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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:51 pm 


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Posts: 2559
Location: Montréal, Canada
Josh128 wrote:
From what we gather here, Mike had at least 1500-2000 units for sale. At $275 a pop, its understandable he didnt foresee them selling out in 5 minutes. So you shouldnt hold that against the man. Thats probably more units than AMD or Nvidia initially had for sale of their top GPUs released recently.

Personally I would have never thought a device like the RT5X would have sold so quickly at that price. Its unbelievable. Its already a super niche fucking product, way more niche than most PC hardware. If Mike had projected this he could have easily launched at $299 and made himself an extra $40,000 no sweat in maybe 10 minutes. People are just fucking swimming in disposable money right now, apparently.


I'm surprised they sold out as quickly as they did, considering the price (but, pleasantly surprised, since I'm a distributor for them), but Mike produced literally as many as he could get from the factory. It's why there's an even larger batch coming so soon.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to have this as two posts, I hit reply instead of edit.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:52 pm 


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I briefly owned a behar bros Akura. The build quality wasn't super high but it didn't seem like a complete piece of shit. I got rid of it because it sampled 480p @ 800px/line. Which is fucking retarded on a product designed specifically for the Dreamcast which outputs DTV spec 480p (858px/line). Needless to say it had horrible jailbars because of the sampling error.

Seems like they just used a COTS VGA digitizer solution that was designed for VESA 640x480.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:56 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 7256
Location: Bedford, UK
You're right, people with too much disposable income and people like me keeping all that disposable income because everything I want is OOS. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:17 pm 


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I got mine because I'm tired of playing around with CRT adjustments. I have a SD CRT with component inputs that I've been using but with all the over/underscan issues between systems and geometry issues inherit with the Trintron tube, I could never get the picture I wanted. I have a 20" PVM, but even with that the geometry isn't the greatest and it's only 20" (I like to sit back when I play games). The 5X seems like it's the answer to all my problems so now I can have all my systems hooked up to my 40" flat panel and use the old CRT for my classic systems (2600, Intellivision, etc.). The only thing I loose are lightguns and the SMS 3D Glasses, but I can always hook the system back up to the CRT if I must play one of those games.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:44 pm 


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Location: Kentucky
Josh128 wrote:
From what we gather here, Mike had at least 1500-2000 units for sale. At $275 a pop, its understandable he didnt foresee them selling out in 5 minutes. So you shouldnt hold that against the man. Thats probably more units than AMD or Nvidia initially had for sale of their top GPUs released recently.

Personally I would have never thought a device like the RT5X would have sold so quickly at that price. Its unbelievable. Its already a super niche fucking product, way more niche than most PC hardware. If Mike had projected this he could have easily launched at $299 and made himself an extra $40,000 no sweat in maybe 10 minutes. People are just fucking swimming in disposable money right now, apparently.


Look at retro game prices the past 2 or 3 months and see that collecting might as well be over.

But anyway the retrorgb review made it sound like mike already had to price the unit higher than expected because of part shortages, so doesn't sound like the type to inflate price just from demand (though the next batch might be that $300 because of even more part shortages).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:20 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 159
Thanks guys, I honestly didn't expect for it to sell out so quickly either. I hate FOMO type marketing bullshit, so I'm sorry if it caused any of those feelings. The shortages has been rough. We had to do an emergency redesign last month to keep the next batch going (no functional changes, just had to swap in a more expensive part) plus buy way more parts than we need to just to fight for the right to buy the parts in the first place.

I really hope with the next batch or so, we'll be able to keep inventory so people can get it whenever they feel like. We'll see haha.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:36 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
mikechi2 wrote:
Thanks guys, I honestly didn't expect for it to sell out so quickly either. I hate FOMO type marketing bullshit, so I'm sorry if it caused any of those feelings. The shortages has been rough. We had to do an emergency redesign last month to keep the next batch going (no functional changes, just had to swap in a more expensive part) plus buy way more parts than we need to just to fight for the right to buy the parts in the first place.

I really hope with the next batch or so, we'll be able to keep inventory so people can get it whenever they feel like. We'll see haha.

You’re putting so much on the line acquiring that much as an individual. Hopefully people can appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:57 pm 


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As someone who also has to buy and build PCBs for work, this is not surprising at all. Even when it's not pandemic shortages, there are sometimes global shortages of certain parts, or a company will all-of-a-sudden decide to just stop making a part with little warning.

What it comes down to is you are above average with communicating your situation with everyone, and that makes all the difference. Thanks for all the energy you are putting into keeping things fun for everyone. :D


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:06 am 



Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 405
Josh128 wrote:
From what we gather here, Mike had at least 1500-2000 units for sale. At $275 a pop, its understandable he didnt foresee them selling out in 5 minutes. So you shouldnt hold that against the man. Thats probably more units than AMD or Nvidia initially had for sale of their top GPUs released recently.

Personally I would have never thought a device like the RT5X would have sold so quickly at that price. Its unbelievable. Its already a super niche fucking product, way more niche than most PC hardware. If Mike had projected this he could have easily launched at $299 and made himself an extra $40,000 no sweat in maybe 10 minutes. People are just fucking swimming in disposable money right now, apparently.


I mean, I picked it up purely because it does things my Framemeister cannot do and I'm in a position to spend 275 plus tax on it because I've done literally nothing other than work for the past year due to COVID.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:18 pm 


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Quote:

I mean, I picked it up purely because it does things my Framemeister cannot do and I'm in a position to spend 275 plus tax on it because I've done literally nothing other than work for the past year due to COVID.


Yeah, Im not trying to be an ass, just pointing out what is happening. I need to stop with the profanity, I do it even when Im not pissed, its a problem I need to work on. :? I did the same, didnt miss a day of work until I actually contracted COVID, and then I was only out for 5 days then. Ive spent a good deal on all kinds of things in the past year too.

If you are in the US, they are paying many people more money to stay home and draw unemployment than they were making at their previous jobs. Its dangerous, and its raising the prices and hurting the availability of everything, but I digress...


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:22 pm 


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Bob just finished a live interview with Mike about the 5x. One thing I didnt hear, and maybe I missed it, but Mike can you share any plans for new features/options/fixes you are working on or plan to worko on for future firmware updates?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:25 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 159
My brain is so fried atm, I don't even know how the the RT5X works internally anymore. :shock:

But seriously, number 1 is various compatibility fixes like AES, modes like GBI 360p, PSP, etc., then we'll take it from there. I'm always a bit hesitant to list anything firm until I know it works but I'll definitely gather feedback and see what's possible, highest priority.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:22 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is why line-doubling 720p to 1440p isn’t present given 1440p is supported otherwise. Is it because 720p is input chroma limited, or would it just exceed available resources since full frames aren’t maintained in memory?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:31 pm 


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mikechi2 wrote:
My brain is so fried atm, I don't even know how the the RT5X works internally anymore. :shock:

But seriously, number 1 is various compatibility fixes like AES, modes like GBI 360p, PSP, etc., then we'll take it from there. I'm always a bit hesitant to list anything firm until I know it works but I'll definitely gather feedback and see what's possible, highest priority.


lol I understand! :mrgreen:

Im guessing the whole FPGA setup allows for so much more freedom / leeway for squashing bugs and adding features through firmware than custom-built scaler ICs do. Its great that you plan to support it in this way.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:51 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 159
Josh128 wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:
My brain is so fried atm, I don't even know how the the RT5X works internally anymore. :shock:

But seriously, number 1 is various compatibility fixes like AES, modes like GBI 360p, PSP, etc., then we'll take it from there. I'm always a bit hesitant to list anything firm until I know it works but I'll definitely gather feedback and see what's possible, highest priority.


lol I understand! :mrgreen:

Im guessing the whole FPGA setup allows for so much more freedom / leeway for squashing bugs and adding features through firmware than custom-built scaler ICs do. Its great that you plan to support it in this way.


Haha yup! There's a lot more freedom still possible with the FPGA, but it is a double edged sword. Takes longer to make things happen, so thanks in advance for your patience :)

anexanhume wrote:
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is why line-doubling 720p to 1440p isn’t present given 1440p is supported otherwise. Is it because 720p is input chroma limited, or would it just exceed available resources since full frames aren’t maintained in memory?


The scaler can output "anamorphic" 1920 x 1440p output from 720p (pretty much all TVs can stretch it back to 16:9, assuming they accept the mode to begin with). I guess I always thought modern devices do a good enough job scaling modern content, so it wasn't high on the launch list. Same reason why I left out 720p -> 1080p/1200p The mode can be added if there's enough interest with a modest amount of work.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:18 am 



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 421
Location: USA
Got mine today.

Yeah, this thing is really good. I haven't had that much time to tinker with it, but I've been trying out arcade boards on it through an HAS, and the results have been great. One of the issues I had with the OSSC is that it was suuuuuuper inconsistent depending on your display. Some games would work, others wouldn't. I have to turn triple buffering on, but the Retrotink's spitting out an image on every game I test. Which is a much appreciated change of pace. Phew.

That said, I am running into an issue with Guardians (Denjin Makai II) where the game has some screen tearing in the bottom quarter of the screen. This game tends to be pretty finnicky for a lot of displays, so I'm not surprised, but yeah - might warrant some investigation. The problem seems to go away with certain H sampling settings, but the screen tearing appears consistently in generic 4:3.

Edit: Just tried F-Zero GX on my Gamecube through component cables. Dear God, I had no idea the Gamecube could look this good, and I'm not exaggerating. Mike Chi, you beautiful bastard.

Can't wait for my PS2 HD Retrovision cables to get here. I've wanted to get back to playing Gen 6 systems for so long.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
mikechi2 wrote:
anexanhume wrote:
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is why line-doubling 720p to 1440p isn’t present given 1440p is supported otherwise. Is it because 720p is input chroma limited, or would it just exceed available resources since full frames aren’t maintained in memory?


The scaler can output "anamorphic" 1920 x 1440p output from 720p (pretty much all TVs can stretch it back to 16:9, assuming they accept the mode to begin with). I guess I always thought modern devices do a good enough job scaling modern content, so it wasn't high on the launch list. Same reason why I left out 720p -> 1080p/1200p The mode can be added if there's enough interest with a modest amount of work.

That explanation makes perfect sense to me, so I see why it wasn’t a priority.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:04 am 



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 10
mikechi2 wrote:
anexanhume wrote:
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is why line-doubling 720p to 1440p isn’t present given 1440p is supported otherwise. Is it because 720p is input chroma limited, or would it just exceed available resources since full frames aren’t maintained in memory?


The scaler can output "anamorphic" 1920 x 1440p output from 720p (pretty much all TVs can stretch it back to 16:9, assuming they accept the mode to begin with). I guess I always thought modern devices do a good enough job scaling modern content, so it wasn't high on the launch list. Same reason why I left out 720p -> 1080p/1200p The mode can be added if there's enough interest with a modest amount of work.


I can't really complain about this being considered niche, because I know it is, but I'll throw my two cents in and say 720p -> 1080p or 720p -> 1440p or both would certainly be useful for me. And I'd be curious if it's possible to output a 1920x1440 image but with the sides cropped off of the original 720p image (useful for 4:3 content), rather than squishing and later stretching an anamorphic image unnecessarily.

A 720p source doesn't inherently mean the source is modern/3D games. I prefer to use an original Xbox as my emulation box, I really like that it maintains the console experience in that it behaves like a purpose built machine that "just works," everything is accessible through the controller, etc. compared to running emulators on PC. Only issue is the Xbox maxes out at 720p (or 1080i). 720p upscaled on a 4K TV looks okay for retro games, I'm the type that prefers sharp pixels, and it's noticeably blurrier with the TV doing the scaling, but it's right on the edge of acceptable for me. I just turn on scanlines and pretend the slight sharpness loss is like a CRT filter. It's true that 480p is also available on the original Xbox, and that can be upscaled with the 5X, but the problem there is that it limits the amount of scaling factors that are usable within the Xbox emulators. For example, the GB/C resolution can only be integer scaled 3x in 480p to 480x432 leaving some borders compared to a perfect 5x to 720p. Then when 480p is integer scaled to 1080p it adds another border on top of that.

Hope this doesn't come off as whiny, I'm just a stickler for sharp pixels and integer scaling. Patiently waiting for my 5X to arrive to try out all the different modes. I know it will be great for what it is designed to do, and I'll look forward to the PixelFX Morph for some of the these advanced niche uses.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:57 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
AyeYoYoYO wrote:
Apparently it’s fastest operation is down around 2ms, and slowest at 17ms, per RetroRGB.
Which is still significantly slower than a RetroTink2x + MCable gaming edition which combined are under 1ms.


I'm guessing that it's because the polyphase scaling algorithm is simply slower than integer scaling. I'd then wonder if choosing the integer mode is only adjusting the aspect ratio/panning, but still using the same polyphase algorithm.

I'm also guessing that no reviewer has lag tested the 5X in 2X mode, which again would reveal if the latter actually uses an integer algorithm instead of the polyphase one, so that the 5X in 2X mode would be as fast as the 2X-Pro/Classic/M.
This sounds extremely likely to be the reason. Thank you, Fernan!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:19 am 



Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 64
Scaling of 720p to 4K on modern TVs is usually not very good for video games. 1080p or higher provide noticeably better results.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:06 pm 


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Location: Northern California
shroom2k wrote:
Scaling of 720p to 4K on modern TVs is usually not very good for video games. 1080p or higher provide noticeably better results.


This has been my observation as well. In an ideal world, TV's would have an integer scale setting and 720p would scale perfectly in to 2160p. The reality ends up being that manufacturers spend more time perfecting 1080p to 2160p and 720p ends up neglected and very soft.

maxtherabbit wrote:
I briefly owned a behar bros Akura. The build quality wasn't super high but it didn't seem like a complete piece of shit. I got rid of it because it sampled 480p @ 800px/line. Which is fucking retarded on a product designed specifically for the Dreamcast which outputs DTV spec 480p (858px/line). Needless to say it had horrible jailbars because of the sampling error.

Seems like they just used a COTS VGA digitizer solution that was designed for VESA 640x480.


It's hard to believe, but the Akura used to go for double or even triple the price on Ebay in between the manufacturering waves. People were so hungry for a plug and play solution for their modern TV's.


Last edited by Gara on Thu May 06, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:16 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Look at retro game prices the past 2 or 3 months and see that collecting might as well be over.


What does that mean?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:44 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
From what we gather here, Mike had at least 1500-2000 units for sale. At $275 a pop, its understandable he didnt foresee them selling out in 5 minutes. So you shouldnt hold that against the man. Thats probably more units than AMD or Nvidia initially had for sale of their top GPUs released recently.

Personally I would have never thought a device like the RT5X would have sold so quickly at that price. Its unbelievable. Its already a super niche fucking product, way more niche than most PC hardware. If Mike had projected this he could have easily launched at $299 and made himself an extra $40,000 no sweat in maybe 10 minutes. People are just fucking swimming in disposable money right now, apparently.


I was not surprised at all, but I'm kind of surprised you all were! I was geared up in fast ordering mode because I anticipated they'd sell out in minutes, no matter how chill people seemed about it.
Black Dog Tech regularly sells-out products that are far more niche than this device (given they only work on a single console and require heavy DIY skills or sending off a console to be modded).

I've mentioned the Framemeister second hand market on here a few times recently, but I don't think people here pay attention to it. I put mine on eBay in March used, in-box with the English remote overlay, euroscart adapter, d-terminal adapter, and everything it came with, buy it now for $700 and it sold and I had payment within 24hrs.
Yes, the US money supply is crazy right now and we can attribute inflated prices in this area to that, but we are talking almost double the money I spent on this stuff 7-8 years ago. The cables for this stuff are selling out fast too. All this points to the niche growing.
And there's the obvious: RetroRGB has 45K subscribers, then include the retro gaming twitter cliques on twitter all abuzz about this... there's a lot of word of mouth going on now with these "niche" products.
As for me, I'm taking all I cleared on selling that Framemeister and with another $100 or so, I'm buying the RT5X-Pro, the Morph, and the N64Digital. It's practically a no-brainer and with the enhanced feature sets of these devices I have lots of excuses I give myself to own all of it.

For at least as long as there are parts shortages, there will likely be scalpers in this market soon, unfortunately. I'm just glad Mike is limiting orders to 1 per person, otherwise it'd be impossible to get hands on these.

ldevereaux wrote:
What does that mean?


I think he means collecting is over because the prices are getting out of reach for anyone who isn't rich.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:52 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 649
Apologies if this is a silly question, but how does N64 look on this? On the 2x, I really enjoy the smoothing filter for N64 games specifically as I feel like they look kinda awful otherwise. If I'm not mistaken, the 5x doesn't have the smoothing filter, so I'm curious what sort of look it pulls off.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 2:06 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 724
darcagn wrote:
ldevereaux wrote:
What does that mean?


I think he means collecting is over because the prices are getting out of reach for anyone who isn't rich.


Oh yeah that makes more sense than whatever I was thinking!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 2:24 pm 



Joined: 12 Sep 2016
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darcagn wrote:
I think he means collecting is over because the prices are getting out of reach for anyone who isn't rich.


Maybe If people only want to collect Nintendo first party games, or get into NEOGEO lol. Otherwise I think prices have been somewhat fine considering what they have been for the past decade. Could always be better though.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:03 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 7256
Location: Bedford, UK
I get the impression most users on here are steam users, or have mods done to their older consoles and just rip all the games to an SD card for older consoles.

Well they still work with the Retrotink 5x.

Certain titles have gone up in the past year, simply because of the amount of youtubes reviewing older titles, car boot sale finds, garage sales in the USA etc.


On a separate note, are there any official distributors for the Retrotink 5x in the UK/EU? I read on twitter paypal isn't working for UK customers in regards to buying this product.

I have a feeling this will be a hard product to get for the rest of 2021, just simply because its what everyone has been waiting for. The OSSC was hard to get for ages.

Is there a preorder page up? Any idea on the amount of people waiting etc?
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:24 pm 


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Assuming that the same distributors sign up for the 5X, there should be the following official distributors:

US:
Mike himself
Castlemania Games
Stone Age Gamer
Videogamesnewyork

Canada:
Retrostuff Canada (disclaimer: this is me)

EU:
Videogame Perfection
Consoles4you


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:25 pm 



Joined: 12 Sep 2016
Posts: 10
neorichieb1971 wrote:
On a separate note, are there any official distributors for the Retrotink 5x in the UK/EU? I read on twitter paypal isn't working for UK customers in regards to buying this product.

I have a feeling this will be a hard product to get for the rest of 2021, just simply because its what everyone has been waiting for. The OSSC was hard to get for ages.

Is there a preorder page up? Any idea on the amount of people waiting etc?


There was UK support from the first batch (unless im mistaken?) but there was a Paypal error for people ordering from the UK. It was worked on and then a link went up for UK buyers separate from launch. (not 100% sure so if I'm wrong just let me know)

I think all units are sold out right now until (hopefully) June, but in June a bigger batch will be sold so hopefully no selling out in 7 minutes. I think everyone was surprised by that.

No pre-orders, just first come first serve on the retrotink website when they get refilled. Even though its a bigger batch, if you still really want one I would recommend trying to be their right when it goes live just in case.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:29 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 159
neorichieb1971 wrote:
I get the impression most users on here are steam users, or have mods done to their older consoles and just rip all the games to an SD card for older consoles.

Well they still work with the Retrotink 5x.

Certain titles have gone up in the past year, simply because of the amount of youtubes reviewing older titles, car boot sale finds, garage sales in the USA etc.


On a separate note, are there any official distributors for the Retrotink 5x in the UK/EU? I read on twitter paypal isn't working for UK customers in regards to buying this product.

I have a feeling this will be a hard product to get for the rest of 2021, just simply because its what everyone has been waiting for. The OSSC was hard to get for ages.

Is there a preorder page up? Any idea on the amount of people waiting etc?


Paypal unfortunately decided to go down at the exact time we were going to launch. It was back up in an hour and we were able to off the units that we had held in reserve for the UK.

Larger batches are coming now and throughout the rest of the year, as we stocked up on components. Not sure how messy the June/July order will be, but our goal is to build enough quantity to have inventory ASAP.


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