Win98SE will NOT install without ERRORS (and can't game!)

[Dochartaigh]

I have all my consoles I want modded, RGB everything, Everdrives, ODE's, CRT's, Upscalers...the works. My final frontier, like literally the last retro gaming thing I wanted to do was get a Windows 98 SE computer setup and running with later DOS games, and early Win95/98 games. I've failed, and failed harder than I ever have on any other gaming project. Spent about 150 hours over the last 6 weeks, way more money than I'm willing to admit (these can't be found locally by me), bought 3 different working computers (and revived one I had ~20 years ago), and I still can't get a stable Win98SE computer up and running.

I've done OVER 30 WINDOWS SE INSTALLATIONS. I've switched out every single part. Used numerous different Windows ISO's (MD5'd and all), and an official Win98 disc (and have another SE on the way). 3x different Slot 1 Processors (and 370), 5x video cards (well, 3x video cards + 2x Voodoo2's), 4x sets of RAM, 3x mechanical HDD's, 2x SSD's (and 1x SD card, 1x CF card), 6+ SATA to IDE adapters (and a PATA/IDE/SATA PCI card), 4x audio cards (1x ISA 3x PCI), 3x power supplies, 4? CD/DVD burner drives, etc. etc. etc... I think I've covered the gamut that it's not one, or two, or even three parts that are failing since I've used so many of everything...

Since everybody is telling me it HAS to be a bad part or a bad driver my last weekend trials has been to literally strip everything down to the bare minimum. NEW MotherBoard, NEW RAM, switched in another stock power supply, used a 40gb mechanical drive (tested ALL sectors 100% clean too), and literally only have plugged in a CD-ROM drive, a TNT2 video card, keyboard/mouse/monitor. Nothing else. Used an official Windows 98 CD and over the course of ~4x Windows installs get blue screens, missing DLL files left and right, black can't-boot-any further screen, etc.

The spoiler below is from this post (where you can get a better idea of the problems and what I've tried) and is a laundry list (i.e. rant of all the sorts of problems I've had. This post was this weekends new fails if that helps as well. Here's an overall photo album of random errors I took pics of.

Spoiler

Most common problems is the computer hanging...and I don't mean for like 5 or 10 seconds. I'm talking minutes then a whole bunch of things (i.e. places I was clicking) will pop-up all of the sudden....and usually crash afterwards. Not being able to restart because of mysterious processes it has to 'end task'/kill (with no name of that process in the blue header). The lovely repeating problem of Explorer freezing if I move, copy, or delete a lot of files (seems to be a fault of IE6). Disk initialization errors on brand new HDDs. VFAT errors, sound stuttering, font corruption while blue screening and on system pop-up windows, duplicate drivers for no reason, missing driver files not on Windows CD's (which they are there, I checked...), kernel errors, shutdown errors (with errors that can't be found on ALL of google/duckduckgo!), inability for registry edits to take, missing sections of graphics of windows like Explorer, showing 4x different windows when I only have one single instance open, stack overflows, runtime errors, the Windows Start button itself disappearing..., network password prompts magically popping up (I have no network setup, let alone a ethernet card...), Voodoo driver issues, CRT monitor blanking out numerous times after Voodoo drivers, etc. etc. etc.

To add insult to injury I did have one pretty perfect install....ALL drivers working. no glitches (yet). So I then backed it up with Norton Ghost 2003.... then the Voodoo2 drivers made my CRT loose sync upon boot-up multiple times in a row and killed that install....and when I restored with Norton I could no longer delete files with Explorer...so I had to reformat again and start from scratch....that was last night FYI).

Just an hour ago for instance, I install Windows 98 SE from scratch, again. I literally burned a brand new CD AND installed a brand new CD burner, and used a new IDE cable (I'm grasping at straws...but just in case either was bad/malfunctioning...). After it boots up I go to drag the misc icons from the desktop (like the folder with AOL links in it, the "connect to the Internet" shortcut, IE shortcut, etc.) and drag them into the trash and get an error that it can't be deleted. Reboot, delete those, system then takes 2 minutes to open Explorer. I try to reboot again, and it won't let me "the program is not responding" and do I want to "Wait" or "End Task" (which the program name is missing from the top blue bar so I don't even know what it is that's holding up reboot). System then freezes and I have to reboot again... This is on a fresh install. NOTHING was installed yet. Not even a single driver (and again, it does things like this when I pull all cards for the Windows installation, AND things like this has happened on multiple different computers).

^^ the above was from a post from last weekend (outlining fails over the course of this project). This weekend has been all about VFAT errors, blue screens, and missing DLL's – even using an OFFICIAL non-scratched Windows 98 CD (non-SE version I got sent by mistake...but I thought I'd try it anyway) to limit it to being a burned disc (and again, tried of CD and copied to HDD and run setup from there).

Can anybody shed some light on why this is happening? - and what else I can try. It's absolutely blowing my mind. I mean, ok, one computer could be bad, I get it. But then I bought another computer and it does the same thing. OK, then maybe the Win CD is bad, switch to another MD5 hashed ISO which I verify the burn (on another computer, using excellent Verbatim DataLifePlus media) and same thing. Even copy the CD to the HDD to install from there and fail. Even buy a real CD off eBay, fail. OK, maybe it was because I initially tried to go fancy with 120gb SSD's with SATA to IDE adapters - tried like 3 different types then a PCI controller, then a CF card, then a SD card...then went back to mechanical old-school drives again. Fail. Fail. Fail. Fail. Then I buy another MB, strip down EVERYTHING to the bare minimum (i.e. ONLY install a video card so I can see what's on screen), fail again. Over and over and over again. It makes zero sense to me... [/end rant]

But seriously, does any of this make sense? What options do I have? Win95 is so old it won't even recognize my processor. Windows ME strips out MS-DOS mode (I need to reboot into DOS to get proper MIDI sound for a lot of games) and driver support is flaky. Win2000 isn't built on top of DOS and neither is XP. My only caveat is I HAVE to play this on older hardware with my CRT monitor - which means DOSBox isn't an option.

[maxtherabbit]

let's say for the sake of argument that none of your hardware is "broken" strictly speaking

what is the (if any) consistent *configuration* between your various attempts?

random thought, but have you tried installing it with 64MB of RAM or less?

[Dochartaigh]

let's say for the sake of argument that none of your hardware is "broken" strictly speaking

what is the (if any) consistent *configuration* between your various attempts?

Hey Max, I know you were chiming in on Vogons too - thanks again. I thought I would try someplace different as I'm having no luck with a solution there - although they've been GREAT so far. The majority of advice seems to boil down to a hardware problem or a driver...although I've posted how much hardware I've tried... and I'm literally not even getting to the point where I can physically install a driver most of the time now anyway...

There is zero consistent anything since this last weekends attempts. I finally broke down and gave up on a couple holdout parts. The last three consistencies between nearly all builds (talking the ~2 Dell's here, didn't try the 370 socket computer nearly as much) was the 700mhz Slot 1 Pentium III processor (swapped in a 450mhz Slot 1 P3 last night); I gave up on the ESS ISA sound card so I'm running without sound right now; and last is I gave up burning CD's on my old Mac (running Windows bootcamp) with the (good to me forever with burning console games!) older style 4x burner and for the first time I used a modern USB external 10x burner (which verified the disc 100% fyi) on a Win10 computer to burn the ISO.

I had also previously NEVER used an actual physical real/bought non-burned CD before this weekend. I had been using my own burn off a physical disc I owned ~20 years ago (long since scratched/trashed), plus a slew of others off the web (versions TONS of people have said "I used that same exact one and it worked for me"). BUT this weekend I also got in a real Windows 98 CD I bought off eBay (they sent me the non-SE version but I tried it anyway), and I had actually more errors I think. Since it's bootable I believe that makes it an "OEM" version? That leaves only a SE version of a real disc to try, which is in the mail. And I don't think I've tried a Retail version which needs a floppy to boot off - I can try that as well although that seems annoying.

Oh, one other thing which has been constant (which ties in with the antivirus below): I've never NOT transferred over files via an external medium of some sort. I started off with an old 16gb USB drive but that thing was slow as heck to copy files over. So for the last ~month, even if I was using a mechanical drive as C:\ I would always hook-up a SSD with SATA to IDE adapter, on the IDE2 secondary line with the CD/DVD burner, to copy over drivers and game files since it's WAY faster. Even without those modern conveniences, the first maybe 5ish builds the drivers were on CD (before I started using USB, then SSD drive to copy those over), Also wanted to mention (if it could possibly matter), but ALL those files ALWAYS still came from a macintosh formatted hard drive (the media server for my house), so a Mac has touched all these files. Last night was the only time (when I was trying that new burner on my Win10 machine), that a Mac didn't touch any files...and the installs still had issues even then (but thought I'd still mention the Mac thing, as I know some of those hidden files Mac's put inside eash directory have given my Raspberry Pi 3 Linux builds some issues before, and some ODE's SD cards as well).

random thought, but have you tried installing it with 64MB of RAM or less?

One guy mentioned that on Vogons too - I was going to try running with only 1 stick of RAM like you just mentioned - but it'll be a single 128mb stick (lowest I have).

Next step after that is I also ordered a Windows 98 SE CD off eBay as well (original/real and non-scratched). It's a "For distribution with a new PC only. For product support, contact the manufacturer of your PC" version.

I also want to run antivirus just in case some of the drivers I've downloaded have effected the HDD's or even the BIOS or where ever else viruses can live. Can I scan these HDD's on my Windows 10 PC? I'll have to lookup boot discs for Windows 98 to run antivirus on the machine itself... that's literally the only possible other far-fetched thing I could think of... well, it did cross my mind that maybe my house is haunted and they don't like Windows 98 for some reason... because seriously, at this point that's literally a more plausible explanation as I can think of right now with everything I've tried lol

[maxtherabbit]

I know you said you tried a different drive to burn the discs, but what about the drive you are using to read it at the time of installation? (I'm disregarding the attempts you made at preemptively copying the installation files to the hard disk because I have no idea if that even should work in theory)


I've installed Windows 98 SE exactly one time in the past 20 years, so I'm not super familiar with the vagaries of it anymore. Most of my retro machines run a dual boot of XP and pure DOS, or just DOS if they are too anemic to run XP.

The one time I did install 98 was on a SCSI 8GB Hard disk hanging off an adaptec 2940UW from a Pioneer IDE DVD-RW drive and it went fine. TNT2 for video, AWE64 for audio. K6-II @ 375MHz and 64MB SDRAM. So significantly less powerful than your setup. I later copied that installation over to a 80GB mechanical IDE drive on the onboard controller and it still works.

[Dochartaigh]

I know you said you tried a different drive to burn the discs, but what about the drive you are using to read it at the time of installation?

I have like 5 drives (always get at least CD burners, if not CD/DVD burners so they're guaranteed to have no problems reading burned discs). Also a couple times I directly copied the Win98 folder form the install disc directly to the HDD on my Mac, then put the HDD back in the Dell and ran setup off that HDD – so totally bypassing any removable media at all.

Running Windows setup from the HDD directly is fine, OEM setups commonly have a separate partition with their version of the Win install CD files on it thus bypassing the optical drive as well. Bunch of the guys on Vogons do it this way (it's also faster)

[maxtherabbit]

maybe it's just time to say fuck computers and use that beautiful PC-CRT of yours with a GBS running CFW to play some consoles

[Spacemonkey]

I tried to read everything, but there's too much info, I see the OP keeps mentioning MAC, I'd say use a Windows machine for transferring files, also are you using IDE hard drives?
I've had trouble with IDE/SATA adapters on older machines, even when changing settings in the BIOS that should allow them to run fine.

Whenever I see older PCs locally I pick them up for nostalgia's sake, usually the HDDs are dead, corrupted OS, or full of junk. Rarely have I ran into many issues other than trying to find certain drivers.

[BuckoA51]

The last Windows 98 build I did was a total failure like this too. I got the system booting then it just died/black screened after a few minutes.

Swapped out RAM, GPU, all sorts.. still no dice. In the end I junked it before I moved to Ireland.

Man, screw Windows 98, I remember now why I stuck with the Amiga right up to when XP came out.

[donluca]

It's interesting because I've done a Win98SE installation a couple months ago (admittedly on very old hardware) and everything went smooth as butter.

OP if you want I can send you my Win98SE ISO and try that, unfortunately I can't really do much than this.

[BuckoA51]

A lot is down to bad luck I think. Windows 98 is quite flaky compared to more modern OS' and with the added complication of older, less reliable hardware adding an extra variable into the mix these things are to be expected.

It's not like running classic consoles is always trouble free either.

I went DOSBox and CRT Emudriver in the end which worked great for the DOS games I was interested in and, apart from one obscure problem which means I have to reboot it more often than expected, is working very well.

[Dochartaigh]

maybe it's just time to say fuck computers and use that beautiful PC-CRT of yours with a GBS running CFW to play some consoles

Dude, I'm so ready....problem is I've already dropped like $500+ on this so I REALLY want to get it friggin working...

I tried to read everything, but there's too much info, I see the OP keeps mentioning MAC, I'd say use a Windows machine for transferring files, also are you using IDE hard drives?
I've had trouble with IDE/SATA adapters on older machines, even when changing settings in the BIOS that should allow them to run fine.

You're totally right - it's WAY too much (all the issues I've had). But the last install (like 4x of them) I went totally PC - no Mac touched the files.

Also ONLY used a 40gb period-correct mechanical IDE hard drive (Western Digital).

The last Windows 98 build I did was a total failure like this too. I got the system booting then it just died/black screened after a few minutes.

Swapped out RAM, GPU, all sorts.. still no dice. In the end I junked it before I moved to Ireland.

Man, screw Windows 98, I remember now why I stuck with the Amiga right up to when XP came out.

I'm looking into moving over to Windows ME, 2000, or XP... but there's so many games I need to use Windows 98's "Reboot in MS-DOS mode" to get General MIDI to work properly... and I don't know if that's easily doable in any of those other OS's.

Windows 98 is very good at this actually (well, when it actually works, period) – you can have a shortcut to the game with all your Autoexec.bat and config.sys in that link, and windows can reboot the computer, use those .bat/sys files, let you play the game, then as soon as you exit the game it'll load Win98 back up...

[strygo]

A few years ago, I built a Windows 98SE machine using a guide from Phil's Computer Lab:

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/4-in-1 ... ng-pc.html

In addition to the Yamaha sound card he used, I also installed an MPU 401 card for use with an MT-32. Apart from wrestling with IRQs, the machine has held up well.

If you haven't checked out Phil's guides (there are a ton of them), I definitely recommend them.

[Dochartaigh]

If you haven't checked out Phil's guides (there are a ton of them), I definitely recommend them.

I've followed several of them to the "t"! And is also why I have a Voodoo2 SLI setup....and am (was) using SSD's on this old computer ...and is why I bought an ESS ES1869F ISA sound card for DOS (really great videos) ....but sadly can't do much of anything on these three PC's without operating systems lol.

[Austin]

This isn't going to help the OP at all, but I'll share my experiences with my current Windows 98 SE build, just for a little bit of perspective. Going the AMD route (Athlon XP 3000+ CPU), I started with a cheap motherboard with a SiS chipset. Got the OS installed after trying multiple versions from winworldpc.com. Various versions would BSOD partway through the installation. When I found a version that worked, I got all the drivers installed and the system was stable for all of a week. Then it just went ballistic, BSODs left and right.

I've heard SiS chipsets are not particularly good with Windows '98, so I did some searching on eBay and picked up a motherboard with a VIA chipset. Reinstalled everything and it's been solid since (about a year and a half now as of this writing--I used it just a couple weeks ago). I was never able to get my various Sound Blaster Live cards functioning 100% with it. Either they would cause BSODs or they would not function with DOS games (which is half the point of the machine). I ended up going with this Yamaha based card per the recommendation of one of Phil's videos and it's been solid. Likewise I am also using a Radeon 9550 per another one of his videos, no issues there. I've heard the OS becomes unstable when you go over 500MB of RAM, but I've been sitting at 768MB and it's been fine.

I'm not sure how compatible these Dell motherboards are. I also don't know how new they are (though if you're using a PIII, they are certainly era-appropriate). A last resort would be to get a different motherboard not used in Dell machines. Make sure you're getting the right chipset drivers especially. Intel chipsets are supposed to be good and stable. If you try an AMD setup, then from my experience only go with VIA. Build it out in the open and don't physically install it in a case until it's stable. Then pop it into something normal to make it easier to work on (all my retro builds are in modern cases, making working on them much easier). It was said earlier but I also don't recommend converters. I've had issues with my SATA to IDE converters. Best to go straight IDE for everything to avoid having extra points of failure.

Anyway, best of luck with it. My '98 machine was a nightmare at first. In the end I'd say it was worth it--I love being able to run games like Quake III, Return to Castle Wolfenstein or Max Payne at 1280x1024, highest settings, at the maximum FPS my CRT can handle. And having some DOS functionality is a nice bonus too (it's inconsistent, but a lot of the games I want to play work fine). I do have a separate Windows '95 machine (Pentium 200, and was much easier to get set up overall) that I think I am going to reformat and turn into a straight DOS machine for everything else that doesn't work on my '98 machine.

[Dochartaigh]

I'm not sure how compatible these Dell motherboards are. I also don't know how new they are (though if you're using a PIII, they are certainly era-appropriate).

These Dell MB's are based off the 440bx chipset - the chipset which is so popular, and so (I'm laughing now reliable, that they say even virtual machines meant to run Windows 98 and such are based off this architecture. No chipset drivers needed it's so popular Win98 came pre-loaded with them.

Anyway, best of luck with it. My '98 machine was a nightmare at first. In the end I'd say it was worth it--I love being able to run games like Quake III, Return to Castle Wolfenstein or Max Payne at 1280x1024, highest settings, at the maximum FPS my CRT can handle. And having some DOS functionality is a nice bonus too (it's inconsistent, but a lot of the games I want to play work fine). I do have a separate Windows '95 machine (Pentium 200, and was much easier to get set up overall) that I think I am going to reformat and turn into a straight DOS machine for everything else that doesn't work on my '98 machine.

Thanks – I'm still going to try more...just don't know what's left to try TBH.

On the GeForce 4 ti 4600 I was literally getting (want to say 84? FPS) at I think 1600x1200 with this setup on Quake III when it was up and running - very impressive for a mere P3 (with WAY more leeway on the 140hz 2070SB CRT monitor). Absolutely puts to shame the dual Voodoo2 SLI setup (which I still don't know what use that has when a card like 18 months latter absolutely destroys it).

I'm thinking of getting a Super Socket 7 which I can downclock for earlier DOS games and still play the majority of the Windows games I want to play (up to around 2000 or so) when it's running full-speed. Or I might say screw it and just get a 486DX2 66mhz DOS machine or something - DOS always works for me just fine lol.

[Austin]

Windows '98 might have those chipset drivers included, but they are likely to be older. Check Phil's site (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/intel- ... ivers.html) for updated ones. Same goes for everything else--make sure you're using the most updated drivers.

Thinking of one of your screenshots, I'd also personally ditch the Audigy until you get things stable. Get an older card that's known to be more reliable, say, an AWE64, or even an AWE32, just to get you going (or, one of those Yamaha cards I linked to in my last post, they should still be cheap). My SB Live was a bitch to get working and I couldn't get it going 100%. It's a common issue with Windows '98 as some Google searches will show. I can't imagine the Audigy would be any better in that regard.

[BenoitRen]

Personally, I recommend Windows 95 OSR2. Most stable Windows 9x you can get. If you want to use it on something faster than 350 Mhz, though, you need to apply a patch.

Anyway, I also recommend going for an older SoundBlaster. I'd also get a Matrox video card from the era.

[bigbadboaz]

Yeah, I'm curious why the choice of 98SE - was that just because it was the "last" version of the era? I tentatively ('cause I'm really no expert here) second Benoit's suggestion. As I remember living through the time, upgrading from 95 to any flavor of 98 never seemed particularly urgent. I went straight from 95 to XP, eventually. Any reason 95 wouldn't work for you?

[Dochartaigh]

Windows '98 might have those chipset drivers included, but they are likely to be older. Check Phil's site (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/intel- ... ivers.html) for updated ones. Same goes for everything else--make sure you're using the most updated drivers.

I have the most recent everything, and in some cases went with older versions when multiple people with similar setups say to use a certain version of a driver that's the one I'm using (like the ideal GeForce drivers for max reliability and compatibility are 45.23 for my GeForce 4 ti 4600 - also tried newer and older versions though). I started out with different ones for pretty much everything, and have switched them out one by one just in case (but I'm currently down to ONLY a video card - no other cards installed).

Thinking of one of your screenshots, I'd also personally ditch the Audigy until you get things stable. Get an older card that's known to be more reliable, say, an AWE64, or even an AWE32, just to get you going (or, one of those Yamaha cards I linked to in my last post, they should still be cheap). My SB Live was a bitch to get working and I couldn't get it going 100%. It's a common issue with Windows '98 as some Google searches will show. I can't imagine the Audigy would be any better in that regard.

Audigy has been out for a while now. Was then using a super common and super DOS-compatible ESS ES1868/1869F ISA sound card. Proper SB 2.0 support, OPL3, and wavetable header for Dreamblaster X2 for General Midi. Again, that card is out right now (and I still have issues).

Personally, I recommend Windows 95 OSR2. Most stable Windows 9x you can get. If you want to use it on something faster than 350 Mhz, though, you need to apply a patch.

Can you tell me how this would work please? With that patch (which works for Slot 1 Pentium III's I assume - my slowest is 450mhz). Even Windows 98 non-SE (i.e. original) version won't recognize my Pentium III as a P3 - thinks it's a P2 (and that's when I'm using the slowest 450mhz Slot 1 instead of the 700 I was using), so I've stayed away from something even older like Win95.

Would my Windows 98 drivers (especially for things that possibly never had Windows 95 drivers) still work? Would my Windows games put out after 1998 still work on Win95? (I'm clueless about this!)

Yeah, I'm curious why the choice of 98SE - was that just because it was the "last" version of the era? I tentatively ('cause I'm really no expert here) second Benoit's suggestion. As I remember living through the time, upgrading from 95 to any flavor of 98 never seemed particularly urgent. I went straight from 95 to XP, eventually. Any reason 95 wouldn't work for you?

I need to be able to play games put out for Windows 98, as well as older games which I need to boot the computer into pure DOS mode. I do not know how that works. Windows 95 won't work on faster processors hey mentioned above as well (didn't know there's a patch...but don't know if that still gives other issues...which I def don't need!), and thought there might be RAM limitations too but I could be wrong. Also to my other points above I don't know the answer to.

After Win98 there's only ME which if you remember was an absolute nightmare for pretty much everybody who tried it. Windows 2000/NT isn't based on DOS – after that XP isn't based on DOS either, so there's really no other choice except for Windows 98 (which I chose the SE version of it because more updates and fixes supposedly) for the kind of games I want to play, but I also tried non-SE version which also gives me errors.





Anyway, my official Windows 98 SE CD should be arriving today. If you remember I've not used an official disk of SE, so just in case... (I've tried EVERYTHING else...so why not).

Some people also mentioned RAM, and although I just ordered 3x new matching 128mb/each sticks (which had problems with an install with those too), in case the problem is somehow too much RAM I ordered a 64mb stick of RAM as well which I'll be using.

I've only used one mechanical drive (and like 2 SSD's, SD, CF, etc), a 40gb, so I'll try the 120gb WD 7200rpm drive I got last week.

Beyond that, in case the TNT2 was also broke (after trying the GeForce 4 beforehand), I'll try yet another TNT2. I have a "Diamond Viper V550ATX ATX TNTA" which I don't even know what it is...think a TNT (1st version), I can try as well...but I still think I'm grasping at straws here and the real problem has alluded me... (which I have no clue what that could be...I just think Microsoft is garbage as I've really ruled out any possible hardware problem in my eyes...all that's left is Win98 simply being horrible... no other logical conclusion).

[maxtherabbit]

Having used both 95 gold, b and c as well as 98 and 98SE while they were commercially relevant, I can confidently say that 98SE was the best of the bunch.

[NJRoadfan]

Some of those errors are bizarre, other are well..... Windows 9x in its native state.

I can't see anything wrong with the hardware you are using. 440BX is Windows 98SE's comfort zone and should work out of the box (I beta tested 98SE on a 440BX machine back in the day). The nVidia TNT2 would have been the stock period video card with that machine, so no problems there. That machine might have had the option of a SB Live! Value card too.

Memory should be fine at 384MB as I ran 98SE with it for years. I would test and make sure your DIMMs are good though as machine instabilities are a sign of bad/marginal RAM. Older versions of memtest86 would do the trick. Another test is to try installing Windows 2000/XP. NT based OSes tend to not tolerate bad memory at all and will crash and burn fairly quickly.

As for actual DIMMs, stick with 8(?) chip PC100 or 133 DIMMs. The newer denser PC133 sticks have problems on 440BX boards, although its usually limited to only seeing half of the DIMM's capacity. BX boards usually had 3 or 4 slots and officially support 128MB DIMMs. Double sided 256MB DIMMs will work, but they are usually of the newer denser memory chips.

Regarding hard drives, avoid anything over 128GB (the LBA 28bit limit) as Windows 9x doesn't support it at all, or keep partitions below that limit if you can't find a small drive. 40GB should be fine if the BIOS in the machine sees the capacity without a problem (some have bugs that limit to 32GB). Speaking of BIOS, are you connecting the drives to a newer machine to transfer data? Be mindful of the CHS translation method used by the older machine, it should be LBA mode, not LARGE or NORMAL. The Dell BIOS should be well behaved in this respect, but you never know. Accessing a drive with machines configured to differing CHS translations is a sure way to trash the data on the drive.

[BenoitRen]

Can you tell me how this would work please? With that patch (which works for Slot 1 Pentium III's I assume - my slowest is 450mhz).

I recall having to copy the installation files to the hard disk, and replacing a file with one from the patch. All it does is fix a timing problem that is the root cause of the incompatibility.

Even Windows 98 non-SE (i.e. original) version won't recognize my Pentium III as a P3

To be honest, that's not necessarily a problem. My Windows 95 OSR2 thinks my Pentium II is a Pentium Pro, and that has never been an issue. It still runs today, more than 20 years after I bought it.

Would my Windows 98 drivers (especially for things that possibly never had Windows 95 drivers) still work?

No, that's out of the question.

Would my Windows games put out after 1998 still work on Win95? (I'm clueless about this!)

That depends on the game, as there was a transition period. You'll have to check the system requirements for them. One thing I can tell you, though, is that any games requiring DirectX 8.1 or newer is definitely not going to work on Windows 95. DirectX 8.0a was the last DirectX version for Windows 95.

Regarding hard drives, avoid anything over 128GB (the LBA 28bit limit) as Windows 9x doesn't support it at all, or keep partitions below that limit if you can't find a small drive.

There's an unofficial patch that breaks that limit, which is a drive limit, and not a partition limit. Hence, making partitions smaller than 128 GB won't help.

[Dochartaigh]

Memory should be fine at 384MB as I ran 98SE with it for years. I would test and make sure your DIMMs are good though as machine instabilities are a sign of bad/marginal RAM. Older versions of memtest86 would do the trick. Another test is to try installing Windows 2000/XP. NT based OSes tend to not tolerate bad memory at all and will crash and burn fairly quickly.

As for actual DIMMs, stick with 8(?) chip PC100 or 133 DIMMs. The newer denser PC133 sticks have problems on 440BX boards, although its usually limited to only seeing half of the DIMM's capacity. BX boards usually had 3 or 4 slots and officially support 128MB DIMMs. Double sided 256MB DIMMs will work, but they are usually of the newer denser memory chips.

I was originally using 256mb total, and they were mismatched brands. 1x stick of 128mb with 4x RAM modules on it. The other was also 128mb but has 16x modules on it. I then switched last weekend to 3x 128mb sticks I bought off eBay (matched) and those each have 8x modules on one side only (even using those new ones I still had multiple issues). Last night I was trying the single 64mb stick with 8x modules and it's going a little better than normal but have sound issues right now...

Regarding hard drives, avoid anything over 128GB (the LBA 28bit limit) as Windows 9x doesn't support it at all, or keep partitions below that limit if you can't find a small drive. 40GB should be fine if the BIOS in the machine sees the capacity without a problem (some have bugs that limit to 32GB). Speaking of BIOS, are you connecting the drives to a newer machine to transfer data? Be mindful of the CHS translation method used by the older machine, it should be LBA mode, not LARGE or NORMAL. The Dell BIOS should be well behaved in this respect, but you never know. Accessing a drive with machines configured to differing CHS translations is a sure way to trash the data on the drive.

Never went over 120gb, and they're always recognized by the BIOS as the correct size (except when using FDisk, but still fine after formatting). Right now I'm using a Windows 10 machine to transfer files - formatted an old 16gb USB stick to FAT32 and have been transferring over ONLY on the Windows 10 machine and NOT my Mac. I don't know what transfer method the Win10 machine uses - I'm just dragging files over normally (which seem to come over to the Dell perfectly fine from what I can tell).

For the larger stuff (that USB 1.0 takes like 20 minutes for a single ISO to copy over), I'm then hooking up one of those 120gb SSD's with SATA to IDE adapter as the D:\ drive. Those games were originally copied over to that SSD from a Mac. I made sure to delete any dot-underscore "._" hidden files which Mac's put on some folders and I know can cause some issues on certain rare devices (like my XRGB-mini doesn't like them, think something else like a RP3 might have as well).

[maxtherabbit]

Have you at any point booted from a memtest86+ disc and let it run overnight? Memory issues would explain literally all of this

[Dochartaigh]

Have you at any point booted from a memtest86+ disc and let it run overnight? Memory issues would explain literally all of this

I would have to research that and see what version would work on Windows 98 (if it's Linux based I've had problems booting so-called P3 compatible ISO's for things like partition management...like Gparted and such won't boot). I take this takes like 4+ hours or something?

....and if this was the case that would be a LOT of bad RAM. Like 4x DIFFERENT sets right now! Not saying it couldn't happen - just be super weird.

[NJRoadfan]

memtest86(+) is a bootable floppy or CD memory test program. No operating system needed. The test continuously runs until the machine is rebooted or powered off and keeps a running log of how many error-free passes are completed. The time for one pass to complete varies by configuration and the amount of memory in the machine. If you run the test overnight, pull out the memtest86 boot media (not needed after the test loads). That way if the machine reboots for some reason in the middle of the night, it doesn't re-run the test throwing off your results.

I would take pictures of the SDRAM DIMMS and post them. Generally newer/denser DRAM ICs are going to have problems working with the older memory controller in 440BX systems. Those 4 chip SDRAM sticks generally were made for Athlon/Pentium 4 era chip sets (2000-02).

[maxtherabbit]

Have you at any point booted from a memtest86+ disc and let it run overnight? Memory issues would explain literally all of this

I would have to research that and see what version would work on Windows 98 (if it's Linux based I've had problems booting so-called P3 compatible ISO's for things like partition management...like Gparted and such won't boot). I take this takes like 4+ hours or something?

....and if this was the case that would be a LOT of bad RAM. Like 4x DIFFERENT sets right now! Not saying it couldn't happen - just be super weird.

I'm not suggesting any of the ram sticks are bad per se, but that they maybe don't work with your boards

[Dochartaigh]

I would take pictures of the SDRAM DIMMS and post them. Generally newer/denser DRAM ICs are going to have problems working with the older memory controller in 440BX systems. Those 4 chip SDRAM sticks generally were made for Athlon/Pentium 4 era chip sets (2000-02).

Here's all of them, both sides. In order:

2x 128mb/each, mismatched from 1st Dell
2x 128mb/each, mismatched from 2nd Dell
3x 128mb/each, matched (used last week in Dell #2)
1x 64mb, been using this weekend and seems decent (but I tried like several different things I never did before this weekend)

Should be full-res if you click on the image and zoom in:

https://imgur.com/ojS1vcv

https://imgur.com/YRc3S4M

[NJRoadfan]

There is nothing suspect with that RAM. Chip densities are low enough (64 or 128Mbit chips) that they should work on a 440BX system without a problem. I would still run a memory test to see if its OK though.

[Austin]

Coincidentally, Phil just posted a video about a very similar system to yours. 1GHZ Pentium III, same chipset, etc. Link: https://youtu.be/Z-YptA_ttUA. No issues.

Don't have time to scroll through the thread again so I'm not sure how many different motherboard and CPU combos you have tried, but it might not hurt to invest in another one. That's basically what I did when I had problems with my '98 build (but I ended up going AMD, so it was significantly cheaper. This Intel stuff is much pricier).