RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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jd213
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by jd213 »

CRT Emudriver would probably be better than downscaling for retro-style games available on PC: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... msg1706892
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

orange808 wrote:
Jose1980 wrote:
Josh128 wrote:Im a bit confused. What exactly are you trying to downscale to 240p?
Nintendo switch and PC and PS4 on ps4 I have battle garegga and ketzui I want to play on pvm
I want to play shmup games and side scroller beat'em up on my pvm at 240p. I saw it in my life I'm gaming and want to duplicate it.
Hi Jose,

Don't let people question your preferences or use case, here. Lots of us understand what you want and why you like it.
Excuse me? I was not questioning why he wanted to do it, I was asking exactly WHAT he was trying to do. :roll:

Also, count me in as one of the Portta HDMI>Component DAC proponents. Have had really good results from them.
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Jose1980
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Jose1980 »

jd213 wrote:CRT Emudriver would probably be better than downscaling for retro-style games available on PC: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... msg1706892
Thank you for that link I'm definitely going to look into it. I have so much to learn, but it's fun.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

I finally got around to playing with the new firmware. The menu is nice but there are so many options now. I'm mostly interested in the scanline/grill options as I'd like to make my games look like they're running on a Sony Trintron. I played with the presets but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Which modes are everyone's favorites for early consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS, etc.? I'm also looking for something that might help hide my cheap TVs issue with the blacks dimming as the screen scrolls. Some of the heavier scanline settings seemed to help.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

Tempest_2084 wrote:I finally got around to playing with the new firmware. The menu is nice but there are so many options now. I'm mostly interested in the scanline/grill options as I'd like to make my games look like they're running on a Sony Trintron. I played with the presets but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Which modes are everyone's favorites for early consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS, etc.? I'm also looking for something that might help hide my cheap TVs issue with the blacks dimming as the screen scrolls. Some of the heavier scanline settings seemed to help.
FV310 is a Trinitron, but I find the preset washes out the colors a bit too much, so I tried the FV310 preset but changed the brightness to -1 and the color boost to +4 and it looks pretty similar to my Trinitron if I was to put my face right next to it, as I can't see the scanlines on my Trinitron at all unless my face is almost touching it.
hypotc
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by hypotc »

Anyone else miss being able to adjust vertical position in 1080p (Over) using the up/down buttons on the remote? Hopefully it gets added back.
jamisonia
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by jamisonia »

Steven wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:I finally got around to playing with the new firmware. The menu is nice but there are so many options now. I'm mostly interested in the scanline/grill options as I'd like to make my games look like they're running on a Sony Trintron. I played with the presets but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Which modes are everyone's favorites for early consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS, etc.? I'm also looking for something that might help hide my cheap TVs issue with the blacks dimming as the screen scrolls. Some of the heavier scanline settings seemed to help.
FV310 is a Trinitron, but I find the preset washes out the colors a bit too much, so I tried the FV310 preset but changed the brightness to -1 and the color boost to +4 and it looks pretty similar to my Trinitron if I was to put my face right next to it, as I can't see the scanlines on my Trinitron at all unless my face is almost touching it.
I used to own an FV310 so this is my favorite scanline mode. Using 240p test suite, checking the colors on the pluge pattern, using the Tinks built in blue color filter; I needed to adjust color boost to +4 to make the colors correct on the pluge. So if you found that looks right too, we might be on to something.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

jamisonia wrote:
Steven wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:I finally got around to playing with the new firmware. The menu is nice but there are so many options now. I'm mostly interested in the scanline/grill options as I'd like to make my games look like they're running on a Sony Trintron. I played with the presets but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Which modes are everyone's favorites for early consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS, etc.? I'm also looking for something that might help hide my cheap TVs issue with the blacks dimming as the screen scrolls. Some of the heavier scanline settings seemed to help.
FV310 is a Trinitron, but I find the preset washes out the colors a bit too much, so I tried the FV310 preset but changed the brightness to -1 and the color boost to +4 and it looks pretty similar to my Trinitron if I was to put my face right next to it, as I can't see the scanlines on my Trinitron at all unless my face is almost touching it.
I used to own an FV310 so this is my favorite scanline mode. Using 240p test suite, checking the colors on the pluge pattern, using the Tinks built in blue color filter; I needed to adjust color boost to +4 to make the colors correct on the pluge. So if you found that looks right too, we might be on to something.
Interesting that we both arrived at color boost at +4, although I just kind of compared the colors to how they look without any of the scanlines and tried to make it similar. What did you put the gamma boost at? I think -1 looks the best from what I have seen.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

hypotc wrote:Anyone else miss being able to adjust vertical position in 1080p (Over) using the up/down buttons on the remote? Hopefully it gets added back.
I mean, you can still do it, but yeah, kind of annoying that you have to go into the menu first. I'm not totally sure why he set it up this way now, but certainly not a deal breaker. Just takes an extra step.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

There are other plans for the up/down button, so using them for vertical adjustment won't be returning.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Steven wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:I finally got around to playing with the new firmware. The menu is nice but there are so many options now. I'm mostly interested in the scanline/grill options as I'd like to make my games look like they're running on a Sony Trintron. I played with the presets but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Which modes are everyone's favorites for early consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS, etc.? I'm also looking for something that might help hide my cheap TVs issue with the blacks dimming as the screen scrolls. Some of the heavier scanline settings seemed to help.
FV310 is a Trinitron, but I find the preset washes out the colors a bit too much, so I tried the FV310 preset but changed the brightness to -1 and the color boost to +4 and it looks pretty similar to my Trinitron if I was to put my face right next to it, as I can't see the scanlines on my Trinitron at all unless my face is almost touching it.
I ended up using the FV310 setting but tweaked it a bit. I turned off the mask effect because none of them looked right to me. Without the mask effect and tweaking the color/brightness I can get it to look pretty close to my Trinitron. It has the hint of scanlines but doesn't have those 1cm gaps (huge scalines look good in still pictures but trying to play a game with them annoys me). I was only able to test it with the NES, so I'm sure I'll have to tweak it for other systems. Unfortunately it didn't help that 'blacks dim when the game scrolls' issue but thats my TV, not the 5X. The only way to hide that is to dim the screen and add heavy scanlines, which maybe I'll do in the future.

Interestingly that issue helped me notice something about the original Metroid (the game I was using for testing) that I never saw before. The game 'stutters' now and then when scrolling. At first I thought maybe it was something weird with the sync on the 5X but it does that on my CRT as well. I only noticed because I was looking at the blacks dim while running around and every now and then they'd suddenly brighten up like I had stopped even though I hadn't. Just a limitation of the game I guess.
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Strider77
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Strider77 »

I asked before but never got an answer. So I figured I'd try again, there is no way to apply 240p scanlines to 480p content? Is the correct?

The Dreamcast in particular is where this would come in handy.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

--Duplicated Removed--
Last edited by mikechi2 on Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Strider77 wrote:I asked before but never got an answer. So I figured I'd try again, there is no way to apply 240p scanlines to 480p content? Is the correct?

The Dreamcast in particular is where this would come in handy.
https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 5103382530
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awe444
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by awe444 »

mikechi2 wrote:
Strider77 wrote:I asked before but never got an answer. So I figured I'd try again, there is no way to apply 240p scanlines to 480p content? Is the correct?

The Dreamcast in particular is where this would come in handy.
https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 5103382530
Amazing!! Was just talking about the merits of a feature like this last week in the Morph thread. Interested in using this to try out LCD grid on DS virtual console games output by the WiiU in 720p.

Thanks Mike for the continued updates!
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Strider77
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Strider77 »

mikechi2 wrote:
Strider77 wrote:I asked before but never got an answer. So I figured I'd try again, there is no way to apply 240p scanlines to 480p content? Is the correct?

The Dreamcast in particular is where this would come in handy.
https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 5103382530
That's great, is there any added lag while using that? If so how much?
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
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incrediblehark
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by incrediblehark »

Just wanted to say I finally had a chance to test out the new firmware and so far I'm really enjoying it! I had to blind set 480p for my xbr800, but otherwise the menu system is excellent. I like that its centered so I don't lose any from overscan, and while I don't have a lot of experience with all of the tweaks I can do now, in just a little bit of time I was able to get my Dreamcast working with 480p and 480i (thanks!) and after adjusting some settings even my Neo Geo AES is working with a pretty stable picture, only in frame buffered mode, but was otherwise impossible on the old fw. Basically all of my issues have been resolved and its going back to being my main scaler. Only thing I'm missing from my OSSC now is the reverse LPF for my Super Famicom.

Also, to anyone looking to use a regular power supply, I got one suitable for a raspberry pi:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MA ... UTF8&psc=1

Probably been discussed before but I read some comments back about PSUs and figured I'd chime in on what I'm using.

Thanks again Mike for all of the work you put into this, and I know its only going to get better from here!
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Strider77
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Strider77 »

This new firmware addition is great, the last little thing from my old set up isn't missing now.

DC stuff like Puzzle Fighter, Mark of the Wolves, Giga Wing etc look great with 240p scanlines on this thing.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
ZellSF
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by ZellSF »

I've ordered one of these and need to know two things to plan my setup:

1) Which modes/options add input lag, and how much? More specifically I'm interested in how much proper deinterlacing + full scaling will add to consider if I want an alternative setup for my PS2.

2) Is the HDMI connection "active" while the unit is off? Will it play nice with automatic HDMI switchers?
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

ZellSF wrote:I've ordered one of these and need to know two things to plan my setup:

1) Which modes/options add input lag, and how much? More specifically I'm interested in how much proper deinterlacing + full scaling will add to consider if I want an alternative setup for my PS2.

2) Is the HDMI connection "active" while the unit is off? Will it play nice with automatic HDMI switchers?
Latency: ~0.25 frames in Framelock, 0.25 to 1.25 frames in triple buffering.

Honestly, I can't notice any lag even in triple buffer. It's pretty amazing. I have my Super Nintendo running upscaled to 1200p with PVM scanlines and in triple buffer. Of course, if you're a speedrunner who has put in 10,000 hours on the same game, you might notice a difference in triple buffer. I sure can't.

Someone else will have to chime in on the auto switcher.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Is there a way to name the preset slots? I have trouble remember which slot is for which system sometimes.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Is there a way to name the preset slots? I have trouble remember which slot is for which system sometimes.
Not yet, however, I asked Mike about this last week and he said it can be implemented, it's just a matter of finding time to get it done as it's more involved than some of the other tweaks. For now, I just grabbed a sheet of paper and wrote which slots were which.
ZellSF
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by ZellSF »

TooBeaucoup wrote:
ZellSF wrote:I've ordered one of these and need to know two things to plan my setup:

1) Which modes/options add input lag, and how much? More specifically I'm interested in how much proper deinterlacing + full scaling will add to consider if I want an alternative setup for my PS2.

2) Is the HDMI connection "active" while the unit is off? Will it play nice with automatic HDMI switchers?
Latency: ~0.25 frames in Framelock, 0.25 to 1.25 frames in triple buffering.

Honestly, I can't notice any lag even in triple buffer. It's pretty amazing. I have my Super Nintendo running upscaled to 1200p with PVM scanlines and in triple buffer. Of course, if you're a speedrunner who has put in 10,000 hours on the same game, you might notice a difference in triple buffer. I sure can't.
But does deinterlacing and/or upscaling require triple buffer mode? And surely proper deinterlacing is slower than 0.25 frames?
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

ZellSF wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
ZellSF wrote:I've ordered one of these and need to know two things to plan my setup:

1) Which modes/options add input lag, and how much? More specifically I'm interested in how much proper deinterlacing + full scaling will add to consider if I want an alternative setup for my PS2.

2) Is the HDMI connection "active" while the unit is off? Will it play nice with automatic HDMI switchers?
Latency: ~0.25 frames in Framelock, 0.25 to 1.25 frames in triple buffering.

Honestly, I can't notice any lag even in triple buffer. It's pretty amazing. I have my Super Nintendo running upscaled to 1200p with PVM scanlines and in triple buffer. Of course, if you're a speedrunner who has put in 10,000 hours on the same game, you might notice a difference in triple buffer. I sure can't.
But does deinterlacing and/or upscaling require triple buffer mode? And surely proper deinterlacing is slower than 0.25 frames?
Well, upscaling the Super Nintendo to 1080p or higher requires triple buffer, otherwise it will lose picture thanks to its slightly weird refresh rate. All of my other consoles, Saturn, PS1, N64, Genesis work fine with framelock on the highest upscaled resolutions.

As for the interlacing, I have no way of measuring, personally. But, all of the reviews I've watched say it sure feels incredibly fast and efficient. I can't notice any laggy controls when I use it.
Steven
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steven »

ZellSF wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
ZellSF wrote:I've ordered one of these and need to know two things to plan my setup:

1) Which modes/options add input lag, and how much? More specifically I'm interested in how much proper deinterlacing + full scaling will add to consider if I want an alternative setup for my PS2.

2) Is the HDMI connection "active" while the unit is off? Will it play nice with automatic HDMI switchers?
Latency: ~0.25 frames in Framelock, 0.25 to 1.25 frames in triple buffering.

Honestly, I can't notice any lag even in triple buffer. It's pretty amazing. I have my Super Nintendo running upscaled to 1200p with PVM scanlines and in triple buffer. Of course, if you're a speedrunner who has put in 10,000 hours on the same game, you might notice a difference in triple buffer. I sure can't.
But does deinterlacing and/or upscaling require triple buffer mode? And surely proper deinterlacing is slower than 0.25 frames?
Here you go: https://youtu.be/nwNrqIjxBaA?t=1553
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

ZellSF wrote:And surely proper deinterlacing is slower than 0.25 frames?
For proper deinterlacing, you would be correct; it can't be done that fast, but we don't have the luxury of waiting. Even with so little latency and buffer, the RT5Xp looks to be better than some video processors I have that introduce much more lag. :-)
We apologise for the inconvenience
thebigcheese
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by thebigcheese »

Nearly all of your latency questions are covered by the product description right on the RetroTink web site and/or the manual. I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm just saying you'd have gotten your answers a lot faster than waiting for us to reply. From the manual: "None of the deinterlacer options add lag."
ZellSF
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by ZellSF »

thebigcheese wrote:Nearly all of your latency questions are covered by the product description right on the RetroTink web site and/or the manual. I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm just saying you'd have gotten your answers a lot faster than waiting for us to reply. From the manual: "None of the deinterlacer options add lag."
I did miss there was a manual. Thanks for mentioning that. But it wouldn't have answered my question if triple buffer is required for deinterlacing and/or free scaling. Which I suppose is what I should have actually asked for, and not mention latency at all.

I got the RetroTink5X now and triple buffering isn't required for deinterlacing or scaling. The RetroTink 5x doesn't play nice with automatic HDMI switchers.

So far everything is exceeding my expectations.
Kobeskillz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Kobeskillz »

ok so I'm new here guys. First off Mike Chi you rock! You've been told this a million times but here is a million and one.

ok so my first but certainly not my last is a simple one. I just purchased a Tink and waiting patiently for it.

I have an OSSC with optimize phase for almost everything for pin sharp pixels (damn you sega genesis).

Does the auto phase in Retrothink achieve this or is it close and i have to go in menus and further tweak for the sharpest possible image?

Cause i got menu fatigue with OSSC. Buuuut i am a whore for a sharp image.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Kobeskillz wrote:ok so I'm new here guys. First off Mike Chi you rock! You've been told this a million times but here is a million and one.

ok so my first but certainly not my last is a simple one. I just purchased a Tink and waiting patiently for it.

I have an OSSC with optimize phase for almost everything for pin sharp pixels (damn you sega genesis).

Does the auto phase in Retrothink achieve this or is it close and i have to go in menus and further tweak for the sharpest possible image?

Cause i got menu fatigue with OSSC. Buuuut i am a whore for a sharp image.
All you have to do is choose the appropriate preset that Mike has programmed in there and it'll lock onto optimal timings and sharpness within a second or two.
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