How do you feel about the digital only future of consoles?

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Issac Zachary
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Issac Zachary »

bobrocks95 wrote:Sure, but so is jaywalking. You want to buy Simpsons arcade, but there's no way for you to pay Konami any money for it whatsoever... What are you going to do?
  1. Not do anything.
  2. Hack my PS3 and download the game from some ROM site.
  3. Buy a $4,000 arcade machine and also pay $600 more in rent per month so as to have a big enough home to put it in.
I must say that you do have a convincing argument.
Rare has been owned by Microsoft for 15 years so Banjo-Kazooie is on Xbox 360 and Xbox One.
Interesting, thanks! First time I've heard of a game I know on anything Xbox.
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Udderdude
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Udderdude »

As if all this crap isn't bad enough, now we've got an issue where if the PS3 and PS4 clock battery dies, even if you replace it, you can't run any of your digital games until you re-connect to Sony's servers. So what happens if their servers are permanently offline? You're fucked.

And as an added extra special kick in the nuts, on PS4, it affects PHYSICAL DISCS. Yeah, that's right. If your PS4's battery dies, and Sony's servers are down, your PS4 is now a brick and your game discs are now drink coasters, even if you replace the battery. Better hope for a jailbreak, or you're screwed.

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/ ... 8283469826
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vol.2
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by vol.2 »

Udderdude wrote:If your PS4's battery dies, and Sony's servers are down, your PS4 is now a brick and your game discs are now drink coasters, even if you replace the battery. Better hope for a jailbreak, or you're screwed.
In old NES carts, I used to solder a battery on while the old one still had some charge left and then clip off the old one. If you are super concerned, might try some version of that. (though I'm not sure how much more complicated the battery backup system is in the PS4)
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Udderdude
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Udderdude »

Yeah, that trick would work, if you do it pre-emptively. Or you could hope someone comes up with a fake server and hope you can fool the PS4 into connecting to it by changing your DNS settings.
fernan1234
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by fernan1234 »

Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
ldeveraux
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by ldeveraux »

fernan1234 wrote:Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
Or not playing their digital only games. We can speak with our wallets, but will only get so far.
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BryanM
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by BryanM »

And down goes Stadia.

This is about when I felt like it'd die. You've got to be a hyper over the top masochist to be an early adapter of any google thing.

Surprised there will be refunds.
Issac Zachary
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Issac Zachary »

ldeveraux wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
Or not playing their digital only games. We can speak with our wallets, but will only get so far.
That's like refusing to buy SUV's and only buying station wagons. You either have to stay with old stuff or something really expensive since no one else buys station wagons anymore, at least in the USA.
ldeveraux
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by ldeveraux »

Issac Zachary wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
Or not playing their digital only games. We can speak with our wallets, but will only get so far.
That's like refusing to buy SUV's and only buying station wagons. You either have to stay with old stuff or something really expensive since no one else buys station wagons anymore, at least in the USA.
No, it's like refusing to play the latest games because they are digital only. Just like i said.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Lord of Pirates »

fernan1234 wrote:Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
You're better off doing it as soon as possible unless you want to play online or lack patience for games to become playable on older FW.
ldeveraux wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:Eventually, jailbreaking these consoles will become mandatory. Discs can be dumped, made into fake packages, and installed in the event that a console loses game disc playback due to dead PSN servers.
Or not playing their digital only games. We can speak with our wallets, but will only get so far.
I haven't given Valve a single penny. I've only briefly used Steam once. I don't think I've made a dent yet, maybe someday 8).
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Sumez
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Sumez »

Bumping a dormant thread to dig up a two year old post, in order to add a non-sensical car analogy that's much harder to parse than the original statement was?


Why do people always use cars in their analogies?



Fuck cars
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orange808
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by orange808 »

Wagons have been rebranded as "crossovers".

Lots of people drive station wagons. They changed the name. You're still driving a wagon. Making it smaller and changing the rear door to a hatchback doesn't make a station wagon into something different. It's a wagon. Smaller footprints are the standard across the industry. It's still a wagon.

People drive station wagons all the time. They just won't admit it.
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Issac Zachary
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Issac Zachary »

orange808 wrote:Wagons have been rebranded as "crossovers".

Lots of people drive station wagons. They changed the name. You're still driving a wagon. Making it smaller and changing the rear door to a hatchback doesn't make a station wagon into something different. It's a wagon. Smaller footprints are the standard across the industry. It's still a wagon.

People drive station wagons all the time. They just won't admit it.
I disagree. Crossovers are taller and have shorter wheel bases. That may not sound like much but it makes a huge difference in aerodynamics and also increases the probability of a rollover.

Take the Mazda CR-5 crossover which replaced the Mazda6 Wagon. The wagon had more passenger space, more cargo space, more power, got better fuel mileage and cost less than the crossover. The reason was the higher profile of a crossover hurts aerodynamic drag and therefore in the beginning car manufacturers had to tune them to try to get better fuel mileage at the cost of power, but still got worse fuel mileage.

There's also the "sedan feel" of a station wagon. Being closer to the ground feels different and helps with stability.
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Koa Zo
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Koa Zo »

I drive a Subaru Crosstrek. I know it's a glorified station wagon.

regarding the thread topic... I thought I'd have a PS4 to play my disc games forever after. Didn't know or think of internal battery issue...
Also I'm now wondering if Sony will force obselecence and broken functionality through updates.
A couple months ago after the last update, my Vizio TV will no longer properly recognize the PS4 powering on.
This happened immediately after the update and has continued to be a problem
When turning on the PS4 it will also turn on the TV like it has for years... but then TV doesn't display anything and goes to no signal.
Spent a stupid amount of time troubleshooting this - various cables, other inputs, other devices (everything else functions fine, only issue is with PS4)... only workaround is to turn on the TV first and then the PS4. ..if the timing isn't right it won't recognize the PS4 no matter what and I'll have to go into the TV menu and reboot the TV for it to recognize the PS4.

Again, this never happened in all the years of owning this TV and PS4, started happening immediately after the last update.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Konsolkongen »

The battery problem has been resolved for both the PS3 and PS4 in firmwares and I assume PS5 as well, if it ever had that problem to begin with.
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Koa Zo
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Koa Zo »

Konsolkongen wrote:The battery problem has been resolved for both the PS3 and PS4 in firmwares and I assume PS5 as well, if it ever had that problem to begin with.
Thanks. good to know
now that just leaves the issue of updates breaking the systems.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by jd213 »

I wouldn't worry about it too much, every major firmware release will probably be hacked eventually, especially now that the PS4 is at the end of its lifecycle, and hackers would be even more motivated if Sony did something did something anti-consumer like that.
Issac Zachary
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Issac Zachary »

Koa Zo wrote:I drive a Subaru Crosstrek. I know it's a glorified station wagon.

regarding the thread topic... I thought I'd have a PS4 to play my disc games forever after. Didn't know or think of internal battery issue...
Also I'm now wondering if Sony will force obselecence and broken functionality through updates.
A couple months ago after the last update, my Vizio TV will no longer properly recognize the PS4 powering on.
This happened immediately after the update and has continued to be a problem
When turning on the PS4 it will also turn on the TV like it has for years... but then TV doesn't display anything and goes to no signal.
Spent a stupid amount of time troubleshooting this - various cables, other inputs, other devices (everything else functions fine, only issue is with PS4)... only workaround is to turn on the TV first and then the PS4. ..if the timing isn't right it won't recognize the PS4 no matter what and I'll have to go into the TV menu and reboot the TV for it to recognize the PS4.

Again, this never happened in all the years of owning this TV and PS4, started happening immediately after the last update.
Subaru does market their station wagons as SUV's nowadays. Their Outback is clearly a station wagon but is now marketed as an SUV.

Anywho, as far as digital only goes my own feelings are that there are way too many older games I have not yet played. I'd rather collect old consoles and computers and find old games to play on them than to buy or subscribe to non-physical media for gaming, unless that non-physical media can be copied and backed up in a way that it's 100% mine, not "mine" until the cloud server it's on is disabled and my console dies and needs repaired. (Same with music, movies, etc.).

The only drawback is that as collectors collect and things break these older consoles and games get more and more expensive. Some parts can be replaced by something new, like an FPGA console. But the games must either be bought at the going price or pirated, which may not be an acceptable option for everyone.

The good news is that older consoles can be repaired. I hope more companies will begin to sell legally older games on new cartridges and disks too, but I dont' see certain companies ever doing that.
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vol.2
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by vol.2 »

The official digital future of consoles/are crossovers station wagons thread

I have a 2017 Forester, and it's definitely a station wagon. It's kinda on the edge, but I think the Crosstrek is too short to be a station wagon, it's a hatchback sedan similar to the Civic hatch et al.

RE console future; they are fast evolving into custom PCs with proprietary front-ends. I'm sure they will be jailbreak-able into the future, and you'll be able to run some OS on them to play roms or somethings. The CPU/GPU architecture may even be similar enough to where a regular OS like Windows or a Linux can be run, and you can just install Steam and download games to the SSD

The real question (one which I've been thinking about for 30+ years), is why would anyone buy a separate games computer when you can buy a regular PC that functions both ways? The only current answer is console exclusive titles, but that advantage is disappearing. In order to keep people on the hook for subsequent generations, console manufacturers must undercut the cost of a new gaming PC.

How good of a deal is the PS5? Do you think it's a good buy against a similarly capable PC with a decent GPU? How good of a buy will the PS6 be?
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Sumez »

vol.2 wrote:The real question (one which I've been thinking about for 30+ years), is why would anyone buy a separate games computer when you can buy a regular PC that functions both ways?
Personally I wonder why you would want to buy a PC for video games when you can just use a dedicated console.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Issac Zachary »

Sumez wrote:
vol.2 wrote:The real question (one which I've been thinking about for 30+ years), is why would anyone buy a separate games computer when you can buy a regular PC that functions both ways?
Personally I wonder why you would want to buy a PC for video games when you can just use a dedicated console.
Pros and cons.

When people talk about whether iOS or Android is better (or Windows or MacOS or Linux or ChromeOS, etc) I always say "get the one that has the apps (or games) you want."

For example: I like Portal, a lot of MS-DOS games and older console games from 8 bit era up through the Wii era. About the only new console game I'm interested in is Metroid Dread. Even though I love the Legend of Zelda and Super Mario, the newest in those series on the Switch don't appeal to me. The latest Gran Turismo appeals to me, but they killed any plans for me to buy a new PlayStation and that game when they decided to make it work only with an internet conection. Plus I'm not going to get a new console to play just one game. As a result, although most, if not all the games I do play can run or be emulated on a PC, I personally prefer original consoles or FPGA means of playing those games.

The point is, there is no one-size-fits-all way to game.
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Kez
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Kez »

vol.2 wrote:The real question (one which I've been thinking about for 30+ years), is why would anyone buy a separate games computer when you can buy a regular PC that functions both ways?
There are plenty of good reasons for this. Personally I am wrestling with the idea of getting a PS5, simply because I work all day at my PC. It is a decent gaming rig, but it is not really feasible to hook it up in my living room. Many people just want the streamlined experience that is associated with console gaming.
vol.2 wrote:How good of a deal is the PS5? Do you think it's a good buy against a similarly capable PC with a decent GPU?
Yes, a PS5 is said to be about the equivalent of a 2070 Super. Which today still costs way more than half of a PS5, with no additional components. Consoles are very cost optimized vs a PC, even if you build it yourself which many people have no experience of. If you did have a PC with identical specs to a PS5, there is no guarantee it will perform as well. Console games are well optimized for that specific hardware, and there are comparatively few system overheads vs a desktop PC, and PC ports of games are often handled poorly on top of that.
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Austin
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Austin »

As I've gotten older, I've found--at least for me--is that a huge part of the console-vs-PC debate really comes down to convenience and comfort. If I was out doing physical labor like I was in my younger years, I'd be down for gaming more on PCs, but now that I'm in IT, the last thing I want to do is sit on a computer at the end of the work day. That's not to say that I don't, it's just heavily mood dependent with me generally preferring consoles.

My consoles are hooked to a big screen TV where I can view it from a comfortable couch. My primary workstation is in my game room on a comparatively small LCD panel that has me desk-bound, and with everything I have connected to it, there's no way in hell I can bring it into the living room. Also, despite it being more capable than my consoles, there are far more strings attached in order to use (and enjoy it). System updates? They take significantly longer than on a modern console (where the newer storage tech makes them fairly painless, especially on the PS5 side). A device stops working? Have to troubleshoot it. Games aren't displaying properly or have glitches? Have to troubleshoot it. Games don't even work? Time to troubleshoot. Windows decides it wants to stop applying updates properly (which I am currently dealing with right now on one of my builds)? Have to troubleshoot and possibly reinstall the entire OS.

There are so many strings attached with PCs that the "Just get a PC" statement always bugs the hell out of me. There are plenty of pros/cons to both sides, but consoles are very low barrier to entry, and for most, will make for more comfortable experiences on a living room TV.
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Sumez
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Sumez »

That's my experience exactly. PC gamers will tell you that PC games nowadays are much more streamlined and plug-n-play, especially with things like Steam. And I believe that, but only to some extent.
At least the last three times I've visited someone and sat down to play a game there on their PC, there's been some sort of issue that needed to be sorted out before we could play it. It's just not something I feel like bothering with. And honestly lengthy installations, patches and system updates on consoles rub me the wrong way as well - it's especially painful on PS4. The Switch somehow manages to feel much less intrusive, even when doing the same things.

I ended up never playing SF5 Arcade Edition because I couldn't be bothered with all the partial installs you had to put up with, as well as the whole account/community thing it keeps dragging over you. Felt way too much like a "PC game" to me.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Udderdude »

Steam Deck is more streamlined than ever, but it's got compatibility issues with games .. go figure.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Lord of Pirates »

Austin wrote:As I've gotten older, I've found--at least for me--is that a huge part of the console-vs-PC debate really comes down to convenience and comfort. If I was out doing physical labor like I was in my younger years, I'd be down for gaming more on PCs, but now that I'm in IT, the last thing I want to do is sit on a computer at the end of the work day. That's not to say that I don't, it's just heavily mood dependent with me generally preferring consoles.

My consoles are hooked to a big screen TV where I can view it from a comfortable couch. My primary workstation is in my game room on a comparatively small LCD panel that has me desk-bound, and with everything I have connected to it, there's no way in hell I can bring it into the living room. Also, despite it being more capable than my consoles, there are far more strings attached in order to use (and enjoy it). System updates? They take significantly longer than on a modern console (where the newer storage tech makes them fairly painless, especially on the PS5 side). A device stops working? Have to troubleshoot it. Games aren't displaying properly or have glitches? Have to troubleshoot it. Games don't even work? Time to troubleshoot. Windows decides it wants to stop applying updates properly (which I am currently dealing with right now on one of my builds)? Have to troubleshoot and possibly reinstall the entire OS.

There are so many strings attached with PCs that the "Just get a PC" statement always bugs the hell out of me. There are plenty of pros/cons to both sides, but consoles are very low barrier to entry, and for most, will make for more comfortable experiences on a living room TV.
I agree on consoles having a low barrier to entry but, someone only interested in playing games can circumvent many of the issues you're comparing. The computer can be left attached to display of choice, updates can be turned off (annoying to do, but possible for W10), and being able to troubleshoot is a benefit regardless of whether or not someone wants to. Not that I'd recommend assembling a computer in the current market.
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orange808
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by orange808 »

Sumez wrote:That's my experience exactly. PC gamers will tell you that PC games nowadays are much more streamlined and plug-n-play...
I wouldn't tell you that at all.

I can still spend as much time as ever (or more) getting games configured, just right, before I play them.

On the other hand, my gaming experience is quite good. Everything is the way I want it (within the limitations of the rig). Same as it ever was. That's PC gaming. I think console gaming is where more complexity creeped in a little.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by TooBeaucoup »

As someone who has a PS5 and a monster PC, I will always prefer my PC. Unlimited graphical customization (Nice to automatically be able to disable garbage motion blur lol), free mods that extend the life of my games 10 times over, basically unlimited backward compatibility (PC games from 40 years ago will work with minimal hassle) and the ability to just drop a new GPU in and revitalize my system. NOW, granted, GPU prices have gotten absolutely out of control lately, so you have to be willing to drop a bit of money at times, but for me, as gaming being my main hobby, it's a nonissue. I just dropped a 7900XTX in my PC. Nothing like playing brand-new releases at native 4k, settings cranked to ultra and 200FPS. You're not doing that shlt on the PS5 or XBox. My PC is on my entertainment stand in the living room hooked to my 65" 4k TV, and I play from my couch with a wireless keyboard and mouse or wireless XBox Series X controller.

Also, can't say I typically have to do much tinkering before being able to play my games. Unless there's a really pathetic PC port like The Last of Us remastered. Truth be told, I think I've typically had to wait longer to play on my PS5 if I want to install a patch or update before I play (Assuming I don't choose to skip it at that moment). For me, this generation is kind of a wash for usability. Last gen, I'd still have given the nod to console, but I've probably experienced more game crashes sending me to the PS5 dashboard with an error message in the last two years than I have with any of my PC games. I'd say for the last 10 years things have been pretty plug and play. I download a game, turn on my wireless controller or keyboard and play. It's truly been that simple for me. 99% of the time, that is. There's always that one-off game that gives you a few hiccups thanks to lazy devs.

That said, consoles certainly have the price to performance nod this gen. Last gen, definitely not, but GPUs have gotten so astronomically expensive in the last two years, it's ridiculous.

Still really enjoy my PS5, so don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not biased. I just think the PC pros far outweigh any cons, for me, personally.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by Udderdude »

Piss5 digital only :lol:
Xbawx Series Shit :lol:
Digital only console exclusives :lol:
Discs/carts that are unplayable w/o patches :lol:
Denuvo :lol:

If I don't have a physical copy (working w/o patches) or a way to back up the game DRM-free, I don't have it. Period.
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Re: How do you feel about the digital only future of console

Post by ldeveraux »

Udderdude wrote:Piss5 digital only :lol:
Xbawx Series Shit :lol:
Digital only console exclusives :lol:
Discs/carts that are unplayable w/o patches :lol:
Denuvo :lol:

If I don't have a physical copy (working w/o patches) or a way to back up the game DRM-free, I don't have it. Period.
I fully expect the next generation of console to be completely physical discless with the exception being whatever Nintendo tries next. It's stupid, just don't buy them if you don't like them. For the record, they still put new games out on disc for the PS4, probably the XBOX One as well.
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