Sony KV-32FV310 Voltage Regulator making me sad?

[HDgaming42]

Ran out of characters for a proper thread title.

Just finished a 6hr round-trip drive to pick up a KV-32FV310 in pretty good shape. Got it home and did a very quiick and rudimentary calibration. I'm somewhat...disappointed?

For comparison I started with a PVM-2530 (nice, but could be sharper), then a PVM-14l5 (sharp but too small), then a 20M4U (good size and very sharp, but feels...lifeless?). I was hoping this 310 would be a good middle ground.

It's sharp enough, and certainly large enough, but I'm finding the picture less enjoyable than my 2530. I'm trying to put my finger on why this might be. I think I'm attracted to the 2530's curved screen (can't really do anything about that for the 310) and the bloom. The 310 has a voltage regulator that prevents bloom, and I feel this ends up with a picture that is more reminicent of emulation on an LCD than the real thing on a CRT.

Am I alone in feeling this way? I had no idea that part of the appeal of CRTs to me is the inherient bloom. I'm assuming the 2530 has no such circuitry, or maybe I'm way off base as to why I prefer the 2530 to everything else...

• Is there a way within the service menu to disable, or tone down the voltage regulator? I have the service manual but nothing is jumping out at me.
  
  I also hear that disabling velocity scan modulation can help with artificially boosted sharpness, but can't locate an on/off for that either.

Can someone recommend me some settings/adjustments?

[Taiyaki]

The short answer is "no", you are not alone in feeling that way.

The high voltage regulator cannot be disabled, can it be done manually by altering the chassis? I don't know, but sounds like more trouble than it's worth. If you want the same picture quality without the regulator, try and find an FV300. It will feel much more natural looking (in terms of what one expects from crt's) thanks to the blooming. Any other older FV set or FS sets are really great too imo.

The velocity modulation should be in the settings and should display as on or off. Of course it's better to have it off if it's for gaming.

IMO the FV310 is a unique consumer crt and in some ways could be viewed as a low tvl pro monitor in a consumer chassis with consumer service menu and controls. It's an amazing tv. The colors are not going to get as perfect as studio grade, although they will be outstanding for consumer grade. Yes you get stuck with the lack of blooming though, but for people who love pro monitors and want to dip their toes into consumer grade then the FV310 is arguably a great compromise.

Yes the screen is going to be flat both horizontally and vertically, where as your pvm's are probably curved horizontally and only flat vertically.

Screens that are flat both ways usually have worse geometry out of the box in the corners, and generally need internal fixing to be made right. Convergence is probably not on the same level as the pvm either, but again if you work on the inside you might be able to make it pretty close to perfect, other than in the extreme corners, where one usually has to compromise as it's very tough to get simultaneously good geometry and convergence.

I understand not liking the lcd emulated scanlines look too. I long stepped away from pro monitors for that very reason. I would still prefer the FV310 over pro monitors personally (especially high tvl ones that really look un-crt like to me. However given the choice, I still would prefer another consumer crt, as I prefer seeing phosphor blooming and all the side effects that accompany it. The high voltage regulator just doesn't provide an ideal picture to me.

[MKL]

FYI the 2530 has scan velocity modulation too.

[Josh128]

Disappointed because the picture is too perfect? I swear, the quest for the perfect display or picture quality for retro systems is akin to a psychological disorder!
Its like obsessing over trying to find the holy grail, searching for the sasquatch, or racing for that pot of gold the end of the rainbow!!!

[Taiyaki]

Disappointed because the picture is too perfect? I swear, the quest for the perfect display or picture quality for retro systems is akin to a psychological disorder!
Its like obsessing over trying to find the holy grail, searching for the sasquatch, or racing for that pot of gold the end of the rainbow!!!

Problem with that rational is that in that case OLED's are technically more perfect than any CRT.

I don't think perfection is the goal but more often for many users what they seek is either 1. recreation of original picture conditions as remembered back in the day (typical consumer tubes (shadow mask/aperture)). 2. recreation of theoretical developer conditions (pro monitors). 3. recreation of original picture as was displayed back in the day, in best conditions possible (usually top of the line non hd consumer tubes).

There can be variations of course, but I doubt many users of CRT's are actually trying to get perfection with CRT's. If anyone is, they're on a wild goose chase.

[maxtherabbit]

I'm sure you will have NO problem finding a lucky bastard who will trade you a set with bloom for your FV310

[HDgaming42]

The velocity modulation should be in the settings and should display as on or off. Of course it's better to have it off if it's for gaming.

Thanks for this--overlooked it as it was called "ClearEdge" but was already disabled.

Yes the screen is going to be flat both horizontally and vertically, where as your pvm's are probably curved horizontally and only flat vertically.

Indeed. I have an ikegami that is curved in both directions and I just can't get used to it!

I still would prefer another consumer crt, as I prefer seeing phosphor blooming and all the side effects that accompany it. The high voltage regulator just doesn't provide an ideal picture to me.

Yes, I'm now on the hunt for a FV300. Found one an hours drive away but I was 10 min too late as it's spoken for.

FYI the 2530 has scan velocity modulation too.

Is this engaged on all inputs? I certainly see it's handywork on the composite input, but I don't get the impression it's active on the "computer"/RGB input. Or if it is I don't find it objectionable.

Disappointed because the picture is too perfect? I swear, the quest for the perfect display or picture quality for retro systems is akin to a psychological disorder!
Its like obsessing over trying to find the holy grail, searching for the sasquatch, or racing for that pot of gold the end of the rainbow!!!

You're not necessarily wrong. It's very likely I qualify for the clinical definition of OCD. I've always been jacked up about getting the best video quality available. I bought a LaserDisc player with my lawn-cutting money when I was 14. Had S-video cables for my consoles the minute they were available. Learned how to calibrate TVs via their service menus. Now I'm into LUTs. It just never ends...

I don't think perfection is the goal but more often for many users what they seek is either 1. recreation of original picture conditions as remembered back in the day (typical consumer tubes (shadow mask/aperture)). 2. recreation of theoretical developer conditions (pro monitors). 3. recreation of original picture as was displayed back in the day, in best conditions possible (usually top of the line non hd consumer tubes).

There can be variations of course, but I doubt many users of CRT's are actually trying to get perfection with CRT's. If anyone is, they're on a wild goose chase.

I'd agree with this. I've gone through all 3 phases/goals and after seeing them all with my own eyes, I'm back to a hybrid of #1/#3. I want it to look how I remember it, but as sharp as possible--with phosphor glow and bloom. It's just a shame I snagged a 310 as opposed to a 300. Though there's really no way of knowing until you see them with your own eyes.

[Taiyaki]

Yes, I'm now on the hunt for a FV300. Found one an hours drive away but I was 10 min too late as it's spoken for.

If you're looking for a large size tv at 27 inch and up, you'll probably come across one again. Generally with consumer crt's a lot of people avoid larger sizes, so while the FV310 is definitely harder to find in 27 inch (the smallest available), the FV300 exists in mid range sizes at 20 and 24 inches, so the 27 might be more readily available.

I'd agree with this. I've gone through all 3 phases/goals and after seeing them all with my own eyes, I'm back to a hybrid of #1/#3. I want it to look how I remember it, but as sharp as possible--with phosphor glow and bloom. It's just a shame I snagged a 310 as opposed to a 300. Though there's really no way of knowing until you see them with your own eyes.

I agree. I also had to go through many phases, trying out many crt's and many setups with different connections, and yes there's some ocd'ness involved. I think many people here understand this. I think it's nice that there are options for everyone out there. It's just about finding what works best for you.

I should probably mention that although the FV300 is outstanding set, the FS100 and FS120 are pretty great tv's too, so are the older FV models, so there's a lot of choice, assuming you've settled on flat aperture grille tubes as your preference. The only reason to absolutely have to get an FV300 is if your ocd bones are twitching for the best you can get in non high pitch consumer Trinitron sets. I think it's worth the hunt if you have the patience, but for many users the other sets are just as satisfying, and you certainly can't go wrong with them imo.

[FinalBaton]

The 2530 is the best Trinitron I've ever seen. "Sharpness" be damned, be happy with what you got. It checks all the right boxes for me. It has a great texture, whereas some other Trinitrons can be more "plain" looking. And it's lesser "sharpness" (I put that between quotes because to me it's plenty sharp enough for these old games) is part of what gives it that beautiful grain.

Keep in mind that it's "black Trinitron tube" has a dark tinted tube. probably accounts for it's rich dark colours and creamy whites (and also it's scanlines have the red, green and blue rows not perfectly aligned vertically, and purposedly offset a bit from each other, and I think it's particular to that tube. every "black Trinitron tube" I've seen has the scanlines arranged like that and no other Trini I've ever seen like that. Don't wanna spread that like gospel, could stand to be verified, but that's how I see it).

So yeah, be happy with the 2530. And don't wish for it to have more "sharpness", It's slight fuzzyness is what makes it look so pleasing to old games colours and so flattering to their colour shading work.

[Josh128]

... (and also it's scanlines have the red, green and blue rows not perfectly aligned vertically, and purposedly offset a bit from each other, and I think it's particular to that tube. every "black Trinitron tube" I've seen has the scanlines arranged like that and no other Trini I've ever seen like that. Don't wanna spread that like gospel, could stand to be verified, but that's how I see it).

Any way you can post a closeup of the scanlines you are talking about? Are you saying it looks more like a shadow mask than an aperture grille?

[tjstogy]

I went from a PVM 20L5 to a KV27FV310. The picture isn't as perfect, but it doesn't need to be. Consumer tv's that we all grew up playing on were imperfect. I simply saw no need for me to be playing Super Nintendo games on a PVM. It didn't change my life, it looked too perfect, and it was too small. I sold it, and found the fv310, which I'm happier with. It's for playing frickin' Nintendo games. My advice is: just get a decent consumer grade tv, preferably with component inputs, properly displays 240p, and be happy with it. The road to "perfection" is a long and windy one, and will be never ending, because: your idea of a perfect TV for playing retro games is different than the next guy. It's simply personal preference, with ultimately no right or wrong answer. It's like asking audio enthusiasts the "BEST" speakers, amplifier, headphones, turntable.... you will get a million different answers. Just find something that looks decent and play the damn games, that's really the point after all.

[FinalBaton]

Any FV or FS Trinitron looks great, no doubt.

I personally prefer the non-flat Trini, so I'm more likely to hunt down an '80s or '90s set

[Taiyaki]

I went from a PVM 20L5 to a KV27FV310. The picture isn't as perfect, but it doesn't need to be. Consumer tv's that we all grew up playing on were imperfect. I simply saw no need for me to be playing Super Nintendo games on a PVM. It didn't change my life, it looked too perfect, and it was too small. I sold it, and found the fv310, which I'm happier with. It's for playing frickin' Nintendo games. My advice is: just get a decent consumer grade tv, preferably with component inputs, properly displays 240p, and be happy with it. The road to "perfection" is a long and windy one, and will be never ending, because: your idea of a perfect TV for playing retro games is different than the next guy. It's simply personal preference, with ultimately no right or wrong answer. It's like asking audio enthusiasts the "BEST" speakers, amplifier, headphones, turntable.... you will get a million different answers. Just find something that looks decent and play the damn games, that's really the point after all.

I completely agree. No tv is perfect as they all have their quirks. Preference comes into play big time and there are a lot of reference models for different groups depending on what you favor.

The internet and articles/blog posts/Youtube videos people make tend to send gamers towards specific models and that shoots the prices up and/or makes them harder to acquire, but worse than that, sets false expectations. The BVM20G/F/E1U, popular model PVM's (including the large 2530), but also the FV310 as a representative for the consumer range. The FV300 is also sought after but a bit less so because there are less articles about it, which is probably a good thing.

With time people's preferences might also settle in more. Like Finalbaton above, who now seems to gravitate towards the 80/90's horizontally curved sets.

[Listai]

I went from a Sony KVAR25M31 which is probably the equivalent of the FV300 (looks identical to an FV310 without the HVR and advanced menu features) to a PVM20L2.

I love the look of 600TVL PVMs because they're basically a perfected version of the consumer TV experience - higher TVL count, better colours, more menu features, no blooming.

[HDgaming42]

Any FV or FS Trinitron looks great, no doubt.

I personally prefer the non-flat Trini, so I'm more likely to hunt down an '80s or '90s set

Since I'm trolling the local market for sets, what are some of the better curved trinitron monitors to look out for? I'm really not digging the flat design of the FV310. I don't care how highly recommended it is--the internet can't make me like it.

Is there a model range that's viewed as the pinacle of the curved sets for 240p?

[Taiyaki]

Any FV or FS Trinitron looks great, no doubt.

I personally prefer the non-flat Trini, so I'm more likely to hunt down an '80s or '90s set

Since I'm trolling the local market for sets, what are some of the better curved trinitron monitors to look out for? I'm really not digging the flat design of the FV310. I don't care how highly recommended it is--the internet can't make me like it.

Is there a model range that's viewed as the pinacle of the curved sets for 240p?

That's a great question. It's not something a lot of gamers discuss. There are fewer of them around and the internet wasn't as developed yet, so there's less documentation available on them. Pretty much anything after 2000 in Sony sets are going to be the flat variety, so assuming you're still after aperture grille sets, then you'd be looking for sets made at the latest around the late 90's. The older the set you find, the more I recommend valuing condition. You'll be dealing with older hardware after all.

[HDgaming42]

Any FV or FS Trinitron looks great, no doubt.

I personally prefer the non-flat Trini, so I'm more likely to hunt down an '80s or '90s set

Since I'm trolling the local market for sets, what are some of the better curved trinitron monitors to look out for? I'm really not digging the flat design of the FV310. I don't care how highly recommended it is--the internet can't make me like it.

Is there a model range that's viewed as the pinacle of the curved sets for 240p?

That's a great question. It's not something a lot of gamers discuss. There are fewer of them around and the internet wasn't as developed yet, so there's less documentation available on them. Pretty much anything after 2000 in Sony sets are going to be the flat variety, so assuming you're still after aperture grille sets, then you'd be looking for sets made at the latest around the late 90's. The older the set you find, the more I recommend valuing condition. You'll be dealing with older hardware after all.

Seems it's come up in the monstrous thread about old display technology
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256&start=5340

Component
32XBR48
34XBR48C (this one is a 220v set)
35XBR48
35XBR88
37XBR48M

RGB capable
KV-25DXR
KV-25DXBR

Mabye FinalBaton got further in their research and can share the results. I should really make the time to read that whole thread...

[FinalBaton]

Yes was just gonna mention those sets you just quoted from my older post


So the thing with NA pre-flat Trinitrons is : they don't have anything better than S-video... for the most part.

If you're okay with S-video, then you could hunt an early-to-mid '90s one, like the KV-27TS30 (same tube as PVM-2530 and a bunch of the same picture enhancement circuitry), or a mid-to-late '90s one like the KV-27S42 or KV-27V42 or maybe some other model from the same era (the S42, a lot of peaople seem very fond of it an RGB mod it or even use in arcade cabs. There's a couple pics on here in the RGB mod thread).

For component there's the one in my post you quoted. I've never seen one in person, only a couple pics online. from those pics the PQ seems very nice. Those use the same tube as the PVM-2950. But the tube isn't everything, of course.

And for RGB, again, there are the ones in my post. I have the KV-25XBR and I love it every bit as much as my PVM-2950.


-------------------

On another note, regarding your OP : I had a FV300 and the Velocity Modulation option was there in the regular menu. don't know if th 310 is the same.

[Taiyaki]

That's right. I haven't used a 90's Trinitron in so long I forgot that other than the top of the line xbr sets they didn't have component (except in Europe where they had scart instead of S-video). Just to temper HDgaming42's expectations, it's also worth mentioning those tubes are likely not going to have the same brightness intensity or vivid colors from the 2000 era tubes, not because of wear, but just because of natural progress in the technology that occurred over time. The picture on older sets has a lot of charm, especially if one has nostalgia for them. It's a different experience.

[HDgaming42]

KV-27TS30 (same tube as PVM-2530)
KV-27S42
KV-27V42
KV-27S42

For component there's the one in my post you quoted. Those use the same tube as the PVM-2950. But the tube isn't everything, of course.

Sorry, which one is the same as the 2950?

On another note, regarding your OP : I had a FV300 and the Velocity Modulation option was there in the regular menu. don't know if th 310 is the same.

It is! Initially overlooked it as it's called Clear Edge™ VM.

Just to temper HDgaming42's expectations, it's also worth mentioning those tubes are likely not going to have the same brightness intensity or vivid colors from the 2000 era tubes-

If the 2530 is anything to go by I think I'll be OK as it's currently my favourite. But I won't know for sure until I've seen it myself. Always good to go in with realistic expectations.

To that end, can anyone identify this 30" model? The guy says there's no model number anywhere to be found (put 3 pics in a spoiler tag below):

Spoiler

[FinalBaton]

Sorry, which one is the same as the 2950?

Those ones :

32XBR48
34XBR48C (this one is a 220v set)
35XBR48
35XBR88
37XBR48M


As for your pic, it looks like a KV-27TS30. so 27" viewable (unless there's a bigger variant of the TS30, but I think it tops at 27")

Since you have a 2530 already, I wouldn't go after it. Yes you gain 2" screen size, but that's not much. And you get a worse connection and a bit lesser picture overall.
(but if you didn't have a 2530, I'd say 'sure, go check it out!')

[Dochartaigh]

KV-27TS30 (same tube as PVM-2530)

Per the service manuals the KV-27TS30 doesn't have the same tube as the PVM-2530. They may be exchangeable (I can't comment on that), but they're not the same tube:

KV-27TS30 uses 8-737-753-05, A68JMT50X
PVM-2530 uses 8-736-652-05, A64JKJ10X

The consumer set(s) I know of that use the same tube as the 2530 is the KV-25XBR and DXR.

For component there's the one in my post you quoted. I've never seen one in person, only a couple pics online. from those pics the PQ seems very nice. Those use the same tube as the PVM-2950. But the tube isn't everything, of course.

Sorry, which one is the same as the 2950?

Those ones :

32XBR48
34XBR48C (this one is a 220v set)
35XBR48
35XBR88
37XBR48M

And sorry again (don't meant to be picking on you but I own the PVM-2530 and KV-25DXR so I know what tube those use and have been looking for an extra tube just in case), but the above isn't correct either. Unless I'm missing something (and again, I don't know if certain tubes can be swapped out but they're definitely not the same Sony Part # and Sony Tube # – thus most likely not the same quality tube), but these are what those use:

KV-32XBR48 uses 8-733-745-05, M80JYV51X
PVM-2950 uses 8-733-845-05, M68KUZ10X

[FinalBaton]

Will you go on Reddit correct other people then? I've seen it mentionned there. I'll try find the threads. thanks

[Dochartaigh]

Will you go on Reddit correct other people then? I've seen it mentionned there. I'll try find the threads. thanks

No. But I will correct whenever I see it (and granted I have time at that moment to look through my service manuals, which I happened to have a bit of time this morning).

[FinalBaton]

they may be interchangeable models of equivalent specs tho.

they do have the same name in the user manual (not parts number, but model name)


It wouldn't be unheard of that some consumer sets use leftover tubes from lower tier PVMs. And it's not like the tube is the sole aspect of the PVMs great picture, either. And you've acknowledged so yourself in the exchange 2 months ago about 2530s and such

[HDgaming42]

I'm learning that for the 8-bit era I think I prefer the look of shadow masks, as I never had a trinitron as a kid. I recently acquired a KV-13FS100 and was suprised that, to me, it looks more like a shadow mask than aperature grill from a playing distance.



though if you get really close you can tell this isn't the case. What am I seeing here? The difference between TVL? I'm going to have to start hunting some JVC D Series...



*neither screen is calibrated, and the FS100 is too hot-I know.

[maxtherabbit]

What am I seeing here? The difference between TVL? I'm going to have to start hunting some JVC D Series...

yes

[HDgaming42]

Is there a known "sweet spot" for TVL for 8-bit games? It seems some of the later D Series actually have a lower TVL than the earlier models?

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... levisions/

for example it appears the 201 series 27" was around 525 TVL, while later models were 450/480.

[maxtherabbit]

Is there a known "sweet spot" for TVL for 8-bit games? It seems some of the later D Series actually have a lower TVL than the earlier models?

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... levisions/

for example it appears the 201 series 27" was around 525 TVL, while later models were 450/480.

it's personal preference

I prefer the highest TVL I can get, others disagree

[HDgaming42]

Is there a known "sweet spot" for TVL for 8-bit games? It seems some of the later D Series actually have a lower TVL than the earlier models?

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... levisions/

for example it appears the 201 series 27" was around 525 TVL, while later models were 450/480.

it's personal preference

I prefer the highest TVL I can get, others disagree

Oddly enough I'm right there with you for 16-bit and up (and all my 16-bit gaming was done as a child on the same family shadow mask TV), but for 8-bit I prefer lower TVL. Preferences aren't necessarily logical, and really vary from person to person.

Of course my OCD dictates that I now need different TVs for different sources. Wife's CRT-tolerance is already nearing critical levels. Not sure she'll be on board for two 32" sets (which seem to be the only size ever available locally).