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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:04 am 


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Marmotta wrote:
orange808 wrote:
My TimeHarvest NeoGeo machine has component output to feed an American television directly and stereo audio.

Of course, the price of those TimeHarvest machines has really gone up, but those are features US buyers want. RGB SCART wasn't a thing in America and it never will be.

That's my suggestion.


Component output is something I'm looking at, as I understand the US never embraced RGB, but for now my priorities are getting the RGB version of the kit completed and working on an HDMI version.


Will HDMI output be based on this project?
https://github.com/charcole/NeoGeoHDMI
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:07 am 


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Marmotta wrote:
In that case it reiterates the point that I haven't been meticulously studying his console in an attempt to copy it.


I am thinking he improved/changed on the design which lowered the amout of screws used and their placements, the screenshot is from a 2017 video.


Marmotta wrote:
I'm not particularly interested in selling complete consoles because I honestly don't want to have to deal with potential returns and repairs on MVS boards that develop faults largely outside of my control, particularly if I'm sending them to countries like the US with ridiculously high international shipping rates. I may consider doing so for Europe at some point, as the costs wouldn't be prohibitive for the occasional return


That is perfectly understandable, but it would be nice to sell them for Europe at least. There aren't many other options out there, there was JNX which could satisfy 1% of the demand (if even that much) but now apparently he is going to stop so there isn't even that anymore and then there are chinese ones from alliexpress which may suffer from issues and could even blow up your hardware (like your OSSC) and that's pretty much it?


Marmotta wrote:
although the no import tax benefit might no longer be applicable by the end of year :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:33 am 


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You know what I really want is just a cool enclosure I could use with my supergun lol

Question the metal peice that you need to remove I believe is maybe a heat sink? Is that not needed?

I also noticed the potentiometer gone too


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:15 pm 



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Yes i would be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:51 pm 


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Hmm, now curious- if a Saturn adapter could be offered as a side item, any idea on price? I'm seeing $25-30 for individual 1-port adapters on ebay (I'm probably overlooking some community-made ones).


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:32 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Hmm, now curious- if a Saturn adapter could be offered as a side item, any idea on price? I'm seeing $25-30 for individual 1-port adapters on ebay (I'm probably overlooking some community-made ones).



RGB offers Saturn adaptors with zero lag
Forget how much but it wont break the bank


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:26 pm 


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Shelcoof wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Hmm, now curious- if a Saturn adapter could be offered as a side item, any idea on price? I'm seeing $25-30 for individual 1-port adapters on ebay (I'm probably overlooking some community-made ones).



RGB offers Saturn adaptors with zero lag
Forget how much but it wont break the bank


Only seeing them in a bundle with the HAS supergun?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:27 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Hmm, now curious- if a Saturn adapter could be offered as a side item, any idea on price? I'm seeing $25-30 for individual 1-port adapters on ebay (I'm probably overlooking some community-made ones).

I offer a Saturn adapter. It's available on my website https://arthrimus.com/product/saturn-to ... r-adapter/
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:32 pm 


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I'm interested. Price is kind of steep.

Is really prefer a solution that attaches via the JAMMA edge instead of soldering.
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:45 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 56
What sort of timescales are you looking at, for when it’s ready to sell?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:44 pm 


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Marmotta, any update on timelines? My MVS unit is coming in this weekend and Im ready to purchase one of your kits right now.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:08 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 31
Shelcoof wrote:
You know what I really want is just a cool enclosure I could use with my supergun lol

Question the metal peice that you need to remove I believe is maybe a heat sink? Is that not needed?

I also noticed the potentiometer gone too


The only parts that are absolutely necessary to remove are the heatsink and the battery


bobrocks95 wrote:
Hmm, now curious- if a Saturn adapter could be offered as a side item, any idea on price?


I've no idea on price, just that it is entirely feasible. I was thinking more like an entirely different controller board and front panel, rather than an adapter, as there are already options out there.


the Goat wrote:
I'm interested. Price is kind of steep. Is really prefer a solution that attaches via the JAMMA edge instead of soldering.


I'd also prefer a JAMMA edge connector, but I couldn't find an enclosure that was anywhere near compact, while still offering enough space for a JAMMA connector.


lunch_box wrote:
What sort of timescales are you looking at, for when it’s ready to sell?


Work is progressing on it, but it's slowed a bit as I've been having to work more hours over the past few weeks. I'm hoping to be able to offer concrete pricing and ordering options by next weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:37 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2011
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Drop me a message when they are ready for sale. Still interested :)


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:48 am 



Joined: 01 Jun 2020
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I'm very interested in those controller connector boards. I am building my own CMVS and don't need the full kit, but if they're available soon I'd be keen to pick them up on their own.

If they're based on an open source design, or if anyone knows of anything similar I'd be interested as well.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:33 pm 


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I dont mean to be a downer here, but I was wondering what the legal ramifications are for selling a kit like this with the Neo Geo and MVS logos on them. Are the trademarks for the logos still active/enforceable and how do they vary from country to country? I see people selling vinyl and metal SNK / NeoGeo / MVS logos on Ebay all the time, not to mention the Timeharvest units wtih the logos all over them, so what gives there?

I did notice that JammaNationX does not put such logos on his CMVS units either, but every now and then you find a seller that did a custom build that does put them. Im debating on designing a faceplate to fit the NeoJamma CVMS units Ive been building to make them more appealing but not so sure about putting Neo Geo or MVS logos on it. I do have one of these kits from Marmotta, but I was planning to keep it for myself if the AV quality is up to par with the NeoJamma kits (which are perfect).

I do know that the MVS / Neo * Geo logos were trademarked close to 30 years ago, and I can no longer find the MVS logo with a US Trademark Electronic Search, but I do see the SNK/Playmore as still being active. Anyone have any idea about this type of stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:33 pm 


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Finally got around to building Marmottas kit last night. I was able to boot to crosshatch, which looked good, but due to power connector issues (my power supply connector, not the kits) I was not able to get in game to check audio quality and video color / sharpness.

The install was actually quite easy, didnt even take as long as soldering/populating one of the NeoJamma Supergun units Ive been selling. I look forward to testing, but I can say with confidence this must be the most compact enclosure possible for an MV1C board. Front to back, you might have 1 mm of free space in total between the board front and back edges and the enclosure panels. Its not a problem for installation though, as all you have to do is flip the MVS to access top and bottom when soldering, and theres plenty of slack included in the leads for that. Top to bottom, you MUST remove the audio amp heatsink to fit the board into the case as it is much too tall. The end result though, is really, really clean and concise looking.

As I said, I havent been able to really test the unit yet, one of the things Im concerned with is A/V crosstalk with the SCART lead I purchased from Marmotta with the kit, as he said the wires are not individually shielded. My experience with the NeoJamma superguns has shown that non-individually shielded SCART leads can have HUGE audio noise induced by the video signals, especially on bright screens. I'll reserve judgement on that until Im able to test though.

Functionally, the unit does not have buttons for coin inputs and REQUIRES a UniBIOS, else you cant insert a coin to play a game. I understand it was designed with that in mind but at the very least adding a single coin switch somewhere on the unit would be a good idea. Some folks may not want to fiddle with a UniBIOS installation, which even with the advent of the NeoBIOSMasta PCBs, can be hairpulling at times (getting good CPU contact with NBM socket, etc). A coin switch would eliminate that, and of course if there is no UniBIOS, a test switch might be in order also so that you dont have to open the case to access the DIP switches to set software DIPs, etc. I think there is plenty of room on the case to place 2 tiny push button switches for these functions, but to make it look nice, he'd have to update his CNC laser cut panels to include labels for them.

Finally, the last two things I would like to see are a power indication LED and a front or at least side panel power switch. As is, it would be entirely possible to accidentally leave the console on and never realize it due to no PLED. The switch on the back is not a deal breaker, but would be better on the front or at least side of the unit IMO.

More details and photos when I get some time to test.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:04 pm 


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coin is pin 3 on the DA-15 joystick inputs


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:20 pm 


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10-4 but that is also the pin for select on the AES and Neo CD controllers, so if you do wire it to the coin position on the mainboard, you cant access the in game UniBIOS menu if you have a UniBIOS. I guess its not that big of a deal as you wire it depending on your system, but if there was a dedicated coin button you wouldnt have to choose.

Perhaps the lack of a test button is the bigger issue, because if you dont have a UniBIOS, no matter how you wire the select button, you cant access the soft dips / test screen without accessing the hardware dips. If you boot without a cart and hit start you can access some things, but not sure if there are specific options that appear when you access the menu with a cart installed.

All in all its nitpicking really, but he asked for feedback and thats my preliminary feedback is all. (That and color codes/ wiring documentation lol, it was touch and go for a while because I couldnt get in contact with Marmotta. I almost had to disassemble and access the bottom of the video board to get the video pinouts-- they were not measurable from the wire end to the SCART) There is certainly room on the front or rear panels for a couple extra buttons and a power LED.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to test it out, going to be busy this afternoon.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:54 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
10-4 but that is also the pin for select on the AES and Neo CD controllers, so if you do wire it to the coin position on the mainboard, you cant access the in game UniBIOS menu if you have a UniBIOS. I guess its not that big of a deal as you wire it depending on your system, but if there was a dedicated coin button you wouldnt have to choose.

Perhaps the lack of a test button is the bigger issue, because if you dont have a UniBIOS, no matter how you wire the select button, you cant access the soft dips / test screen without accessing the hardware dips. If you boot without a cart and hit start you can access some things, but not sure if there are specific options that appear when you access the menu with a cart installed.

All in all its nitpicking really, but he asked for feedback and thats my preliminary feedback is all. (That and color codes/ wiring documentation lol, it was touch and go for a while because I couldnt get in contact with Marmotta. I almost had to disassemble and access the bottom of the video board to get the video pinouts-- they were not measurable from the wire end to the SCART) There is certainly room on the front or rear panels for a couple extra buttons and a power LED.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to test it out, going to be busy this afternoon.

I have never owned an AES or Neo CD pad, but my understanding was that was the whole point of using pin 3 for coin. So that you could insert coins from the controller when playing on an MVS.

The whole concept of using the game select buttons on a single slot MVS only exists because of pick'n'mix. That's very "modern" in the grand scheme of things


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:25 pm 


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Where to contact Marmotta for a purchase opportunity? Why start a topic here and then now follow up with updates, links or contact infos? *sigh*


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:42 am 


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It's probably because he's still not selling them yet. The unit I have is a prototype he agreed to sell me on the condition that well, it is a prototype and there may or may not still be some bugs and installation instructions were much pretty non-existent. And indeed I found a pretty big issue today when I realized my controllers werent working despite getting the wiring color codes and a very basic installation guide from him. Turns out the power and ground wires for the controllers, which are wired to the 2nd controller port and jumped internally on the controller PCB to the 1st controller port were wired backwards.

After some troubleshooting and continuity checks I found that this unit had the RED wire connected to pin 1 (GND) on the controller port and the black wire connected to pin 8 (+5V). The instruction he sent me indeed specified that the red was for +5v and the black was for ground so it was definitely a mistake he made when building it. In any case, I corrected the issue and tied the black to +5 and the red to ground and I was able to boot into the test menu and check all buttons on both controllers and they all work properly now.

Unfortunately I was still not able to test in game because even though I got a good crosshatch screen with no cart inserted, I get a teal blue screen with my 161 in 1 cart inserted, despite this being a 100% working unit (previously on a NeoJamma supergun) prior to installing in this kit. I'm not blaming that on this kit as of yet though, I believe its an issue with my NeoBIOSMasta not making good contact with the CPU from all the shuffling around of the main board, and I did have to steal my BIOS rom out of this unit to test another unit. Im fairly confident I can get this resolved and I hope that is the case so I can finally test the unit properly.

As far as Marmotta, dude is notoriously hard to get ahold of, even for info on the unit after I bought from him. Try to PM him here, its what I did and it took several weeks to get a response, but when he finally did we made the deal.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:02 am 


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Quote:
dude is notoriously hard to get ahold of

maybe that's part of the deal. After all he's replacing Jamma Nation X :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:59 am 


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Josh, as I just seen this on the flashcart thread (the link to rené's page) :

the 161-in-1 Neo Geo cart is gonna put a strain on consoles, even more so than the other flawed flashcarts. Unless it's designed as been revised. Just thought I'd pass the info, in case you didn't know.

http://web.archive.org/web/20191125170020/https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/#Neo_Geo_161_in_1
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:30 pm 


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Thanks, Ive heard some rumblings about it and also heard that the newer carts may be safer but still have some flaws and Razoola, the creator of the UniBIOS, has published some info on fixing (some of) it. I havent opened mine up to see if it has the voltage regulator, but may do so in light of this and also try the fix mentioned by Razoola.

My plan is to get a NeoSD eventually and retire or sell the 161 in 1. I would imagine its a much better design than the 161 in 1.


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:19 pm 



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Have you seen all the info from gadgetuk on multicart fixes? I think segasonicfan has a video or two about the 161 too. If you’ve not seen them, have a look on YouTube :-)
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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:57 pm 


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Even with all the fixes the 161 carts are still pretty shit build quality. I realise they are the most economical by far and away but this is a case of you get what you pay for


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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:35 am 


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Finally got everything going. After some poking around, I realized my system voltage was only 4.6V with no cart when powered on (I would get the all tests passed crosshatch), which is low already, but when I would insert the cartridge, it the voltage would droop to 3.6V and this was why I was getting the blue screen with cart.

The reason for my voltage drop was not my PSU or my cart, but the wire I used to build my power connector. My standard 2.1 mm x 5.5 mm connectors I had for the NeoJamma superguns would not fit, I needed a 2.5x5.5 and I found one amongst my junk so I constructed a cable out of some old RCA audio wire and soldered to the wires on the connector. Needless to say, ~ 30 AWG wire is only rated at an ampacity of 0.5A , which is not sufficient to power an MV1C MVS with a cart inserted :mrgreen: . After replacing the 30 AWG wire with something a bit larger, I got almost no voltage droop with the cart and it worked fine first power up.

Getting back to the kit itself, it must literally be the smallest enclosure one could install an MV1C in. I had to modify my battery holder because it was way too tall for the top cover to fit. OK great, did that. Tried again, it still wouldnt close. Looked again, the audio amp that I removed the heatsink from was too tall. Had to bend it down flat (turned out this worked as a clip to help neaten the wires nearby). Tried to put the top on again and it would close, but was bulging up near the front still. Checked again and the freakin BIOS ROM was pressing against the top!! :!: . I literally had to take the ROM out of the socket and trim the legs with diagonal cutters to get my ROM to seat further in the socket. When I say there is no more room in the case, I mean it. Its crazy small. The cartridge connector you see in the photos is only about 1.5 mm below flush with case cutout.

Graphics and sound looked and sounded great on my Trinitron Wega, but the 8 pin mini DIN connector is very finnicky and easily drops an audio channel or video sync if not seated just right. As it stands now, that is my biggest gripe with this unit, well that and the rear power switch, which is actually hard and awkward to reach when you have a cart inserted. Oh and no power indicator light. Despite everyones disdain for SCART, I find the SCART connector on the NeoJamma supergun to make a much more solid and worry free connection compared to the mini DIN.

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Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:08 am 


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A few screenshots from the unit. Had to take some of these in motion because I couldnt access dip switch 8 to freeze the screen as I normally do when photographing. Still came out quite decent. I find the output of his video amp / coupling circuit to be quite nice. Colors are balanced and intensity seems just right.

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 Post subject: Re: New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:03 pm 


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I just got a NeoSD and tried it on the system yesterday, and I must say after spending some time with the unit, it works well and has a very nice, balanced picture. Ergonomically and visually though, I think the unit could use a revision. Specifically, the lack of a front power switch and a power indicator LED really hold the unit back from perfection, IMO. Ive created some images of what I had in mind and would like to see what everyone here thinks about the changes. I think they could be implemented rather easily and would make this a really great DIY CMVS.

Ive done some photos with Red, Blue, and Green power LEDs. I like them all, but for some reason the green jumps out at me as a cool color combo with the red/white scheme. I like the blue almost as much.

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