RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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Fudoh
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Fudoh »

I would be surprised if the output resolution was 1440...
480p is 1440x480px indeed. My Sony TV won't show it either and other processors show it with a 3:1 ratio by default.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Hmm, I'd guess it was intended for DACs for CRT use, then? I can't think of much other point for the 480p output, after all.
Radewagon
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Radewagon »

Oof. Longtime lurker...
Got an account to ask this potentially dumb question. Do scanlines not work with 480i? I couldn't get them to show up on PS2 or an RGB modded N64 when outputting 480i. Both were using HD Retrovision component cables. Conversely, scanlines worked in 240p for N64 titles and the 480p PS2 titles.

Anyway, is this operating as designed. If so, that's fine. I just want to make sure mine isn't malfunctioning or anything.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Yes it uses a 1440 x 480p resolution. The goal was for max quality with DACs and cap cards. I figured few would use this for actual play.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

I absolutely love this thing for 480p. 1440p output with 50% scan lines is probably in no way authentic, but damn it looks incredible on my LG OLED.

I also kind of like the CRT simulation mode for some PS2 games like the burnout series with a gamma adjustment on the display to lift the brightness back up a touch. Even the BOB mode isn’t as harsh as the OSSC’s implementation.

For now though I’ll probably stick with the OSSC for most 240p consoles. I’d miss the extensive scanline customisation options and masking too much, but if it broke tomorrow I’d not feel the need to buy another one.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

EnragedWhale wrote:I absolutely love this thing for 480p. 1440p output with 50% scan lines is probably in no way authentic, but damn it looks incredible on my LG OLED.
Do you have any way to share a quality pic of this 480p@1440p w/ 50% scanlines? I'd love to see it.
N64
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by N64 »

Here's some images of what I mentioned before about the cropping in 1080p (Under).

Here's Super Monkey Ball Deluxe for Xbox running in 480p via component...
1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image

1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image

And for comparison's sake I also checked out Super Monkey Ball 2 for GameCube running on a Wii also in 480p via component...

1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image

It's still there but a little less noticeable on the Wii I think due to the Wii (or the game) more aggressively compensating for overscan. At 1080p (Fill) the image from the Wii wasn't touching the edges of the TV, while the Xbox did. The bottom edge in 1080p (Under) is in the same exact position between both consoles, while the other three edges are not, these photos were taken on a tripod so you can flip back and forth to compare.

The good news is that although pretty much every game I've tested did this, it didn't completely cut off important text or HUD so far as I've seen. It's just weird because I wouldn't have expected this to happen from just line-doubling 480p to 960p. If not for that small annoyance, I'd probably leave it in 1080p (Under) permanently as it really looks the best to me for 480p, especially with 50% scanlines. Call it inauthentic if you want but the scanlines at 480p does look similar to a CRT and adds some perceptual sharpness.

Any chance this could potentially be fixed in firmware, Mike? I know you both are working very hard at the moment trying to get orders out, but I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I thought I'd add it to the list of suggestions if so. In any case, thanks for your incredible work on the 5x, and for all the work I know you'll continue to put into it to make it even better!
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Josh128 wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:I absolutely love this thing for 480p. 1440p output with 50% scan lines is probably in no way authentic, but damn it looks incredible on my LG OLED.
Do you have any way to share a quality pic of this 480p@1440p w/ 50% scanlines? I'd love to see it.
Unfortunately just an iPhone camera so I’m not sure it’ll convey very well but I’ll give it a shot after work tomorrow.
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Linkr2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Linkr2 »

Here is another example of the scanlines color issue, this time on Crazy Taxi, 480p Dreamcast at 1440p:

Image

Bigger images inside:
Spoiler
Scanlines off:
Image

Scanlines Integer 100%:
Image
Ruprit wrote:
Linkr2 wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:Cool, I'll see if I can replicate that Pikachu yellow and see what happens, haha.
Haha, thanks mikechi2 for your awesome work!

As far as I've been testing, any extreme light/pure yellow will trigger that, here is another example.

Dreamcast 480p through scart (with the Sega Dreamcast RGB 480p SCART cable from retrogamingcables), in the CAPCOM vs SNK 2 start screen you can notice that same effect at the bottom of the yellow logo shape, and on the yellow texts of this screen:
I noticed this issue while playing Shinobi III on the Genesis after I lose a block of health.
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Image
Same here, although less common, I also noticed this color issue in 240p sources, on some Sega Saturn games. I think the issue is always present when using scanlines but depends entirely on the colors shown on the screen and their brightness/intensity, some of them will change more or less.

Here is an example of this color issue in 240p content, Sonic Jam on the Sega Saturn scaled to 1440p, you can notice it in the yellow text, where this pinkish noise appear:

Image

Image
N64 wrote:Here's some images of what I mentioned before about the cropping in 1080p (Under).
Spoiler
Here's Super Monkey Ball Deluxe for Xbox running in 480p via component...
1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image

1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image

And for comparison's sake I also checked out Super Monkey Ball 2 for GameCube running on a Wii also in 480p via component...

1080p (Fill):
Image

1080p (Under):
Image
It's still there but a little less noticeable on the Wii I think due to the Wii (or the game) more aggressively compensating for overscan. At 1080p (Fill) the image from the Wii wasn't touching the edges of the TV, while the Xbox did. The bottom edge in 1080p (Under) is in the same exact position between both consoles, while the other three edges are not, these photos were taken on a tripod so you can flip back and forth to compare.

The good news is that although pretty much every game I've tested did this, it didn't completely cut off important text or HUD so far as I've seen. It's just weird because I wouldn't have expected this to happen from just line-doubling 480p to 960p. If not for that small annoyance, I'd probably leave it in 1080p (Under) permanently as it really looks the best to me for 480p, especially with 50% scanlines. Call it inauthentic if you want but the scanlines at 480p does look similar to a CRT and adds some perceptual sharpness.

Any chance this could potentially be fixed in firmware, Mike? I know you both are working very hard at the moment trying to get orders out, but I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I thought I'd add it to the list of suggestions if so. In any case, thanks for your incredible work on the 5x, and for all the work I know you'll continue to put into it to make it even better!
Same here, I have this same issue with my dreamcast at 480p in the 1080p (UNDER) mode, cropping the bottom of the screen (it's funny cause it should be one of the modes not cropping anything haha, as you said, it is 480p x 2 = 960p inside a 1080p frame so nothing should be lost). The rest of the modes look great (480p x3 on 1440p looks incredible).
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
eightbitminiboss
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by eightbitminiboss »

TooBeaucoup wrote:Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
It's possible there's some overdriving happening somewhere. I'm not getting the same results. Unfortunately I don't have Sonic Jam handy so I loaded up Sonic 2 on Genesis and I don't see the shift in yellow happen until Integer scanlines and I don't see any in Shinobi 3's life bar at all except for the yellows in Life, PTS and the Ikazuchi ninjutsu. Forgive the aspect ratios, I just got a hold of an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K and it does weird things when I capture screenshots. They're not stretched otherwise. I'll have to figure out what that is offline.

https://imgur.com/a/pF7W7JD
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

TooBeaucoup wrote:Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
There's a sign bit bug at high magnitudes that's already been fixed in the next release.

And can we get away from this integer Line3/4/5x stuff. The RT5X is a full fledged scaler. :wink:

I'll look into the 480p crop stuff in a bit.
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vol.2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

eightbitminiboss wrote:I don't see the shift in yellow happen until Integer scanlines and I don't see any in Shinobi 3's life bar at all except for the yellows in Life, PTS and the Ikazuchi ninjutsu.
To me, that looks normal. That color fringing is in the other shots, but it's harder to see because it's blended with the top and the bottom lines and it's blurrier. AFAIK, that actually looks like OG Genesis output to me with the bars and color fringing, none of which would have been visible in NTSC.

OTOH, if you're comparing it to emulation, there wouldn't be any of that:
Spoiler
Image
Ruprit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Ruprit »

eightbitminiboss wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
It's possible there's some overdriving happening somewhere. I'm not getting the same results. Unfortunately I don't have Sonic Jam handy so I loaded up Sonic 2 on Genesis and I don't see the shift in yellow happen until Integer scanlines and I don't see any in Shinobi 3's life bar at all except for the yellows in Life, PTS and the Ikazuchi ninjutsu. Forgive the aspect ratios, I just got a hold of an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K and it does weird things when I capture screenshots. They're not stretched otherwise. I'll have to figure out what that is offline.

https://imgur.com/a/pF7W7JD
That's interesting. Are you using SCART cables or HDRetrovision?
eightbitminiboss
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by eightbitminiboss »

Ruprit wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
It's possible there's some overdriving happening somewhere. I'm not getting the same results. Unfortunately I don't have Sonic Jam handy so I loaded up Sonic 2 on Genesis and I don't see the shift in yellow happen until Integer scanlines and I don't see any in Shinobi 3's life bar at all except for the yellows in Life, PTS and the Ikazuchi ninjutsu. Forgive the aspect ratios, I just got a hold of an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K and it does weird things when I capture screenshots. They're not stretched otherwise. I'll have to figure out what that is offline.

https://imgur.com/a/pF7W7JD
That's interesting. Are you using SCART cables or HDRetrovision?
SCART. Using RGC's pack-a-punch with stereo audio.
Ruprit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Ruprit »

eightbitminiboss wrote:
SCART. Using RGC's pack-a-punch with stereo audio.
I was using HDR cables. I now need to test with a SCART cable.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Ruprit wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote:
SCART. Using RGC's pack-a-punch with stereo audio.
I was using HDR cables. I now need to test with a SCART cable.
Hey guys - don't want to waste any of your time. The problem was a bug in the vertical scaler in scanline mode. It's already been fixed.
Ruprit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Ruprit »

mikechi2 wrote:
Ruprit wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote:
SCART. Using RGC's pack-a-punch with stereo audio.
I was using HDR cables. I now need to test with a SCART cable.
Hey guys - don't want to waste any of your time. The problem was a bug in the vertical scaler in scanline mode. It's already been fixed.
Awesome! Thank you!
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TooBeaucoup »

mikechi2 wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:Does that color shift with the scanlines show up with them set to 50%? Or does it show up in every line mode, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc? That is most disappointing because I love using scanline options.
There's a sign bit bug at high magnitudes that's already been fixed in the next release.

And can we get away from this integer Line3/4/5x stuff. The RT5X is a full fledged scaler. :wink:

I'll look into the 480p crop stuff in a bit.
I'm sorryyyyyyyy!!!! I'm so used to speaking in OSSC terms that the lingo is ingrained in my head. :lol:
RocketBelt
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by RocketBelt »

There's one on ebay UK for £700. That makes it just under $990. Nice scalp there. :shock:
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

RocketBelt wrote:There's one on ebay UK for £700. That makes it just under $990. Nice scalp there. :shock:
Holy crap! If someone wants to pay me $1,000 for mine I'll gladly sell it and pick one up from the next batch. Hell, I'll even discount it to $900 :)
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Going on week 3, still waiting for a shipping notification here. :(
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Josh128 wrote:Going on week 3, still waiting for a shipping notification here. :(
I only got my notice last Monday (supposedly it should be here today). I don't know if your number was higher or lower than mine.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Josh128 wrote:Going on week 3, still waiting for a shipping notification here. :(
Are you on Twitter? Mike has been posting constant updates on shipping, they are getting through them and shipping in order number. Waiting is frustrating but I found it pretty easy when Mike has been so transparent about the process. He’s even temporarily closed the store to concentrate on shipping the 5x’s out.

In stark contrast to Analogue who took 3 weeks to ship my NT mini noir and were silent throughout despite initially promising to ship “by the end the week”. My order number was very low so they shipped them in a seemingly random order.
EnragedWhale
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by EnragedWhale »

Josh128 wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:I absolutely love this thing for 480p. 1440p output with 50% scan lines is probably in no way authentic, but damn it looks incredible on my LG OLED.
Do you have any way to share a quality pic of this 480p@1440p w/ 50% scanlines? I'd love to see it.
Some terrible screenshots here from a Mario session with my 3yr old.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ftrk5z9geju9 ... -beqa?dl=0

Edit to add: NSMB seems to be letterboxed. 1440p seems to fill the screen vertically for 480p content nicely.
fernan1234
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

Those photos look quite nice! A good example of how 480p pictures can benefit from fine "scanlines" to soften the hard edges of those jagged polygons.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

EnragedWhale wrote:
Josh128 wrote:Going on week 3, still waiting for a shipping notification here. :(
Are you on Twitter? Mike has been posting constant updates on shipping, they are getting through them and shipping in order number. Waiting is frustrating but I found it pretty easy when Mike has been so transparent about the process. He’s even temporarily closed the store to concentrate on shipping the 5x’s out.

In stark contrast to Analogue who took 3 weeks to ship my NT mini noir and were silent throughout despite initially promising to ship “by the end the week”. My order number was very low so they shipped them in a seemingly random order.

I dont see where they say they are by order number. Im in the 23100s. I did get an order confirmation on the day I bought, just no shipping conf yet. Will be patient.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Tempest_2084 »

I just got mine today and I only had time to do a VERY quick test to see if it even worked with my TV (it does!), but I have a few questions:

1. Is it my imagination or does adding scanlines really dim the picture? Is there a way to avoid this? I wish there was an option for 25% scanlines instead of 50/90.

2. If I select 480p it stretches the screen into 16:9 wide mode for some reason. Is that something to do with my TV? Actual 480p content from game systems doesn't do this.

3. When I fired up Super Mario World I noticed some odd shadowing behind the letters on the map screen. Turning on the scanlines hides this, but if you look it's still there. Is this something to do with my TV, cables, or is that just how SMW is and I just never noticed it before?

Image
thebigcheese
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by thebigcheese »

Tempest_2084 wrote:I just got mine today and I only had time to do a VERY quick test to see if it even worked with my TV (it does!), but I have a few questions:

1. Is it my imagination or does adding scanlines really dim the picture? Is there a way to avoid this? I wish there was an option for 25% scanlines instead of 50/90.

2. If I select 480p it stretches the screen into 16:9 wide mode for some reason. Is that something to do with my TV? Actual 480p content from game systems doesn't do this.

3. When I fired up Super Mario World I noticed some odd shadowing behind the letters on the map screen. Turning on the scanlines hides this, but if you look it's still there. Is this something to do with my TV, cables, or is that just how SMW is and I just never noticed it before?
Scanlines will always darken the picture. That's what happens when you remove half the image :) The 480p stretch is expected as it's a very wide resolution really only intended for use with capturing. Mike said somewhere (earlier here, I think) that he doesn't really expect anyone to be using that with their TVs. And finally, the "shadows" are there not just on SMW but on SNES in general. That is the main reason people go for the later "1-chip" consoles as that is really the only way to get rid of that.
TrashbagTony
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by TrashbagTony »

So I've been messing with the settings on the 5x, and I notice that If i set my TV settings to stretch, and try to do 16:9 mode on a 480i source, it shows a black bar on the left side but not the right. I'm using 1080p Overfill.

I wish you could not only go up and down to adjust the picture, but left and right, as seeing streams and such, I don't think I'm the only one with this issue (unless this is just how it is with stretching a 480i source to 1080p). Any advice would be appreciated to try and resolve this, as I've seemed to try every setting, but cannot get a perfect stretched image for 480i sources.

Edit:

Nevermind it was just me being dumb, just had to adjust the in game screen position. But this is not an option on all 480i so the issue is still present. Any advice would still be appreciated!
Last edited by TrashbagTony on Mon May 17, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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