Newbie question : where to get a supergun + pcb's !?

Zeograd · Post by **Zeograd** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:33 am

Hi !

I was wondering if you guys knew where I could get a decent supergun ( a complete package, with controllers, cords, etc. ) and pcb's to get me started ?

All those pics of shmups are making me drool and now I'm thinking to myself enough is enough, I need to get me a supergun !

So... help !

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:20 am

If you have room go for a cabinet, its much better overall.

If you insist on a supergun, try D_lite at the neo-geo forums. He makes probably the nicest most compact SG's on the block.

I would not recommend a commercial supergun unless its a Japanese one like the Sigma, which are expensive and hard to find.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:21 am

For PCB's, you need look no further than here.

Check the trading station, especially this thread -

http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2263

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:31 am

Your name sounds familiar... have I talked to you before on another forum?

Anyways, as stated, cabs are the way to go if you have the space (I do not). They often cost as much as a good supergun.

If you're not in the UK, your options are very limited. MAS Systems are the easiest to find, but are apparently gigantic hunks of dog shit. The limousine of the Supergun world is the Sigma (w/ controller). The controllers are made of all Seimitsu parts. An older one w/ two controllers just finished on Yahoo Japan for the bargain price of 12,000 yen. I doubt that will happen again.

If you don't want to wait for Yahoo Japan which is admitedly a LOT cheaper, you can try Shopping Mall Japan -- they will apparently pick up stuff from Akihabara shops, which means you can have them get a Sigma AV7000 and a 9000TB (halfway down this page) from Mak Japan. That's about $400 before their fees, and of course shipping, which might be a lot. The upside -- it's a fantastic set. I own one of each, and love them. It's capable of composite, S-Video, and RGB output (the RGB and S-video cablse are sold seperately, don't forget). There's also a Playstation cable if you want to use the stick on your PS/PS2. It's pricey at 4,000 yen, but hell, it's a great stick. Why not?

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:43 am

This is a SG right?

How does this unit work with neo geo 4 button games?

Does it support CPS2 kick harness?

I take it you can output RGB with this?

Is that price $300 plus shipping?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:12 am

GaijinPunch wrote: If you don't want to wait for Yahoo Japan which is admitedly a LOT cheaper, you can try Shopping Mall Japan -- they will apparently pick up stuff from Akihabara shops

I have an SMJ account, and never herd of this service before. How do place orders for them to buy you stuff thats not on YAJ? I would love to try out the MAK syncronous rapid fire board listed on that page.

BTW: that sigma supergun pictured above was on YAJ like a week or two ago, going for around 28000 yen. It does look like a cadillac of superguns.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:02 am

The one that neorichie posted is the Jinrai -- it's not exactly the cadilac, although it doesn't look bad. Not that good for me, as the only people I ever play games w/ are Wanderer and Matt, and that's only once a few months, and we never play 2-player.

This is the one I was referring to:

I don't know how their games work with Neo Geo 4-button games, but I assume it's just got one of the mapped to the bottom row. For my 9000TB, button 2nd fromt he left on the top row, 2 is the one next to that. The two on the far left are coin & start.

Yes, you can output RGB with the AV7000. I'm sure you can with the Jinrai as well, although you'll need to follow some bizarre instructions to get sound. Matt made me an RGB cable, and it only uses the RGB out, but w/ their RGB cable, you have to get sound out of the Composite jack. Stupid, I know.

No clue if it supports a CPS2 kick harness. I only have one CPS2 game (Progear) which uses the standard Jamma harness that it comes with.

Mak-JP prices don't include shipping, but shipping within Japan, even for a decent sized box, is very cheap. It's the international shipping for these things that will get pricey. I would ship it in two boxes (one for the box, one for the controller) for about 2500 and 4000 yen respectively).

Dave K:
I've never used SMJ account. Someone told me about them dealing with Akiba shops (I *THINK* it was undamned, but it was a long time ago). In all honesty, it could be just for mail order items. Mak-JP does do mail order, but it's not very user friendly. Their awful about replying to emails, and they even say on their page, "call us to place an order".

I know of two PCB shops that will ship abroad, even though they only take local bank transfers as payment, and neither carry any Sigma products. Neither are good with internet orders either (I've usually had to call). I've asked one place by mail if they will ship abroad, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

Anyways, it seems that not only Mak-JP, but also G-Front carries the AV7000 + 9000TB set for 35,000 yen (a good deal). Setup has the same deal for 31,290 yen - an even better deal. If I'm not mistaken, neither set comes with a Jamma harness, so add another 3500 yen on for that.

If you find out SMJ or any other service will accept those things but not actually do the leg work (make the order) I can probably help out w/ the ordering. Ordering yourself will probably not be so easy -- especially since you'll have to know where to send it. O_o

EDIT:
Here's a jinrai on YJ now, but he only has the S-Video cable, which is video only (no sound). You have to use the composite cable for the sound. Dumb. :/

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:09 am

What do you mean sound from the composite jack?

Does the sound require amplification? Is it Stereo?

I take it the harness is a seperate product especially made for the units above?

I am interested in a Jinrai, but I would want the RGB cable to be scart as I have a scart-component transcoder already. The sound would have to be a seperate entity since my transcoder does not carry sound.

If you use a 21 pin Japanese RGB cable, surely this carries audio as well since thats standard isn't it?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:27 am

Well, I can't only assume the Jinrai is the same as the AV7000. For S-Video OR RGB, the video comes from RGB jack, and the audio from the Video VHF jack. Look at the top of the AV7000 pic I posted. There's a Stereo/Mono switch, RGB, then Video VHF (composite) jack. I don't know why they made it that way, but they did. If you make your own RGB cable from a DIN connector, you can definitely get sound out of it, as that's how mine works (Matt made me an RGB cable for my PVM, which handles the video and audio). For some reason, their RGB and S-Video cables do not carry sound. I don't know why they made them like that, but they did.

The harness is definitely a seperate product made for the units above. I've got pics at home if you want to see (also at Assembler somewhere).

The 21-pin RGB cable is most likely Japanese standard, not Euro, so you might have to make your own. Either way, you should be able to get sound out of the composite jack. There's also a headphone jack which would probably work just fine as well. It does not require amplification. Before I figured out how to turn down the volume on my Ketsui board,the headphones almost blew my ears out.

EDIT: If you want to make your own cables, they do provide pinouts in Japanese, but are pretty easy to figure out. Just ask anyone w/ 1 year of kanji under their belt.

EDIT again: Here's a pic of the harness:

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:18 am

Thanks Gaijin,

Youve been really helpful and I appreciate it.

So with the jinrai, you need the harness.. You get sound from an RCA jack which is probably mono, stereo from the headphone jack.

I take it you can get a radio shack mono splitter to 2 RCA's right? Then amplify that through a TV or whatever.

And the PSU runs on 100V or is acceptable on 110V?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:42 am

Oops -- it's a Raijin, not a Jinrai (Jinrai is a weapon in PSO).

I can't say for sure on the Raijin (I will check around and see though) but I couldn't imagine it being different from the AV7000. In that case, what you said is right. You've got actually two different sound sources, both of which are seperated from the video source if you're using S-Video or RGB.　Both should be stereo (the composite cables that the AV7000 came w/ are stereo cables).

The headphone jack should work just like any other, so you should be able to use that to go to a stereo, assuming you had a Y-splitter. Note that there's no volume control for the headphones for some reason.

I've been running mine on 110V for a good 15 months now, with no problems at all.

EDIT:
Dave, taken from Shopping Mall Japan's services page.

Our other service is a general purchasing Special Order service. You find something on a Japanese website, send us all the information needed to buy it, and we make the purchase for you. This is a very popular service of ours, and unfortunely we have to close it from time to time due to overwhelming orders. (click here for detailed overview)

Unfortunately, if you follow the links, they'll only do anime cells and artwork. Damn, wish I was in Japan again. Could open a shop. One day maybe.

What is the item you're after? i'm going to Japan at the beginning of February most likely. I might break down and buy a cable I want before then though. If I order it from Mak, I can stick that little PCB in with it I'm sure.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:58 am

Looking at Maks site it looks like that Blast city control panel is actually a supergun too

Is this based on the Sigma Raijin as well?

Sorry for the questions, I feel like a kid in candy shop

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:09 am

I'm not sure. You know, I always wondered about that Blast City panel. It should be in the Control Panel section, not Control Box. 　It can throw you off.

I'm not sure about your question. Are you asking if the Blast City panel is based on the Sigma Raijin?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:47 am

GaijinPunch wrote: Dave, taken from Shopping Mall Japan's services page.
Our other service is a general purchasing Special Order service. You find something on a Japanese website, send us all the information needed to buy it, and we make the purchase for you. This is a very popular service of ours, and unfortunely we have to close it from time to time due to overwhelming orders. (click here for detailed overview)
Unfortunately, if you follow the links, they'll only do anime cells and artwork. Damn, wish I was in Japan again. Could open a shop. One day maybe.

What is the item you're after? i'm going to Japan at the beginning of February most likely. I might break down and buy a cable I want before then though. If I order it from Mak, I can stick that little PCB in with it I'm sure.

Thanks GP, as neorichieb1971 already stated, you have been most helpful! I'll see if I can order the syncronos autofire board through SMJ first, if they can't get it I'll let you know.

neorichieb1971, here is a nice (and cheap) supergun on YAJ. Looks like it has RGB cable too. Basically its a control panel from a Neo29. Buy now price is under $80 after conversion (although shipping is probably going to be a pain since the panel with power supply would be quite heavy).
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f40753601

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:02 am

Thanks man.

I think I prefer the nicer looking brand new blast city panel actually.

My only problem is that

A) I don't know how to order stuff from Japan
B) I would need a Euro scart pinout on the lead (matt?)
C) I'm not ready to order just yet.. Maybe in March.

I would paypal someone trustworthy in Japan with a nice $50 on top for the trouble.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:10 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:How does this unit work with neo geo 4 button games?

Wire from JAMMA pins c+25 to 1P+2P button 4. If you get the optional kick harness, both will be wired to button 4 (it would only operate on the respective hardwares, not cause any interference).

Does it support CPS2 kick harness?

Yes, you just have to tell them that you want the JAMMA harness with CPS-II> kick harness attached. It costs a little extra of course.

Looking at Maks site it looks like that Blast city control panel is actually a supergun too.

Yes, it's called Boardmaster. You can request it with a Blast or Astro City panel - same price.

Is this based on the Sigma Raijin as well?

No, it's different makers. Raijin is not the size of a normal control panel; just a tad smaller. Boardmaster is full size (naturally) and using a more expensive power supply.

Some pics of other Sigma 'guns in this thread.

About personal shopper in Japan; best if someone would be kind enough here (like GP has offered) to donate their service while there. Commercial type, these fellows might be able to help...for a hefty fee:

http://www.akibado.com/

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:15 am

Yes, it's called Boardmaster. You can request it with a Blast or Astro City panel - same price.

Where does the harness connect? I've never seen these units in stock at Mak.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:20 am

What are all those switches at the top of the board master?

I thought maybe they are auto fire maybe reconfigure the button layout.

Indeed where does the PCB/harness connect to..

Maybe there room inside the thing

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:21 am

Probably autofire. I still don't see where the hell the Jamma harness goes on that thing. O_o

EDIT: - Yes, autofire.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:22 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Yes, it's called Boardmaster. You can request it with a Blast or Astro City panel - same price.
Where does the harness connect? I've never seen these units in stock at Mak.

The side. -snip-

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:23 am

Kewl -- you got one of these? Do you find...ugh... weird to play on? I've only got my floor to lay my controllers on, it just seems like it would feel uncomfortable to me.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:24 am

Oxstu,

Does it use a proprietory connector on the unit itself like the Raijin?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:26 am

This is like IRC.

The page says that it use "a market video cable" I believe which means standard. I only see a 9-pin DINN connector on the back of that thing, and that's what the RGB cable appears to be, which means it could use the same cables the Sigmas use.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:30 am

By connector I meant the harness part

As the Raijin seems to use a custom connector.

Din9 is like neo geo right? If the pinout of the sigma can be converted to neo geo specification I already have a scart lead

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:42 am

GP - No, I don't have one. I think it's a wee overkill for a supergun (the fullsize control panel). They look fierce though.

neorichieb - I think it is full 56p JAMMA on the harness plug-in, unlike Raijin w/custom etched 44p, but am not totally sure. It comes with the harness, so no worries. You wouldn't save any money wiring it yourself (44p and smaller fingerboards can be purchased easily..just in case).