Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

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Skykid
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Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

Wondering if anyone knows much about this. I have a relatively decent gaming PC and don't have any issues with Gamecube or PS2 emulation. My specs:

Windows 10
Intel i3-9100F 3.6GHZ
64 Bit OS
Graphics: Radeon RX550 series
RAM: 8GB

I've tried running xm6 pro-68k and the framerate is choppy for some reason. I've tried messing with video settings to no avail. Music is perfect and this emulator seems to skip certain screens (like the sound options at the start of Akumajo Dracula and some others).

I got irritated with it not working right so tried running Win68k High Speed 0.95, and it's buggy and weird. As soon as I try to click options (for example, to load a rom) the search menu glitches out and a lot of the information is hidden until you hover over it. I'm able to start a game and either the sound is weird, or the game seems to run ok for a few seconds before jerking horribly like it's playing catchup.

I don't think I have a hardware problem running this stuff so I was hoping someone could shed some light on it. I've heard MAME can also do X68k emulation but I'd prefer something independent (and I don't really know how it works in MAME).

Thank you for your insight.
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Sirotaca
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Sirotaca »

It's worth keeping in mind that the X68000's normal refresh rate is 55 Hz, so if you're running it on a 60 Hz monitor with v-sync it will never really be smooth.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

First you need to learn more about the computer. When Dracula boots up it will look for a MIDI interface. If none is found, no music select. So first you have to tell the emulator that you want a it to emulate a MIDI interface too.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

Sirotaca wrote:It's worth keeping in mind that the X68000's normal refresh rate is 55 Hz, so if you're running it on a 60 Hz monitor with v-sync it will never really be smooth.
That's true, but this kind of jerkiness is a bit more pronounced than not being smooth. On one emulator (Win68k high speed) it's far smoother until it almost slows right down and then rubber bands every 5 seconds. On Pro-68k it's just jerky throughout, but consistent.

And I should note, on Win68k that even the interface is buggy. I've seen videos and can't find anyone else with the problem. But as I said, when going into the menus just to load an image, the menus are all messed up with dissapearing text until you hover on it. And I've tried several versions and fresh installs and it's the same.

I can't figure out the issue.
SuperDeadite wrote:First you need to learn more about the computer. When Dracula boots up it will look for a MIDI interface. If none is found, no music select. So first you have to tell the emulator that you want a it to emulate a MIDI interface too.
Yes, I know this from owning CV Chronicles, but on Pro-68k emulator you're never given the option, but it sounds incredible. On Win68k HS it gives you the option, but since it's in Japanese I'm not sure which to select.

There are a lot of emulator settings for each and I was hoping someone could give me their layout to try.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

So, on XM6 Dracula's MIDI selection screen never shows up right? It just loads the game with internal FM right? That means the emulator is running the computer without a MIDI I/O board installed, so the game does not give you the option screen. Sounds like you're Win68K High Speed already has MIDI I/O board "installed", so the game does give you the option.

I use Win68K High Speed myself, but I only use it for file management and testing, as I play on real machine. Also I run Win7, so I can't help you so much with emulator specific problems.

As for the options themselves:
1. = Internal (FM+ADPCM)
2. = LA Synth (MT-32, CM-32L, CM-64, CM-500 Mode B)
3. = GS Synth (SC-55, and compatibles)
4. = GM (Hidden, hold XF1 and push G on keyboard) : Note this is hidden for a reason as it was never really finished. Only works properly on truly "pure GM" modules. (I have over a dozen modules, and only 2 of them are compatible...)
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

SuperDeadite wrote:So, on XM6 Dracula's MIDI selection screen never shows up right? It just loads the game with internal FM right? That means the emulator is running the computer without a MIDI I/O board installed, so the game does not give you the option screen. Sounds like you're Win68K High Speed already has MIDI I/O board "installed", so the game does give you the option.

I use Win68K High Speed myself, but I only use it for file management and testing, as I play on real machine. Also I run Win7, so I can't help you so much with emulator specific problems.

As for the options themselves:
1. = Internal (FM+ADPCM)
2. = LA Synth (MT-32, CM-32L, CM-64, CM-500 Mode B)
3. = GS Synth (SC-55, and compatibles)
4. = GM (Hidden, hold XF1 and push G on keyboard) : Note this is hidden for a reason as it was never really finished. Only works properly on truly "pure GM" modules. (I have over a dozen modules, and only 2 of them are compatible...)
Hey, appreciate that. I'll give those options a spin and see if ti makes any difference.

However, I've spent a while looking about and downloaded a third emulator, which seems to be a translated and updated fork of the XM6 emulator called "XM6 Type-G" and this is altogether more robust. The stuttering scrolling issues are almost completely non-existent except for a very mild bounce that is barely noticable unless you inspect the backgrounds on scroll. Otherwise it's as smooth as butter and has a much better fullscreen default that doesnt stretch the screen to the extremities. I'm really happy with this, however I should note that once again, no sound options appear on Dracula, so it's basically the same setup as before. But I swear it's running at the peak sound option, because I know the music differences on Dracula and it's certainly not the lower option.
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SuperDeadite
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

For the MIDI selection screen to appear in Dracula, you must enable MIDI by enabling it with ID1. If set to None, Dracula will never give you the option. MIDI was an optional addon. No x68000 came with it.

Image


Finally, all options besides the internal will only work if you have either real MIDI modules, or install MIDI emulation drivers like MUNT for LA synth.

Chronicals has pre-recorded versions of the MIDI on its CD, the real game tells a MIDI module what to play on the fly in real time.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

Hey, yeah I found those settings and enabled them exactly as you did, and as I expected the other two options that come up are vastly inferior to the one that was playing when I didn't have the options checked (or indeed the option to choose the various audio settings within Dracula). The arrangements are quite unusual on the alternate options. Which do you recommend (just to make sure I'm doing it right).

(As an aside I found 2 separate VSYNC options within different sections of the options menu, and checked them both, and now the emulation is clean as a whistle. Smoother than smooth).
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

The other options are MIDI. I assume you have no real MIDI modules right? In that case you need to use some kind of software synth or emulator. For LA, MUNT is really the only option.

Here is my old vid of the real deal:
https://youtu.be/GO2E4U3pkuM
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

SuperDeadite wrote:The other options are MIDI. I assume you have no real MIDI modules right? In that case you need to use some kind of software synth or emulator. For LA, MUNT is really the only option.

Here is my old vid of the real deal:
https://youtu.be/GO2E4U3pkuM
Yeah that sounds great. Definitely the same arrangement as when I choose LA but far superior. I’ll look for MUNT and try to get it set up. I love the FM though: I think I prefer the Vanpire Killer arrangement there overall. But I’m curious to run the different OST options through on actual X68K emulation; it feels cleaner to play than Chronicles somehow.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

Chronicals isn't a port, it's a recreation and it has issues. Hitboxes, resolution, and speed are off. It's quite a lot harder then the real deal because of this.

LA synth is a unique technology, MUNT is the only emulater that can handle it.

GS is a simpler "rompler" tech, and lots of software synths will work fine. Though a real Roland VST would be the most legit sounding.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

SuperDeadite wrote:Chronicals isn't a port, it's a recreation and it has issues. Hitboxes, resolution, and speed are off. It's quite a lot harder then the real deal because of this.

LA synth is a unique technology, MUNT is the only emulater that can handle it.

GS is a simpler "rompler" tech, and lots of software synths will work fine. Though a real Roland VST would be the most legit sounding.
Really appreciate your help here. Managed to get MUNT installed and running, and LA sounds fantastic now. Very nice to be able to properly enable the option.

Regarding Chronicles, you're dead right. You can feel the difference in everything you specified, especially the difficulty. I used to find original mode on the PS to be very taxing, but on X68K I made a huge amount of headway on my first attempt. I suppose Chronicles is only really worth revisiting for the arrange mode now.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by BONKERS »

Never knew that CV:C was harder than the real deal on OG mode. Is there a resource somewhere that points out the exact differences? I've never had too much trouble with CV:C other than it being hard as balls in general...don't ask me to be able to complete sequential runs though lol.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

X68k runs at double the resolution (31khz) and slower speed (55htz). PS1 runs too fast (She-Wolf is a really fun fight on x68k, pure luck on ps1). Game is not a true port so hitboxes are all over the place... On real deal I can get yo loop 6 without stress. I've never cleared loop 1 on ps1, and I bought it on launch day, long before I knew what an X68k even was.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

SuperDeadite wrote:X68k runs at double the resolution (31khz) and slower speed (55htz). PS1 runs too fast (She-Wolf is a really fun fight on x68k, pure luck on ps1). Game is not a true port so hitboxes are all over the place... On real deal I can get yo loop 6 without stress. I've never cleared loop 1 on ps1, and I bought it on launch day, long before I knew what an X68k even was.
I couldn’t clear the first loop on the PS1 either, did my head in. And you’re right about wonky hitboxes, I feel like I can manoeuvre better on X68K.

I did actually know what an X68K was when Chronicles came out but I had a thing about avoiding emulation for something I wanted to get. But I could never land an actual machine. Now I’m kind of regretting the hours I put into Chronicles!
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by copy-paster »

Have you try XM6 Type-G? this one is solid emulator and runs great on potatoes.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

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copy-paster wrote:Have you try XM6 Type-G? this one is solid emulator and runs great on potatoes.
That’s what I’m using.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

It's funny, for years whenever this game comes up on forums here I always bring up Chronicals issues. Yet, there are always people who simply refuse to even try the real deal. Claiming that Chronicals is good enough.
Even though these same people will spend hours bitching that slowdown isn't perfect on their favorite Cave shootie. Probably because emulating an exotic computer takes a little time to learn. Lol.

The arrange mode in Japanese Chronicals is also borked. There is a bug where the CD audio will randomly stop playing. Making the whole disc worthless. This bug was fixed for the USA and PAL versions though.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by BONKERS »

SuperDeadite wrote:X68k runs at double the resolution (31khz) and slower speed (55htz). PS1 runs too fast (She-Wolf is a really fun fight on x68k, pure luck on ps1). Game is not a true port so hitboxes are all over the place... On real deal I can get yo loop 6 without stress. I've never cleared loop 1 on ps1, and I bought it on launch day, long before I knew what an X68k even was.
Interesting. Never had an opportunity to play the original, always assumed it was just hard as balls to begin with. I've beaten both OG and Arranged mode quite a few times but only ever loop 1 as it just was too much after that haha. Next time guess i'll have to try emulating the original on a VGA CRT instead.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

Should work, Dracula actually runs at 512x512, probably one of the main reasons hitboxes were hard to recreate on ps1. X68000 is more of a floppy fed arcade pcb than a traditional computer.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by Skykid »

Out of interest which other X68K titles have LA audio options?
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

First off:
1. There are basically "4 levels" of LA Synth: MT-32, CM-32L, CM-64 (CM-32L + CM-32P), CM-64 + SN-U110 PCM Expansion Cards
2. While many games are happy with a base MT-32, many use the extra features of the 32L and 64.
3. MUNT is able to emulate MT-32 and CM-32L (if you have the right ROMS), however CM-64 has no emulation and requires a real module still.
4. Every game is different. Many actually mix both MIDI and FM at the same time for music requiring manual mixing and balancing.
5. Games "activate" their MIDI options in totally random ways, some do it in options, other require you to hold down special keys while the game boots.

And, here's a list of games off the top of my head, not complete:

Afterburner (unofficial patch)
Motos
Parodiusda
Gradius 2
Detana Twinbee
Akumajou Dracula
Granada
Sol-Feace
Phalanx
Final Fight
Nemesis '90 Kai
Neural Gear
Metal Sight
Atomic Robo Kid
Gemini Wing
Arcus Odyssey
Star Luster
Genocide 2
Overtake
Super Hangon
Thunder Blade
Be Rain
Ku2
Illusion City
Choujin
Sion II
Garou Densetsu 2
Garou Densetsu Special
Die Bahnwelt
Group X
Croissant
Moon Crystal
AMS
Xenon 2

Quality wise, really depends on the game. In the early days games such as Thunder Blade kept arrangements rather simple, as it was more about utilizing 16bit CD quality MIDI over "noisy FM," (this was a big deal in those years). While other games such as Gemini Wing went all out with mind-blowing remixes making them far more fun then the arcade originals.

Let me know if you have any questions. The amount of games that utilize Roland GS (SC-55) is even larger iirc.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by NightSprinter »

Unrelated to the MIDI discussion, years ago via EX68 in Windows 98, I somehow got the X68k version of Pac-Mania to go into its service menu (select lives and such). I haven't been able to ever since. What on my keyboard do I need to press to enter it? I know F8 configures the controls.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

NightSprinter wrote:Unrelated to the MIDI discussion, years ago via EX68 in Windows 98, I somehow got the X68k version of Pac-Mania to go into its service menu (select lives and such). I haven't been able to ever since. What on my keyboard do I need to press to enter it? I know F8 configures the controls.
Not a fan of it, so I don't know off hand. But probably one of the F keys. You often have to hold during boot. Could also be one of the exotic x68k only keys that other systems don't have.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by AAA »

Resurrecting this thread

Using MIDI modules and XM6 Type G - I have a problem/query.

I have no problem with sending MIDI message data from the emulator (being run on a Win 11 PC) to my MIDI module - then for the MIDI module to send its blend of music to my receiver (then on to my speakers, then my ears). The music sounds good.

Only trouble is that it's just the music I'm getting, nothing from the audio 'hardware' of the X68K itself - naturally, because the MIDI module is outputting to a different input on my receiver, to the input on the receiver that my PC is connected to.

To stop me from spending loads on hardware etc. - is it feasible to send the data from the MIDI module back to the emulator/PC, for the emulator to then blend with the rest of the audio from the game, that can then be output as one mixed signal?
If so would getting something like the Roland UM-ONE cable/interface, serve my needs?

Thanks
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

If your pc has analog audio input, you should be able to feed the MIDI audio into the pc and adjust volume levels via windows audio mixer. No idea about Win11 though. But doing so you will be converting analog to digital to analog again. So if you want to hear your modules at their best, an external mixer is better.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by AAA »

Thanks for the reply on this.
Thinking to bite the bullet then and just get a mixer.
Do you know of any mixers that can handle;
INPUTS:
1) optical digital audio (from PC [in the case of X68K emulation this would be sound effects plus whatever else would be output from the X68K audio 'hardware'])
2) optical digital audio (from MU2000EX)
3) analogue stereo audio (from, say, a CM-64)

To then output mixed stream of either 1)+2), or 1)+3), via optical digital out?
Finding it a bit of a minefield out there.
Thanks again.
Last edited by AAA on Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

AAA wrote:Thanks for the reply on this.
Thinking to bite the bullet then and just get a mixer.
Do you know of any mixers that can handle;
INPUTS:
1) optical digital audio (from PC [in the case of X68K emulation this would be sound effects plus whatever else would be output from the X68K audio hardware])
2) optical digital audio (from MU2000EX)
3) analogue stereo audio (from, say, a CM-64)

To then output mixed stream of either 1)+2), or 1)+3), via optical digital out?
Finding it a bit of a minefield out there.
Thanks again.
I use Yamaha UW500 myself. It can take digital audio input by USB and toslink at the same time. It can also mix in analog with digital if you use the aux inputs. But doing so, you have to use the analog output. Not an issue imo, as it's 10bit DAC is good enough for 20 year old modules. It was even bundled with MU2000 back in its day. It also serves as USB MIDI interface at the same time. Drivers support Win10. No idea on Win11...
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by AAA »

Thanks very much.
How should UW500 be set up in Windows in order for such mixing to work? (ignore that I'm on Win 11 for now)
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Re: Trouble with X68k emulation in Windows 10

Post by SuperDeadite »

AAA wrote:Thanks very much.
How should UW500 be set up in Windows in order for such mixing to work? (ignore that I'm on Win 11 for now)
It's a standard USB audio device. Just install the driver, and it will show up as audio output/recording device in the audio settings. Then select it as your output device (You can use it to input/mix/record as well). If you set it as the default audio device, Windows will auto switch to it when it's turned on. So when turned off it will revert to HDMI audio or whatever else you have.

It's also a full MIDI interface at the same time. If you get a Yamaha style TOHOST (serial) cable, you can connect MU2000 there, and CM-64 to the standard MIDI output. So you can do everything through just one USB port.
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