Best Micomsoft Alternatives

[XSync-1]

I would like to open a discussion with you guys about the best possible alternatives for Micomsoft products. In my first discussion on this forum, I was told by more than one person that the Micomsoft Framemeister was inferior to the OSSC. Someone said that it was because the Framemeister used a signal of "4:2:2", whereas the OSSC used a signal of "4:4:4". I've heard some people on the Internet refer to the upcoming OSSC Pro as the "Framemeister Killer", suggesting that the Framemeister is still a good competition for the current OSSC.

You guys told me that the Micomsoft XCapture-1 was an inferior capture device that also used a "4:2:2" signal and that it captured 320x240p (if I'm not mistaken). Someone recommended using the following brands of capture devices instead Epiphan, Datapath, Magewell or Avermedia, but none of these take the same inputs as the XCapture-1, so I'm still not sure why the XCapture-1 is considered inferior to them, apart from the "4:2:2" instead of "4:4:4" thing.

Most people here agreed that the Micomsoft XSync-1 was inferior at whatever it does; I don't think I even know what it does anymore. The one I bought didn't do what I thought it was going to do, and I still haven't been able to get it to work. But that's not the point of this new thread.

I want to talk about the best alternatives to these 3 Micomsoft devices. According to what I've been hearing, the OSSC Pro defeats the Framemeister. The SyncSlayer II defeats the XSync-1, whatever it does. But what defeats the XCapture-1? What capture device does everything that one does and more? I don't think these 4 brands: Epiphan, Datapath, Magewell or Avermedia can take component, S-Video, AV, or RGB-HV inputs like the XCapture-1 can. I think they all just take HDMI, if I'm not mistaken.

I also wanted to ask if any of you guys knew whether there would ever be a successor to the Framemeister or not. Did Micomsoft go out of business? That's what I heard someone on YouTube say. If not, do you think a Framemeister successor would be better than the OSSC Pro? Would it even have the potential to be better?

I've been feeling very crappy about my collection, ever since my first thread on this forum. I thought I owned the best devices, but everyone here said I didn't. I just want to know what are the best devices. I also own the Micomsoft Selecty-21, but I haven't mentioned it on here before. I use it in my JP-21 setup, but is there a better device that I should be using instead? What's better than the Selecty-21?

[Fudoh]

There are so many different approaches to capturing, so there's not really a definitive way.

In the end it comes down to your personal workflow and especially why you're capturing. What's your end format ?

For example: if you're capturing for Youtube (which is 4:2:0), then you don't really have to pay attention to capturing in 4:4:4 beforehand. Also if you're ok with upscaling prior to capturing and you're capturing in a resolution that's at least twice the pixel count on a single axis compared to your original source, then again 4:4:4 doesn't really matter.

I personally think that capturing in upscaled formats makes your life a lot easier.
If you use your Framemeister as a capture interface and use any 1080p HDMI capture device with it, you're good to go.

To achieve the very same result by first capturing native (e.g. 256x224px from a analogue source) is VERY VERY tricky and in most situations not worth the effort.

OSSC compared to FM in terms of capture: the OSSC has less noise introduced by its A/D stage, which is good. The advantage in 4:4:4 over 4:2:2 is only relevant if you want to capture in 4:4:4 and know what to do with a 4:4:4 signal. One argument in favor for 4:4:4 is taking pixel perfect screenshots.

[Fudoh]

suggesting that the Framemeister is still a good competition for the current OSSC.

it is. Unless you know that 4:2:2 is not good enough for you. And unless you want good 480i deinterlacing.

none of these take the same inputs as the XCapture-1, so I'm still not sure why the XCapture-1 is considered inferior to them, apart from the "4:2:2" instead of "4:4:4" thing.

The XCapture was meant for native capturing of various source signals. I have a hard time finding arguments for that in general. Once you're ok with the idea of using a capture interface separate from your actual capture card or box, then all you need is HDMI.

According to what I've been hearing, the OSSC Pro defeats the Framemeister.

it will have plenty of great features that the FM has not.

The SyncSlayer II defeats the XSync-1, whatever it does.

but then again: do even need such a device?

But what defeats the XCapture-1?

depends on the features you're looking for. Do you need an external device or are you ok with internal cards ?

If not, do you think a Framemeister successor would be better than the OSSC Pro? Would it even have the potential to be better?

Micomsoft doesn't have the man power and the japanese mentalitiy forbids to just build something based on the OSSC. I don't see a FM successor coming.

What's better than the Selecty-21?

that monstrous chinese switch that Bob just reviewed last week in his video (RetroRGB) which can be switched between EU-Scart and JP21 on the input side. Seems quite nice.

[NormalFish]

Stop looking for the best equipment for tasks you don't know if you need.

Decide what you want your set up to be. Research viable options and inform yourself what that set up might look like. Do you want lossless recordings? Are you focused on a home theater? Maybe you're intending to live stream.

Then come back and ask questions.

[Fudoh]

My experiences:

Epiphan

awesome internal card. External USB3 is bandwith limited on USB3, so it only goes up to 1080p 4:4:4 with roughly 40fps. Might work better on other USB chipsets. Got a 1080p internal one and the USB3 DVI to USB one.

Datapath

fantastic internal cards. The newer HDMI-only ones don't have perfect OSSC compatibility (NES/SNES jitter problem). Got the E1S and a 2-port HDMI one with 4K30 support. Don't recall the name right now.

Magewell

excellent. Internal and external. 4K60 on the internal one. The external ones are supposed to have good USB bandwith management. Can't confirm, as I only have the internal 4K60 one.

Avermedia

very different from the above ones. Consumer-grade instead. AFAIK the Amermedia will normalize your refresh rates, so you don't get native refresh rates. 4:4:4 support on some newer ones? I only have a LGP Portable 2 (external one with SD card recording, which is a big selling point though).

If you need an external recording box, but want the features of the internal ones, I have the above three working in a Thunderbolt box (but then again your PC requires Thunderbolt to utilize this).

[SavagePencil]

Went down a similar road. I found the XCapture-1 to be finicky and difficult to work with 240p analog signals; as you've discovered, drivers are all over the place and it is difficult to get consistent.

I never went down the JP21 road because I saw that there wasn't enough equipment out there to warrant it.

The OSSC has a steeper learning curve and doesn't do 480i as well as the FM. My current setup is gameplay happens straight on a CRT, with capture equipment via a separate cabling path. I use the OSSC to upscale and a Datapath card (in an external Thunderbolt enclosure) going to a 2015 MacBook Pro running Bootcamp.

My goals were:
1. To be able to PLAY games lag-free and with minimal hardware between console and CRT.
2. To be able to CAPTURE games at the highest quality. Lag and extra equipment were OK, as gameplay is happening on the TV.

This was an expensive journey and so I feel your pain.

To echo someone above me, be clear what your GOALS are and then work backwards to figure out the right equipment for them.

[XSync-1]

What's better than the Selecty-21?

that monstrous chinese switch that Bob just reviewed last week in his video (RetroRGB) which can be switched between EU-Scart and JP21 on the input side. Seems quite nice.

I'm thinking of getting the one that you were referring to, but the shipping is $55 for me and the total is about $300.
https://youtu.be/KeMPPyJAM_w?t=452
https://www.axunworks.com/SCA101-RGB-SC ... -p931.html

[Fudoh]

certainly on my to-buy list. I think it's slightly over-engineered and the it might be prone to failure down the road (due to the large mechanical multi-pin switches used inside), but the feature set (JP21 and EU-Scart support within the same setup and the horizontal and vertical shift controls) is awesome and extremely useful.

[XSync-1]

certainly on my to-buy list. I think it's slightly over-engineered and the it might be prone to failure down the road (due to the large mechanical multi-pin switches used inside), but the feature set (JP21 and EU-Scart support within the same setup and the horizontal and vertical shift controls) is awesome and extremely useful.

It looks like they charge $30 more for the black one over the green one.

[Fudoh]

The plates are pure PCBs, so the color is actually solder mask. Most PCB makers are more expensive, once you choose black solder mask (matte one at least).

[darcagn]

I've been feeling very crappy about my collection, ever since my first thread on this forum. I thought I owned the best devices, but everyone here said I didn't

Please don't do this to yourself. If you constantly try to have the best in this hobby, you will spend so much money and time chasing it that you won't have any room to actually enjoy using it.
Can't tell you how many times I spent money on having the best setup trying to make everything perfect and trying to satisfy the edge cases... just so a year or two later I could want to replace it with another product after having barely gotten the value out of the first...

Decide what you actually want to do and what will actually satisfy you for your own needs before you start making decisions based on what people on message boards rave about.
If you don't know you need it... chances are you don't

[SuperDeadite]

My setup is basically all Micomsoft, but I actually regularly need and use the more exotic features, such as switches for NEC/Sharp vs FM Towns output on Selecty21. Also my Selecty15 really simplifies hooking everything up to my arcade monitor.

My capture PC is forever staying on Win7, and it contains an SC-512NI-L/DVI with XSync-1. I keep it on old drivers, for 240p RGB capture. It may not be the best quality, but it is able to capture some of the weirder things I use. For example, this is the only way I've been able to capture RGB from my MSX PowerGraph Lite V9990 VDP cartridge. Even my XPC-4 absolutely hates it, but it works fine through the X-Sync.

So yeah, I quite like Micomsoft, but the quirks suit my needs, and being in Japan I got most of this stuff for honest prices.

[Austin]

The newer HDMI-only ones don't have perfect OSSC compatibility (NES/SNES jitter problem). Got the E1S and a 2-port HDMI one with 4K30 support. Don't recall the name right now.

If you recall the name, I'd be interested in looking into it. Love the reliability of my E1S. I'd like to do whatever I can to get away from using Elgato and other consumer-level devices for my HDMI stuff. I had always assumed DP's HDMI offerings were expensive though.

[Fudoh]

Mine is the Datapath VisionLC-HD2. But I also have the Magewell HDMI 4K Plus LT and I planned on swapping out the Datapath for the Magewell one day. At the moment the Magewell in installed on a Thunderbolt enclosure. Dual HDMI inputs are pretty useless unless you actually want to use the card for streaming two sources at the same time.

[fafangus]

I used to have a Xcapture1, but when I get the OSSC, it didn't match my expetation, so I get a Datapath Vision RGB, pcie based, and that was it.
The Xcapture1 is good because it got plenty of input, can handle 240p nativelly, but the timings with ossc where not that good, maybe now it's different

So, I also have a Avermedia 4k in USB 3, for 4k and HD material (witch include the C2), but not good at matching with the OSSC, I didn't investigate so much to be honest

Now with those 2 I'm fully satisfied, maybe I will get a future 4k60, but I want to go trickery over with Action! and see what I could do with my actual setup

The way you want/could use your caoture card will be determinating, if you could have a Datapath pcie card go for it,

[Mantrox]

Just wanted to chime in with my experience.
I’ve had an Epiphan DVI2USB 3.0 for 2 years.

It has worked flawlessly, is a great and compact card that’s very quick to respond and produces great image quality with very accurate colors.

BUT

Just a few days ago, it has developed a problem. When I enable sound capture through it, which I always did in the past; the capture freezes and becomes unusable. The only way I have been able to use it has been with the audio capture completely disabled.

I have ran through various diagnostic steps with no change.
The card is updated, the software as well, changed the cables, changed the drivers, changed the pc and changed the ports it’s connected to.
Zip.

I also have contacted their support but so far have heard nothing back.

So, just a heads up for someone interested in the brand.

I’ll probably be moving on to some Magewell Hardware in the future.

[XSync-1]

I'm having issues capturing footage from my Framemeister, and I don't know where else to ask for help. I was able to record footage from my Framemeister onto my XCapture-1 just a few days ago. I did a system restore, because of some Google Chrome related issues that I was having, and now I can't record my Framemeister anymore. I tried uninstalling the VideoKeeper software that the XCapture-1 uses, uninstalling the XCapture-1 drivers, deleting every key in my registry that was related to Micomsoft, Yuan, and CY3014 USB, then reinstalling everything and it doesn't make a difference. I tested the XCapture-1 with an HDMI DVD player, and it records fine. I tested a different XCapture-1 (because I have more than one of them), and it was the same. The Framemeister works when plugged into the TV. I reset the Framameister to factory settings, then formatted the micro SD card and installed firmware 2.4 again and there was no change. All I get when I plug the HDMI from the Framemeister into the XCapture-1 is a spinning wheel. I'm stumped. I don't know what happened to it, but it won't output into any of my XCapture-1 devices anymore. It works on the TV, but not the XCapture-1.

[Fudoh]

There's only so much you can try on the FM itself. Check the "HDMI SET" options. Make sure Deep Color is disabled. For DVI compatibility, it's better to set the output color to RGB instead of YCbCbr.

And try another HDMI cable of course.

If you're trying this with an active source, try without one. If you have the sync mode set to AUTO, the output will follow the input's refresh rate and I don't know how forgiving the XCAP is in this regard.

In the long run, consider another capture device. There are so many great ones out there and you probably wouldn't have much problems in getting rid of the XCAP units.

[XSync-1]

There's only so much you can try on the FM itself. Check the "HDMI SET" options. Make sure Deep Color is disabled. For DVI compatibility, it's better to set the output color to RGB instead of YCbCbr.

And try another HDMI cable of course.

If you're trying this with an active source, try without one. If you have the sync mode set to AUTO, the output will follow the input's refresh rate and I don't know how forgiving the XCAP is in this regard.

In the long run, consider another capture device. There are so many great ones out there and you probably wouldn't have much problems in getting rid of the XCAP units.

I will try these steps, and let you know if it worked; but first, I want to talk about other options for capture cards. You mentioned several brands to me Epiphan, Datapath, Magewell, and Avermedia. A few days ago, I looked up the most recommended brand which is Datapath. They are so expensive, and they don't take in HDMI. They take in either DVI or Display Port. Isn't DVI inferior to HDMI? Why would someone pay almost $3,000 for a DVI internal capture card, instead of one that has HDMI? Can you recommend a specific model that isn't way too expensive and has HDMI, like the XCapture-1 does?

[XSync-1]

There's only so much you can try on the FM itself. Check the "HDMI SET" options. Make sure Deep Color is disabled. For DVI compatibility, it's better to set the output color to RGB instead of YCbCbr.

And try another HDMI cable of course.

If you're trying this with an active source, try without one. If you have the sync mode set to AUTO, the output will follow the input's refresh rate and I don't know how forgiving the XCAP is in this regard.

In the long run, consider another capture device. There are so many great ones out there and you probably wouldn't have much problems in getting rid of the XCAP units.

I tried different hdmi cables. Deep color was disabled to begin with. I'm not sure where to find DVI compatibility, but is it relevant anyway if I'm using HDMI? I changed the sync mode from auto to off. Nothing changes. I just don't get it. I tried more than one computer. It was recording fine before. I didn't change any of its settings before, and it still showed up on a tv just fine. I don't understand why the capture device can't get the output anymore, and I tried multiple XCapture-1s.

[Austin]

I will try these steps, and let you know if it worked; but first, I want to talk about other options for capture cards. You mentioned several brands to me Epiphan, Datapath, Magewell, and Avermedia. A few days ago, I looked up the most recommended brand which is Datapath. They are so expensive, and they don't take in HDMI. They take in either DVI or Display Port. Isn't DVI inferior to HDMI? Why would someone pay almost $3,000 for a DVI internal capture card, instead of one that has HDMI? Can you recommend a specific model that isn't way too expensive and has HDMI, like the XCapture-1 does?

Datapath makes HDMI capture cards. I bought the one Fudoh mentioned a while back (Vision LC-HD2). It's very good. It's expensive if you get it new, but I was able to get a used one on eBay for a reasonable price.

The DVI cards you are looking at are generally older RGB cards. They are very good at what they do though. E1S is the common one and is pretty affordable, at under $100 these days.