New DIY Neo Geo CMVS Kit - gauging opinions and feedback

[Marmotta]

I've been working on this for quite some time and am on the verge of offering it for sale, just looking for some feedback and people's general views on it. Although the current batch can't really be changed, just looking for opinions on pricing and options, as well as potential changes in future revisions. I intend to have a small website set up for it and some other small projects I have in the pipeline, with installation instructions.

The kit will include an ABS plastic case with a CNC milled cartridge slot, custom laser etched and cut front and rear panels in red/white, front I/O board for controller and rear I/O for power and AV, as well as a motherboard tray to install them and the MV-1C MVS board. While the design borrows heavily from the JNX CMVS, the laser cut motherboard tray really makes it look very clean when assembled, with no externally visible screws at all.

I will have custom RGB stereo SCART leads and power supplies available to buy separately; I don't intend on including them as the AV out is compatible with RGC's Packapunch Mini-DIN 8 leads and the power supplies I have are a bit overkill at 4A (and therefore more expensive than necessary), so people can choose whatever best suits their needs.

The plan is to send the kits assembled, so all that is required would be to solder the MVS board to the colour-coded leads and screws the top of the case in place. This could be done either very easily by soldering some leads to the topside of the board or very cleanly (and still reasonably easily) by soldering everything to the underside. Including prepping an MVS board, total install time shouldn't be much longer than 30-45 minutes for anyone with very basic soldering skills.

One thing I will likely include that isn't currently pictured is a custom PCB for the battery, as this has to be positioned horizontally in order to fit in the case, so I feel it would be silly not to. The case does support a NeoBiosMasta for easy installation of a Unibios, although I will also be offering my own not-quite-as-elegant-but-cheaper option as well.

Although I need to double-check all the figures, I think I'd be looking at around £85-90 (GBP) for the kits. Postage within the UK would be £4-5 and most international options would be £11-14 tracked. This price would just about make it worthwhile producing the kits, but would also mean that for around £150 people could build a very clean-looking CMVS for themselves or even be able to sell it on at a profit. I will be building a very limited number of CMVSs myself to offer for sale in the UK.

Is this something you guys would be interested in or could see other people take a shine to? Would you consider the proposed price reasonable or would it be a deterrent to purchasing? Is there anything in particular you'd like to see done differently on it or possibly incorporated into future revisions? I am already working on adding digital HDMI output and wireless controller support for it as options in future versions. Are these features people would be interested in? I know that while both would be welcomed for most other retro platforms, they're a bit more contentious in the Neo Geo scene for.... reasons.

Anyway, let me know what you think and I'm more than happy to discuss the project (that's what forums are for after all )

[Kez]

These look very cool indeed. I think the price is very reasonable all things considered. I'd definitely be interested, for one.. Especially as I'm in the UK!

Can't really think of any major criticisms. Might be worth including a universe bios in the kit, or offering different colours if feasible.. But those are only minor things really!

[hellbelly]

That is very nice looking and a great price. Is the RGB properly setup to the correct levels?

Pete

[Marmotta]

These look very cool indeed. I think the price is very reasonable all things considered. I'd definitely be interested, for one.. Especially as I'm in the UK!

Can't really think of any major criticisms. Might be worth including a universe bios in the kit, or offering different colours if feasible.. But those are only minor things really!

I'll have options for the universe bios, but I don't think it's something that I'd include as standard, as it isn't a necessity (unlike the battery holder). The case is only available in white or light grey, but different colours for the laser cut front and rear panels are definitely a possibility if the demand is there.

That is very nice looking and a great price. Is the RGB properly setup to the correct levels?

Yes, I forgot to include it, but most of the video circuitry is on the underside of the AV/power PCB with proper amplification and sync attenuation. It's set up ideally for use on a CRT with no additional resistors or caps on the cable, aside from 180 ohm one on the 5V line, hence why it's ideal for RGC's Mini DIN 8 lead. Still looks good on an LCD though

[poklement]

This is really nice, and I would love to buy one!
Any chance you would ship to Japan and wire the cable for JP RGB21 instead of EuroScart?
I would pay any extra needed and more for the hassle, of course ^^
Thanks in advance for your attention.

[thegreathopper]

Great work, well done.

[Josh128]

Beautiful man, I love the simple, concise, no-nonsense look and compactness of it.

Just a question for others, can the MVS play AES carts or is there a mod to allow it? Also, what other quirks are there to be aware of when using an MVS?

I look at those controller ports and an adapter to attach a MD 6 button, Saturn, or SNES controller almost seems obligatory though. Perhaps not from the creator, but the community.

Is all thats needed for a complete MVS system with your kit included in the kit below??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Arcade-NEO ... 0009.m1982

[bobrocks95]

Looks quite nice! Love the big red styling for the front and back plates.

I think the only thing I'd want is Saturn controller support, but there might be a simple solution for that

Oh it also totally looks like it should be in a metal enclosure, but the cost there is probably unreasonable. Just kind of strikes me as Extron-style professional equipment since it looks so clean.

[Kez]

I'll have options for the universe bios, but I don't think it's something that I'd include as standard, as it isn't a necessity (unlike the battery holder). The case is only available in white or light grey, but different colours for the laser cut front and rear panels are definitely a possibility if the demand is there.

My bad, didn't fully read your post when I looked last night (unless you edited it). One other thing I would perhaps suggest is putting the power button in a more accessible location. Again it's a minor thing, but depending on people's setup reaching all the way around back to turn it on may be really inconvenient.

[Taiyaki]

That's the same casing JNX uses. While he probably doesn't own copyright on it, I still find it a somewhat lousy move to borrow an established design made by a fellow in the community.

Looks great, but that's to be expected since the CMVS by JNX was incredibly well thought out and sleek in design. Although I will say the power button would be better in the front, at least that would be my personal preference.

[Lawfer]

Pretty cool considering that the JNX CMVS is basically impossible to get (unless you are willing to spend 500+ for a used one on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283742802501 ), too bad that just like the JNX CMVS it also uses the MV-1C board revision which has no memory card support capabilities, which would make saving games progress impossible and the NeoSD Pro MVS has no save states either.

[Marmotta]

This is really nice, and I would love to buy one!
Any chance you would ship to Japan and wire the cable for JP RGB21 instead of EuroScart?
I would pay any extra needed and more for the hassle, of course ^^
Thanks in advance for your attention.

Sure, JP21 cables would be an option. They'd only be fractionally more expensive, if at all.

Just a question for others, can the MVS play AES carts or is there a mod to allow it? Also, what other quirks are there to be aware of when using an MVS?

I look at those controller ports and an adapter to attach a MD 6 button, Saturn, or SNES controller almost seems obligatory though. Perhaps not from the creator, but the community.

Is all thats needed for a complete MVS system with your kit included in the kit below??

Generally adapters work the other way round, since MVS games are usually far cheaper. There are plenty of different controller adapters out there - the Neo Geo DB15 connector is very versatile since it just passes through a separate signal for each button. Just an MVS board as linked and very basic soldering skills would be required to get it up and running.

I think the only thing I'd want is Saturn controller support, but there might be a simple solution for that

Oh it also totally looks like it should be in a metal enclosure, but the cost there is probably unreasonable.

I didn't want to have the design look too messy with a bunch of different ports, but if it's worth doing in the future, I might make an optional controller board and front panel for Saturn pads. At the moment, beyond finalising the initial design I'm focusing on wireless controller support.

Metal would've been prohibitively expensive, not only due to the cost of the enclosure, but also because I don't have the equipment to mill it.

Looks great, but that's to be expected since the CMVS by JNX was incredibly well thought out and sleek in design. Although I will say the power button would be better in the front, at least that would be my personal preference.

The enclosure is the PC-11481-LG and anyone can buy it. JNX has had his say on it on Twitter and Facebook, so I don't want to go into that much, but a lot more work goes into this than finding a suitable enclosure and I've attempted to make it look distinctive.

My personal preference would have been to have the power button on the front as well, but as a kit it would have meant more wires, not only from the power jack to the power switch, but then also back from the board to the AV circuitry; placing it right next to the power jack was the best solution I had from a design perspective.

too bad that just like the JNX CMVS it also uses the MV-1C board revision which has no memory card support capabilities, which would make saving games progress impossible

You could use a NeoBiosMasta VMC when they're back in stock.

https://www.neogeofanclub.com/projects/neobiosmasta-vmc

[Taiyaki]

Pretty cool considering that the JNX CMVS is basically impossible to get (unless you are willing to spend 500+ for a used one on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283742802501 ), too bad that just like the JNX CMVS it also uses the MV-1C board revision which has no memory card support capabilities, which would make saving games progress impossible and the NeoSD Pro MVS has no save states either.

Not sure what you mean. It is possible, you just use a virtual memory card. It's visually more appealing since you don't need to cut a whole for the card slot. The only situation where I can see this as a problem is if you have multiple units and want to use the saves in several places.

[lunch_box]

I would be in for one. Always fancied a cmvs and this looks ideal!

When are you hoping to start taking orders? How much will
You sell fully working units for? (If you have any for sale that is)

Thanks

[Travis1979]

When will these be available for purchase? I think they look great and would make everything clean.

[Lawfer]

Pretty cool considering that the JNX CMVS is basically impossible to get (unless you are willing to spend 500+ for a used one on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283742802501 ), too bad that just like the JNX CMVS it also uses the MV-1C board revision which has no memory card support capabilities, which would make saving games progress impossible and the NeoSD Pro MVS has no save states either.

Not sure what you mean. It is possible, you just use a virtual memory card. It's visually more appealing since you don't need to cut a whole for the card slot. The only situation where I can see this as a problem is if you have multiple units and want to use the saves in several places.

Only certain MVS revisions have a Memory Card support capabilities to save game progress (not just high scores), apparently only the MV2F and MV2FS revisions have a memory card slot. I don't know much about unofficial methods though.

Are you talking about this? https://www.neogeofanclub.com/projects/neosavemasta-vmc

Or this? https://live.staticflickr.com/1213/8347 ... 4151_k.jpg

You could use a NeoBiosMasta VMC when they're back in stock.

https://www.neogeofanclub.com/projects/neobiosmasta-vmc

Don't really want to use a bios replacement just for that, I find it's a little overkill just to add saves.

[Taiyaki]

Only certain MVS revisions have a Memory Card support capabilities to save game progress (not just high scores), apparently only the MV2F and MV2FS revisions have a memory card slot. I don't know much about unofficial methods though.

Are you talking about this? https://www.neogeofanclub.com/projects/neosavemasta-vmc

Or this? https://live.staticflickr.com/1213/8347 ... 4151_k.jpg

Not sure what you mean. Using a VMC you can save both high scores and game stage saves. You can copy, delete and do all the same as if there was a real card inside. Don't you use unibios anyway? There's nothing more to do other than the install. It's a very simple and clean solution.

[RevQuixo]

Way to rip off the JNX design. Exact same case and layout. Normally folks here would be up in arms about this sort of thing.

[opt2not]

Way to rip off the JNX design. Exact same case and layout. Normally folks here would be up in arms about this sort of thing.

That's why this looks so familiar.

Yeah, that's not cool. No mention of JNX in the initial post either. Yikes.

[NormalFish]

not my scene but this seems relevant:

[BONKERS]

Guys he just gave you the part number
https://www.amazon.com/BUD-Industries-P ... B005T57TFA
Doesn't look like it's a unique product made by one person.


My only gripe with this design is that I wish the entire enclosure was that beautiful Neo Geo Red cab design.

[Kez]

Yeah, that's not cool. No mention of JNX in the initial post either. Yikes.

JNX is mentioned in the original post:

The kit will include an ABS plastic case with a CNC milled cartridge slot, custom laser etched and cut front and rear panels in red/white, front I/O board for controller and rear I/O for power and AV, as well as a motherboard tray to install them and the MV-1C MVS board. While the design borrows heavily from the JNX CMVS, the laser cut motherboard tray really makes it look very clean when assembled, with no externally visible screws at all.

Let's be realistic here, JNX is obviously very good at what they do and has made many excellent contributions to the community. But as far as this design goes, I suspect if you gave 100 people that box and asked them to house an MV1C in it.. you would end up with close to 100 very similar looking final results. The JNX CMVS is certainly a well-made and reliable product, and the enclosure was a good find, kudos to JNX for that but they certainly don't have any right to a monopoly on sticking MVS boards in a box and cutting a few holes in it - even if the box is from the same manufacturer. Same goes for the RGB and controller circuits.. these things are not new or unique to JNX. Heck the controller PCB is just connecting wires to pins, and presumably the RGB one is a standard THS amp circuit.

If OP was trying to pass these off as being somehow affiliated with JNX then there would obviously be an issue, but that is not the case at all.

[Taiyaki]

Let's be realistic here, JNX is obviously very good at what they do and has made many excellent contributions to the community. But as far as this design goes, I suspect if you gave 100 people that box and asked them to house an MV1C in it.. you would end up with close to 100 very similar looking final results. The JNX CMVS is certainly a well-made and reliable product, and the enclosure was a good find, kudos to JNX for that but they certainly don't have any right to a monopoly on sticking MVS boards in a box and cutting a few holes in it - even if the box is from the same manufacturer. Same goes for the RGB and controller circuits.. these things are not new or unique to JNX. Heck the controller PCB is just connecting wires to pins, and presumably the RGB one is a standard THS amp circuit.

If OP was trying to pass these off as being somehow affiliated with JNX then there would obviously be an issue, but that is not the case at all.

I somewhat disagree. Of all the various enclosures one can buy on the market he had to pick the same that a fellow modder in the community has been using for many years. JNX is very established and respected in the gaming community. There are at most 6 or 7 recognizable designs for cmvs, and this is one of them. While legally it's definitely in the clear, as fellow modder it's arguably unethical.

JNX has been around for what feels like forever, he can be found on many message boards and online communities giving help and advice to fellow modders as well as helping them out when they need it. The least our community can do is show some respect to such individuals imo.

[Shelcoof]

These kits are no different then your do it yourself fight sticks you build on your own.

I don't think its such a big issue to be honest.

[Konsolkongen]

OP: Please take a picture of the backside of your RGB board, because some people seem to think that you only run the RGB lines through capacitors even though you say otherwise in your second post. Would be good for you to make this clear to everyone as soon as possible

That nut right next to the power switch pins looks dangerously close in your picture. Is there a risk of shorting out? Maybe move or remove it altogether?

Otherwise I think it looks like a solid enough product, the design isn't to my taste but I guess I can appreciate the simplicity of it. I do like the red panels though

[Josh128]

Well you know what boys? A quick Google search for JNX CMVS or Jamma Nation X Neo Geo MVS Console kit yields currently ZERO ways to purchase anything remotely resembling what Marmotta is peddling, and going to http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/store.html gets me a 504 Gateway Time-out, so I dont see a problem at all. If this chap can sell me a decently priced, nice looking kit like this that actually works, Im all in and I want one.

If JNX has a good product to offer he should worry more about advertising it and making it available to purchase at a competitive price instead of slandering this guy for trying to bring a DIY kit to market. Granted, I've been out of the loop / community since mid- 2015 when my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and Ive only recently in the past few months gotten back into it, but I honestly had no idea the JNX CMVS kit existed-- and I still dont know how to get one or what it even costs.

**EDIT - I was finally able to get into the JNX site and see the CMVS costs from $250-$450. Thats a huge price range and zero details are given as to what would cause the difference, plus the kits are currently unavailable. In fact, Im not even sure whether they are kits or the guy builds the units and sells them prebuilt-- but at those prices I would certainly hope thats the case.

Regardless, if Marmotta is bringing his own DIY kits at a good price and availability, Im all for it. If his kit is of low quality, as JNX is saying, that will come to light soon enough and he wont sell many. But I do indeed love the look (much cooler than the JNX IMO) and I want one now.

[Fudoh]

I was absolutely willing to buy a JNX one, but you simply can't. Last ordering window sometime last year was like 10 seconds and he didn't even bother to reply to any email. So what's the point? I very much welcome Marmotta's offer and I'll certainly get one (if I can).

[Josh128]

I couldnt take it anymore, snapped up an MV-1C board from a China seller on Ebay. In the event I get it and its real, I want to install it in one of OP's boxes ASAP. I hope you will have one ready to ship across the pond for me soon.

[Taiyaki]

It's not a matter of how it affects sales for JNX, but rather that this shows a complete disregard for his hard work. JNX did not come up with the enclosure one two three, it was a long trial and error testing many enclosures over several years (this is all documented online), it took him a lot of hard work to come up with the final result.

There was nothing shady about his prices, JNX does not sell kits, he only sold fully assembled units. It depended on what you wanted, you could have added all sorts of features such as virtual memory cards, unibios, component, s-video, perhaps hdmi, different color led's etc, and the list goes on. He used to do a full break down of costs in great detail for the parts he'd use, which I found impressive.

In regards to Fudoh not getting a reply that's probably because two Youtubers reviewed his system and demand for one went sky high, he wrote on his social media at the time that he was getting so many demands he couldn't keep up. He was still present and responding to community members at the Neo Geo forums as well as other modding communities, and despite the overwhelming requests for one he never increased the prices.

JNX doesn't assemble his systems like say Arcadeworks does with the Omega, or Analogue with the now discontinued Analogue CMVS. Those fellows put them together in record time at speeds one would expect at a factory (and the final result shows this in my experience). In fact JNX taught the guy at Omega how to fix the issues the system had originally based on documented threads probably still available, he also helped the guy from Analogue as well. JNX runs a small operation and he appears to always charges less than his competitors based on everything I've ever seen him sell. I think that one could argue he's not a good businessman, but he is a man of high integrity, and reportedly doesn't feel good with himself charging people more than what his work is worth, and that's something I respect.

Apparently based on his social media accounts he has announced he is ending his runs of cmvs, the decision is based on what Marmotta is doing.

[Shelcoof]

If JNX is ending his run of CMVS then all the better that Marmotta is providing an alternative to it.

I know JNX put in a lot of R&D to figure things out but that doesn't mean anyone else can't go ahead and build their own or even offer kits.

Its not like Marmotta is pirating Music CDs or Movie DVDs