RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

thebigcheese wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:I just got mine today and I only had time to do a VERY quick test to see if it even worked with my TV (it does!), but I have a few questions:

1. Is it my imagination or does adding scanlines really dim the picture? Is there a way to avoid this? I wish there was an option for 25% scanlines instead of 50/90.

2. If I select 480p it stretches the screen into 16:9 wide mode for some reason. Is that something to do with my TV? Actual 480p content from game systems doesn't do this.

3. When I fired up Super Mario World I noticed some odd shadowing behind the letters on the map screen. Turning on the scanlines hides this, but if you look it's still there. Is this something to do with my TV, cables, or is that just how SMW is and I just never noticed it before?
Scanlines will always darken the picture. That's what happens when you remove half the image :) The 480p stretch is expected as it's a very wide resolution really only intended for use with capturing. Mike said somewhere (earlier here, I think) that he doesn't really expect anyone to be using that with their TVs. And finally, the "shadows" are there not just on SMW but on SNES in general. That is the main reason people go for the later "1-chip" consoles as that is really the only way to get rid of that.
Thank you for the answers, the really helps. I guess my TV was never good enough to notice the shadowing before. :)

One more question, What's generally the best output resolution to use or does it all depend on the TV? They all seem to have their pros and cons, but on my TV 720p and 1080p Under seem to look the best as other modes seem to chop off some of the picture. Some of the other modes like 768p, 1200p, and 1400p have odd muted colors that don't loo quite right. I'm not sure what could be causing that.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by thebigcheese »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Thank you for the answers, the really helps. I guess my TV was never good enough to notice the shadowing before. :)

One more question, What's generally the best output resolution to use or does it all depend on the TV? They all seem to have their pros and cons, but on my TV 720p and 1080p Under seem to look the best as other modes seem to chop off some of the picture. Some of the other modes like 768p, 1200p, and 1400p have odd muted colors that don't loo quite right. I'm not sure what could be causing that.
You also don't really notice the shadowing playing on a CRT, especially if you're using composite as it just looks like general crappiness of the technology. The ideal resolution will be the one that matches your TV so that the TV doesn't have to do any scaling. If it's 1080p, use that; if it's a 1440p monitor, use that; and for 4k... Either might work, but which one you like better will probably depend on the TV. 1080p will be a nice 2x scale on 4k, but the TV might still make it look softer than a scaled 1440p image.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

thebigcheese wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:Thank you for the answers, the really helps. I guess my TV was never good enough to notice the shadowing before. :)

One more question, What's generally the best output resolution to use or does it all depend on the TV? They all seem to have their pros and cons, but on my TV 720p and 1080p Under seem to look the best as other modes seem to chop off some of the picture. Some of the other modes like 768p, 1200p, and 1400p have odd muted colors that don't loo quite right. I'm not sure what could be causing that.
You also don't really notice the shadowing playing on a CRT, especially if you're using composite as it just looks like general crappiness of the technology. The ideal resolution will be the one that matches your TV so that the TV doesn't have to do any scaling. If it's 1080p, use that; if it's a 1440p monitor, use that; and for 4k... Either might work, but which one you like better will probably depend on the TV. 1080p will be a nice 2x scale on 4k, but the TV might still make it look softer than a scaled 1440p image.
My TV is a Vizio D39F-E1. It's 1080p but not 4K so I guess 1080p is probably best.

My S-Video based Atari systems (2600, 5200, 7800, etc.) look absolutely amazing on the 5X Pro. It was worth it just for that alone.

I'm having some issues with my DC however. I have a SCART cable for it of unknown origin and while it works, it seems to be losing some color definition. What I mean is that if you look at the word MENU for example in Gigawing 2, you can see that spaces between the parts of the M and E are kind of blurred together making them hard to read. The only interpolation options available are 4:3 and 16:9 Generic so I'm not sure if I just have a crappy cable (it it composite not RGB?).

EDIT: It looks that way on my CRT as well. I wonder if my cable is really just composite or something?


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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

If your Dreamcast SCART cable doesn't have a 480i/480p switch on it, then it's probably composite.

In terms of resolution, just use whatever the highest resolution that works properly on your TV. TVs don't use nearest-neighbour scaling, so there's no advantage to using 1080p on a 4K display.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:I just got mine today and I only had time to do a VERY quick test to see if it even worked with my TV (it does!), but I have a few questions:

1. Is it my imagination or does adding scanlines really dim the picture? Is there a way to avoid this? I wish there was an option for 25% scanlines instead of 50/90.

2. If I select 480p it stretches the screen into 16:9 wide mode for some reason. Is that something to do with my TV? Actual 480p content from game systems doesn't do this.

3. When I fired up Super Mario World I noticed some odd shadowing behind the letters on the map screen. Turning on the scanlines hides this, but if you look it's still there. Is this something to do with my TV, cables, or is that just how SMW is and I just never noticed it before?
Scanlines will always darken the picture. That's what happens when you remove half the image :) The 480p stretch is expected as it's a very wide resolution really only intended for use with capturing. Mike said somewhere (earlier here, I think) that he doesn't really expect anyone to be using that with their TVs. And finally, the "shadows" are there not just on SMW but on SNES in general. That is the main reason people go for the later "1-chip" consoles as that is really the only way to get rid of that.
Thank you for the answers, the really helps. I guess my TV was never good enough to notice the shadowing before. :)

One more question, What's generally the best output resolution to use or does it all depend on the TV? They all seem to have their pros and cons, but on my TV 720p and 1080p Under seem to look the best as other modes seem to chop off some of the picture. Some of the other modes like 768p, 1200p, and 1400p have odd muted colors that don't loo quite right. I'm not sure what could be causing that.
I also never noticed how bad my 3-chip SNES was before switching it to the OSSC, even on a nice CRT (FV310) with RGB cables it wasn't really noticeable. A 1-chip will look much much better.

If I had to guess why 768p, 1200p, and 1440p have different looking colors, I'd say your display is detecting them as PC resolutions and switching picture modes. PC input modes usually have the least lag, but it may be about the same as a game mode with fewer picture options available. But you should probably be able to calibrate the PC mode to look about the same- maybe the color temp setting is different so it all looks kind of off from what you're used to?
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eightbitminiboss
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by eightbitminiboss »

Anyone using a HDMI 2.0 switch with their 5x? I bought this Monoprice switch over the weekend which unfortunately does not work with my PS5 (hence why I need 2.0) and more worryingly, somehow drops signal on resolution switching with the RetroTINK. I then bought this no name switch and that works with both my PS5 and no issues with the resolution switching with the RetroTINK but, it appears I've lost the ability for 1440p output. It's not gamebreaking for me as 1080p(over) still looks pretty good but I'd like to retain the 1440p output if possible and was hoping if someone had an HDMI switch that worked.

Edit: Well nevermind, I came home from work and now this other switch is being a jerk too now.
Last edited by eightbitminiboss on Tue May 18, 2021 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

There's definitely something wrong with the DC SCART cable. The RGC one at 480p looks amazing, especially with the upcoming FW that turns on auto-phase for 480p sources. I haven't tried the RA ones, but I assume they're as good or better (as are eventually the HDRVs).
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Josh128 wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:
Josh128 wrote:Going on week 3, still waiting for a shipping notification here. :(
Are you on Twitter? Mike has been posting constant updates on shipping, they are getting through them and shipping in order number. Waiting is frustrating but I found it pretty easy when Mike has been so transparent about the process. He’s even temporarily closed the store to concentrate on shipping the 5x’s out.

In stark contrast to Analogue who took 3 weeks to ship my NT mini noir and were silent throughout despite initially promising to ship “by the end the week”. My order number was very low so they shipped them in a seemingly random order.

I dont see where they say they are by order number. Im in the 23100s. I did get an order confirmation on the day I bought, just no shipping conf yet. Will be patient.
22506 here and I'll have mine in hand tomorrow. Not sure how many they are shipping a day but it shouldn't be that much longer for you if they are going by order number.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

mikechi2 wrote:There's definitely something wrong with the DC SCART cable. The RGC one at 480p looks amazing, especially with the upcoming FW that turns on auto-phase for 480p sources. I haven't tried the RA ones, but I assume they're as good or better (as are eventually the HDRVs).
$68 for a DC cable is a bit insane to me. The one from RGC is more reasonably priced, but is out of stock (well both are actually). I'm guessing my cable is actually composite SCART, but I'm not sure how to tell. It only has 9 pins on it if that helps.

I tried an S-Video cable I had laying around and it looks pretty much the same as the SCART cable I have. If it really is composite then the DC's composite is REALLY good. I guess I'll wait for the RGC cable to come in and use my VGA box in the mean time.

EDIT: Funny, the letters still have that problem in VGA. Not as bad, but it's still there for sure.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:I'm guessing my cable is actually composite SCART, but I'm not sure how to tell. It only has 9 pins on it if that helps.
You can try to check continuity on either ends of the cable. Use a multimeter on continuity mode (usually the lowest resistance mode) and see if you can get these: https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:dreamcastav

On the other side is this: https://pinouts.ru/Audio-Video-Hardware ... nout.shtml
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

BTW in case anyone was curious, the SMS 3D Glasses do not work with the 5X Pro (at least on my TV). At 720p it 'almost' works, but it's not quite right. Looks like my CRT will need to stick around for light guns and 3D Glasses.

Btw I see that the 5X Pro dutifully replicates the blue overscan border around some Genesis games like Sonic 1, is there a way to eliminate that or is that just way it is?
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Finally got a shipping notification! :D
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

I forgot to take a picture but my RGB modded Turbo Duo looks absolutely amazing. The Duo was one of those systems that always was cut off on the sides on my CRT unless I left an ungodly amount of overscan visible. I can't wait to try my Neo Geo when it comes back from being repaired.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by marus »

Tempest_2084 wrote:I'm having some issues with my DC however. I have a SCART cable for it of unknown origin and while it works, it seems to be losing some color definition. What I mean is that if you look at the word MENU for example in Gigawing 2, you can see that spaces between the parts of the M and E are kind of blurred together making them hard to read. The only interpolation options available are 4:3 and 16:9 Generic so I'm not sure if I just have a crappy cable (it it composite not RGB?).

EDIT: It looks that way on my CRT as well. I wonder if my cable is really just composite or something?
For what it's worth, I just tried the same test myself using both 480i over SCART into the Retrotink 5x, and 480p over VGA into the OSSC (I don't have a way to feed VGA into the Retrotink). The gaps between the letters are slightly more clear in 480p, but it's still pretty blurred together. It's possible that both of my cables suck, but I think the more likely scenario is that's just how the menu in Giga Wing 2 looks (for anyone curious, I got my cables from thefoo.83 on eBay).

480i Retrotink 5x, 1080p Over
Spoiler
Image
480p OSSC, Line 2x
Spoiler
Image
Before you drop $70 on a new cable, I'd download the 240p test suite and check out some test patterns. That'll give you a better idea whether the issue truly is your cable or not.

Also this is a bit late but thanks a bunch Mike Chi! I do most of my gaming on a CRT, but it's great having a top-quality plug-and-play solution for streaming or playing on my big screen LCD! I've had an OSSC for a while too but I didn't use it too often just because its always had so many issues with my equipment, and I didn't want to put a ton of effort/money into getting it work for just a secondary setup. Now I don't have to compromise between high-quality video and ease of use.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Nice to know I'm not insane then. S-Video also had blurred together letters so I'm guessing that's just how it is.
marus wrote: Before you drop $70 on a new cable, I'd download the 240p test suite and check out some test patterns. That'll give you a better idea whether the issue truly is your cable or not.
That's a good idea. What should I look for when using the suite?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by thebigcheese »

The cables are very worth it, though. I have the Retro Access one and it is great. The cost has to do with the wire, which is probably a good $10+ in parts, the connectors (including the DC side which is custom made), and the circuitry inside for allowing 480i and 480p switching. Plus labor, of course, these things can be a pain in the butt to solder. I know it seems like a lot, and it is, but it's not unreasonable for what you get.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Nice to know I'm not insane then. S-Video also had blurred together letters so I'm guessing that's just how it is.
marus wrote: Before you drop $70 on a new cable, I'd download the 240p test suite and check out some test patterns. That'll give you a better idea whether the issue truly is your cable or not.
That's a good idea. What should I look for when using the suite?
The test patterns will all have a menu you can open up that will explain what you're looking for/need to adjust.
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marus
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by marus »

Tempest_2084 wrote:That's a good idea. What should I look for when using the suite?
I don't have as good an eye for this as other people, but if you're worried about signal noise or color compression then I'd look at the Color Bleed Test, White Screen Test, and maybe the Horizontal Stripes and Checkerboard Tests as well. The Color Bleed test in particular will show if you have any color bleeding like you're describing in the Giga Wing 2 menu. The White Screen test (and the red, green, and blue variants) might expose any video noise in your chain as well. These sometimes show up as jailbars or diagonal patterns and tend to be most apparent in large areas of flat colors.

This isn't related to video quality, but the White Screen Test is also good for detecting audio noise in your cables as well. If you have an unshielded SCART cable, then displaying a bright image can sometimes cause the video signal to interfere with the audio, resulting in audio hum. This is usually the main reason people upgrade to a fully-shielded cable like the RGC or Retro Access ones.
thebigcheese wrote:The cables are very worth it, though. I have the Retro Access one and it is great. The cost has to do with the wire, which is probably a good $10+ in parts, the connectors (including the DC side which is custom made), and the circuitry inside for allowing 480i and 480p switching. Plus labor, of course, these things can be a pain in the butt to solder. I know it seems like a lot, and it is, but it's not unreasonable for what you get.
To be clear, I'm not knocking on Retro Access or RGC. I'm a big fan of RGC myself, and while I haven't purchased from Retro Access before, I'm sure they're great and worth every penny if you need a fully-shielded cable. I just wanted to offer some troubleshooting tips before telling someone to spend money on cables they may not necessarily need. In my experience, the difference between a "good" cable vs a top-quality fully-shielded cable is usually pretty small, outside of fixing audio noise. Obviously your mileage may vary, but if you look at some tests and then determine that you think everything looks fine, then that's money you can save towards something else :)

If you have time to kill, RetroRGB has a video on what you might expect between different qualities of cables here.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

I'm seeing videos of people running the Wii U through the 5X Pro. What's the point of that? The Wii U can do 1080p on its own, I'm not understanding what people are trying to accomplish by running it through the 5X Pro. Am I missing something?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:I'm seeing videos of people running the Wii U through the 5X Pro. What's the point of that? The Wii U can do 1080p on its own, I'm not understanding what people are trying to accomplish by running it through the 5X Pro. Am I missing something?
My guess would be setting the Wii U to 480p due to aspect ratio issues in some VC titles or GC/Wii games.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Possibly also to use the downscaling functionality, particularly 480i -> 240p for certain games.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Does the Wii emulation on the Wii U benefit from the 5X over just straight HDMI? I have a GC with component cables for GC games, but I use my Wii U for Wii games since my real Wii is in another room.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

IIRC the Wii U has unresolvable issues with chroma shift and stuff on Wii games (Extrems could correct me or give more info), so if you've got a Wii, you should probably use that for Wii games instead of the Wii U.

EDIT: Found Extrem's post:
Extrems wrote:Wii U Wii Mode is a disaster.
  1. 16 pixels is cut on each sides, in destination space. This result in 480p having the most overscan and 1080p the least. There is no 1:1 mapping.
  2. There's a disagreement between left and center chroma sampling location. This result in a slight chroma shift.
  3. There's no conversion between Rec. 601 and Rec. 709 Y'CbCr. This can result in wrong colors in HD and on the Wii U GamePad. This is further exacerbated by the smaller color gamut on the Wii U GamePad.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Has anyone else noticed that the 5X Pro runs kind of warm? Is there any harm in keeping it on 24/7? It's getting power from my TV's USB port so there's no really good way to turn it off other than to manually unplug the cable. If I use the shutoff feature it turns back on again when I shut my TV off. No idea why that happens.

I guess if leaving it on is a problem I could plug it into a regular outlet, then maybe shutting off the TV won't turn it back on again.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

Tempest_2084 wrote:If I use the shutoff feature it turns back on again when I shut my TV off. No idea why that happens.
Turning your TV on or off probably looks like the plug is being inserted or removed to the unit. That would have more to do with what happens on your TV's power rails when you switch it on or off then with the Tink itself.

It's probably best not to leave it on constantly just because it's going to put heat and hours on the components. I'm sure it will last for a good long while regardless, but why needlessly stress it? Also, I suppose it's going to be drawing some small, almost negligible amount of power you pay for.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

You can use the power button on the remote to turn the device off. But in general, the heat is not a problem.

Edit: Oh yeah didn't catch the last part. I think your TV power cycles the USB port when you power off the TV. Odd that it doesn't keep it off completely.
Last edited by mikechi2 on Thu May 20, 2021 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cgoffa1
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by cgoffa1 »

Yesterday I was doing some more testing on the tink with my NES. The NES is RGB modded and I am using HD retrovision cables into a gcompsw. On 1080p modes the screen is perfect. However when I go to 1200 or 1440 there is green interference on solid black backgrounds (like the ever drive menu). Any ideas on what is going on?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

mikechi2 wrote:You can use the power button on the remote to turn the device off. But in general, the heat is not a problem.

Edit: Oh yeah didn't catch the last part. I think your TV power cycles the USB port when you power off the TV. Odd that it doesn't keep it off completely.
Derp! How did I miss the power button the remote? I'll just use that, but I'll have to plug it into something other than my TV I guess.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by eightbitminiboss »

Question for anyone using 1440p output. Are you getting signal dropouts during the boot up sequence for Castlevania: Bloodlines (TMSS, copyright screen, SEGA logo, Konami logo) and after character selection and map screen on the Genesis/Mega Drive on SCART (don't know if this affects HDRV cables, don't use 'em)? It seems to happen for both my display (LG 27GL83A) and capture card (Avermedia Live Gamer 4K). Doesn't appear to happen on the 1080p options. A quirk of it being 1920x1440 perhaps that neither device likes or just how the console processes video?
Last edited by eightbitminiboss on Fri May 21, 2021 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by James-F »

Gotta say, I'm thinking about storing my big 29" Trinitron to make more room in the room, never before I felt an upscaler is good enough to replace my Trinitron for all consoles.
My scaler requirements were always clear to me but no scaler delivered them in one package that 'just works' like a CRT, it had to look good/sharp with correct 4:3 aspect ratio, fill a 1080p screen vertically, no shimmer, no sync dropping, quality deinterlacing, wide tolerance Composite/S-Video handling that looks good, basically replacing a CRT with stable 'emulator like' output but with real consoles, RT5xPro delivered.
And to think it is only the beginning with plenty of room for future expansion.
Good times.
Last edited by James-F on Sat May 22, 2021 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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