Should I sell my framemeister for a more current upscaler?

[mrwasi]

So, for years I've had an XRGB-Framemeister. It's a good product but a pain in the arse to set up. Especially if you move the unit from TV to TV.

I was curious about all the newer upscalers (OSSC, Retrotink, Rad2x) and if it'll be worthwhile to sell the framemeister and get another (hopefully easier) product.

I'll mainly be playing NES(composite)/SNES(s-video)/N64(s-video)/Genesis(component)/PSX(s-video)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[SavagePencil]

Had you mentioned you were on the SCART/RGB train, I would've recommended the OSSC. Given that you're on Composite, S-Video, and Component, it probably makes sense to get a Retrotink 2X-Pro. It's cheap, plug and play, no lag, and doesn't require all the setup headaches that the FM has.

[mrwasi]

Had you mentioned you were on the SCART/RGB train, I would've recommended the OSSC. Given that you're on Composite, S-Video, and Component, it probably makes sense to get a Retrotink 2X-Pro. It's cheap, plug and play, no lag, and doesn't require all the setup headaches that the FM has.

Great! Thanks.
Yes I live in Canada so SCART is a little pricey to some by.

[nmalinoski]

I was curious about all the newer upscalers (OSSC, Retrotink, Rad2x)

None of these are scalers, per se; specifically, they're line-multipliers, meaning they're only able to output multiples of the input and have no capability to perform transformations like rotation, scaling any input to any output, adjusting framerate, or deinterlacing (beyond bob-deinterlacing). These are all good products for their intended purposes, but none quite has the capability of the Framemeister.

The OSSC Pro should be a worthy replacement for the Framemeister, but it's not quite ready for release just yet.

[neorichieb1971]

I bought the Rad2x which is based on retrotink and it didn't impress me.

I am pretty sure the Framemeister has better quality. If you want to surrender that for ease of use thats your choice.

[mrwasi]

I was curious about all the newer upscalers (OSSC, Retrotink, Rad2x)

None of these are scalers, per se; specifically, they're line-multipliers, meaning they're only able to output multiples of the input and have no capability to perform transformations like rotation, scaling any input to any output, adjusting framerate, or deinterlacing (beyond bob-deinterlacing). These are all good products for their intended purposes, but none quite has the capability of the Framemeister.

The OSSC Pro should be a worthy replacement for the Framemeister, but it's not quite ready for release just yet.

OK Good to know!
Maybe I shouldn't jump ship with the Framemeister just yet....

I may purchase a retrotink and compare the 2 to see if it's worth keeping one, or both.

[mrwasi]

I bought the Rad2x which is based on retrotink and it didn't impress me.

I am pretty sure the Framemeister has better quality. If you want to surrender that for ease of use thats your choice.

Thanks for the input on the Rad2x. That was also on my list as well, but you can't tell the quality based on youtube videos....

[nmalinoski]

I may purchase a retrotink and compare the 2 to see if it's worth keeping one, or both.

I think the RetroTINK products are aimed more at the simply-get-it-working crowd, who more generally just want to play their old consoles on newer TVs with good-enough quality. They can only line-double 15kHz video to 480p, though one or two of the latest models will allow for 480p and/or 720p passthrough; so I'm not convinced that they're going to appeal to the same target audience as the Framemeister or OSSC Pro.

That said, it's a good product, and far better than any of the very-low-end cables produced by companies like Pound. If you have a use case for one, absolutely get it, but I don't believe it will meet or exceed the capability or quality of your Framemeister.

[mrwasi]

I may purchase a retrotink and compare the 2 to see if it's worth keeping one, or both.

I think the RetroTINK products are aimed more at the simply-get-it-working crowd, who more generally just want to play their old consoles on newer TVs with good-enough quality. They can only line-double 15kHz video to 480p, though one or two of the latest models will allow for 480p and/or 720p passthrough; so I'm not convinced that they're going to appeal to the same target audience as the Framemeister or OSSC Pro.

That said, it's a good product, and far better than any of the very-low-end cables produced by companies like Pound. If you have a use case for one, absolutely get it, but I don't believe it will meet or exceed the capability or quality of your Framemeister.

Then it seems I'll hold on to the Framemeister for now until a future product can supersede it.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[neorichieb1971]

I would recommend waiting for a 720p plug and play solution.

In the world of 4k it can't be too far away.

[Austin]

The initial update to get English menus aside, what's so difficult about the FM? You don't even need to tinker with it to get a decent picture. It does have a lot of options if you want to experiment, but if you're a "set it and forget it" kind of guy, it's great for that too. Just set your HDMI output resolution to 720p or 1080p, Image Mode to Natural (480i) or Picture (240p), and then you're pretty much good to go. Downgrading to a Tink will certainly save you money, but you will also be getting a significant decrease in image quality. I would personally keep it unless you really don't mind poorer image quality (not a knock on the Tink, it's a good option for what it is, it's just in a different league compared to the FM and OSSC). You will at least come out ahead money-wise.

[TooBeaucoup]

I have an OSSC and Framemeister. I love the OSSC, but the Framemeister has such insane picture tweaking options, it's hard for me to get rid of it, even though I mostly use the OSSC now. Personally, I'd wait for the OSSC Pro and see how it turns out. I have a feeling it's going to be a pretty big deal!

[bahamutfan64]

The Retrotink products are reallly just a poor man’s OSSC; with the highest end model costing about $130 and the OSSC being about $160 from video game perfection, I really don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t pony up the difference for vastly superior image quality.

[headlesshobbs]

The problem with any device who's output is 480p will end up forcing the tv to upscale and add additional filtering, so you're not going to get the best picture for your money. Many folks say the ossc's 720p is a sweet spot and 'should' be the most acceptable output that most sets are happy to deal with. That's still a gamble though, because these odd resolutions from the games themselves may not always work.

Ossc or wait.

[TooBeaucoup]

The Retrotink products are reallly just a poor man’s OSSC; with the highest end model costing about $130 and the OSSC being about $160 from video game perfection, I really don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t pony up the difference for vastly superior image quality.

That's always been my thought. Really the only attraction to the Retro Tink is the S-Video and composite. If the OSSC had came with that, the Retro Tink would have no reason to exist. It's a great product for sure, but if you use Scart, component or VGA, the OSSC is a no-brainer. The price of the Retro Tink products really never made a ton of sense to me.

[Gara]

Retrotinks biggest strength is its plug and play nature. No mods, special cables, or tweaking required. Plug it in, power it on, and play.

When compared with the Framemeister you would have a far more simple and easy to use setup with a Retrotink. You would be trading some image quality for that ease of use though. On the bright side you could potentially be lowering your input lag with the Retrotink. How much would depend on your tvs scaling speed of 480p vs 1080p.

OSSC is great, but I sure wouldn't call it easier to use than the Framemeister. That's even if we assumed all your systems could be connected to it. OSSC is my go to solution, but I invested a lot of time and money into it. I keep a Framemeister around for 480i games.

If the thought of raising the Framemeister's remote even one more time bugs you and you're willing to trade some image quality then I'd say go for it and buy a Retrotink. Otherwise enjoy the Framemeister, it's awesome.

As for the Rad2x cables. Buying all Rad2x would simplify your setup even further than a Retrotink. I can see the appeal of no more analog cables or switchers. Your only worry would be hdmi cables. It's not hard to see why these plug and play cables are so popular. While I long for that simplicity, I couldn't settle for 480p after experiencing the better options.

[SavagePencil]

You're telling them to use the OSSC but ignoring the OP who has indicated that they've got composite, S-video, and component. Only the component would work with the OSSC without doing some conversions. They're weighing the small fidelity gain the FM affords (at a cost of lag) vs. the convenience of the RT2X.

[Fudoh]

In my opinion there's no going back. You can't use a Framemeister and then downgrade to something like a Retrotink. The only alternative is an OSSC, which is WAY more complicated if you want to fully utilize it (or just as EASY if you're ok with out of the box settings). The OSSC has some advantages over the FM, but as many disadvantages. The biggest ones being the lack of better deinterlacing on the OSSC as well as the missing composite and s-video inputs.

The downgrade in picture quality when going with a Retrotink is not worth it. I'm not sure what bothers you about the FM. With the buttons available on the remote (like input selection, aspect ratio control and processing presets), there's hardly ever any need to go into the menus at all.

[nmalinoski]

OSSC is great, but I sure wouldn't call it easier to use than the Framemeister. That's even if we assumed all your systems could be connected to it. OSSC is my go to solution, but I invested a lot of time and money into it.

Whether or not the OSSC is easy to use really depends on how deep you want to get into the weeds. For me, I've never had to adjust anything on my OSSC aside from a few settings related to automatic input switching and TX Mode (needs to be set to DVI when I'm using TOSLINK for audio); the out-of-the-box defaults have been perfectly fine.

[bahamutfan64]

OSSC is great, but I sure wouldn't call it easier to use than the Framemeister. That's even if we assumed all your systems could be connected to it. OSSC is my go to solution, but I invested a lot of time and money into it.

Whether or not the OSSC is easy to use really depends on how deep you want to get into the weeds. For me, I've never had to adjust anything on my OSSC aside from a few settings related to automatic input switching and TX Mode (needs to be set to DVI when I'm using TOSLINK for audio); the out-of-the-box defaults have been perfectly fine.

Absolutely.

You can simply select the 4x scale and literally touch nothing else and you'll get infinitely better results than the (rather) blurry 2x scale of other products. If selecting that option is too technically involved or inconvenient for someone, then how do they even manage to switch their TVs on or off?

The Koryuu may also be piped into the OSSC for composite and S-video.

[shroom2k]

Haven't tried Retrotink/Rad2x yet but was thinking about getting one to use it via s-video and smoothing filter for PS1/Saturn. I have the OSSC, and I really dislike how 3d games of that generation look with OSSC scaling. Hell, I don't even like them via RGB on CRT. S-video looks very good though, just the right amount of brightness and blur.

[ldeveraux]

I want to summarize what I've read so far:

Koryuu + OSSC > FM > RetroTink

[Fudoh]

you can't generalize that. Depends on your use case. Strictly for 240p sources and with a TV fully compatible with the OSSC, yes. With any need for proper 480i deinterlacing? No. Without the TV and possibly your capture device playing along? No. You might also dislike the OSSC's inability to let you adjust the aspect ratio any way you want.

[Sengoku Strider]

Is there a recommended manufacturer/vendor for OSSC (I'm in Canada)? All I'm seeing online is eight dozen Chinese manufacturers I've never heard of, with prices varying all over the place in a range of about $150, yet all using the exact same stock product photo.

The OSSC has some advantages over the FM, but as many disadvantages. The biggest ones being the lack of better deinterlacing on the OSSC as well as the missing composite and s-video inputs.

FM has a couple of killer disadvantages to weigh against that though, namely:

1) input lag. It's only about a frame or so, but if you're already on an HDTV without a great response time, making things slower might be a deal breaker for some.

2) Tripping over itself and turning the screen black for several seconds when a game changes resolution modes. Which of course tends to happen at the beginning of cinemas, FMVs, etc.

[orange808]

Just for clarity, readers considering the OSSC should know: the OSSC will also have also screen blackouts when the signal changes. Choosing OSSC over Framemeister will not eliminate those handshake re-sync "black screen" delays.

[Thomago]

Just my two cents:
The Framemeister was good for its time, but had (and, to my knowledge, has) glaring issues when it comes to picture quality. You basically cannot get a sharp, artifact-free picture from the thing.
Switching to the OSSC was an absolute eye opener in this regard.

[Konsolkongen]

Just for clarity, readers considering the OSSC should know: the OSSC will also have also screen blackouts when the signal changes. Choosing OSSC over Framemeister will not eliminate those handshake re-sync "black screen" delays.

True. But the difference is still huge. The Framemeister’s blackouts take much longer than the OSSC.

[strayan]

GBS-C wins in the 240p-480i switching department: https://youtu.be/fmfR0XI5czI?t=977

[ZellSF]

Just for clarity, readers considering the OSSC should know: the OSSC will also have also screen blackouts when the signal changes.

The OSSC won't, most display devices will.

[ldeveraux]

you can't generalize that. Depends on your use case. Strictly for 240p sources and with a TV fully compatible with the OSSC, yes. With any need for proper 480i deinterlacing? No. Without the TV and possibly your capture device playing along? No. You might also dislike the OSSC's inability to let you adjust the aspect ratio any way you want.

Was this a response to me saying:

Koryuu + OSSC > FM > RetroTink

If so, that's interesting. I honestly didn't consider the different resolutions in/out when I chose the OSSC over the FM, I just knew it had SCART in instead of AV, D5, S-vid, etc. Plus the FM was far more expensive and at EOL. Regardless good info to know, but I def don't regret my decision to go OSSC.