DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev boards

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marqs
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

rthorntn wrote:Am I able to reserve a board from the first batch of preassembled boards?
Nrg wrote:I'm interested in 1x preassembled board aswell!
Orders for the first batch of boards should open up in 1-2 weeks at VGP if things go as planned.
Dexje wrote:would it be possible to connect a vga source with a vga to scart cable as the addon board only has a scart connector?
Yes, you could build a HD15-SCART passthru cable which routes HSYNC to SCART pin 12 and VSYNC to pin 10 (full schematic here). Perhaps some day we're able to offer such things pre-made if there's enough buyers to make production feasible. There are also existing VGA-SCART cables/adapters with sync combiner circuit that you could use.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by bonzo.bits »

Marqs, has 1080p > 1080i downscale been implemented? Cheers
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

bonzo.bits wrote:Marqs, has 1080p > 1080i downscale been implemented? Cheers
Progressive->interlace conversion has not been implemented yet but it's not a large task when higher-priority items have been completed. Unlike OSSC Pro, however, DExx-vd_isl does not officially support 1080p input due to HW limitations (110MHz specced ADC, pin header connection also not optimal for high bandwidth). I've still managed to get 1080p passthru running stable on a few boards but it's not something I want to advertise at this point.

Also a small update on availability: first batch of boards has arrived to VGP and should go on sale next week.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

The boards are now available and can be ordered here while stock lasts. Wikipage for the board is almost complete and additional documentation (such as how to enable SPDIF on DE10-Nano) will be added on project's git repository soon.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by Dexje »

thanks for the heads up.

Will the DExx support rotation as well? I cant find it on the feature list.
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marqs
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

Dexje wrote:Will the DExx support rotation as well? I cant find it on the feature list.
It's not implemented yet, but the HW is capable of rotating at least low/med res sources. With high-res sources memory bandwidth may become a bottleneck due to non-sequential DRAM read/write accesses.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by Dexje »

marqs wrote:
Dexje wrote:Will the DExx support rotation as well? I cant find it on the feature list.
It's not implemented yet, but the HW is capable of rotating at least low/med res sources. With high-res sources memory bandwidth may become a bottleneck due to non-sequential DRAM read/write accesses.
perfect - thanks for the quick reply!
i want to use the scaler for 15khz to 31khz, so that should be covered.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by jaffa225man »

marqs wrote:
Insert Disk Two wrote:Does this support:

- S-Video in
- 240p x5 on 1080p (cropped)
S-Video is not currently supported. 240p can be line-multiplied 4x or 5x into 1080p output or freely scaled using polyphase scaler.
I already have the Koryuu for the original OSSC, which has S-VIdeo input and component output, as you know. Your wiki page says that a passive adapter can be built to convert component/YPbPr (using Sync-On-Green) to the RGB SCART: https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... 28SCART.29. To build one, would I need a sync stripper to remove the Sync-On-Luma? Luma isn't truly the Green information for RGB either is it?. Are there other considerations I haven't even realized to build this interest-piqueing adaptor? Thanks! I think I can guess most of the pinout from the DExx-vd_isl full schematic you linked to before: https://github.com/marqs85/DExx-vd_isl/ ... _board.pdf

I'm very excited to receive my ordered board to minimize resolution-switching dropouts with only a frame of lag added to the already wonderful OSSC design. I really want to see the adaptive deinterlacing and smoothing for Saturn, N64, Gamecube, and PS2 also. When rotation is added, that will be fun to try, although I'm only planning on using it from an accurate MAME output VGA->RGB SCART adapter I built for a computer. (I know, that's so convoluted!). Thanks very much marqs, and I'm glad you're surviving through these trying times! :)
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marqs
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

jaffa225man wrote:I already have the Koryuu for the original OSSC, which has S-VIdeo input and component output, as you know. Your wiki page says that a passive adapter can be built to convert component/YPbPr (using Sync-On-Green) to the RGB SCART: https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... 28SCART.29. To build one, would I need a sync stripper to remove the Sync-On-Luma? Luma isn't truly the Green information for RGB either is it?. Are there other considerations I haven't even realized to build this interest-piqueing adaptor? Thanks! I think I can guess most of the pinout from the DExx-vd_isl full schematic you linked to before: https://github.com/marqs85/DExx-vd_isl/ ... _board.pdf
The wiki says you need a passthru adapter so there is no conversion within the adapter itself. It's hard to find those adapters these days, though. Especially ones with audio jacks. This one seems to be available from Amazon.de but some of the comments indicate it's wired incorrectly (or maybe some people have misunderstood its purpose).
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by kitty666cats »

marqs wrote:
jaffa225man wrote:I already have the Koryuu for the original OSSC, which has S-VIdeo input and component output, as you know. Your wiki page says that a passive adapter can be built to convert component/YPbPr (using Sync-On-Green) to the RGB SCART: https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... 28SCART.29. To build one, would I need a sync stripper to remove the Sync-On-Luma? Luma isn't truly the Green information for RGB either is it?. Are there other considerations I haven't even realized to build this interest-piqueing adaptor? Thanks! I think I can guess most of the pinout from the DExx-vd_isl full schematic you linked to before: https://github.com/marqs85/DExx-vd_isl/ ... _board.pdf
The wiki says you need a passthru adapter so there is no conversion within the adapter itself. It's hard to find those adapters these days, though. Especially ones with audio jacks. This one seems to be available from Amazon.de but some of the comments indicate it's wired incorrectly (or maybe some people have misunderstood its purpose).
It’s quite cumbersome, but you can successfully chain those with one of these:
Image
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by jaffa225man »

marqs wrote:The wiki says you need a passthru adapter so there is no conversion within the adapter itself. It's hard to find those adapters these days, though. Especially ones with audio jacks. This one seems to be available from Amazon.de but some of the comments indicate it's wired incorrectly (or maybe some people have misunderstood its purpose).
Thanks for responding so quickly! Yes, I misquoted the wiki, saying "passive" rather than "passthru" (as was written), so I'm sorry about that. And if I had read it properly, yes passthru does imply no conversion needs to be done, so thank you for correcting me! :) I'd rather build my own adapter to know it is wired properly and includes audio, but thanks for that link. It would be nice if there is a known-good source to purchase from, but as it is, I have cables I can splice to build it (probably not color-coded for the RCA cables, but I can tape Y, Pb, & Pr labels to them). On second thought, maybe I should just buy the adapter you suggested, and add the audio, since a review mentions that all the SCART pins are populated and can be rewired.

Sorry for this further question, but would a passthru adapter need any of the SCART Sync pins (SYNC_in, HS_in, & VS_in) connected, or being passthru, does it mean that the "Y" can be connected to the SCART's "G-In" while leaving all the Sync pins disconnected? For example, is it possible to have a functioning adapter by just connecting all GND pins in addition to R-In, G-In, B-In, AUD_L, and AUD_R? I wouldn't want to stop you from answering this to satisfy my curiosity, but it should now be a moot point since I decided to just buy the passthru adapter you suggested (with my intention to add two ports to it for audio).

Thanks again!
kitty666cats wrote: It’s quite cumbersome, but you can successfully chain those with one of these:
Spoiler
Image
I doubt this would work because marqs already stated that S-Video is not supported, but I would be wrong if that adapter does the passthru (and transcodes to RGB of any sort). It seems most likely that this adapter uses SCART pin 18 for its purposes. I know that's quite an assumption, but just seems likely without further evidence. Composite Video is supported on SCART connectors using pin 18, but pin 18 is connected to GND on the DExx-vd_isl schematic. Due to that, I don't think it would work with the DExx-vd_isl, or even with the original OSSC, but feel free to correct me. On the other hand, the Koryuu transcoder I already have, converts Composite Video and S-Video to Component Video (YPbPr) for the original OSSC, and since YPbPr is supported on the DExx-vd_isl with a passthru adapter, it's my understanding that the transoder makes adapting it possible (with a further passthru adapter, which is what I am asking about).
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marqs
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

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jaffa225man wrote:Sorry for this further question, but would a passthru adapter need any of the SCART Sync pins (SYNC_in, HS_in, & VS_in) connected, or being passthru, does it mean that the "Y" can be connected to the SCART's "G-In" while leaving all the Sync pins disconnected? For example, is it possible to have a functioning adapter by just connecting all GND pins in addition to R-In, G-In, B-In, AUD_L, and AUD_R? I wouldn't want to stop you from answering this to satisfy my curiosity, but it should now be a moot point since I decided to just buy the passthru adapter you suggested (with my intention to add two ports to it for audio).
Yes, you'd only need to connect R/G/B and L/R audio pins along with GND for YPbPr/SoG. I just sketched together an adapter PCB that might be something we could perpaps sell in kits if there's enough interest. Super-easy to assemble and would also work in OSSC Pro for anyone needing a second VGA, SCART or component input.

Image
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by kitty666cats »

jaffa225man wrote:
marqs wrote:The wiki says you need a passthru adapter so there is no conversion within the adapter itself. It's hard to find those adapters these days, though. Especially ones with audio jacks. This one seems to be available from Amazon.de but some of the comments indicate it's wired incorrectly (or maybe some people have misunderstood its purpose).
Thanks for responding so quickly! Yes, I misquoted the wiki, saying "passive" rather than "passthru" (as was written), so I'm sorry about that. And if I had read it properly, yes passthru does imply no conversion needs to be done, so thank you for correcting me! :) I'd rather build my own adapter to know it is wired properly and includes audio, but thanks for that link. It would be nice if there is a known-good source to purchase from, but as it is, I have cables I can splice to build it (probably not color-coded for the RCA cables, but I can tape Y, Pb, & Pr labels to them). On second thought, maybe I should just buy the adapter you suggested, and add the audio, since a review mentions that all the SCART pins are populated and can be rewired.

Sorry for this further question, but would a passthru adapter need any of the SCART Sync pins (SYNC_in, HS_in, & VS_in) connected, or being passthru, does it mean that the "Y" can be connected to the SCART's "G-In" while leaving all the Sync pins disconnected? For example, is it possible to have a functioning adapter by just connecting all GND pins in addition to R-In, G-In, B-In, AUD_L, and AUD_R? I wouldn't want to stop you from answering this to satisfy my curiosity, but it should now be a moot point since I decided to just buy the passthru adapter you suggested (with my intention to add two ports to it for audio).

Thanks again!
kitty666cats wrote: It’s quite cumbersome, but you can successfully chain those with one of these:
Spoiler
Image
I doubt this would work because marqs already stated that S-Video is not supported, but I would be wrong if that adapter does the passthru (and transcodes to RGB of any sort). It seems most likely that this adapter uses SCART pin 18 for its purposes. I know that's quite an assumption, but just seems likely without further evidence. Composite Video is supported on SCART connectors using pin 18, but pin 18 is connected to GND on the DExx-vd_isl schematic. Due to that, I don't think it would work with the DExx-vd_isl, or even with the original OSSC, but feel free to correct me. On the other hand, the Koryuu transcoder I already have, converts Composite Video and S-Video to Component Video (YPbPr) for the original OSSC, and since YPbPr is supported on the DExx-vd_isl with a passthru adapter, it's my understanding that the transoder makes adapting it possible (with a further passthru adapter, which is what I am asking about).
I simply meant that would work along with the adapter marqs posted for successfully embedding audio to an RGBS or RGsB signal and sending it the proper direction over SCART
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by jaffa225man »

marqs wrote:Yes, you'd only need to connect R/G/B and L/R audio pins along with GND for YPbPr/SoG. I just sketched together an adapter PCB that might be something we could perpaps sell in kits if there's enough interest. Super-easy to assemble and would also work in OSSC Pro for anyone needing a second VGA, SCART or component input.

Image
The image isn't showing for me, but the link to it works: http://www.infocult.com/m/ossc_pro/img/ ... dapter.png

Those words, and even better the schematic, are exactly what I was after! Thanks! Especially because you put VGA on there too, I imagine it would be a very popular kit.
kitty666cats wrote: I simply meant that would work along with the adapter marqs posted for successfully embedding audio to an RGBS or RGsB signal and sending it the proper direction over SCART
I'm sorry for misinterpreting that! I see, it would indeed. In that case, it's a great suggestion! :)
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by kitty666cats »

Also, those adapters are wired correctly marqs. The comments are from people who don’t know how to use it (not much of a surprise :P )
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by seanami »

For IR commands for the remote, is there a list of which ones it uses to work to use other programable remotes?
The OSSC Classic way to program it doesn't seem possible
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

seanami wrote:For IR commands for the remote, is there a list of which ones it uses to work to use other programable remotes?
The OSSC Classic way to program it doesn't seem possible
DExx-vd_isl wikipage has a list of used keys and there is another page which lists IR codes for pre-programmed L336 (DExx-vd_isl uses OSSC mode, so most match Yamaha DVD/AVR and Toshiba TV).

Custom remote control support will be added at the same time as profile save/load feature. I'm trying to get those done by the end of this week as they were supposed to be already implemented by the time of release.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by Dexje »

marqs wrote:
Dexje wrote:Will the DExx support rotation as well? I cant find it on the feature list.
It's not implemented yet, but the HW is capable of rotating at least low/med res sources. With high-res sources memory bandwidth may become a bottleneck due to non-sequential DRAM read/write accesses.
is there any development timeline / roadmap for major features like rotation? so when is it expected to be available?
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by orange808 »

Dexje wrote: is there any development timeline / roadmap for major features like rotation? so when is it expected to be available?
Seems to be two threads of parallel discussions.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=65892&start=1710

marqs said:
Design of custom framebuffer IP to enable rotation, screenshots and lower latency in scaler mode is one on the next things on todo. I should be able to start working on it after summer.
We apologise for the inconvenience
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by emmeka »

This might be a dumb question, but, as someone who's never messed around with FPGA/MiSTer - is it possible to use the DExx with an analog I/O board as well? That plus (eventually) rotation for tate would make it an absolutely ideal scaler.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

emmeka wrote:This might be a dumb question, but, as someone who's never messed around with FPGA/MiSTer - is it possible to use the DExx with an analog I/O board as well? That plus (eventually) rotation for tate would make it an absolutely ideal scaler.
Yes, it should be possible to add support for VGA output using MiSTer I/O board.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

marqs wrote:
jaffa225man wrote:Sorry for this further question, but would a passthru adapter need any of the SCART Sync pins (SYNC_in, HS_in, & VS_in) connected, or being passthru, does it mean that the "Y" can be connected to the SCART's "G-In" while leaving all the Sync pins disconnected? For example, is it possible to have a functioning adapter by just connecting all GND pins in addition to R-In, G-In, B-In, AUD_L, and AUD_R? I wouldn't want to stop you from answering this to satisfy my curiosity, but it should now be a moot point since I decided to just buy the passthru adapter you suggested (with my intention to add two ports to it for audio).
Yes, you'd only need to connect R/G/B and L/R audio pins along with GND for YPbPr/SoG. I just sketched together an adapter PCB that might be something we could perpaps sell in kits if there's enough interest. Super-easy to assemble and would also work in OSSC Pro for anyone needing a second VGA, SCART or component input.

Image
Design files for the adapter are now here.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

marqs wrote:
emmeka wrote:This might be a dumb question, but, as someone who's never messed around with FPGA/MiSTer - is it possible to use the DExx with an analog I/O board as well? That plus (eventually) rotation for tate would make it an absolutely ideal scaler.
Yes, it should be possible to add support for VGA output using MiSTer I/O board.
Actually the I/O board might physically collide with DExx IR transmitter, perhaps someone with both boards could check.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by bonzo.bits »

marqs wrote:Actually the I/O board might physically collide with DExx IR transmitter, perhaps someone with both boards could check.
The IR receiver is in the way. There is also another problem where the jumper cable connects to the IO board / de10. The board I have (IO v 6.1) would need a redesign of the PCB in that section, as the current design doesn't allow for the jumper to be connected.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by sofakng »

Can the DExx be used to upscale CGA/EGA/VGA (MS-DOS PCs) to 1920x1440?

I'm not quite sure what I'm talking about, but I'd like to connect a retro DOS PC to my LCD monitor. (the LCD monitor supports 1920x1440p output from MiSTer so I'm assuming the DExx should be the same?)

I'm not quite sure about all the DOS resolutions though... ("mode x", "mode 13", 320x200@70Hz, etc)
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

sofakng wrote:Can the DExx be used to upscale CGA/EGA/VGA (MS-DOS PCs) to 1920x1440?

I'm not quite sure what I'm talking about, but I'd like to connect a retro DOS PC to my LCD monitor. (the LCD monitor supports 1920x1440p output from MiSTer so I'm assuming the DExx should be the same?)

I'm not quite sure about all the DOS resolutions though... ("mode x", "mode 13", 320x200@70Hz, etc)
The firmware currently has "VGA 640x350", "VGA 720x350", "VGA 640x400", "VGA 720x400" and "VESA 640x480" sampling presets for DOS PCs. They can be upscaled to 1920x1440 or 2560x1440 although officially support is up to 1920x1080p@60 due to limitations of HDMI transmitter and expansion board connection. I've managed to get 1440p outputs working pretty stable with a few tweaks (more on that later) so 1920x1440 @ 60/70Hz should be doable.
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by sofakng »

That sounds great!

Can I request you also add a preset for "VGA 320x200" (mode 13h) ?

Also, do you have new firmware I can download for the more stable 1440p output or is that still being developed? (you mentioned "more on that later")

Thanks again!
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by marqs »

sofakng wrote:Can I request you also add a preset for "VGA 320x200" (mode 13h) ?
VGA hardware doublescans such modes so respective output technically is 320x400, but it'd be possible to discard every other line and format it back to 320x200 for the processing pipeline.
sofakng wrote:Also, do you have new firmware I can download for the more stable 1440p output or is that still being developed? (you mentioned "more on that later")
The primary stability fix involves connecting (normally unconnected) GPIO pin 2 on DExx-vd_isl board to ground. GPIO tie-downs were removed from production board due to concerns that users might leave the card connected with some other firmware possibly driving 1 into that pin, potentially leading to reliability issues if left in such configuration for a long time. Another (although more minor) stability improvement on DE10-Nano seems to be connecting the card to GPIO1 as shown here with de10n_gpio1 firmware and longer audio jumper cable (Arduino IO next to GPIO1 cannot and must not be used).
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by sofakng »

Got it. Thanks so much!

Now I just need to wait a few weeks for my DExx video adapter PCBs to come in from JLCPCB. :(
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Re: DExx-vd_isl video digitizer add-on for Intel FPGA dev bo

Post by sofakng »

marqs wrote:The primary stability fix involves connecting (normally unconnected) GPIO pin 2 on DExx-vd_isl board to ground.
Can you confirm this is GPIO 2?
Image

It looks like the GPIO pins are numbered starting at 0.

Also, I've successfully connected my DOS VGA PC to the DExx but I'm having a few issues.

1) Adaptive Line Multiplier using Line 4x (1920x1440p) cuts off the image and the image is distorted. I've tried both the VGA 640x400 and VGA 720x400 presets.

2) Pure Line Multiplier has an almost perfect image, but it's still slightly cut-off and looks soft (ie. Line 3x Generic is only 1600x1200 resolution on my 1440p monitor)

3) Scaler image looks perfect but is very blurry.
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