Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

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kitty666cats
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Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

Anyone ever owned one of these models before? I won a VP-8 on eBay which just arrived in the mail today, and funnily enough both the seller and I failed to realize it was a VP-8 (it was being listed as a VP-6). Anyone have any prior experience with these? Interested in toying around with it and attempting to force 240p progressive at all times for PS1 and Saturn w/out any 480i switching... and feeding it into the OSSC if said experiment does end up working. As an added bonus, it seems like a fun little processor to pair with my Laserdisc player and plethora of other toys kickin' around! I got it for cheap, so I'm not expecting anything amazing, but perhaps some fun / helpful applications!
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by fernan1234 »

I've actually been looking for something that can convert analogue to digital, including SD TV/480i, without scaling, but from an RGB source rather than YPbPr. Got excited when I looked into this KD-VP8, but it actually only takes component/YPbPr, like the Retrotink2X in passthrough mode (and sadly the SCART2X is locked in line doubled mode, can't just pass 480i RGB for some reason).
Still, it does sound like you can do a bunch of cool things with this. I'm curious about the quality of the de-interlacing it can do on the component output, though ironically it would be more useful on the digital output.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

fernan1234 wrote:I've actually been looking for something that can convert analogue to digital, including SD TV/480i, without scaling, but from an RGB source rather than YPbPr. Got excited when I looked into this KD-VP8, but it actually only takes component/YPbPr, like the Retrotink2X in passthrough mode (and sadly the SCART2X is locked in line doubled mode, can't just pass 480i RGB for some reason).
Still, it does sound like you can do a bunch of cool things with this. I'm curious about the quality of the de-interlacing it can do on the component output, though ironically it would be more useful on the digital output.
My plan for this is using the YPbPr out with my Linuxbot3000 YPbPr to RGBHV (can also be set to RGBS out via an internal jumper)! I'll definitely be testing it out on the OSSC, but also on my JVC TM-H150CG 15kHz RGB monitor with one of the cards Linuxbot ALSO makes for said displays. It's nice having the option to do 15kHz RGBHV on those monitors, just for the heck of it! His YPbPR to RGBHV also handles higher resolutions, anywhere up to 1080i. Lots of experiments to be done!

HD Retrovision has some old spreadsheets where they listed that these Key Digital units DO pass 240p, but have some off-looking colors and some scrolling issues, or something like that. I forget, you can find the details if you search the Key Digital units as well as "240p" in the same query. But it couldn't hurt to test on some different displays, and combined with different devices! Just gotta make sure I get a proper PSU... it's a 5V 5.0A 5-pin DIN(not mini, regular DIN) supply, I've found some PSUs online that are CLOSE but not the same... we'll see what I can get goin' with the one I've ordered / some other ones in case the one I have coming doesn't cut it :)

EDIT: Also, I'm not certain, they don't advertise it, but perchance maybe these Key Digitals will accept RGsB? I'll try some stuff out when I get a proper PSU! :)
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by fernan1234 »

kitty666cats wrote:EDIT: Also, I'm not certain, they don't advertise it, but perchance maybe these Key Digitals will accept RGsB? I'll try some stuff out when I get a proper PSU!
If you test this out please be sure to update here. If RGsB works that'd really make me want to look for one of these.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

fernan1234 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:EDIT: Also, I'm not certain, they don't advertise it, but perchance maybe these Key Digitals will accept RGsB? I'll try some stuff out when I get a proper PSU!
If you test this out please be sure to update here. If RGsB works that'd really make me want to look for one of these.
Once I get a PSU that works (hopefully the one I have coming in the mail will do the trick) this will be one of the first things I test :)
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by orange808 »

kitty666cats wrote:
HD Retrovision has some old spreadsheets where they listed that these Key Digital units DO pass 240p
Those spreadsheets are not a particularly good resource. They say the DVDO iScan HD+ handles 240p properly, but it does not. It flunks the drop shadow test.

I'd avoid that particular resource entirely. Fudoh's website is a much better guide and his site explains machines with accuracy.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by Fudoh »

They say the DVDO iScan HD+ handles 240p properly, but it does not. It flunks the drop shadow test.
it does? The SiI503 and 504 should do this correctly. There a are a few flaws from which you can tell that they don't perform raw doubling, but try some kind of deinterlacing, but it's so basic, that the drop shadow test should indeed be fine (and actually is iirc).
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by orange808 »

Fudoh wrote:
They say the DVDO iScan HD+ handles 240p properly, but it does not. It flunks the drop shadow test.
it does? The SiI503 and 504 should do this correctly. There a are a few flaws from which you can tell that they don't perform raw doubling, but try some kind of deinterlacing, but it's so basic, that the drop shadow test should indeed be fine (and actually is iirc).
I can hook it up again and look. I think: it was when you toggle the drop shadow into alternating lines and move the "shadow" spot that it breaks. I also recall seeing combing when the flashing shadow moved.??

I realize this may be a bit extreme, but I see this in binary/polar terms. Either it works correctly all the time or it doesn't. Partial support isn't good enough.

For instance, I say the Calibre Reon doesn't support 240p, because I see combing artifacts on the Green Hill Zone scrolling. For most test patterns (including the flickering shadow), that one also works.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

orange808 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
HD Retrovision has some old spreadsheets where they listed that these Key Digital units DO pass 240p
Those spreadsheets are not a particularly good resource.
Yeah, I wasn't intending to put a lot of stock in those sheets, heh. They are super old and doubtfully tested on LOTS of different displays, or paired with other potentially helpful devices
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

fernan1234 wrote:Retrotink2X in passthrough mode (and sadly the SCART2X is locked in line doubled mode, can't just pass 480i RGB for some reason).
Has anyone figured out a workaround for that, yet? Seems like quite the odd choice, to me O_o;

I suppose it's (SCART 2X) a great unit for the plug-n-play market who don't wanna think about all the OSSC features they'd potentially have to fiddle with, AND especially a great unit for people with later model Sony HDCRTs (or what-have-you). But, at the SCART2X price point, I'd probably just drop the small bit extra for an OSSC (already own one, just being hypothetical).

Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with):

Image

I know, apples and oranges... this does completely different resolutions, has a menu and HDMI passthrough etc... I ASSUME the SCART 2X blows it away, but I hear some people say these cheap ones are actually pretty damn good if you're not the type to take shit like milliseconds of lag seriously ( it's not like we're all Super Smash Melee veterans, I mostly play tactical RPGs :P )
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by fernan1234 »

kitty666cats wrote:I suppose it's (SCART 2X) a great unit for the plug-n-play market who don't wanna think about all the OSSC features they'd potentially have to fiddle with, AND especially a great unit for people with later model Sony HDCRTs (or what-have-you). But, at the SCART2X price point, I'd probably just drop the small bit extra for an OSSC (already own one, just being hypothetical).

Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with):
Honestly I only want to check out the SCART2X to see what it can do for 3D graphics with its smoothing filter on my display. Apparently a lot of people like it. It's also nice that it doesn't require all the fiddling of the OSSC.

And I'd bet it's noticeably better than those cheap adapters, though those may have the sole advantage of not dropping sync during scan rate changes.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by RGB0b »

kitty666cats wrote:Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with)
Yes. That thing is terrible: https://youtu.be/ZUrqWN4AcJc
kitty666cats wrote:I hear some people say these cheap ones are actually pretty damn good if you're not the type to take shit like milliseconds of lag seriously ( it's not like we're all Super Smash Melee veterans, I mostly play tactical RPGs :P )
It's not "shit like milliseconds of lag", it's variable over three frames.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

retrorgb wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with)
Yes. That thing is terrible: https://youtu.be/ZUrqWN4AcJc
kitty666cats wrote:I hear some people say these cheap ones are actually pretty damn good if you're not the type to take shit like milliseconds of lag seriously ( it's not like we're all Super Smash Melee veterans, I mostly play tactical RPGs :P )
It's not "shit like milliseconds of lag", it's variable over three frames.
Come to think of it, I remember reading the thing the old black HD box is only remotely good for is video capture, I forget if I read that on your site or Fudoh's site :o

My brother got one of the black boxes years ago, I've been meaning to borrow it from him sometime to witness the jank in person, haha! Maybe I'll throw a Portta HDMI to VGA in the mix at one point for kicks and see if it's even moar of a turd on VGA CRTS xD
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

Finally got a PSU comin' for this thing, as well as a remote (which I didn't even know the thing had, heh). Fernan, I will look into the stink-on-green probably, like, immediately when it arrives :)
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by craiglearmont »

Hello there,

I was doing some research online, and I am trying to find firmware for a DVDO Edge. I have two of them, and one of them is working, but the other one isn't. I think I screwed up the firmware on one of them.

I saw that user Fudoh seems to be the expert on this, so I wanted to connect here.

Please let me know if you can help. I don't have the Firmware Updater App for Mac OS anymore, and I'm not sure if you can still use it with newer operating systems.

Thanks very much!

Craig Learmont
Calgary, Alberta
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kitty666cats
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

Can't help you with that, but if anyone else here has a KD-VP6 or KD-VP8, I've been talking to Key Digital and I'm gonna try to get them to dig up the last firmware for me. I will post it here if they find it!

BTW, they told me that the units do not take sync on green. I haven't tried for myself, but I think I'll take their word for it :P
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by orange808 »

craiglearmont wrote:Hello there,

I was doing some research online, and I am trying to find firmware for a DVDO Edge. I have two of them, and one of them is working, but the other one isn't. I think I screwed up the firmware on one of them.

I saw that user Fudoh seems to be the expert on this, so I wanted to connect here.

Please let me know if you can help. I don't have the Firmware Updater App for Mac OS anymore, and I'm not sure if you can still use it with newer operating systems.

Thanks very much!

Craig Learmont
Calgary, Alberta
AFAIK, the Edge/Duo update process was "drag and drop". The device should identify as a drive and automatically handle .apt firmware files that are pushed from the PC OS to the iScan.

There's a thread somewhere on here with firmwares. Search should locate it.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

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retrorgb wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with)
Yes. That thing is terrible: https://youtu.be/ZUrqWN4AcJc
kitty666cats wrote:I hear some people say these cheap ones are actually pretty damn good if you're not the type to take shit like milliseconds of lag seriously ( it's not like we're all Super Smash Melee veterans, I mostly play tactical RPGs :P )
It's not "shit like milliseconds of lag", it's variable over three frames.
Nice video. I knew these were shit and I try to steer people away from them, but confirmation is nice.
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:Is the SCART2X at least WAYYYY better than these $25 suckers (which are so cheap that I almost wanna buy one someday just to toy around with)
Yes. That thing is terrible: https://youtu.be/ZUrqWN4AcJc
kitty666cats wrote:I hear some people say these cheap ones are actually pretty damn good if you're not the type to take shit like milliseconds of lag seriously ( it's not like we're all Super Smash Melee veterans, I mostly play tactical RPGs :P )
It's not "shit like milliseconds of lag", it's variable over three frames.
Nice video. I knew these were shit and I try to steer people away from them, but confirmation is nice.
Those cheapo ones aren't bad for video capture/streaming (if you use two displays and don't use your video capture as your only screen), if you're on a budget. I've seen some for $25... BUT, I'd definitely steer anyone intending to use it on their main display away & say save up for an alternate solution
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

kitty666cats wrote:Those cheapo ones aren't bad for video capture/streaming (if you use two displays and don't use your video capture as your only screen), if you're on a budget. I've seen some for $25... BUT, I'd definitely steer anyone intending to use it on their main display away & say save up for an alternate solution
It's all on another couple sites where the userbase is less HARDCOAR than the farm. Usually the topic goes something like "Need help hooking up x input to newer tv that doesn't have it" or "help, old shit looks way worse on my fancy new tv than I remember when I last hooked it up to my crt".

In the last thread I remember the first recommendation was one of those shit boxes. They ended up buying one even cheaper than the one linked (likely the cheapest they could find) despite good advice (ossc, retrotink). Can't save 'em all. :lol:
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Re: Key Digital KD-VP6 / KD-VP8

Post by kitty666cats »

e-mail response from Key Digital:

"HI Mike,



As you mentioned it is a legacy item and as such support is limited.



I searched our archived files, however a firmware update is not present.

There has not been an update for the unit since it was released."

So, no dice on this one. This thing has been pretty fruitless for me with my VCR, it has a 'force 480i into 480p' mode on the component out, but the problem is I'm running it into a YPbPr to RGBHV transcoder before hitting my 34" presentation monitor. No success when I do that! The thing is clearly moreso designed for EDTVs, I guess monitors are perhaps slightly too off-spec for the units. Kinda a shame, but I have this other CV/YC decoder that I can run into my modded GBS8200 for much better results. It's especially neat because the other decoder I have 'breaks' 240p, but (haven't tried it yet) I'd imagine I could scale shit back to 240p with the GBS!

Fun experimenting, but nothing special here. Major props to the creators of the Koryuu, def gotta try that one :)
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