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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:56 pm 


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JNX may be a great, honest, knowledgeable guy, but if he couldnt keep up with the demand he should have made DIY kits and detailed installation instructions available a long time ago. He could have pumped out a LOT more that way while still doing custom builds as he would like. Probably could have made more money on the project as well. There is a demand in the market for this and Marmotta's kit will satisfy it.

It may sound cold, but if JNX hasnt patented his designs or anything like that, its perfectly legal for someone else to do something similar and sell it. But I wouldnt say Marmotta is stealing JNX's design from what Ive seen. So far it looks like he has designed his own boards, graphics, and the case appears to be something standard available for puchase already. I'm pumped up and all for it.

Like I said, if JNX is serious about having a better product, let him put his own DIY kit and may the best kit win.


Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:17 pm 


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live by the COTS, die by the COTS


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:54 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
It may sound cold, but if JNX hasnt patented his designs or anything like that, its perfectly legal for someone else to do something similar and sell it.


I don't feel strongly either way about this type of product, though the casing is generic and not exclusive in this circumstance. Expecting someone to patent something to protect themselves is unreasonable in this amateur/hobbyist sphere. It costs thousands of dollars to get a patent properly established. You can spend a lot of money just to get to a point where your patent's rejected and you either give up or start over, it's insane. And if it comes down to litigation in defending that patent, be prepared to spend even more.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:43 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 837
Josh128 wrote:
JNX may be a great, honest, knowledgeable guy, but if he couldnt keep up with the demand he should have made DIY kits and detailed installation instructions available a long time ago. He could have pumped out a LOT more that way while still doing custom builds as he would like. Probably could have made more money on the project as well. There is a demand in the market for this and Marmotta's kit will satisfy it.

It may sound cold, but if JNX hasnt patented his designs or anything like that, its perfectly legal for someone else to do something similar and sell it. But I wouldnt say Marmotta is stealing JNX's design from what Ive seen. So far it looks like he has designed his own boards, graphics, and the case appears to be something standard available for puchase already. I'm pumped up and all for it.

Like I said, if JNX is serious about having a better product, let him put his own DIY kit and may the best kit win.

I doubt he'd have done that. I've never seen him do a DIY before.

There are literally dozens of other enclosures that could have worked for this kit. JNX never even hid the fact that these enclosures were readily available as he shared this info before. If people couldn't afford to have him make one he'd probably have helped them out on the forums by giving them directions on how to do it themselves, he's just that kind of guy. Call it naive, but he probably didn't expect some unscrupulous person would actually take his idea and repackage it for a profit.

The other obvious problem with Marmotta using the same enclosure is that when these end up on the second hand market a lot of people will assume they're a variant of JNX's CMVS (perhaps older unpolished models). It will damage his brand, and he will likely also get requests for repairs for it eventhough it's not his product. I've never seen him turn down repair offers before but he's on social media already stating he won't be repairing any of these.

I'm surprised more in the community here aren't indignant about this. Normally we stand by our fellow members when this kind of thing happens to them.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:41 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
I doubt he'd have done that. I've never seen him do a DIY before.


Well, thats his choice. He doesnt own the rights to anything Neo Geo-- why should he be able to corner the market on MVS console conversions? If he had enough to supply demand, Marmott would probably have never even started his own project.

Taiyaki wrote:
The other obvious problem with Marmotta using the same enclosure is that when these end up on the second hand market a lot of people will assume they're a variant of JNX's CMVS (perhaps older unpolished models). It will damage his brand, and he will likely also get requests for repairs for it eventhough it's not his product. I've never seen him turn down repair offers before but he's on social media already stating he won't be repairing any of these.

I'm surprised more in the community here aren't indignant about this. Normally we stand by our fellow members when this kind of thing happens to them.


Really? Up until this thread I'd never even heard of a JNX CMVS. If you dont search for "JNX CMVS" specifically, it wont even come up in the first 2 pages of results. Marmott's kit looks distinctly different than what is shown on JNX's site also-- I dont see how anyone ignorant enough to be able to obtain one of these units completed and actually not know where it came from to somehow find this guy JNX and think its one of his and then proceed ask him to fix it. Thats quite a ridiculous stretch IMO.


Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:52 pm 


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Bratwurst wrote:
Josh128 wrote:
It may sound cold, but if JNX hasnt patented his designs or anything like that, its perfectly legal for someone else to do something similar and sell it.


I don't feel strongly either way about this type of product, though the casing is generic and not exclusive in this circumstance. Expecting someone to patent something to protect themselves is unreasonable in this amateur/hobbyist sphere. It costs thousands of dollars to get a patent properly established. You can spend a lot of money just to get to a point where your patent's rejected and you either give up or start over, it's insane. And if it comes down to litigation in defending that patent, be prepared to spend even more.



I agree. But thats why patent/copyright law exists. As I said before, I can see why JNX would be upset, Im sure he put a lot of research and work into his CMVS, but when you try and corner the market on something like this and dont come close to meeting demand, its bound to happen. Fudoh himself said that he had been trying for over a year to get one-- thats unacceptable. Apparently you can put one of these together for under $175 USD when the AES is going for $1000+. JNX messed up by not making a DIY kit like this and now theres an alternative. Instead of trying to stop or slander this guy and doing nothing else, he should put out his own kit if it is superior and he wants to remain the go-to guru for this type of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:44 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Josh128 wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
I doubt he'd have done that. I've never seen him do a DIY before.


Well, thats his choice. He doesnt own the rights to anything Neo Geo-- why should he be able to corner the market on MVS console conversions? If he had enough to supply demand, Marmott would probably have never even started his own project.


How is requesting that people not steal his designs be cornering the market? You don't accidentally stumble upon this encasing and figure the exact spot to make the slot hole and where to fit all the wires. Marmott could have picked any number of encasings to do this kit from (he might even stumble upon something better), instead he took JNX's labour from years of assembling CMVS systems into his own, that just isn't done in friendly communities normally. There are other people on ebay who assemble their own CVMS and sell them at a high profit and none of them had picked that same enclosure until now.

Josh128 wrote:
Really? Up until this thread I'd never even heard of a JNX CMVS. If you dont search for "JNX CMVS" specifically, it wont even come up in the first 2 pages of results. Marmott's kit looks distinctly different than what is shown on JNX's site also-- I dont see how anyone ignorant enough to be able to obtain one of these units completed and actually not know where it came from to somehow find this guy JNX and think its one of his and then proceed ask him to fix it. Thats quite a ridiculous stretch IMO.

Can't blame others for you not being up to date with the CMVS market. The JNX model is pretty much the most in demand over the last couple of years. Whenever people resell theirs on ebay they go for ridiculous prices. It doesn't look that distinctively diffent as JNX had also done some red ones like that. If you do a search on Google for JNX and MVS specifically you get over 60000 results...

That being said I agree it's his fault that he can't keep up with demand, and there is definitely an opening for others to sell quality cmvs, but one would hope that they would have the decency of going at it their own way, and not just doing a knock off of someone else's.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:14 pm 


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I said if you dont search for "JNX CMVS" specifically. If you leave out "JNX" and just search for CMVS or MVS + Neo Geo you dont get anything to do with JNX. How could anyone buy a unit built with Marmots kit and mistake it for someone they have never heard of? If you dont know "JNX" its very unlikely you will find his site on the web.

Also, using a commercially available off the the shelf box is fine. Its anyones prerogative to do it. Its just a box. Does it borrow strongly from the JNX design? Sure- but its not the same. It has differences, plus its a DIY kit unlike what JNX is doing. I dont think using the same COTS plastic box is such a big deal. What do you want the OP to do, admit that he got the idea for the box/housing from the JNX design? Im sure he did. Then what? Dont provide the kit because of it?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:44 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
I said if you dont search for "JNX CMVS" specifically. If you leave out "JNX" and just search for CMVS or MVS + Neo Geo you dont get anything to do with JNX. How could anyone buy a unit built with Marmots kit and mistake it for someone they have never heard of? If you dont know "JNX" its very unlikely you will find his site on the web.

Also, using a commercially available off the the shelf box is fine. Its anyones prerogative to do it. Its just a box. Does it borrow strongly from the JNX design? Sure- but its not the same. It has differences, plus its a DIY kit unlike what JNX is doing. I dont think using the same COTS plastic box is such a big deal. What do you want the OP to do, admit that he got the idea for the box/housing from the JNX design? Im sure he did. Then what? Dont provide the kit because of it?

A quick search on google for CMVS alone reveals a full page of results all of which have nothing to do with the Neo Geo at all. So that's not a search term that would yield results for any cmvs related inquiries.

People buying it here will know, but if someone sells it on the second hand market unless they specify otherwise, some people are bound to not know the difference. What you don't realize is how popular the JNX is. many buyers waited in line for over half a year to get one, and many others have flocked to the second hand market and will pay far more than the original price for a used one. This isn't because of the design of the unit, but because of how renowned his workmanship is. So if potential buyers haven't read the news about these on JNX's social media then yes, it's very possible that some buyers will mistaken it for a JNX model based on appearances. Especially as JNX has done other colors for the plates as well.

The shelf box case enclosure looks like this, and requires some cuts and preparation to be ready for use on a cmvs:

Image

Compare the final result of a JNX to the Marmotta design:

Image

Image

Image

Marmotta cut out the cart slot hole exactly as per dimensions provided by JNX (although you will notice the cut he employed is messy as heck (pics courtesy of JNX's facebook post). Marmotta takes the same front plate layout with the controller port connectors and text in the same spot too. Besides the power button being moved to the back (apparently a cost saving technique) every aspect is taken straight from JNX's design. It's not a stretch to say he just took his work and applied it to his own. Can he do this? Yes. Is it ethical behavior? No.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm 


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My TimeHarvest NeoGeo machine has component output to feed an American television directly and stereo audio.

Of course, the price of those TimeHarvest machines has really gone up, but those are features US buyers want. RGB SCART wasn't a thing in America and it never will be.

That's my suggestion.
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:21 pm 


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But SCART to YUV converters are cheap and readily available now and work great. Its what most serious retrogaming folks in the US use now anyways. RCA jacks will take up a lot more space than the mini-din he currently shows does and will surely add to the cost, along with the conversion circuitry.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think an RGB output is fine if a standard SCART cable can be purchased with or for it. I'm all for this thing hitting the market ASAP and as cost-effective as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:25 pm 



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Taiyaki wrote:
Josh128 wrote:
JNX may be a great, honest, knowledgeable guy, but if he couldnt keep up with the demand he should have made DIY kits and detailed installation instructions available a long time ago. He could have pumped out a LOT more that way while still doing custom builds as he would like. Probably could have made more money on the project as well. There is a demand in the market for this and Marmotta's kit will satisfy it.

It may sound cold, but if JNX hasnt patented his designs or anything like that, its perfectly legal for someone else to do something similar and sell it. But I wouldnt say Marmotta is stealing JNX's design from what Ive seen. So far it looks like he has designed his own boards, graphics, and the case appears to be something standard available for puchase already. I'm pumped up and all for it.

Like I said, if JNX is serious about having a better product, let him put his own DIY kit and may the best kit win.

I doubt he'd have done that. I've never seen him do a DIY before.

There are literally dozens of other enclosures that could have worked for this kit. JNX never even hid the fact that these enclosures were readily available as he shared this info before. If people couldn't afford to have him make one he'd probably have helped them out on the forums by giving them directions on how to do it themselves, he's just that kind of guy. Call it naive, but he probably didn't expect some unscrupulous person would actually take his idea and repackage it for a profit.

The other obvious problem with Marmotta using the same enclosure is that when these end up on the second hand market a lot of people will assume they're a variant of JNX's CMVS (perhaps older unpolished models). It will damage his brand, and he will likely also get requests for repairs for it eventhough it's not his product. I've never seen him turn down repair offers before but he's on social media already stating he won't be repairing any of these.

I'm surprised more in the community here aren't indignant about this. Normally we stand by our fellow members when this kind of thing happens to them.


JNX is using an off the shelf case, same as Marmotta. Yes, JNX “might” have found the most suitable one, but he sure as shit didn’t design it.

I have no idea why he is twisting his knickers over this, he has even said himself he no longer wants to do CMVS consoles anymore.

This looks a great and straightforward solution for those that don’t want to jump through hoops to get a CMVS.

I’m pretty sure that JNX does not own the rights to CMVS consoles and like they say, no need to reinvent the wheel...

You are essentially suggesting that Marmotta doesn’t use the most suitable, off the shelf parts, just to keep some guy, who no longer makes these, happy!?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:41 pm 



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lunch_box wrote:
You are essentially suggesting that Marmotta doesn’t use the most suitable, off the shelf parts, just to keep some guy, who no longer makes these, happy!?

That's twisting my words. What I'm saying is that when someone else comes up with an idea and you take it and make it your own, that's pretty low. Apparently he never even approached JNX about borrowing his design. You'd think he'd start by thanking him for the idea at the very least.

I acknowledge that there's a huge market for CMVS, no question about it (and yes looks like JNX was tired of making them anyway), what I argue is that the way Marmotta is going about it is not a respectable way.

orange808 wrote:
My TimeHarvest NeoGeo machine has component output to feed an American television directly and stereo audio.

Of course, the price of those TimeHarvest machines has really gone up, but those are features US buyers want. RGB SCART wasn't a thing in America and it never will be.

That's my suggestion.

That's for sure, but using component would bring on higher costs based on his DIY kit idea, but no question that the bulk of Americans would want Component on a crt, or HDMI if using on an lcd. Only the more hardcore enthusiasts use rgb scart.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:59 pm 



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I'm going to address this all now for one last time and try not to mention it again, at best I'll just refer people to this post. I don't have the time to deal with it on top of my day job and trying to produce this and a couple of other projects. If people want to drag it on further, that's fine, but I'm not going to weigh in anymore on this aspect of it.

The seemingly since-deleted Twitter post is pretty bothersome, based entirely on assumptions and simple falsities. That the RGB signals only have caps on them and the boards are corroded are just straight up lies and he has no idea how long I've been modding (whether it be Neo Geo or other consoles) and what sort of customer support people can expect from me. I have a 100% eBay feedback rating based largely on selling modded consoles and infallibly deal with any issues when they do occur. My main reason behind deciding to sell the CMVS as a kit is largely because I know I can properly check over everything before sending it out and can easily send specific replacement parts should there be any issues. Regarding the quality of the parts used, ultimately that will be up to others to decide - what I've pictured is close to a final product, but not entirely. There are still smalls changes I want to make and some testing to be done before I offer it to anyone as a kit. Having said that, there is nothing in the current product that I would not personally be satisfied with using myself, aside from the SCART cable connector plastic housing, which is why I may not include it in the final version or will push people to buy RGC's version instead.

It's been talked over already, but the enclosure is an off-the-shelf part and I have absolutely no qualms using it (here's the link for anyone wishing to use it themselves). I tried a number of different cases, even getting Mouser to adjust their listed dimensions on one that I had my heart set on, after discovering it was a couple of millimetres too small, but ultimately I came to the same conclusion that JNX did, that the PC-11481 the best one for the job. That a couple of people have even suggested there's anything legally dubious about it is simply laughable. Ethically I may admittedly have had some slight concerns, but they were quickly washed away by JNX's petty and vindictive responses to my announcements about the kit. As for other similarities, the controllers ports and cartridge slot locations are where they are by necessity, there's no other way round it; I could have placed the controller ports on the left, but it would just be moving them further away from the pinouts on the MVS JAMMA connector. As for the power and RGB ports, they were placed on the right side, again, because the relevant connections are on that side of the MVS board and also because there are fewer enclosure standoffs on that side to avoid or remove. They weren't in that location in an earlier design of mine from just over a year ago, but the size of the PCB was impractical and having everything on one board was far less flexible a solution.

Image


Lastly JNX seems to have come at this from the angle that I'm looking to usurp him or something. His product is complete MVS consoles that are well-made and notoriously hard to get hold of. I'm not even necessarily targeting the same group; the way I see it there are 3 different groups of MVS buyers, those who want to just hook a Neo Geo console up to their TV and buy a complete product like the JNX CMVS, those that want to save some money and buy a kit like this, and those who take pleasure in doing all the work themselves. If he is so convinced that what I'm offering is an inferior product, then that will become apparent and people will still seek out his work above anyone else's. Alternatively, he could offer his in kit form as well; almost all the parts are from the US, so he could effectively do so for about 20% cheaper if he wished to.

I never even hinted that my CMVS kit was a replacement for the JNX one or necessarily an improvement in any way, but if he wants to start taking little pot-shots at the quality of work, here's a couple of photos of the underside of both finished products.

Image Image


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:08 pm 


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lunch_box wrote:
I have no idea why he is twisting his knickers over this, he has even said himself he no longer wants to do CMVS consoles anymore.


Not only that, they were almost impossible to get to begin with even when he was making them, when he opened pre-orders the last time, I emailed him right on time and never got an answer, neither did Fudoh, I had to buy a used one off ebay for 2-3 times the original price.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:26 pm 


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Man, dont sweat it at all. JNX also has rivets on either side of his controller ports and you dont. Its just like I said earlier, it is definitely not just a copy cat job.

One request though. Mark me down as your first U.S. order and I want one ASAP. I already have a hopefully "COVID-9 free" MV-1C board incoming from China. Please get them out soon!


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:42 pm 



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lunch_box wrote:
When are you hoping to start taking orders? How much will
You sell fully working units for? (If you have any for sale that is)


Travis1979 wrote:
When will these be available for purchase?


I'm aiming to be able to send out kits by the end of March, I'm working on building a website, making some small changes and figuring out exactly what price I can offer it for. As mentioned, I don't really intend to sell complete consoles. I will have a few available for dispatch to the UK only as I have a few MV-1C boards at home, after that I'll be focused on selling kits and developing other products.


Konsolkongen wrote:
OP: Please take a picture of the backside of your RGB board, because some people seem to think that you only run the RGB lines through capacitors even though you say otherwise in your second post. Would be good for you to make this clear to everyone as soon as possible :)

That nut right next to the power switch pins looks dangerously close in your picture. Is there a risk of shorting out? Maybe move or remove it altogether?


I'll post one shortly - only reason I didn't is because this is not necessarily the 100% final product and the AV circuitry in particular is something that I may make adjustments to. The nut next to the power switch only appears that close because of the perspective of the photo, however, I will be at least moving it because the plastic washer overhangs the acrylic board and I don't like the look of it.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:06 pm 



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I give respect to Marmotta for at least addressing the issue.

However there are two major points that need to be raised:

Contrary to what you claim, you have been competing with JNX in assembled kits prior to announcing this DIY, as you have been selling fully assembled CMVS based on this design (found this from the Neogeo threads). Here's one such example of these units you have sold:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neo-Geo-Cust ... 7675.l2557

I hadn't realized until you just now said you had an ebay account and I went back to check that link and surely enough it all makes sense.

It's no wonder JNX was pissed. Your units could very easily have been mistaken for units made by JNX because you made no mention of there being no relation. You didn't even mention that you assembled it yourself!

The next issue since you bring up deleted tweets of JNX (which I haven't seen I have to say), is why didn't you just contact him directly (JNX says you haven't)? Considering how much influence his build has had on your own, it doesn't bode well for your character that you would be following him that closely and didn't even think to send a courtesy email. It's not like he could stop you from carrying out the project either way.

Lastly just to address the comparison of the bottoms, the JNX unit you showed is not what the final product looks like, it also has four large wide round legs on the four corners. EDIT: So turns out it's from a video, screenshot was taken after the reviewer had removed them.


Last edited by Taiyaki on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:33 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
But SCART to YUV converters are cheap and readily available now and work great. Its what most serious retrogaming folks in the US use now anyways. RCA jacks will take up a lot more space than the mini-din he currently shows does and will surely add to the cost, along with the conversion circuitry.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think an RGB output is fine if a standard SCART cable can be purchased with or for it. I'm all for this thing hitting the market ASAP and as cost-effective as possible.


If I have to haul an extra video converter to plug into an ordinary domestic television, it's not really consolised. Convenience is the point.
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:47 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Josh128 wrote:
But SCART to YUV converters are cheap and readily available now and work great. Its what most serious retrogaming folks in the US use now anyways. RCA jacks will take up a lot more space than the mini-din he currently shows does and will surely add to the cost, along with the conversion circuitry.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think an RGB output is fine if a standard SCART cable can be purchased with or for it. I'm all for this thing hitting the market ASAP and as cost-effective as possible.


If I have to haul an extra video converter to plug into an ordinary domestic television, it's not really consolised. Convenience is the point.


When you have an NES, Genesis, Turbografx/PC Engine, SNES, N64, Saturn, and PS1 in a cabinet and running on a Trinitron in the US, you do it by using SCART to component, period. Component output is not an option on ANY of these systems (well, technically you can output component from NESRGB, but thats it), so your only choice for the best picture is SCART.

I mean, its not even up for debate. Anything prior to (excluding DC's VGA) PS2, then SCART RGB is the defacto ultimate signal. From PS2 on up then sure, you can just use component without the need for a converter/transcoder. So anyone that is switching multiple 8/16/24 bit systems is doing it with SCART. If you now have a single system out of all those that doesnt output RGB, now you need an extra switch to switch between your SCART-YUV transcoder output and the component console output. It's an unnecessary inconvenience. I live in the US. My TV only accepts component, but the reasons I just gave are why most folks that are even semi-serious serious about their retro systems are using SCART-YUV. Component output is not an option for most of them.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:55 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
Lastly just to address the comparison of the bottoms, the JNX unit you showed is not what the final product looks like, it also has four large wide round legs on the four corners. You either took them off or have an early revision. The other screws are for stabilizing the board. It's not like the visual of the bottom makes any difference to the design, but I give you credit for admitting you have studied his unit to that extent, as I would expect most of us never really look at the underside of our systems.


This is a screenshot from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH_jy5IQvBE&t=2m58s

ImageImage


Last edited by Lawfer on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:05 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
I mean, its not even up for debate.


I wish there was an ignore feature on the board.

Of course, I can do it manually and I will.
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:12 pm 



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Lawfer wrote:
This is a screenshot from this video:

Thank you for correcting me. I'll edit the message accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:20 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Taiyaki wrote:
I give respect to Marmotta for at least addressing the issue.

However there are two major points that need to be raised:

Contrary to what you claim, you have been competing with JNX in assembled kits prior to announcing this DIY, as you have been selling fully assembled CMVS based on this design (found this from the Neogeo threads). Here's one such example of these units you have sold:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neo-Geo-Cust ... 7675.l2557

I hadn't realized until you just now said you had an ebay account and I went back to check that link and surely enough it all makes sense.

It's no wonder JNX was pissed. Your units could very easily have been mistaken for units made by JNX because you made no mention of there being no relation. You didn't even mention that you assembled it yourself!

The next issue since you bring up deleted tweets of JNX (which I haven't seen I have to say), is why didn't you just contact him directly (JNX says you haven't)? Considering how much influence his build has had on your own, it doesn't bode well for your character that you would be following him that closely and didn't even think to send a courtesy email. It's not like he could stop you from carrying out the project either way.

Lastly just to address the comparison of the bottoms, the JNX unit you showed is not what the final product looks like, it also has four large wide round legs on the four corners. You either took them off or have an early revision. The other screws are for stabilizing the board. It's not like the visual of the bottom makes any difference to the design, but I give you credit for admitting you have studied his unit to that extent, as I would expect most of us never really look at the underside of our systems.


I only saw his comments because they were linked in this thread. I just realised it's not a tweet, but a Facebook post, which is indicative of just how much I'm following him. I thought he'd removed it because, frankly, most of what he's written is straight up libellous. Trust me, I haven't been sitting around twirling my moustache, hatching a plot to take down JNX. Believe it or not, although I was obviously aware of his CMVS, it had very little impact on the process of making mine beyond wanting to find out what enclosure he used to see if it was a suitable one for my purposes.

You seem to be under the illusion that I've had my hands on one of his consoles and copied the layout, which is also not the case. The image is a screenshot from Todd's Nerd Cave Youtube video on it, which I just grabbed now to illustrate a point about him trying to nitpick about the build quality on my console, when his is riddled with screws. You may not consider that as evidence of poor workmanship, others may do.

I've also been open about the fact that I'm going to have a limited number of complete MVS consoles for sale in the UK, as well a few previous iterations that I've sold in the past six months or so. It's not what I plan to do for the most part, but I also have no issues with it either. The point I was trying to make about me offering kits for the most part is that there's still a separate market for the JNX CMVS, not that I'm avoiding selling complete units on some sort of ethical ground.

I'm done justifying what little I feel needed to be justified and a lot more. If people want to avoid buying my kit out of a sense of allegiance to JNX or because of what I'd call misplaced judgements they've made on my moral character, that's fine, I couldn't care less. If people want to avoid doing so because of objective criticisms of the design or finish, that's something I'm far more interested in hearing about.


Last edited by Marmotta on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:24 pm 


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orange808 wrote:

I wish there was an ignore feature on the board.


What a nice guy! Now please explain how you get this component video out of your NES, Genesis, SNES, PS1, N64, PC Engine, and Saturn. NESRGB + HD Retrovision cables + adapters for them all? Right. Thats "convenient".


Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:34 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:25 pm 



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orange808 wrote:
My TimeHarvest NeoGeo machine has component output to feed an American television directly and stereo audio.

Of course, the price of those TimeHarvest machines has really gone up, but those are features US buyers want. RGB SCART wasn't a thing in America and it never will be.

That's my suggestion.


Component output is something I'm looking at, as I understand the US never embraced RGB, but for now my priorities are getting the RGB version of the kit completed and working on an HDMI version.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:33 pm 


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Marmotta wrote:
You seem to be under the illusion that I've had my hands on one of his consoles and copied the layout, which is also not the case. The image is a screenshot from Todd's Retro Cave Youtube video on it, which I just grabbed now to illustrate a point about him trying to nitpick about the build quality on my console, when his is riddled with screws. You may not consider that as evidence of poor workmanship, others may do.


If I may bring in additional info on this, in terms of screws placement and numbers, I have a JNX CMVS and it does not look like the one showed in the video.


Marmotta wrote:
The point I was trying to make about me offering kits for the most part is that there's still a separate market for the JNX CMVS, not that I'm avoiding selling complete units on some sort of ethical ground.


You should sell complete units, you're not stepping on anybody's toes or anything, JNX making a dozen or so CMVS to satisfy a demand numbering in the hundreds if not thousands is not really very good, the fact that there are so little youtube videos showcasing a JNX CMVS unit and only about 2 or 3 units listed on ebay in the past year shows that there isn't that many units out there, people want to buy an CMVS from JNX but they simply can't because it's basically impossible. Not only that, you are in the UK and JNX is in the US, which means cheaper shipping costs for European customers and no import tax.


Last edited by Lawfer on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:38 pm 


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Marmotta wrote:
I'm going to address this all now for one last time and try not to mention it again,

I don't give a hot shit about JNX or his plastic box, but I am curious about your RGB circuit. Care to give some more details on that to clear the air that you're not just AC coupling the lines off the JAMMA edge and calling it a day?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:55 pm 



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Lawfer wrote:
If I may bring in additional info on this, in terms of screws placement and numbers, I have a JNX CMVS and it does not look like the one showed in the video.

You should sell complete units, you're not stepping on anybody's toes or anything, JNX making a dozen or so CMVS to satisfy a demand numbering in the hundreds if not thousands is not really very good, the fact that there are so little youtube videos showcasing a JNX CMVS unit and only about 2 or 3 units listed on ebay in the past year shows that there isn't that many units out there, people want to buy an CMVS from JNX but they simply can't because it's basically impossible. Not only that, you are in the UK and JNX is in the US, which means cheaper shipping costs for European customers and no import tax.


In that case it reiterates the point that I haven't been meticulously studying his console in an attempt to copy it.

I'm not particularly interested in selling complete consoles because I honestly don't want to have to deal with potential returns and repairs on MVS boards that develop faults largely outside of my control, particularly if I'm sending them to countries like the US with ridiculously high international shipping rates. I may consider doing so for Europe at some point, as the costs wouldn't be prohibitive for the occasional return, although the no import tax benefit might no longer be applicable by the end of year :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:02 am 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 32
maxtherabbit wrote:
Marmotta wrote:
I'm going to address this all now for one last time and try not to mention it again,

I don't give a hot shit about JNX or his plastic box, but I am curious about your RGB circuit. Care to give some more details on that to clear the air that you're not just AC coupling the lines off the JAMMA edge and calling it a day?


It's based on the THS7374, all the rest of the circuitry is SMD so fits on the underside of the board. The caps have to be placed on top, as there's not enough clearance for them between the underside of the board and the bottom of the enclosure. I haven't posted any pics of it, as I'm not yet certain what's present now will be the same as the final product, so there was no point opening it up to scrutiny just yet. I've got an oscilloscope coming soon which I'll conduct testing with to ensure everything is compliant with video standards before I show detailed photos or offer anything final for sale.


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