that thing on and have the perfect output signal!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:35 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 764
This thing is perfect! Except I won't explain why. And you can't buy it yet. /s


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:39 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
This thing is perfect! Except I won't explain why. And you can't buy it yet. /s


I really like Voultar, but I don't know why he's got to be such a prick all of the time. LOL! I'm not sure how you can post about this device and think people aren't going to ask questions. Maybe he should've just not bothered posting the pic. :D


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:51 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 303
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah kindof pointless attentionwhoring from that guy. Pretty lame.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:07 am 


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He's under NDA, what exactly do you want from him?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:50 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 764
TooBeaucoup wrote:
I really like Voultar, but I don't know why he's got to be such a prick all of the time. LOL! I'm not sure how you can post about this device and think people aren't going to ask questions. Maybe he should've just not bothered posting the pic. :D


I assume he's getting a kickback from it then.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:01 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
He's under NDA, what exactly do you want from him?


Mike Chi drew up a legally binding NDA that Voultar entered into an agreement with? Is there a source for this?

That said, if it were the case, why even show anyone that you have it? Seems pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:12 am 


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spmbx wrote:
Yeah kindof pointless attentionwhoring from that guy. Pretty lame.


Oh fuck right off into Oblivion. It's just a teaser for an upcoming product.

TooBeaucoup wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
He's under NDA, what exactly do you want from him?


Mike Chi drew up a legally binding NDA that Voultar entered into an agreement with? Is there a source for this?

That said, if it were the case, why even show anyone that you have it? Seems pointless.


The agreement between Mike and I isn't any of your business, whatsoever.

Jesus, a bunch of sour-assed forum dwellers throwing shade because I didn't go into deep detail for an unreleased product in a Twitter post. Are you 13 years old?

ldeveraux wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
I really like Voultar, but I don't know why he's got to be such a prick all of the time. LOL! I'm not sure how you can post about this device and think people aren't going to ask questions. Maybe he should've just not bothered posting the pic. :D


I assume he's getting a kickback from it then.



I get NOTHING from Mike Chi. He's a friend of mine and I'm trying to help him out. I've been testing this device very intently for the past several months. Jesus Christ. What the fuck is wrong with you people? If that makes me a prick, you can kindly fuck off into the oblivion.
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Last edited by Voultar on Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:16 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 187
Voultar's been kind enough to help me test this -- and other projects. All because he's my friend and genuinely willing to help.

Kickbacks? Get real.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:25 am 


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Not sour at all, just didn't understand why bother showing it and then adding "Don't ask me about it". LOL! Despite me asking why you are the way you are, I'll still be buying one and continuing to follow your work. I know, I know... you don't care if I follow you and I can go fuck my mother.

And you're right, it is absolutely none of our business. I didn't ask for it to be my business. Someone mentioned an NDA and I simply inquired if there was evidence of such a thing since someone else brought it up.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:34 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
Oh why oh why did it have to have a SCART input for RGB?

I mean, I get why of course. I just really really hope there will be an alt version with a D-sub connector instead.

Or perhaps allow the RCA inputs to not only work for YPbPr but also for RGB, which would allow people with non-SHART setups use it more elegantly (simple RCA cables, or RCA adapter for BNC cables, or D-Sub to RCA/BNC cables would all work).
@mikechi2 any chance this may be done for the RT5X?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:40 am 


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So it is plug and play? No need to mess around with any of that complicated sampling and timing things to get a perfect picture?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:41 am 


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Lawfer wrote:
So it is plug and play? No need to mess around with any of that complicated sampling and timing things to get a perfect picture?


I'll only say that it works MAGICALLY well :)
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:50 am 


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Voultar wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
So it is plug and play? No need to mess around with any of that complicated sampling and timing things to get a perfect picture?


I'll only say that it works MAGICALLY well :)


Great to know, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:28 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
Am I right to assume this will have a linex3 mode? I seem to recall seeing that on Twitter somewhere, maybe I was dreaming.

Also interested to know whether the output is VESA Coordinated Video Timing compliant.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm 


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I have zero idea what the fuck it does, but count me in, Im stoked! :mrgreen:

I just want something that can take 240p and line triple it to 720p in a 768p frame (for a 768p TV), using 2 of the 720p lines per game line and the remaining 720p line for a blank (scan) line. The remaining unused 48 pixels would just be black borders. I have no fucking clue, will this be able to do something like that?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:51 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
Josh128 wrote:
I just want something that can take 240p and line triple it to 720p in a 768p frame (for a 768p TV), using 2 of the 720p lines per game line and the remaining 720p line for a blank (scan) line. The remaining unused 48 pixels would just be black borders.


This is EXACTLY what I want.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:34 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 188
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
So Voultar posts this, craps on an open source device that predates it by years, drops an F-bomb on people who make inferences based on the zero info provided and then brings it back to Twitter to say everyone on this forum sucks. That's marketing in the age of Twitter. I think I'll pass on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:09 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
Galgomite wrote:
craps on an open source device that predates it by years


Let's be fair here and clip the hyperbole, it's already kind of out of hand. Saying that one can retire the OSSC because a better solution is available is nowhere near the same as crapping on the OSSC.

This may be more subjective, but I'd say his reaction was rather justified given the wild speculations about motives and "kickbacks". Guy just got early access to a prototype and is excited about it, that's all, really.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:23 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2017
Posts: 203
Looking forward to seeing what this is. It looked like it had S-Video on it, and maybe composite could be sent in the one of the component inputs? It's nice when an upscaler supports those, not everything has an RGB mod, or one that is readily available any more.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:37 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 8
Johnpv wrote:
Looking forward to seeing what this is. It looked like it had S-Video on it, and maybe composite could be sent in the one of the component inputs? It's nice when an upscaler supports those, not everything has an RGB mod, or one that is readily available any more.


I'm sure composite input will be possible, since the current RetroTINK 2X-Pro and Multiformat both have component inputs that can alternately accept composite -- "Inputs: Component, S-video, Composite (shared with the green jack)"
https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-2x-pro
https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/2x-multiformat


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:43 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Galgomite wrote:
craps on an open source device that predates it by years


Let's be fair here and clip the hyperbole, it's already kind of out of hand. Saying that one can retire the OSSC because a better solution is available is nowhere near the same as crapping on the OSSC.

This may be more subjective, but I'd say his reaction was rather justified given the wild speculations about motives and "kickbacks". Guy just got early access to a prototype and is excited about it, that's all, really.


I'd say his reaction to the kickbacks was justified, as there's no evidence to say he's getting kickbacks. My original post saying he's a prick sometimes was more due to the way I see him respond to people on Twitter or YouTube. People can ask an innocent question and he'll, sometimes, give a short snotty-sounding answer. And it's like, damn, I don't think the person asking the question was trying to be annoying or a jerk, but Voultar's responses, sometimes, make it sound like he's either always on the defense or annoyed with people. And I get that there's a lot of assholes online that are coming at him or saying stupid stuff, but even when someone asks something totally normal, he will answer with something hostile sounding. Idk... I still like his personality and work and I don't think he's a bad guy, in the least, I just think he comes off a little brash at times. Maybe that's just him after dealing with people online for so long. It's whatever. At the end of the day, none of us know each other and in 50 years, a majority of us will be dead, so who gives a shit! Lol!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:56 pm 


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Poo gaming


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:25 pm 


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Galgomite wrote:
So Voultar posts this, craps on an open source device that predates it by years, drops an F-bomb on people who make inferences based on the zero info provided and then brings it back to Twitter to say everyone on this forum sucks. That's marketing in the age of Twitter. I think I'll pass on this one.


This is why I am easily annoyed by some of the random people who dwell here.. There are too many stupid people who either want to make shit up to make someone look bad or just be insulting.

I never crapped on the OSSC you Yo-Yo, I praised it.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:02 pm 


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I might be wrong, but I think what is meant by "a living-room experience" is that it is plug 'n play (or at least closer to plug 'n play than the OSSC), the OSSC is a very technical tool and getting the perfect picture requires quite a bit of work and additional hardware and know-how, so it will be out of reach for most people. For example, in a video FirebrandX explains that playing with timings and samplings options that you are presented with the OSSC and it varies between consoles and hardware setup, meaning the settings will vary from person to person, FirebrandX says in the video at 00:25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBStHr4XCTg

FirebrandX wrote:
This will take all the guesswork at trying to find optimal timings for your consoles, I know alot of people complain about, you know "I can't get rid of the flickering pixels" and that's just because you are trying to guess and you can't guess, you know, you have to know what you are doing.


In the video it is mentioned that he is using a checkerboard pattern from a testsuite and a Datapath Vision E1, so that's additional stuff and work to be done to get a perfect picture and you have to do that for each of your consoles, this is not plug and play and it is not something an average joe will have an expertise with.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:31 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2020
Posts: 24
Voultar or Mike, not sure if you can answer, but how is tv compatibility using the NTSC NES and SNES without dejitter?

Of the big brands I've tested with the OSSC, Sony 4k tv's seem to have a hard time with the OSSC + those consoles. Would be cool if someone could test this thing out on a Sony 4k tv and see how it performs. On my Sony X800D I'm currently using, I can get it to hold a picture for around 30-40 seconds in 5x 256x240 optimal then the screen will start flickering for a few seconds then rinse, repeat. None of the other modes work as it just starts flickering right away.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:46 pm 


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TooBeaucoup wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
He's under NDA, what exactly do you want from him?


Mike Chi drew up a legally binding NDA that Voultar entered into an agreement with? Is there a source for this?

That said, if it were the case, why even show anyone that you have it? Seems pointless.


I'm under a legally binding NDA with Mike and I don't even have any prototypes. So, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Mike had some form of NDA with the prototype, be it a legally binding one or an informal "Don't talk too much about it" one. Doesn't really matter, I think it's silly to attack Voultar for not wanting to share information about somebody else's prototype.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:10 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 764
I don't care what anyone's done for the community, this kind of behavior is completely inappropriate. You made a post with dubious comments and didn't expect flack for that? We don't accept that immaturity from Kevtris, we don't accept it from our kids, I won't accept it from a theoretically grown man with a chip on his shoulder and a penchant to defend himself at the slightest negativity. I'm sorry you had to be the one to share this with us because you're doing the opposite of what you intended. You've certainly turned me off of it; others too judging by the comments.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:13 pm 


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Image

Can anyone tell if it looks like the RetroTINK-5X Pro has HDMI input?


Last edited by Lawfer on Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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