Buy 4K or 8K for next gen consoles

[kamiboy]

That is true, but all major streaming services are there. Some obscure ones for danish market are there too, my brother uses those.

[Guspaz]

Right, but the biggest (and, well, only major) streaming service in Canada is not. Samsung TVs have it, though, as does Android TV and Apple TV and Roku and Chromecast and Amazon Fire. I guess LG is the only major smart TV platform that is missing it.

[ldeveraux]

The inability to turn off the mouse pointer thing on LG TVs is slightly annoying, though.

webOS started out life as the operating system of the failed Palm Pre smartphones, which were basically ahead of their time in terms of multitasking functionality but didn't have the hardware to make such a system usable. It's a Linux-based OS, like Android.

Application support is weaker than Android, and you may find that not all streaming services are supported by the TV, requiring the use of external devices. Six years after launch, and despite it having apps for a ton of different platforms, CraveTV, the largest streaming service in Canada and only way to stream HBO in the country, is still not supported, for example. The LG app store is like 95% Korean shovelware and there are less than 600 apps in total.

I agree with this completely! This is why I use a universal remote and an attached Roku!

[Revolver Ocelot]

I do not think that there is a point in considering a 8k TV for gaming now. I am aware that the next gen consoles or at least the ps5 can output 8k but it is doubtful that it is using for gaming. Maybe for some move outputs. So for gaming a 4k display should suffice.

I am also on the fence if I should get a new tv together with ps5.

As already mentioned the LG oleds have a good reputation for gaming. I have read many good things about them. The LG C9 is among the favorites for gamers.

I am interested in the LG CX. If is still available in mid 2021 i might get one of them as well.

The LG CX has only started to appear in shops recently and will be heavily discounted by the time 2021 rolls around. You will probably be able to purchase a CX for a good price Q1 next year.

Thanks for the info. That is good news then. I hope I might be lucky.

Actually I also would not mind to get a brand new model series but I still prefer to get a already tested model because of my retro gaming needs. The OSSC is quite picky and not every TV can use every mode, so it is good to wait and see if the TV is fully compatible with all modes of the OSSC.

[kamiboy]

Seing as how HDMI 2.1 televisions will support VRR, and CX supports other similar standards the onus is now more on retro gaming upscaler devices to support such standards and put an end to such annoying incompatibilities once and for all. Any such future device that does not aim to support VRR and 4k out of the box is obsolete in my opinion.

[fernan1234]

Seing as how HDMI 2.1 televisions will support VRR, and CX supports other similar standards the onus is now more on retro gaming upscaler devices to support such standards and put an end to such annoying incompatibilities once and for all. Any such future device that does not aim to support VRR and 4k out of the box is obsolete in my opinion.

Dang is that a shot at the OSSC Pro? Honestly I don't think 4K output is that important for a retro game scaler. Built in scalers on TVs do very well upscaling 1080p. And VRR is really only something beneficial for crappy modern games with bad frame rates, as to avoid tearing. The best that a retro game scaler can offer is options to choose between a standardized refresh rate (60Hz) for compatibility with any panel at the cost of cyclical hiccups, or the original system's refresh rate, which may or may not be displayed on a given panel. But in either case, the refresh rate from old systems is constant.

[bobrocks95]

Seing as how HDMI 2.1 televisions will support VRR, and CX supports other similar standards the onus is now more on retro gaming upscaler devices to support such standards and put an end to such annoying incompatibilities once and for all. Any such future device that does not aim to support VRR and 4k out of the box is obsolete in my opinion.

Dang is that a shot at the OSSC Pro? Honestly I don't think 4K output is that important for a retro game scaler. Built in scalers on TVs do very well upscaling 1080p. And VRR is really only something beneficial for crappy modern games with bad frame rates, as to avoid tearing. The best that a retro game scaler can offer is options to choose between a standardized refresh rate (60Hz) for compatibility with any panel at the cost of cyclical hiccups, or the original system's refresh rate, which may or may not be displayed on a given panel. But in either case, the refresh rate from old systems is constant.

VRR support on the OSSC Pro would improve compatibility with original console refresh rates.

[ZellSF]

Seing as how HDMI 2.1 televisions will support VRR, and CX supports other similar standards the onus is now more on retro gaming upscaler devices to support such standards and put an end to such annoying incompatibilities once and for all. Any such future device that does not aim to support VRR and 4k out of the box is obsolete in my opinion.

Dang is that a shot at the OSSC Pro? Honestly I don't think 4K output is that important for a retro game scaler. Built in scalers on TVs do very well upscaling 1080p. And VRR is really only something beneficial for crappy modern games with bad frame rates, as to avoid tearing. The best that a retro game scaler can offer is options to choose between a standardized refresh rate (60Hz) for compatibility with any panel at the cost of cyclical hiccups, or the original system's refresh rate, which may or may not be displayed on a given panel. But in either case, the refresh rate from old systems is constant.

VRR support on the OSSC Pro would improve compatibility with original console refresh rates.

Would it though? I mean it sounds a bit like guesswork at this stage.

Traditional 60hz locked TVs might do frame duplication with say 58hz, but that doesn't mean a VRR TV will. And a VRR TV would be made to actually be able to display 58 updates a second, so it sounds more likely it will display it properly.

Unless you mean in terms of mode switching, because I doubt anything will change there (mode changes will be slow) and there a scaler being able to smoothly transition between the refresh rates of the two different modes might help. Then again I found the list of mode switching games to be small as is and when you think about how many games need smooth framerates in both modes they use it gets even smaller.

And VRR is really only something beneficial for crappy modern games with bad frame rates, as to avoid tearing.

Um, no?

Or is 60 FPS with dips to 50 considered bad framerate now?

Not that I'm going to disagree if you say it is, games should ideally be running at the very least 85+ FPS.

[PearlJammzz]

Seing as how HDMI 2.1 televisions will support VRR, and CX supports other similar standards the onus is now more on retro gaming upscaler devices to support such standards and put an end to such annoying incompatibilities once and for all. Any such future device that does not aim to support VRR and 4k out of the box is obsolete in my opinion.

Dang is that a shot at the OSSC Pro? Honestly I don't think 4K output is that important for a retro game scaler. Built in scalers on TVs do very well upscaling 1080p. And VRR is really only something beneficial for crappy modern games with bad frame rates, as to avoid tearing. The best that a retro game scaler can offer is options to choose between a standardized refresh rate (60Hz) for compatibility with any panel at the cost of cyclical hiccups, or the original system's refresh rate, which may or may not be displayed on a given panel. But in either case, the refresh rate from old systems is constant.

VRR support on the OSSC Pro would improve compatibility with original console refresh rates.

From my understanding it wouldn't need any VRR at all because the refresh rate isn't actually variable. If a panel supports the range of refresh that your console outputs (say 60.08hz like the SNES) it should just work given that signal. I could be mistaken but I don't think there is any flag that needs to be sent as the panel can already support that oddball refresh rate. Basically, panels with VRR/HDMI2.1 controllers just have a higher chance of being compatible with oddball refresh rates than TVs that don't.

What I'd like to see is QMS for resolution switching in classic consoles. It may be easier to just do that internally on the device though and just send the TV a constant signal. I suppose VRR could help in this instance too if it keeps the TV from doing a resync on the signal. Again, not sure if any special flag would have to be sent or not.

Um, no?

Or is 60 FPS with dips to 50 considered bad framerate now?

Not that I'm going to disagree if you say it is, games should ideally be running at the very least 85+ FPS.

Kind of. VRR, DRS, checkerboard rendering, DLSS, etc. are just all ways to improve graphics while keeping the costs reasonable and the experience great. Ideally next-gen will have VRR and DRS in some form for almost every game. If done right you won't be able to feel or see any difference when you play the game and it will keep the experience not only pretty but consistent. For input latency you'd still want to keep the frame rate as consistent as possible but that's not always possible depending on how the developers want to express their art. We should see a LOT more games targeting 60fps (even 4k games) with all of these new advancements. It may not be 'true' 4k and yes, that frame rate may drop down to 50 at times but as long as it's not in your face the experience should be great.

[Guspaz]

VRR, however, gaurantees that any refresh rate timing at all between the min and max will work. And it would also support refresh rate changes (as happen during 240p/480i/480p switches, which some games do frequently) without even a blip.

HDMI 2.1 actually has a feature called "Quick Media Switching" that prevents image dropouts during refresh rate changes (since it's not uncommon to switch between different refresh rates from a single input source, like going from 60 to 24 when a movie playback starts). QMS uses VRR internally:

https://www.hdmi.org/spec21Sub/QuickMediaSwitching

These dropouts have made certain games unplayable (or difficult to play) for years. Like how in some games, opening the menu triggers a 240p->480i switch and caused the image to black out for several seconds on a Framemeister, and even if the OSSC does the switch instantly, the TV resyncing still has a delay without VRR.

[fernan1234]

VRR, however, gaurantees that any refresh rate timing at all between the min and max will work. And it would also support refresh rate changes (as happen during 240p/480i/480p switches, which some games do frequently) without even a blip.

Yes to the first part but no for the latter, unfortunately. Scan rate changes will always cause problems due to HDMI handshakes. The one and only solution for this is a framebuffer before the signal hits the TV (the OSSC Pro will have this as an option, at the cost of some added lag).

[PearlJammzz]

VRR, however, gaurantees that any refresh rate timing at all between the min and max will work. And it would also support refresh rate changes (as happen during 240p/480i/480p switches, which some games do frequently) without even a blip.

Yes to the first part but no for the latter, unfortunately. Scan rate changes will always cause problems due to HDMI handshakes. The one and only solution for this is a framebuffer before the signal hits the TV (the OSSC Pro will have this as an option, at the cost of some added lag).

What about QMS? I thought QMS would resolve these issues. It essentially allows for an instantaneous resync.

A framebuffer option would probably allow for the highest level of compatibility between sets I'd imagine. Only downside is input latency.

[nmalinoski]

What about QMS? I thought QMS would resolve these issues. It essentially allows for an instantaneous resync.

A framebuffer option would probably allow for the highest level of compatibility between sets I'd imagine. Only downside is input latency.

I think QMS has limited applicability. The way I understand it, QMS allows for instantaneous resync when the framerate changes but the frame size doesn't; so, it would help if you were to, for example, with the original OSSC, have both 240p and 480i line-doubling to 480p and you're playing a PS1/N64 game that switches between those two video modes; but, if the resulting frame sizes differ, like if you've got 240p set to line5x@1080p but 480i set to line4x, you're still going to get an HDMI blackout during mode changes.

The only ways around that that I'm aware of are to use either a CRT (honey badger regarding mode changes) or to use a scaler that can do framerate conversion and continually output at a preset resolution and framerate regardless of input.

[fernan1234]

Yep, this is in the first paragraph of the info link posted by Guspaz earlier: "As long as the resolution remains the same and only the frame rate changes, QMS will smoothly switch between frame rates."

So sounds like it's a no go. Otherwise I'd have to see it to believe it.

[PearlJammzz]

What about QMS? I thought QMS would resolve these issues. It essentially allows for an instantaneous resync.

A framebuffer option would probably allow for the highest level of compatibility between sets I'd imagine. Only downside is input latency.

I think QMS has limited applicability. The way I understand it, QMS allows for instantaneous resync when the framerate changes but the frame size doesn't; so, it would help if you were to, for example, with the original OSSC, have both 240p and 480i line-doubling to 480p and you're playing a PS1/N64 game that switches between those two video modes; but, if the resulting frame sizes differ, like if you've got 240p set to line5x@1080p but 480i set to line4x, you're still going to get an HDMI blackout during mode changes.

The only ways around that that I'm aware of are to use either a CRT (honey badger regarding mode changes) or to use a scaler that can do framerate conversion and continually output at a preset resolution and framerate regardless of input.

That would still be fine for 240p and 480i line doubled then. Even if you're limited to keeping the end resolution the same between the modes it'd be a huge win if it could do it seamlessly with QMS. I believe 1440p, if supported on the OSSC Pro, would also be a resolution that 240p/480i could scale to and match up making it an even bigger win on modern 4k TVs where 1440p scaling is typically pretty great.

Anyone able to test that on a 9 or 10 series LG OLED and an OSSC? If you take a Saturn, PS1, or N64 game that switches between 240p/480i does it switch seamlessly if you use 2x mode for both? If it's fast enough already that's a massive win. The TVs in my house, sadly, cutout and it's a drag. Makes a lot of games unplayable.

[Guspaz]

Yeah, the OSSC can scale all of them (240p, 480i, and 480p) to 960p. There's not a huge quality difference for 5x over 4x, so I don't really see the problem with just setting everything to scale to 960p.

Of course, the OSSC can't do VRR so that's a moot point, but if it did, there needn't be any resolution changes.

[orange808]

VRR isn't a panacea. Persistence blur looks bad and many people find it annoying. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and whatnot.

[Kez]

There is still some difference in line counts between 240p and 480i. As the OSSC is simply multiplying up the input lines, I still don't think QMS would work with straight up line multiplication.

[orange808]

The small difference between 240p and 480i (half a scanline?) should work to our advantage. It might be technically possible to handle that small difference with only a partial frame buffer--and output a seamless signal.

Although, the OSSC Pro would have to be the device doing it. No OEM video processing vendor or display manufacturer is ever going to implement a limited use case partial frame buffered "seamless" transition option for "close enough" video game frame size signals.

[Ed Oscuro]

I find the mouse pointer on the LG OLEDs brilliant, myself. It's very responsive and quick to use for changing settings, especially when the menus are fairly well designed. Beats mushy rubber keys for me.

[Guspaz]

The mouse cursor is fine when you want to use it. It's annoying when you don't want to use it and it's popping up on the screen all the time whenever the remote moves slightly.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ah, that is true. I'm not much of a TV watcher, but I figure most people are going to be using mainly to change the volume when they're not using the cursor. I'm not really sure there is a good fix for this, as I could leave the remote on a table for changing volume, and definitely do want the cursor to pop up when I pick it up in most cases. Delaying the cursor seems like it would make the other menus less accessible.