Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

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evil_ash_xero
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Any update on this? Has Covid slowed down production on this thing, or what? I don't want to miss it.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

It's about damn time that the Analogue Duo console is finally up for pre-ordering on May 19, 2023 at 8am PST with a MSRP of $249.99 + another $50.00 added-on for premium shipping -- so factor in a whopping $300 + tax as well (it'll easily be north of $300 no shit). https://store.analogue.co/#duo

So if one does order either the white PCE variant or the all black colored variant Analogue Duo, it'll be able to play both PCE & TG-16 game carts without the need for a converter, right? Hmmm...

RetroRGB has his two cents on the Analogue Duo setup as it is and without OpenPFGA support from the get-go: https://www.retrorgb.com/analogue-duo-p ... riday.html It says in fine print that both the black & white Analogue Duo consoles are region-free to begin with info listed here: https://admin.retrorgb.com/wp-content/u ... scaled.jpg So that basically answers my above question indeed.

You'll be able to use either 8Bitdo's PCE or TG-16 2.4 wireless based gamepads as the Analogue Duo already has a wireless 2.4 receiver built-in + the ablity to use the old school PCE gamepads and arcade sticks on it as well (considering that both consoles have a PC Engine style controller input interface). (Will require a TG-16 to Duo controller adapter to use the old-school TurboGrafx-16 based Turbo pads & Turbo Stick controllers with either Analogue Duo console setup -- that is for certain.)

On the Analogue site, it does say that the Duo consoles will be shipping in 2023 (but that could, in reality, be in 2024 given Analogue's infamous well known long-delayed shipping practices).

This brings up another pressing question, does the Analogue Duo console support Krikzz's Turbo Everdrive and Turbo Everdrive Pro flash carts as well? We'll find out when the first batch is shipped out for sure (whenever that may be). I'm pretty sure they'd both work just fine considering that both Analogue Duo consoles have the old-school Hu-Card slot to begin with.

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Last edited by PC Engine Fan X! on Fri May 19, 2023 1:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by bobrocks95 »

I am fully expecting them to get the Duo out the door with a limited release to make up for sunk R&D costs, maybe do one more run down the line, then discontinue it in favor of an all-in-one home system with OpenFPGA support, a series of cartridge adapters, and a premium price tag, and just keep that and the Pocket in production.

Is one of the OpenFPGA Genesis cores (I'm reading that the Spiritualized cores are probably Kevtris') already better than their MegaSG core? I mean it all seems like why pay FPGA devs to work on cores yourself when you can just get the community to do it for free...
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

After looking at the Analogue Duo Hu-Card slot in one picture of it on Analogue's site, it doesn't seem like that there's enough room height-wise to accommodate a Krikzz Turbo Everdrive or even the Turbo Everdrive Pro without doing some sleight cosmetic surgery to the Hu-Card slot itself or take the top console shell off entirely then it'd probably work (so it'll only be able to accommodate the traditional credit-card sized Hu-Card & Turbo Chip carts as usual).

Makes me wonder if save states are enabled with this Analogue Duo console setup or if you'll be able to use a Tennoekoe Bank Hu-Card setup for game saving posterity as well? Hmmm...

The Analogue Duo console sure does raise a lot more questions than there are answers to them as of right now.

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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by XtraSmiley »

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:After looking at the Analogue Duo Hu-Card slot in one picture of it on Analogue's site, it doesn't seem like that there's enough room height-wise to accommodate a Krikzz Turbo Everdrive or even the Turbo Everdrive Pro without doing some sleight cosmetic surgery to the Hu-Card slot itself or take the top console shell off entirely then it'd probably work (so it'll only be able to accommodate the traditional credit-card sized Hu-Card & Turbo Chip carts as usual).

Makes me wonder if save states are enabled with this Analogue Duo console setup or if you'll be able to use a Tennoekoe Bank Hu-Card setup for game saving posterity as well? Hmmm...

The Analogue Duo console sure does raise a lot more questions than there are answers to them as of right now.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
They stated the TED will fit without the acrylic. If you look at the direct shot of the console, you can see that even SF2 and the Arcade card will work.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Alrighty then, so we'll be able to use the various bigger sized Hu-Cards such as Populus, Street Fighter II Dash, Tennoekoe Bank Rom Ram variant version, Arcade Card Pro and of course, both Krikzz's Turbo Everdrive & Turbo Everdrive Pro flash carts.

Considering that the Analogue Duo already has built-in Arcade CD-Rom2 support from the get-go, we really don't need to use either Arcade Card Duo or Arcade Card Pro (as it'd be rather redundant to use them in this particular instance/situation -- use them on the real PCE gaming hardware as intended/meant to be).

By using the extravagant cd loading mechanism that'll suck in a PCE/TG-16 game disc (akin to how the PS3 & PS4 loads theirs) without the need for a top-loading cd-rom disc drive setup (like with the older PCE Duos/Turbo Duo) really does bring the aging PCE/TG-16 hardware kicking & screaming into the 21st century era. A simple light press of the eject button ejects said game disc -- how cool is that?

Could the NEC hardware designers have come up with such a slick & high-tech front loading cd loading mechanism with the PCE Duo lineup of consoles back in the early 1990s? They probably could have but that would've added extra expenses to the overall production costs for each console manufactured (and would naturally increase the MSRP per console sold to the general public). So yes, I can see why NEC decided to go with the "tried 'n' true" old-school top-loading cd drive setup -- it works 100% flawlessly as intended (and cheaper overall production cost per console in the end). Makes sense in hindsight nowadays.

Consider me sold on the positive merits of this newfangled Analogue Duo console. It'll definitely be well worth wait to finally get one (but to wait over two and a half years later after the official announcement of proposed console -- that is quite something unto itself indeed, especially with the world under lockdown during the Covid-19 pandemic timeline/timeframe -- that is understandable in this instance + the fairly recent computer chip shortage issue as well).

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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I wonder if this will have a palette switch?

Krikzz's device does not. There is a replacement video chip that you can get. I'm not sure if you can switch back and forth, though. I'd like
to wait a while before getting something like that.

I think the only places you can get the correct colors are on the MiSTer and the TerraOnion device. I would think it would be simple to add into this system.

BTW, ordered two. White and Black. I hope they actually ship in 2023.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

It'll be additional $25.00 for shipping & handling within the USA + tax rounds the overall price to a respectable & reasonable $296.00+ (just barely under the $300 pricepoint threshold is an awesome deal for an Analogue Duo setup imho). Hot damn!

Is certainly cheaper than getting an rgb-modded Duo console any ol' day for sure.

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Last edited by PC Engine Fan X! on Fri May 19, 2023 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Dochartaigh »

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:It'll be additional $25.00 for shipping & handling within the USA + tax rounds the overall price to a respectable & reasonable $296.00+ (under the $300 pricepoint is an awesome deal for an Analogue Duo setup imho).

Is certainly cheaper than getting an rgb-modded Duo console any ol' day for sure.
You forgot the DAC cost - and if it's like the Pocket might be 2+ years until it can actually work with the DAC (which we're still waiting on support for). Moot point but was $34 shipping for me in the USA.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Deubeul »

79$ shipping to France. Ouch.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Dochartaigh »

Deubeul wrote:79$ shipping to France. Ouch.
That's kinda normal TBH. I can mail a similar size package in the USA for $9... last time I shipped the same exact item to UK it was around $70. When I change my ISP to be in UK (this can sometimes drastically change the price) and get a quote the opposite direction to the USA it's literally like $25 via the same service...
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by bobrocks95 »

Love seeing everyone realize their outrageous shipping costs every time they release a product. It's clear the shipping was padded ever since the SuperNT launch so they could advertise it as under $200.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Deubeul »

I was already totally aware of that, but ouch anyway.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by spmbx »

Deubeul wrote:79$ shipping to France. Ouch.
Check the import tax bill when they finally deliver it :D
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Deubeul »

Yeah, aware of that too.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by jd213 »

Probably not going to get this, but if I was I'd be very concerned about:

- Longevity of the disc drive. My Duo-R is still going strong, but will Analogue's box last 30+ years? Will it be easily servicable/repairable with off the shelf parts?

- Bugs seem likely, especially with all the different revisions of the original PCE hardware. Will we have to wait years for fixes like some other Analogue products?

Will also be curious about how save data will be handled, and whether or not it will be possible to dump one's own games (I believe the Super NT lets you do this, but not the Mega SG).
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by BazookaBen »

I was totally on-board with buying one of these a couple years ago.

But in recent months I've learned about the existence of the Turbo Everdrive Pro and the Turbonanza video mod with accurate s-video output. So it's actually possible now to get full library and the best video output on basic PC Engines

So today I decided I'd finally grab a PC Engine (specifically Core Grafx II) and pair it with the Pro Everdrive and TurboNanza.

This came out cheaper than getting an Analogue Duo + DAC, but still within $100.

I think this was the right way to go for me. Though my feelings might change on it. The Duo could have had the convenience factor if it gets the ability to also load from SD. Or load Hucard games from burned CDs.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Rulumi »

That Hu-Card slot looks a bit uncomfortable and leaves quite an small amount of space to take the card out.

Anyway, as always with this kind of marketing...
No emulation.
We're preserving history with FPGA hardware. Duo is designed with unparalleled compatibility. The core functionality of each system is engineered directly into an Altera Cyclone V, a sophisticated FPGA. We spent thousands of hours engineering each system via FPGA for absolute accuracy. Unlike the knock off and emulation systems that riddle the market today, you'll be experiencing the entire NEC era free of compromises. Duo is designed to preserve video game history, with the respect it deserves.
In any case I'll reserve my opinions on their sayings except one. Saying "you'll be experiencing the entire NEC era" is quite deceptive considering the NEC PC series and the PC-FX exists, but well, I guess most of their public for this product may not have much interest in that systems.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by bobrocks95 »

BazookaBen wrote:I was totally on-board with buying one of these a couple years ago.

But in recent months I've learned about the existence of the Turbo Everdrive Pro and the Turbonanza video mod with accurate s-video output. So it's actually possible now to get full library and the best video output on basic PC Engines

So today I decided I'd finally grab a PC Engine (specifically Core Grafx II) and pair it with the Pro Everdrive and TurboNanza.

This came out cheaper than getting an Analogue Duo + DAC, but still within $100.

I think this was the right way to go for me. Though my feelings might change on it. The Duo could have had the convenience factor if it gets the ability to also load from SD. Or load Hucard games from burned CDs.
How much did the Core Grafx II cost you out of curiousity? They still seem to be north of $100 from what I'm seeing, so I'd think $375 or so for a PC Engine + Turbo ED Pro + RGB output?

Assuming it gets rom loading like other Analogue consoles I'd maintain that the Analogue Duo is the only console they've released so far that's cheaper than original hardware. Similar enough price point at least though.

Also does the Turbonanza only have the corrected palette over S-Video? With all the talk about it I'm amazed nobody's thrown a LUT into an RGB mod yet (maybe it's more complicated than that).
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by BazookaBen »

Core Grafx 2 was $93 shipped, with controller and PSU. It's "untested" but I'm betting it's just because the seller doesn't have a display with analog inputs

So yeah, it'll be about $375 altogether with Turbonanza and Everdrive Pro. And eventually another $25 when I do a region mod. Analogue with DAC would be around $425 including the shipping upcharge.

So yeah, ~$400 is looking like the floor for the full-fat experience these days

Macho Nacho has a good video on the Turbonanza. S-video is best for the true palette. It pulls it off the system encoder somehow. Translating that to the RGB output would probably make the whole thing more complicated.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by bobrocks95 »

BazookaBen wrote:So yeah, it'll be about $375 altogether with Turbonanza and Everdrive Pro. And eventually another $25 when I do a region mod. Analogue with DAC would be around $425 including the shipping upcharge.
The region mod scares me, I wouldn't ever want to clip that many pins so I think if I ever end up with US TurboChips I'll just get an external converter. Barely ever seen a TG16 game in the wild though over here.

And needing the DAC is dumb and I forgot to factor it in. Wish the jailbreak firmware would provide an unofficial 240p mode for external DACs that they could just say they don't offer any support with. Retrotink 4K will at least allow for it, but that's a hefty piece of hardware to buy just for 240p out.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:Wish the jailbreak firmware would provide an unofficial 240p mode for external DACs that they could just say they don't offer any support with.
Even the official firmwares totally could do this, it's trivial. A Pi has done it for years. But Analogue won't because they want you to buy their DAC.

What I'm curious about is whether there is a significant number of people with a MiSTer setup who would also consider getting this console. Seems so redundant at this point.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by bobrocks95 »

I at least understand not wanting an average user to set it to 240p on accident and then have it show no signal on their 4K TV and send in a support ticket that the thing's broken. Very different expectations/user set for Analogue products vs someone buying a Raspberry Pi or other things meant for tinkering. Mike Chi has spoken about how many crummy support tickets he used to get from people whose N64 had a dirty cartridge connector or whatever else. I think throwing it on the jailbreak firmware would be a good compromise.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Deubeul »

fernan1234 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
What I'm curious about is whether there is a significant number of people with a MiSTer setup who would also consider getting this console. Seems so redundant at this point.

Mister does not read hucards ands discs, and does not look that cool.

So any pce fanboy owning a physical games collection and fed up with console maintenance is the target.

I think us westerners underestimate the potentially high demand from the japanese market for this thing.

I already own a Mister, a SSDS3, and multiple genuine consoles, been convicing myself since the announcement that I don't need one, and guess what? Friday at 8:01 pdt I found myself clicking on this damn "buy" button.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Rulumi »

About 240p and not wanting a normal user getting stuck on a resolution that nothing they have can't diaplay.

Probably an alternative like being a hidden option and not being able to save such setting, but use it on the fly and always being reset back to the default or know compatible one, or a different alternative could be thought of and given a try. Maybe less convenient, but keeping the point of not putting a normal user within a pinch.

But since their own DAC comes into play, it's up wether the company in the talk here will like to make a compromise within lowering a possible source of extra revenue.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by fernan1234 »

Deubeul wrote:I think us westerners underestimate the potentially high demand from the japanese market for this thing.
You'd think so right? But it may not be the cased at least going by what I've observed about the Japanese market for retro gaming stuff including the PCE.

The biggest trend is that most retro gamers in Japan don't care at all about video quality, and most will plug their 100% unmodded PCE's via composite to LCD TVs. Another big segment will be happier using that PCE Mini that Konami released. Of course there are some more hardcore users who will play on CRTs, use scalers, and mod consoles, but they are relatively fewer than the corresponding niche in the West. I've heard from modders in Japan about how most of the Duos and briefcases they mod for RGB are going to overseas buyers.

The HDMI output would be attractive to a fair share of people there perhaps, but I can't see it justifying the expensive dollars for most.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Fudoh »

going by the order numbers for the first two hours after opening orders (~7000 orders), I'd say they certainly moved 10,000 units yesterday. I think that's quite impressive for a system like that.
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by ldeveraux »

Fudoh wrote:going by the order numbers for the first two hours after opening orders (~7000 orders), I'd say they certainly moved 10,000 units yesterday. I think that's quite impressive for a system like that.
There's a lot of FOMO out there
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by spmbx »

The most impressive part is that you can actually still preorder them after like a day. Where do you check the numbers anyway?
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Re: Analogue Duo, New PC Engine Duo FPGA From Analogue

Post by Fudoh »

Where do you check the numbers anyway?
got a few order IDs on a local forum with orders placed up to two hours after launch.
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