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 Post subject: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:53 am 


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I have an official 360 component cable, having issues getting it to correctly display on CRT.

Using a cheapo component > SCART adapter only gives a signal when the green plug is connected. The video is either red, green or blue when the green component plug is connected to the red, green or blue socket on the adapter. The adapter also has a yellow socket and when the yellow plug is connected it gives a proper picture but its composite only. The red and green plugs don’t appear to effect the video at all.

Using the component cable > OSSC (480i passthru) > HDMI to VGA adapter > VGA to SCART cable > TV gives a proper RGB quality video, but the vertical positioning of the signal is inconsistent. The vertical position can be corrected using various methods via the OSSC or the TV menu, but it doesn’t stay in position when the 360 launches an app or when any settings are adjusted on the OSSC. Not to mention this chain of devices, adapters and cables is pretty ludicrous.

Can anyone chip in with some advice on whether an offical or third-party 360 SCART cable would solve this issue? I’m really just trying to determine for myself if the nostalgia gain from watching Star Wars in SD is worth the drop in resolution and colour gamut.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:26 pm 



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bonzo.bits wrote:
Using a cheapo component > SCART adapter only gives a signal when the green plug is connected. The video is either red, green or blue when the green component plug is connected to the red, green or blue socket on the adapter. The adapter also has a yellow socket and when the yellow plug is connected it gives a proper picture but its composite only. The red and green plugs don’t appear to effect the video at all.

This sounds like you picked up an adapter, not a converter. Adapters are passive devices meant only to change connector types while leaving the original signal intact, whereas a converter would manipulate the signal in some way. Since your adapter isn't doing anything to the YPbPr signal, you're only feeding luma to one of red, green, or blue, as you said. You need a colorspace converter, like the COMP2RGB, to convert the YPbPr signaling to RGBS in order to use it with a SCART-compatible display or video processor.

bonzo.bits wrote:
Can anyone chip in with some advice on whether an offical or third-party 360 SCART cable would solve this issue? I’m really just trying to determine for myself if the nostalgia gain from watching Star Wars in SD is worth the drop in resolution and colour gamut.

I believe a SCART cable will give you 480i (and only 480i, or 576i with PAL) output from your Xbox 360. This is generally the case with SCART cables for most consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am 


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Is watching Star Wars in SD really nostalgic? I'd think there'd be more nostalgia in watching something like Project 4K77, the 4K scan of the original 1977 35mm technicolor prints, recreating the original experience of seeing the film in theatres, with all the warts of 1970s film printing technology... The film was never meant to be seen cropped to 4:3 at ultra-low resolution (well, no film is), and there has never been a good release of the theatrical version that you'd need an xbox 360 to play. The closest it ever got was the 2006 GOUT DVD that was a copy of the mediocre laserdisc transfer.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:45 am 


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Yes, a real Xbox 360 SCART cable should display properly on your TV. The video quality would likely be the same or slightly better than the complicated converter chain setup you're experimented with (but without the vertical position issues). It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it.

The Xbox 360 is awesome with SCART if you have a way to convert 480i to 240p. The library of 240p shmups is incredible. But aside from that application, I prefer to just run mine on a modern flat panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:25 pm 


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The best result that I have gotten is using the analog VGA from the 360 and downscale (UVC) to 240p. But in all honesty all the shumps games look better with the VGA analog fron the 360 and a PC CRT.
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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:12 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
Is watching Star Wars in SD really nostalgic?


Nostalgia is personal. It's a pleasant reminder of your own past, so if you personally experienced star wars in SD for the first time then emulating that could be more nostalgic.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:08 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
Is watching Star Wars in SD really nostalgic? I'd think there'd be more nostalgia in watching something like Project 4K77, the 4K scan of the original 1977 35mm technicolor prints, recreating the original experience of seeing the film in theatres, with all the warts of 1970s film printing technology... The film was never meant to be seen cropped to 4:3 at ultra-low resolution (well, no film is), and there has never been a good release of the theatrical version that you'd need an xbox 360 to play. The closest it ever got was the 2006 GOUT DVD that was a copy of the mediocre laserdisc transfer.


Nostalgia is completely subjective. I wasn’t born in 1977 so watching a modern replication taken from some original prints is irrelevant. Watching on a 4:3 screen was the is the first and only way I saw any of the OT movies back when I first developed the emotional connection that can lead to nostalgia down the track. When watching recently on CRT it did ring some nostalgia bells but for me it was more of an experiment than any strong desire. Turns out that as I anticipated, I much prefer watching on a modern flatscreen.

On the 4k77, what sort of colour gamut does it use? I watched enough of the creators YT vid to see that he has clearly taken great care with it and I’m pretty keen to get my hands on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:18 am 


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matt wrote:
Yes, a real Xbox 360 SCART cable should display properly on your TV. The video quality would likely be the same or slightly better than the complicated converter chain setup you're experimented with (but without the vertical position issues). It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it.

The Xbox 360 is awesome with SCART if you have a way to convert 480i to 240p. The library of 240p shmups is incredible. But aside from that application, I prefer to just run mine on a modern flat panel.

SNK-NEO-GEO wrote:
The best result that I have gotten is using the analog VGA from the 360 and downscale (UVC) to 240p. But in all honesty all the shumps games look better with the VGA analog fron the 360 and a PC CRT.


Cheers for this. Looks like I’ll have to investigate a downscaling solution at some stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:53 am 



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bonzo.bits wrote:
On the 4k77, what sort of colour gamut does it use? I watched enough of the creators YT vid to see that he has clearly taken great care with it and I’m pretty keen to get my hands on it.

I'm confused by what you mean by "colour gamut" here, and in the OP.

Colour gamut is determined by the display and how it chooses to represent the R', G', and B' values encoded in the signal. The mastering displays for 4K77 were likely Rec. 709/sRGB. There's nothing stopping you from watching it on a DCI-P3 screen, but it probably won't look how it was meant to look.

"Star Wars in SD" could mean a lot of things, but the LaserDiscs and DVDs would've been mastered on SMPTE C/EBU monitors. Their primaries are close enough to each other and Rec. 709 to not look too different in practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:12 pm 


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ross wrote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "colour gamut" here, and in the OP.

Colour gamut is determined by the display and how it chooses to represent the R', G', and B' values encoded in the signal. The mastering displays for 4K77 were likely Rec. 709/sRGB. There's nothing stopping you from watching it on a DCI-P3 screen, but it probably won't look how it was meant to look.

"Star Wars in SD" could mean a lot of things, but the LaserDiscs and DVDs would've been mastered on SMPTE C/EBU monitors. Their primaries are close enough to each other and Rec. 709 to not look too different in practice.

My 20+ year old CRT doesn’t produce colours across as broad a gamut as my 2018 OLED. I also assume a LD version of a movie will have reduced gamut compared to the HD and 4K versions (are the OT even on 4K disc yet?) So going from bluray on OLED to a digital version of ANH (not sure which version but from memory the consensus on the internet was that it was one of the more accurate ones for colour) on a CRT, was the drop in gamut I was referring to.

The OLED display I use has options for various gamuts (709, SMPTE-C, DCI-P3, 2020, etc) so I’m curious as to which one I should select when watching 4K77. Given OLEDs do only 70-something percent of DCI-P3 I’m guessing REC2020. Also, given that 4K77 was taken from prints or whatever, isn’t there potential that it’s a wider gamut than 709?


Last edited by bonzo.bits on Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:37 pm 


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So if the nostalgia goal was just the display output (like, "I want to watch this in 4:3 on a CRT"), then there are two aspects to consider: source, and display chain.

Source is important, not just for the version of the film, but the aspect ratio. If you want to view it in 4:3, you need a version mastered for that, because it will be pan & scan. If you take the widescreen version and just zoom it in to 4:3, stuff will be cut off (the original fullscreen releases would move the "window" back and forth for each shot to get the most stuff in frame).

IIRC the last fullscreen version released was the 2006 DVDs, but the "original non-special-edition" bonus discs I think were widescreen-only. So if you wanted to view the 1997 special edition, you can easily get that fullscreen (said 2006 DVDs), but if you want the theatrical version in 4:3, you'd need to go back to some release from before then. That would be either the VHS copies from 1995 (or previous), or the laserdisc release from 1986 or earlier (the later laserdiscs were all widescreen).

If you want the theatrical release and don't mind it being widescreen, 4K77 or Harmy's Despecialized Editions are the two best option, I think. Harmy's is a reconstruction of the theatrical release using frame-by-frame compositing of all the best available sources for each element, while 4K77 is a scan of original film prints. 4K77 is more accurate, though sort of a dirtier picture, because it has all the film grain and dust/dirt/scratches you'd expect from 40+ year old film prints. There's a digital noise removal version of it that is a bit cleaner.

In terms of playback on a 15 kHz CRT, I would probably just put a copy of the film on a USB stick (or just a DVD directly) and put it on a game console with 480i component video output like the 360 and plug that into the TV. The video files will all be encoded in YCbCr (as all digital video is), so there is nothing to gain by using RGB in the console or display chain rather than letting the TV do the component-to-RGB conversion. If your TV only supports RGB input and not component (if we're talking PAL territory here), then the COMP2RGB is the best option, or just use the composite video output of the 360.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:59 pm 



Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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bonzo.bits wrote:
I also assume a LD version of a movie will have reduced gamut compared to the HD and 4K versions

LDs, DVDs, Blu-rays don't have a gamut. We can only guess or assume (in the absence of metadata) based on standards or display characteristics of the time what the mastering display gamut was, but that's not encoded on the disc or inherent to the player, it's purely on the display end. The mVs coming out of an LD player can be represented in SMPTE C, Rec. 709, Rec. 2020, etc., but watching an LD in Rec. 2020 will clearly look wrong because those values were encoded based on how they were reproduced on an SMPTE C/EBU monitor.

Even on the display end, the difference between SMPTE C and 709 primaries are within error bars of a thorough calibration so there's probably no point obsessing over them.

bonzo.bits wrote:
So going from bluray on OLED to a digital version of ANH (not sure which version but from memory the consensus on the internet was that it was one of the more accurate ones for colour)

Unless the internet is basing this on how a number of original 1977 IB Tech 35mm prints look when correctly projected, I don't think we can say what is and isn't accurate to the original look. At least 4K77 is a scan of one good IB Tech print, though we don't know what adjustments were made in the digital realm and how it compares to the look of the same print when projected.

bonzo.bits wrote:
The OLED display I use has options for various gamuts (709, SMPTE-C, DCI-P3, 2020, etc) so I’m curious as to which one I should select when watching 4K77. Given OLEDs do only 70-something percent of DCI-P3 I’m guessing REC2020. Also, given that 4K77 was taken from prints or whatever, isn’t there potential that it’s a wider gamut than 709?

Assuming those out-of-the-box presets are accurate, probably 709, as I said in my last post.

OLEDs can almost cover the full P3 gamut at this stage, but not Rec. 2020. I don't think there's a display anywhere that can boast full 2020 coverage.

Every home video release of Star Wars is sourced from film with a larger colour gamut. What's relevant is how the video master looked on the mastering display, which, in this case, was likely Rec. 709/sRGB.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:36 am 



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Guspaz wrote:
IIRC the last fullscreen version released was the 2006 DVDs, but the "original non-special-edition" bonus discs I think were widescreen-only. So if you wanted to view the 1997 special edition, you can easily get that fullscreen (said 2006 DVDs), but if you want the theatrical version in 4:3, you'd need to go back to some release from before then. That would be either the VHS copies from 1995 (or previous), or the laserdisc release from 1986 or earlier (the later laserdiscs were all widescreen).

The 2006 DVDs were anamorphic widescreen. A DVD player would either add black bars and squeeze the image for a 4:3 display, pan & scan if the DVD player was set for that and the DVD allowed for it (not sure if the 2006 DVDs did), or output as is for 16:9 displays. The bonus disc with the theatrical cut was 4:3 letterboxed widescreen like the LaserDiscs, so when played back on a 16:9 display you'd get windowboxing.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:02 pm 


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So, the 2006 release was the 2004 DVDs with the bonus discs added, and the 2004 release had two separate SKUs, a widescreen release with silver packaging/trim, and a fullscreen pan&scan release with gold packaging/trim. I can't say if the 2006 limited editions also had separate SKUs, but the primary discs were the same as the 2004 version.

See this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fg4AAOSw095fQSHp/s-l1600.jpg

Versus this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VBQAAOSw8W5aUU3A/s-l1600.jpg

EDIT: Changed images to links since they were huge.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
So, the 2006 release was the 2004 DVDs with the bonus discs added, and the 2004 release had two separate SKUs, a widescreen release with silver packaging/trim, and a fullscreen pan&scan release with gold packaging/trim. I can't say if the 2006 limited editions also had separate SKUs, but the primary discs were the same as the 2004 version.

See this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fg4AAOSw095fQSHp/s-l1600.jpg

Versus this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VBQAAOSw8W5aUU3A/s-l1600.jpg

EDIT: Changed images to links since they were huge.

Wow, had no idea that was a still a thing in 2006. In Europe, we just got the widescreen releases.


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 Post subject: Re: Connecting Xbox 360 to SCART input on 15khz CRT
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:58 pm 


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It was oddly the same package colouring as was used for the 1997 special edition VHS tapes, gold for fullscreen and silver for widescreen.


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