Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

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Swevicus
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Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

Hey, guys.

I've been doing a LOT of joystick tests lately, pitting the Sanwa JLF, Seimitsu LS-32 and Seimitsu LS-56 against each other in a wide array of various retrogame genres (arcade, platformer, fighter, beat-em-up, shmup, etc.) and I have to be honest: the JLF is pretty damn good for these older types of games (Atari 2600, Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Amiga, etc.) - I think I'm starting to favour it a little bit over the Seimitsu LS-32 (its short neck compared to every other Japanese joystick out there is a bit annoying, to be honest, although I do prefer its stiffer spring compared to the JLF). The LS-56 was quickly disqualified for its extreme sensitivity and lack of available spare parts. If anyone would like to see the results, then I'll gladly (try to) find them.

S.
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FRO
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by FRO »

I've been thinking about doing something like this to do a pad-hack for Genesis games. I have a couple Genesis arcade sticks from that time, but after getting used to a Sanwa stick the last couple months, I'm a little spoiled now. Would be great for playing Genesis shooters, of which there are many.
Swevicus
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

Here you go, if you want to padhack a 3-button controller (the 6-button controller uses a microcontroller, making it a completely different kettle of fish): http://slagcoin.com/joystick/pcb_diagra ... agram1.jpg
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scrilla4rella
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by scrilla4rella »

I've also been using a JLF for a lot of retro stuff. The MiSTer FPGA is a game-changer for me as it allows me to easily pair my HORI REAL ARCADE Pro 3 PREMIUM VLX and jump from arcade games such as Donkey Kong to Neo Geo to Sega CD to PC Engine to MSX, for example. Obviously, shooters and belt scrollers work well with it but I still feel weird playing console platformers on a stick.

I think the arcade stick has definitely improved my game on some of the more intense PCEngine shooters. I'm in the process of experimenting with some mods such as an octogate. After getting used to how the different restrictor gate changes things I'm planning to try a stiffer spring and latter an oversized actuator, but I want to take it slow so I have a good idea on how each part changes it up.

Good times.
Swevicus
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

Where did the idea that the JLF sucked for shmups come from? It works fine from my experience (at least for games of this type and this era).
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clippa
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by clippa »

Is it not a bit loose with a big throw and engage distance? More suited for fighting games?
I remember buying a second hand arcade stick that had one in and replacing it pretty quickly. I think I still have it in the cupboard.
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monouchi
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by monouchi »

Its more a personal preference, Ive tested all sticks I could find out there and in the end stuck with the Seimitsu LS-60. Short throw.soft spring and soft switch.
The JLF is ok though but not my cup of tea for shmups.
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Marc
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Marc »

clippa wrote:Is it not a bit loose with a big throw and engage distance? More suited for fighting games?
I remember buying a second hand arcade stick that had one in and replacing it pretty quickly. I think I still have it in the cupboard.
I think these are fitted in the Capcom Home Arcade, and I'd definitely agree. Lovely for Darkstalkers and SF, not so much so for 1944 and Giga Wing.
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Triple Lei
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Triple Lei »

Swevicus wrote:Hey, guys.

I've been doing a LOT of joystick tests lately, pitting the Sanwa JLF, Seimitsu LS-32 and Seimitsu LS-56 against each other in a wide array of various retrogame genres (arcade, platformer, fighter, beat-em-up, shmup, etc.) and I have to be honest: the JLF is pretty damn good for these older types of games (Atari 2600, Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Amiga, etc.) - I think I'm starting to favour it a little bit over the Seimitsu LS-32 (its short neck compared to every other Japanese joystick out there is a bit annoying, to be honest, although I do prefer its stiffer spring compared to the JLF). The LS-56 was quickly disqualified for its extreme sensitivity and lack of available spare parts. If anyone would like to see the results, then I'll gladly (try to) find them.

S.
Hmm, you might be mounting your Seimitsu LS-32 at the wrong height. Some sticks require an "S plate" to get the lever closer to the panel. My beloved Sanwa JLW needs this too.

As far as Sanwa JLF for retro... how far are back are we going? :D For Pac-Man (and maybe all 4-way games) I needed to replace the shaft with a short shaft, replace the actuator with an oversized JLF actuator, and replace the spring with a heavier 2 lb. spring. Simply rotating the gate to 4-way mode wasn't enough for me.

I'm in the "Sanwa for fighters and Seimitsu for shmups" camp myself. Although I'm currently modding my Dreamcast arcade stick, and the DC is known for both fighters and shmups, so I think I'll just leave the stick stock... :?
Loom1es
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Loom1es »

scrilla4rella wrote:I've also been using a JLF for a lot of retro stuff. The MiSTer FPGA is a game-changer for me as it allows me to easily pair my HORI REAL ARCADE Pro 3 PREMIUM VLX and jump from arcade games such as Donkey Kong to Neo Geo to Sega CD to PC Engine to MSX, for example. Obviously, shooters and belt scrollers work well with it but I still feel weird playing console platformers on a stick.

I think the arcade stick has definitely improved my game on some of the more intense PCEngine shooters. I'm in the process of experimenting with some mods such as an octogate. After getting used to how the different restrictor gate changes things I'm planning to try a stiffer spring and latter an oversized actuator, but I want to take it slow so I have a good idea on how each part changes it up.

Good times.
I have recently changed my stock JLF with an oversize actuator and an octo gate, I initially used a new 4lb spring but never got on with it, a 2lb spring I found better. I use the stick for platformers, shooters and fighters. For me it's a good compromise as rarely does one size fit all.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Shelcoof »

Put in a Kowal actuator and you ready for shmups

The Hayabusa with Panasonic switches and Kowal Actuator feels super nice
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scrilla4rella
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by scrilla4rella »

clippa wrote:Is it not a bit loose with a big throw and engage distance? More suited for fighting games?
I remember buying a second hand arcade stick that had one in and replacing it pretty quickly. I think I still have it in the cupboard.
I agree but it's something I've gotten used to (it only took me 3 years).

I found a square gate with a JLF helps with quick straight up and down movements that helps out a lot with verts. These types of movements are crucial for games like Psyvariar. I switched over to an octogate and while hooking around bullets was a little easier I'd often fuck up and die when trying the quickly-lunge straight-up-or-down move.

I am looking forward to experimenting with stronger springs and an oversized actuator. I rememebr some forum member saying previously that these mods made the JLF feel like a LS-32.

I wish it was easier to mount a LS-32 to a Blast City panel...
Swevicus
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

The S-plate for the LS-32 is smegging me off (the nuts and bolts I have aren't deep enough to secure it in place, so I have no choice but to use the standard flat plate, which is flat as flat can be - completely flush with the case of my stick).
Ryoandr
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Ryoandr »

Having played quite a lot with both JLF and LS32, both are great choices.
JLF is the all arounder, and easy to maintain. Overall more forgiving.
LS32 requires more accuracy from the player, which in return can help your execution. However microswitches for old LS32 are no longer made, and I have yet to test newer ones.
Taiyaki
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Taiyaki »

Sanwa JLF has too large a throw to be effective in 2D fighters imo, but this can be remedied with an actuator, which makes the stick so much better. I also like the LS40 because it's the stick that was found in Neogeo cabs if I'm not mistaken.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Shelcoof »

Ryoandr wrote:Having played quite a lot with both JLF and LS32, both are great choices.
JLF is the all arounder, and easy to maintain. Overall more forgiving.
LS32 requires more accuracy from the player, which in return can help your execution. However microswitches for old LS32 are no longer made, and I have yet to test newer ones.
The omron switches for the new LS-32 make it feel more sloppy like JLF lever

However the old Hayabusa with Panasonic switched modded with the Kowal actuator makes the Hayabusa lever feel like a tighter LS-32 or a looser LS-40
Swevicus
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

The new (2017) model of the LS-32 feels like a JLF - sloppy and soft? That's bull, man! I actually like the stiffer spring and added resistance in the classic design.
Swevicus
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

Triple Lei wrote:
Swevicus wrote:Hey, guys.

I've been doing a LOT of joystick tests lately, pitting the Sanwa JLF, Seimitsu LS-32 and Seimitsu LS-56 against each other in a wide array of various retrogame genres (arcade, platformer, fighter, beat-em-up, shmup, etc.) and I have to be honest: the JLF is pretty damn good for these older types of games (Atari 2600, Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Amiga, etc.) - I think I'm starting to favour it a little bit over the Seimitsu LS-32 (its short neck compared to every other Japanese joystick out there is a bit annoying, to be honest, although I do prefer its stiffer spring compared to the JLF). The LS-56 was quickly disqualified for its extreme sensitivity and lack of available spare parts. If anyone would like to see the results, then I'll gladly (try to) find them.

S.
Hmm, you might be mounting your Seimitsu LS-32 at the wrong height. Some sticks require an "S plate" to get the lever closer to the panel. My beloved Sanwa JLW needs this too.

As far as Sanwa JLF for retro... how far are back are we going? :D For Pac-Man (and maybe all 4-way games) I needed to replace the shaft with a short shaft, replace the actuator with an oversized JLF actuator, and replace the spring with a heavier 2 lb. spring. Simply rotating the gate to 4-way mode wasn't enough for me.

I'm in the "Sanwa for fighters and Seimitsu for shmups" camp myself. Although I'm currently modding my Dreamcast arcade stick, and the DC is known for both fighters and shmups, so I think I'll just leave the stick stock... :?
How far back are we going? Atari 2600, C64, Amiga, maybe Sega Master System days. :)
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it290
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by it290 »

I gotta say, I laughed at this topic. I'm a Seimitsu user myself, but 'extremely high quality Japanese arcade stick better for Amiga games than every garbage Amiga joystick with plastic actuators and membrane switches' makes for kind of a funny headline, you have to admit.
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Swevicus »

Well, if you were lucky enough to own a Competition Pro or Zipstik back in the day (or an elusive twin-button stick, which provided 2 separate logical buttons), then you were spared. :)
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it290
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by it290 »

Those things didn't really exist over here in the US, or at least were supremely uncommon. The best option I ever found for my C64 (prior to the realization that I could hook a Genesis pad up to it) was the Slik Stik, which played decently even though it used leaf switches. Unfortunately these things would break after a month or so of regular use.
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by BrianC »

Competition Pro did come out in the US, though I'm not sure how rare they are. Definitely my go to for 2600 joysticks, even over the Slik Stik. Stick on the Slik Stik isn't bad, but the button is cheaply made and can be unresponsive at times.
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emphatic
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by emphatic »

On topic: Some retro games really suffer when you have to easy actuation/short throw. Like Ninja-Kid II for example, I remember trying to play it with LS-32 and it was very hard not to trigger the weapon change (lever UP) by mistake when the action got too frantic. Never tried playing it with a stock JLF though.

Off topic: I have the actuator/spring modded JLFs in all my panels now, the JLF feels more "expensive" to me than Seimitsu sticks. The latter has an annoying "wiggle room" within the dead zone. No Japanese brand lever is unplayable for modern games though, playing on a stick you don't like will sharpen your concentration IMHO.
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Triple Lei
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Triple Lei »

On topic: I've really come to like the Otto v2 mods for Sanwa JLF and Hori Hayabusa (links: Focus Attack, Arcade Shock). You have that nice rubber grommet feel used in Korean sticks, but you still have a gate that you can ride so you can hit diagonals with ease. When used with a JLF, you can (unofficially at least) swap in a JLF gate set in 4-way mode for more accurate-feeling Pac-Man, as those old Midway cabs used sticks with rubber grommets too. Three different-sized actuators included means you shouldn't ever complain about large throw again; I like the middle size, but the largest also works well. And if you've ever bought a recent Hori RAP and immediately tossed the Hayabusa lever for something else, that lever is certainly now good for something. It's honestly become my go-to stick for both shmups and fighters!

Off topic: The USB controller test in Windows showed me that none of the 4-way solutions I've come across have truly blocked off diagonals. You might have to go out of your way to activate both switches to hit the diagonal, and the diagonal will only be active for like a frame or two in normal play, but it's possible.
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Harpuia
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Re: Sanwa JLF surprisingly good for retro games

Post by Harpuia »

I bought a short shaft for my JLF (which seems rather hard to find, I honestly think I might've grabbed the last one off Focusattack), and combined with the Kowal actuator I've gotta admit, it feels pretty damn sweet for shmups. I had a 2lb spring in mine, but I found it to be a bit much with the short shaft and swapped the stock back in. I'm not sure if I like it more than my LS-56, but it's pretty close.
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