RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

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kitty666cats
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174691081081


SUPER nice Faroudja decoder - my friend (the guy in the USA with several “Carmack-tron” 16:9 Integraph PC CRTs has a Faroudja VS50 and its composite to RGB is crazy good-looking, retains 240p and slaughters dot crawl... cool for un-modded NES, and obviously VHS and LD on pro monitors!
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kitty666cats
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265090784833

Also, this is a rebadge of the Kramer VM-19N, which I used to own. Crazy good deal! 240p is a go, a C64 or PC-FX owner should snag it!
fernan1234
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by fernan1234 »

Do we know if any of these meaningfully outperform an RT2X-M in passthrough mode + DAC?

Cool gear either way. That Ocean Matrix one seems to have sold quickly. Who here snatched it?

Any knowledge on this For-A DEC-110? https://www.ebay.com/itm//192855554082

The pic of the back is blurry so can't really tell what kind of inputs and outputs it has, but it says made in Japan which is generally a good sign.
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kitty666cats
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

fernan1234 wrote:Do we know if any of these meaningfully outperform an RT2X-M in passthrough mode + DAC?

Cool gear either way. That Ocean Matrix one seems to have sold quickly. Who here snatched it?

Any knowledge on this For-A DEC-110? https://www.ebay.com/itm//192855554082

The pic of the back is blurry so can't really tell what kind of inputs and outputs it has, but it says made in Japan which is generally a good sign.
RT2X passthrough and DAC is almost certainly your best bet, it’s just potentially costly. 240p not being ‘broken’ to 480i depends on what type of analog/digital circuitry lies within the device - generally, if one of these silly external decoders looks to be from roughly the mid/late 90s and anytime before then, passing 240p should be damn near guaranteed. Unless the item advertises/features Time Base Correction, buttons/knobs for any image adjustment beyond the more rudimentary stuff like image position.

I got the Ocean Matrix, after sending a $2 offer, just to confirm that it’s exactly like the VM-19N and to compare it to my CYP CMT-7 (the latter also was released by AVtoolbox). From there, I’m gonna make sure it goes to some sort of CRT/gamer/analog video nerd like all of us! Heh.

Oh, and RE: that For-A unit... they made a ton of TBCs and Frame Synchronizers etc, but that unit seems to be lacking anything like that. Worth a shot I suppose, but if I were to go hogwild and get either the For-A or the Faroudja? Faroudja 100%.
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/224436900855

Currently selling one of these suckers, it’s a re-badged Kramer VM-19N. Disregard the price on there, it’s meaningless - that’s why I have “best offer” as an option too :P

If any of you folks are interested in this unit, I would be glad to sell it to you privately off-eBay. Just PM me or something if you’re interested. The VGA out can also output RGBS, so if you have a ‘dumb’ VGA to SCART cable wired for RGBS (like the ones for MiSTER etc) I would suggest connecting to a OSSC that way (or a 4BNC to male SCART wired for BNC source/SCART output). That way you can implement the LPF that OSSC’s AV3 is lacking!
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by fernan1234 »

I was thinking of making the bizarro world version of this topic, but I'll just ask the question here:

Does anyone know what devices are the best at breaking 240p 15khz into 480i 15khz? I know the original post and others in this topic have mentioned several devices that do break 240p, but not with much details since that's what everyone here wants to avoid. But for very specific reasons I'm looking for any device that will take 240p in and output a nice, stable, and otherwise "accurate" 480i output, not something that will look flickery or distorted, but the same image simply "standardized" for a monitor that cannot display 240p but can display 480i (if you're curious, it's for a bunch of different flat panel Sony BVMs with an RGBS input card).

Appreciate any suggestions.
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by Guile »

fernan1234 wrote:I was thinking of making the bizarro world version of this topic, but I'll just ask the question here:

Does anyone know what devices are the best at breaking 240p 15khz into 480i 15khz? I know the original post and others in this topic have mentioned several devices that do break 240p, but not with much details since that's what everyone here wants to avoid. But for very specific reasons I'm looking for any device that will take 240p in and output a nice, stable, and otherwise "accurate" 480i output, not something that will look flickery or distorted, but the same image simply "standardized" for a monitor that cannot display 240p but can display 480i (if you're curious, it's for a bunch of different flat panel Sony BVMs with an RGBS input card).

Appreciate any suggestions.
Can't you double 240p to 480p with an ossc then run it to an Extron vsc to get rgb 480i?

On the topic of this thread,

I just tested a very weird Extron System 4 ldxi line doubling switch that can take rgb, composite, and svideo and output rgb. I don't have a whole rgb setup or svideo breakout cables so I only tested composite from a gamecube and 5 bnc to vga. It seemed like the lag was quite low and the picture was decent but too bright in white areas.

It has a setting for motion or still line doubling and can also output the signal not line doubled. It felt like the motion setting had slightly less lag which surprised me.

The line doubling made it sharper but it looked like there was heavy combing with fast motion.
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by fernan1234 »

Guile wrote:Can't you double 240p to 480p with an ossc then run it to an Extron vsc to get rgb 480i?
This is an option but it would be kind of convoluted with three devices on the chain (a DAC would be needed in between the OSSC and VSC), and also in my experience the 480p -> 480i conversion the VSC does is good but not optimal. A single device that can do this as well or better is likely among the devices that people have tested in this topic.
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kitty666cats
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

Lots of DVD recorders will do 240p in -> 480i component out, but most of them only have composite and S-vid for inputs
fernan1234
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by fernan1234 »

That's true, but what I need the most is RGB to RGB. I do have a Sony DSC-1024 HD stored up, which does have the required inputs and outputs, and I think is mentioned here as "breaking" 240p, though of course with no interest on how "well" it does so. I'll have to dig it out and test to see how it does.
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... coder.html

Image

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Moderate necro-bump, but has ANYONE ever got their hands on a Kramer FC-10DXL to fiddle around with? These things seem ultra-rare; just about as rare as the FC-15 & FC-4 (not that anyone is missing too much RE: the FC-4... recently I sold a really cool 27" SD Toshiba consumer CRT to ldeveraux as he lives a few towns over which had a built-in VCR and DVD player, ATSC tuner, digital audio output, USB input AND component output... hell of a consumer CRT! He traded me his FC-4 that I found on eBay eons ago, and it's nothing more than a CSY-2100. Of course, CSY-2100s aren't bad / it had a nicer case. CSY-2100 *clones* are the poopy ones). The FC-10DXL doesn't seem to have any Time Base Correction, just a 3D comb filter, so I would imagine it can probably pass 240p. As a bonus, the YPbPr output can also be set to stupid ol' RsGsBs sync-on-all, too! Which I think SOME Extron interfaces can convert to RGsB RGBS or RGBHV...? Maybe not, I know most if not all RGB interfaces strictly pass through said odd signal. Pretty interesting lil' unit, but clearly not worth the asking price of $316.00 on this Adorama link, heh - https://www.adorama.com/krfc10dxl.html

https://k.kramerav.com/downloads/pdf/pr ... -10Dxl.pdf
http://www.kramerel.org/downloads/manuals/fc-10dxl.pdf
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Re: RGB Decoders & Encoders (non-scaling) that support 240p

Post by kitty666cats »

:shock: Bumping this thread for the hell of it, in case anyone has come across anything funky in the past couple years :)

There’s those OSSC add-on boards made by Kaico/BitFunx which look kinda interesting, haven’t tried one. Composite and S-Video in, component and RGB SCART out. I’ve seen people whine and talk shit calling it a Koryuu clone… but, just look at one of the things. It clearly isn’t, haha. I’m gonna say what a lot of people seem to never say, but the Koryuu fucking sucks tbh. Haha.

https://kaicolabs.com/product/kaico-oss ... -on-board/

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I *have* noticed there’s an optional line double mode, as well as a smoothing filter? Gives vibes that maybe it’s a sick and twisted Frankenstein RT2X clone (only with analog outputs), but it doesn’t look particularly like one of those either…? IDK, who cares. RetroTink has HDMI out, different story there anyway.

I’ve seen people online mention having bad/no luck using these add on boards as frontends for GBSC units, as well as poor luck as silly-ass composite/Svid to RGB/component passthrough converters for 15kHz CRTs.

The latter scenario is a LITTLE silly, but on certain decoders I‘ve owned N64 S-Video in -> RGB/YPbPr out can look pretty nice on certain CRTs. Also, maybe the people who had trouble chaining with GBSC’s were just inept. It WAS a FB group I saw folks having issues in, after all. Hahaha

On aforementioned decoders I’ve used for Svid to RGB on borrowed N64s to putz around, they retained the great sharpness of Svid but also got a bit of a boost to the vibrance of the colors. The decoders were shakin’ their booties trying to ACTUALLY make the conversion to RGB from Svid an actually decent foray to try for ppl who don’t wanna RGB mod a N64 in an otherwise all-RGB setup.

I really only use these types of things for VHS and Laserdiscs 90% of the time (composite comb filter on my presentation monitor is SUPER, SUPER HORRIBLE and also my Apple IIgs monitor is 15kHz RGBS-only) but they can have their time and place for vidya. Aforementioned N64 situation, PC-FX freaks who also wanna use one in an otherwise all-RGB setup… yada yada.

I wouldn’t be shocked if I’ve posted it on one the earlier thread pages before, but my CYP CMT-7 is unarguably the most vibrant one I have. I picked up this (literally) one-of-a-kind DWIN decoder for super cheap on eBay two summers ago, this totally kicks ass too:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cvp0Z1pp ... Q0dGpmeGN4

My friend managed to find some old DWIN remote codes online for this fucker and he proceeded to give me his Logitech remote! Such a G. Once I dial shit in some more, it will probably outshine the CYP by leaps and bounds.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WARNING WITH A THREAT OF DOOM:


People better not start talking about RGB -> component and component -> RGB transcoders in here again, lol. This thread is about DECODERS (composite/ideally also Svid converted up to RGB and/or component) and ENCODERS (RGB and/or component converted down to - usually - both composite and Svid).

This thread’s ALSO specifically about units that are strictly SD / 15kHz. I mentioned 240p support in the title, but at this point I’d always be plenty interested to see some funky ones that only do 480i as well! Gonna cut some slack on that earlier OSSC add on board since the line doubling and filtering are apparently optional.

BTW that insanely rare DWIN one in the clip I posted supports 240p, just like the Kramer VM-19N (owned briefly) and CYP CMT-7 (still own). Keep an eye out for a mild issue with the older simpler Kramer decoders, I’ve seen several with occasional odd blue-tinted greens. One of my own, one a friend bought and a rebadge by Ocean Matrix.

Last converter: I got one of these weird fucks below on eBay for cheap yearsss ago, no 240p support. I probably ALSO posted one of these in this thread already years ago, would not surprise me. I emailed the company once trying to figure out what the HELL the chipset may be inside it, but they apparently got em from a different vendor, on top of now being discontinued.

https://www.svideo.com/svc2ypbpr.html

Anyone who ever spent that $199 asking price on one of these eons ago must have felt like a total idiot, or tricked their eyes into thinking shit looked better just because they spent a lot. Things suckkkkk, lol

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Okayyy, jeez, enough. HIP HIP HOORAY for these specific types of converters that truly only serve quite niche use cases/aren’t really a good choice for video games except for frontends to a *couple* scalers and, arguably per my above opinions, not shabby for N64 or PC-FX!

Oh. I also forgot: stay the FUCK away from any and all that look like this…

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…you’re not going to find any under $90, and they are supreme shit. Even a Koryuu is gonna blow one of these away.
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