RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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jsteel
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by jsteel »

My query is just about this judder with any TV. I'm wondering if people find this a noticeable problem. For it to be mentioned in the manual, I wonder how common and noticeable this might be (maybe different types of games are affected more/less?). If a smooth side-scrolling game judders occasionally, I would find that terribly distracting. If you haven't noticed it, thanks for your feedback.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Any time you have a mismatch between the input and output framerates, you need to either duplicate or drop frames to compensate for the difference. How often this happens depends on how mismatched the input/output framerates are. 60.1Hz in and 60Hz out? It needs to drop a frame every 10 seconds. 59.9 Hz in and 60 Hz out? It needs to double a frame every 10 seconds. The judders are a single frame long (so 16.7ms).

If your display is compatible with the input framerate, and your console does not change resolutions/framerates mid-game (IE no 24p/480i switches), then you can run the RT5X in frame lock mode, and there is no judder. There is also an intermediate mode (gen lock) that has no judder and better compatibility than frame lock, but not as good compatibility as fully buffered. I'm not sure how it behaves for resolution changes or latency.
H6rdc0re
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by H6rdc0re »

For people in Europe wanting a RetroTink 5x-Pro without paying a lot of import taxes. Videogameperfection has about 90 units still in stock. Go get one!
jsteel
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by jsteel »

Guspaz wrote:How often this happens depends on how mismatched the input/output framerates are. 60.1Hz in and 60Hz out? It needs to drop a frame every 10 seconds. 59.9 Hz in and 60 Hz out? It needs to double a frame every 10 seconds. The judders are a single frame long (so 16.7ms).
This is what I am wondering, if it judders every 10 seconds for example, how jarring is that experience in your opinion? I've watched various reviews of this and I've not heard about this potential "issue" until reading the online manual.
Guspaz wrote:There is also an intermediate mode (gen lock) that has no judder and better compatibility than frame lock, but not as good compatibility as fully buffered. I'm not sure how it behaves for resolution changes or latency.
Thanks I didn't know there was a third option. That gives me some peace of mind that if frame lock doesn't work, there's something else to try if the juddering is annoying.
SuperSpongo
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by SuperSpongo »

H6rdc0re wrote:For people in Europe wanting a RetroTink 5x-Pro without paying a lot of import taxes. Videogameperfection
Aren't they located in the UK? Not in Europe anymore, unfortunately.
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

SuperSpongo wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:For people in Europe wanting a RetroTink 5x-Pro without paying a lot of import taxes. Videogameperfection
Aren't they located in the UK? Not in Europe anymore, unfortunately.
VGP is based in Ireland now after Brexit happened.
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SuperSpongo
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by SuperSpongo »

Oh, that's awesome! Did not know that. Smart move :)
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

jsteel wrote:I don't have a RetroTINK 5x (yet) but I was just reading the RetroTINK 5x manual and it says that the triple buffer can cause "occasional judder due to the need to repeat/drop frames". I wonder how noticeable this judder is; if I play a side-scroller for example, am I going to notice anything and how often might it judder? Is anyone able to comment on their experience with this?

Thanks
First, triple-buffer is virtually pointless as framelock works 99% of the time for anything Ive tried it on thus far. Second, I've not seen any judder in any games using either FL or TB and I am hyper-sensitive to such things. Perfectly smooth scrolling games like Final Fantasy 2 (4) or Super Ghouls N Ghosts look no differently than they do in terms of smoothness or hiccups than they do straight from the console.
fernan1234
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

I think this may have been discussed many pages ago, but does the 5X have any output modes that display a 4:3 picture nested in a black 16:9 frame for displays that don't have aspect ratio settings and would otherwise display pictures widescreen stretched?

I know we can use the scaler to adjust H size, but I don't know if this could cause horizontal scrolling artifacts due to uneven scaling (maybe not in generic mode?).
copy
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by copy »

Josh128 wrote:First, triple-buffer is virtually pointless as framelock works 99% of the time for anything Ive tried it on thus far.
Not pointless for people who have a display that chokes on NES/SNES jitter. Frame lock will be useless for them, so they will have to use triple buffer (or maybe gen lock).
fernan1234 wrote:I think this may have been discussed many pages ago, but does the 5X have any output modes that display a 4:3 picture nested in a black 16:9 frame for displays that don't have aspect ratio settings and would otherwise display pictures widescreen stretched?
Yes, that's the default behavior. The 4:3 image is "pillarboxed" in the 16:9 output frame.
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Odolwa
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Odolwa »

How come I can never adjust the settings in the Standard Definition Decoder section? It's <N/A> for everything.
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Odolwa wrote:How come I can never adjust the settings in the Standard Definition Decoder section? It's <N/A> for everything.
"Decoder" makes it sound like that's just for composite video settings, like changing the type of comb filter used.
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Odolwa
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Odolwa »

The settings listed are:
Brightness
Chroma
Phase
Contrast
Y/C filter
Aperture
CTIE
Black Level

Are we able to change at least some of these like Brightness or Contrast somewhere else if we don't use composite video? Would similar settings fall under different names, like instead of Brightness it's Gama?
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

Thanks for adding the VRR option, Mike. I had returned a panel a while back that gave me issues. It's possible that VRR would have saved the day. My goodness, the Tink has become quite a robust scaler. :-)
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Fudoh
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Fudoh »

VRR is a great use case for a retro scaler. I'm wondering if the implementation covers the full rage of signals, so even PAL/NTSC switches are coverered an no longer require a change of the output signal. Weird ass PCBs like Irem (55Hz) or Seibu (54Hz) should be covered.

Now, if the TV manufacturers could please get their game together and give us a useable BFI solution with activated VRR.
fernan1234
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

It's so niche, I think they never will, at least not intentionally. If we're lucky some random model for a monitor or TV will come out where they simply left BFI simply mirroring the refresh rate. I suspect it won't be from any of the big names if it even happens though.
PearlJammzz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by PearlJammzz »

Fudoh wrote:VRR is a great use case for a retro scaler. I'm wondering if the implementation covers the full rage of signals, so even PAL/NTSC switches are coverered an no longer require a change of the output signal. Weird ass PCBs like Irem (55Hz) or Seibu (54Hz) should be covered.

Now, if the TV manufacturers could please get their game together and give us a useable BFI solution with activated VRR.
Couldn't the BFI be put into the scalers software? Obviously we'd need to be able to output 120hz but couldn't we have a scaler that inserted a black frame and double the output rate? I don't expect any reasonably priced scaler to be able to do this anytime soon.

Without BFI/VRR combo put into some defined spec I have low hopes that a panel manufacturer would put it into a product. I suppose if we push really hard for it through social media and industry contacts we may be able to get traction but it's pretty niche to garner much support. Maybe we need to just convince one rogue engineer?
fernan1234
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

Yeah, a community-driven retro scaler is the only option we have really. IIRC the OSSC Pro will have BFI, though I don't know if that'll only be for the standard refresh rates.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

I wonder how the VRR will handle the various Toaplan boards with the triple buffer disabled. I know that some of those are kind of... yeah. Only one way to find out, I guess.
Vigilante
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Vigilante »

So silly question. I have not yet bought any GCC solutions. Would I get a better result from this? Or better from the Prism?

I am still getting one for other systems, but this is more a matter of if I need both or not.
Espressomatic
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Espressomatic »

copy wrote: Yes, that's the default behavior. The 4:3 image is "pillarboxed" in the 16:9 output frame.
Do you (anyone) happen to know if it can also do letterbox on taller (5:4) displays?
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kitty666cats
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by kitty666cats »

If you get the Prism you could always chain it to the RT5X with a $20 HDMI to component if you aren’t satisfied with the 480p displayed from the Prism alone!
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

PearlJammzz wrote:
Fudoh wrote:VRR is a great use case for a retro scaler. I'm wondering if the implementation covers the full rage of signals, so even PAL/NTSC switches are coverered an no longer require a change of the output signal. Weird ass PCBs like Irem (55Hz) or Seibu (54Hz) should be covered.

Now, if the TV manufacturers could please get their game together and give us a useable BFI solution with activated VRR.
Couldn't the BFI be put into the scalers software? Obviously we'd need to be able to output 120hz but couldn't we have a scaler that inserted a black frame and double the output rate? I don't expect any reasonably priced scaler to be able to do this anytime soon.

Without BFI/VRR combo put into some defined spec I have low hopes that a panel manufacturer would put it into a product. I suppose if we push really hard for it through social media and industry contacts we may be able to get traction but it's pretty niche to garner much support. Maybe we need to just convince one rogue engineer?
The flickering is pretty obnoxious. I think Retroarch still has the insert black frames option. If not, you could grab an old version and try it. Would probably need more than 120Hz refresh.
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LDigital
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by LDigital »

So I have had my unit about a week now and have enjoyed putting it through It’s paces

There seems to be some bugs in the firmware though (I am running the latest 2.77)

The issue I am having is that when booting on to profile 1 it does not output hdr 10 correctly until I go to the hdmi menu, then it suddenly remembers the settings and switches on the hdr10. Until I do this the colours are all washed out and it’s definitely not hdr. All my other settings seem to be there from the off but it always seems to need a reminder for hdr. I have also found occasionally that I will suddenly loose hdr while playing and have to go to the hdr page again to re-remind it

Tv is lg c2 48
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vol.2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

LDigital wrote:So I have had my unit about a week now and have enjoyed putting it through It’s paces

There seems to be some bugs in the firmware though (I am running the latest 2.77)

The issue I am having is that when booting on to profile 1 it does not output hdr 10 correctly until I go to the hdmi menu, then it suddenly remembers the settings and switches on the hdr10. Until I do this the colours are all washed out and it’s definitely not hdr. All my other settings seem to be there from the off but it always seems to need a reminder for hdr. I have also found occasionally that I will suddenly loose hdr while playing and have to go to the hdr page again to re-remind it

Tv is lg c2 48
There was a firmware update that I believe was intended to fix this bug. https://www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-5x-a ... pport.html

read at the bottom there point #3 to the firware update 2.75

If this isn't what you're talking about "Fixed bug where HDR does not get reapplied if HDM" then you might consider documenting the conditions and sending Mike an email by replying to your order confirmation email.

I understand this is a brand new feature, so my assumption is that it might take a little time for all the various issues to get worked out since there are so many devices out there.
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LDigital
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by LDigital »

Good idea. I have fired an email over to mike
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vol.2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

LDigital wrote:Good idea. I have fired an email over to mike
So the firmware is the latest, but it's still doing that?
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LDigital
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by LDigital »

vol.2 wrote:
LDigital wrote:Good idea. I have fired an email over to mike
So the firmware is the latest, but it's still doing that?

Yes 2.77
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marus
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by marus »

This is a year late, but for anyone who used my previous remote overlay, I finally got around to updating it for the new v2.00 menu.

New download link
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Fudoh wrote:VRR is a great use case for a retro scaler. I'm wondering if the implementation covers the full rage of signals, so even PAL/NTSC switches are coverered an no longer require a change of the output signal. Weird ass PCBs like Irem (55Hz) or Seibu (54Hz) should be covered.
Has anybody tested this yet? Also I’m very curious if VRR can solve the stutter issues with the off spec refresh of modded consoles. I wonder if the newish gen lock setting would also help. I have a launch RT5X so I’m missing that feature unfortunately.
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