Greg2600 wrote:Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
The best cables for Dreamcast both use RGBS now, which can end in a SCART connector. Retro-Access and Retrogamingcables.co.uk have them. Retro-Access even has the sync correction inside it so the top isn't skewed/flagging if you use it on a BVM (we used to have to route the signal through an Extron RGB box with SERR turned on to fix that before on some monitors).
Otherwise you would be using a horrible Beharbros product, or a straight VGA/DB15 cable which many times doesn't have the switch for the 240p games and you won't be able to play those.
Greg2600 wrote:Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
The best cables for Dreamcast both use RGBS now, which can end in a SCART connector. Retro-Access and Retrogamingcables.co.uk have them. Retro-Access even has the sync correction inside it so the top isn't skewed/flagging if you use it on a BVM (we used to have to route the signal through an Extron RGB box with SERR turned on to fix that before on some monitors).
Otherwise you would be using a horrible Beharbros product, or a straight VGA/DB15 cable which many times doesn't have the switch for the 240p games and you won't be able to play those.
What's wrong with the beharbros products? I just bought a Kuro plus and I find it to be quite good.
Greg2600 wrote:Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
The best cables for Dreamcast both use RGBS now, which can end in a SCART connector. Retro-Access and Retrogamingcables.co.uk have them. Retro-Access even has the sync correction inside it so the top isn't skewed/flagging if you use it on a BVM (we used to have to route the signal through an Extron RGB box with SERR turned on to fix that before on some monitors).
Otherwise you would be using a horrible Beharbros product, or a straight VGA/DB15 cable which many times doesn't have the switch for the 240p games and you won't be able to play those.
What's wrong with the beharbros products? I just bought a Kuro plus and I find it to be quite good.
Same. Some of their earlier products I ordered didn't have the best soldering, but I easily fixed that myself, other than that, they worked great. My Toro works great and I bought an Akura for the hell of it and it works nicely for what it is.
Greg2600 wrote:Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
The best cables for Dreamcast both use RGBS now, which can end in a SCART connector. Retro-Access and Retrogamingcables.co.uk have them. Retro-Access even has the sync correction inside it so the top isn't skewed/flagging if you use it on a BVM (we used to have to route the signal through an Extron RGB box with SERR turned on to fix that before on some monitors).
Otherwise you would be using a horrible Beharbros product, or a straight VGA/DB15 cable which many times doesn't have the switch for the 240p games and you won't be able to play those.
What's wrong with the beharbros products? I just bought a Kuro plus and I find it to be quite good.
Their modular-not-modular cables fall out of the unit just by looking at it.
Greg2600 wrote:Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
The best cables for Dreamcast both use RGBS now, which can end in a SCART connector. Retro-Access and Retrogamingcables.co.uk have them. Retro-Access even has the sync correction inside it so the top isn't skewed/flagging if you use it on a BVM (we used to have to route the signal through an Extron RGB box with SERR turned on to fix that before on some monitors).
Otherwise you would be using a horrible Beharbros product, or a straight VGA/DB15 cable which many times doesn't have the switch for the 240p games and you won't be able to play those.
What's wrong with the beharbros products? I just bought a Kuro plus and I find it to be quite good.
They're incompetently designed. The GARO doesn't even follow the datasheet for the chip they used, directly driving the output without buffering it, despite the chip saying explicitly not to do that. Which is why an RGB bypass mod is required for the GARO to even work properly. They also don't correctly combine the sync for the SCART output. When they were called out about this, they responded by removing the SCART socket from the board (the empty vias are still there).
Guspaz wrote:
They're incompetently designed. The GARO doesn't even follow the datasheet for the chip they used, directly driving the output without buffering it, despite the chip saying explicitly not to do that. Which is why an RGB bypass mod is required for the GARO to even work properly. They also don't correctly combine the sync for the SCART output. When they were called out about this, they responded by removing the SCART socket from the board (the empty vias are still there).
while this is all true, none of it is exactly relevant to the simpler VGA boxes they make
that being said, even those are lacking in build quality
Guspaz wrote:
They're incompetently designed. The GARO doesn't even follow the datasheet for the chip they used, directly driving the output without buffering it, despite the chip saying explicitly not to do that. Which is why an RGB bypass mod is required for the GARO to even work properly. They also don't correctly combine the sync for the SCART output. When they were called out about this, they responded by removing the SCART socket from the board (the empty vias are still there).
while this is all true, none of it is exactly relevant to the simpler VGA boxes they make
that being said, even those are lacking in build quality
DEFINITELY lacking in build quality. 2x Toro VGA boxes and they're complete garbage. Had to merge sync with my Extron RGB as the Toros's are defective in that regard and have dirt and drop-out issues. Behar themselves are also useless – I did extensive tests, on like 3-4x different Dreamcasts, on 6-10 monitors (mostly BVM's and some PVM's), and presented my issues to them and they keep on telling me that ALL my consoles and ALL my monitors are defective and not their products!
maxtherabbit wrote:while this is all true, none of it is exactly relevant to the simpler VGA boxes they make
It's relevant in that it tells you about the probably design quality of their other products. And as Dochartaigh said, the TORO inherits some of the same problems as the GARO, in that they clearly have no idea how to properly combine sync for RGBS outputs. There's no reason to buy something like the TORO when both RetroAccess and RetroGamingCables make 480i/480p SCART cables for it, and the HD Retrovision component cables are coming soon. There are a ton of high quality options that don't have bad designs like TORO.
Yeah the SCART solutions for DC seem quite nice already and the HDRV on the horizon. I can’t think of another console that needs VGA. The video ADC and pipeline isn’t suited for those types of signals without some gymnastics anyways.
neorichieb1971 wrote:Any videos of this unit doing 720p with scanlines on 240p content?
I think OG XBOX can maybe do it, might need custom firmware. Can't remember, been awhile.
Xbox 360 is definitely beyond the intended target of the device, haha. And I think Xbox only natively supports higher resolutions over component. Sourcing a good cable, is another challenge but Jan’s wii adaptor is a lifesaver.
I, too, am all about the idea of DE15 becoming the “agreed-upon” RGB connector - but people on Shmups lately will NOT stop saying so, CONSTANTLY! Hehe. Mannn... someone needs to step up this year and finally mass produce some of the aforementioned dang cables for the lazy/incompetent/essential tremor (I am all 3, or at least former and latter lol) crowds
That being said, SCART-hate is also quite overblown here. It’s not THAT bad, but def lots of room for error/wires and connectors coming loose + lots of cheapo quality NOS connectors abound :/
kitty666cats wrote:I, too, am all about the idea of DE15 becoming the “agreed-upon” RGB connector - but people on Shmups lately will NOT stop saying so, CONSTANTLY! Hehe. Mannn... someone needs to step up this year and finally mass produce some of the aforementioned dang cables for the lazy/incompetent/essential tremor (I am all 3, or at least former and latter lol) crowds
That being said, SCART-hate is also quite overblown here. It’s not THAT bad, but def lots of room for error/wires and connectors coming loose + lots of cheapo quality NOS connectors abound :/
I said this else where too, but most of the (good natured, imo) SHART ribbing is really in response to the "we had RGB SHART in Europe since the 90s, etc. etc." When, com'on guys, you know it was wired for composite. That and all the various permutations of off-spec sync and video levels makes developing products that accommodate it a headache.
The fact that it gave audio+video in one plug is nice and amazing that we wouldn't see another standard do that until the HDMI era.
mikechi2 wrote:
I said this else where too, but most of the (good natured, imo) SHART ribbing is really in response to the "we had RGB SHART in Europe since the 90s, etc. etc." When, com'on guys, you know it was wired for composite.
All official Sega, Nintendo and Sony cables were wired in RGB, it seems you don't know what you're talking about....
I wouldn't normally do this, but I posted a question on Tuesday and since I'm a new member and our moderators have lives, it sat in the approve queue a bit. So I'm reposting it so it's not hidden four pages back.
Out of curiosity, will it have a Playstation Portable specific mode?
Due to the lack of upscaling capabilities, the PSP's native component tv output results in the game display being heavily windowed on a television. Worse than that since many HDTV's can zoom in is that the aspect ratio also is very noticeably messed up (As I vaguely recall, it's due to the PSP's pixel proportions being different than a television's).
Past the usual basic adjustments like setting the tv to display a SD source in 4:3 or stretched, many tv's don't allow for fine adjustments to the aspect ratio. And many more don't let you do anything if the source it's receiving is HD. Would be very handy for PSP gaming if this could both zoom in and correct the aspect ratio.
Atariboy wrote:I wouldn't normally do this, but I posted a question on Tuesday and since I'm a new member and our moderators have lives, it sat in the approve queue a bit. So I'm reposting it so it's not hidden four pages back.
Out of curiosity, will it have a Playstation Portable specific mode?
Due to the lack of upscaling capabilities, the PSP's native component tv output results in the game display being heavily windowed on a television. Worse than that since many HDTV's can zoom in is that the aspect ratio also is very noticeably messed up (As I vaguely recall, it's due to the PSP's pixel proportions being different than a television's).
Past the usual basic adjustments like setting the tv to display a SD source in 4:3 or stretched, many tv's don't allow for fine adjustments to the aspect ratio. And many more don't let you do anything if the source it's receiving is HD. Would be very handy for PSP gaming if this could both zoom in and correct the aspect ratio.
Yeah there's a PSP mode that can stretch it to the full screen. I don't think it will be in the release firmware -- need to figure out a clean way to integrate it into the menu.
mikechi2 wrote:
I said this else where too, but most of the (good natured, imo) SHART ribbing is really in response to the "we had RGB SHART in Europe since the 90s, etc. etc." When, com'on guys, you know it was wired for composite.
All official Sega, Nintendo and Sony cables were wired in RGB, it seems you don't know what you're talking about....
mikechi2 wrote:
I said this else where too, but most of the (good natured, imo) SHART ribbing is really in response to the "we had RGB SHART in Europe since the 90s, etc. etc." When, com'on guys, you know it was wired for composite.
All official Sega, Nintendo and Sony cables were wired in RGB, it seems you don't know what you're talking about....
Awesome, you had RGB since the 90s.
more like, since the 80s.
SMS was RGB and also some 8bit computers also had RGB output.
The world is more than HERE BE DRAGONS you know...
Ryoandr wrote:
more like, since the 80s.
SMS was RGB and also some 8bit computers also had RGB output.
The world is more than HERE BE DRAGONS you know...
Thanks Mike, I'm glad to hear you're planning on including a PSP mode.
Sounds like this will have just about every bell and whistle that I'd need. Only thing missing is the ability to route something like the GameCube with a HDMI dongle through this to avoid bothering with the HDTV itself handling the scaling, but you've explained already that a HDMI input would raise the cost significantly.
I can live without that in exchange for a more affordable upscaler tailored specifically for my analog-out consoles.
Ryoandr wrote:All official Sega, Nintendo and Sony cables were wired in RGB, it seems you don't know what you're talking about....
I was just reading a thread on Reddit where UK PAL console owners were complaining about their childhood Nintendo consoles coming with composite-only SCART cables, so...
Considering that console manufacturers kept shipping their consoles with nothing but composite cables in North America even as they were including component and even HDMI support, I find it hard to believe (particularly with people in PAL territories directly disputing your claims) that those PAL consoles all shipped with RGB out of the box. Maybe some of them did, but clearly a lot did not.
Keep in mind we're talking about the pack-in cables, not the additional cables sold separately.
That and all the various permutations of off-spec sync and video levels makes developing products that accommodate it a headache.