shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Fri May 29, 2020 1:06 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 585 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
HDMI input would be great for Xbox 360 games. 2D shmups look really good with the OSSC's scanline effects.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:58 am 



Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 33
But there is a HDMI input, it's called 'AV4' in the original post, right?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:50 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
shroom2k wrote:
But there is a HDMI input, it's called 'AV4' in the original post, right?

This is correct.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:43 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Konsolkongen wrote:
It says in the first post that the GPIO connector of the OSSC Pro could be used to add additional composite and s-video ports.

Most of us who care enough about video quality to buy something like this will already be using RGB or better on all of our devices. I don't see the need to include support for such lossy formats. Better to make this an optional extra for those who need it, instead of everyone paying for something most will never use.

It's impossible to get anything beyond S-Video on some older systems like the Commodore 64. S-Video is the best it can get.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: Denmark
A component mod is in the works.

https://www.retrorgb.com/component-vide ... re-64.html


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:28 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
Steddyman wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
It says in the first post that the GPIO connector of the OSSC Pro could be used to add additional composite and s-video ports.

Most of us who care enough about video quality to buy something like this will already be using RGB or better on all of our devices. I don't see the need to include support for such lossy formats. Better to make this an optional extra for those who need it, instead of everyone paying for something most will never use.

It's impossible to get anything beyond S-Video on some older systems like the Commodore 64. S-Video is the best it can get.

Impossible without modification, likely possible with modification. If it's like the NES's PPU, which directly produces composite video, then, like the NESRGB, an FPGA could be fitted between the CPU and video chip to intercept communication to that chip and create digital RGB from that. If it's a newer design that produces digital RGB/YCbCr and sends that to an encoder, you could, like the UltraHDMI, tap that digital video before it hits the encoder.

Worst-case scenario, such as an all-in-one chip that directly outputs composite and/or S-Video with no other digital output, then yeah, not much you can do besides swapping the motherboard (or possibly the processor) with an FPGA implementation. :/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 578
Konsolkongen wrote:
A component mod is in the works.

That's not really a "component mod", that's an almost full reimplementation of the video chip on an FPGA. If you want something like that, the Turbo Chameleon 64 already provides it in cartridge form.

nmalinoski wrote:
Worst-case scenario, such as an all-in-one chip that directly outputs composite and/or S-Video with no other digital output, then yeah, not much you can do besides swapping the motherboard (or possibly the processor) with an FPGA implementation. :/

That is exactly the case with the VIC-II.
_________________
GCVideo releases: https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/releases


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:45 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
Unseen wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Worst-case scenario, such as an all-in-one chip that directly outputs composite and/or S-Video with no other digital output, then yeah, not much you can do besides swapping the motherboard (or possibly the processor) with an FPGA implementation. :/

That is exactly the case with the VIC-II.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VIC-II looks like a graphics chip, not an all-in-one CPU+GPU, and a socketed one at that; so it seems to me like a NESRGB-like product could fit between the VIC-II and the mainboard to tap instructions and separately provide RGB/YPbPr/HDMI output. Being that the VIC-II is already socketed, boards could be prefabbed, and installation would be much less intensive than a NESRGB.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 578
nmalinoski wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VIC-II looks like a graphics chip, not an all-in-one CPU+GPU, and a socketed one at that; so it seems to me like a NESRGB-like product could fit between the VIC-II and the mainboard to tap instructions and separately provide RGB/YPbPr/HDMI output.

Yes, it is a graphics chip. The NESRGB is not though - the NES PPU has a few unused pins that output the palette index of the current pixel(*), the NESRGB uses that and snoops palette register accesses to construct an RGB value for the current pixel.

The VIC-II has nothing comparable, even if you leave the original chip in the system to serve as address and timing generator, you still need to recreate the entire pixel generation (current video mode, selected colors, visible sprites, their priority and position, current text line cache etc.) via FPGA, which is almost the whole video chip. The component video "mod" linked a few posts earlier attempts to do exactly that, but I do not know how accurate it is.

(*) Slightly simplified, one bit is missing and NESRGB uses a clever method to reconstruct it
_________________
GCVideo releases: https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/releases


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: Denmark
Well, it’s still a modification to your console that does component video. Not sure how I’m wording that incorrectly by calling it a “component mod”.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 3176
Location: Ireland
Quote:
The component video "mod" linked a few posts earlier attempts to do exactly that, but I do not know how accurate it is.


It's pretty accurate if early reports are to be believed as it has been tested with a lot of demos etc. If 100% accuracy/authenticity is important to you I'll also be doing an analogue only version of the mod, which will basically be a S-video bypass. Coupled with a Lumafix that's the absolute best S-video quality you can get from C64.

The S-video bypass component is also present in the component version so you can choose between 100% authentic "good as it gets" S-video and component video via FPGA.

As for OSSC pro, from what I understand S-video and composite support would bump the cost up significantly so having those as an optional extra makes total sense I think.
_________________
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:09 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 447
Konsolkongen wrote:


It's been out for a while. I've done it. It looks amazing!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:30 am 



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 11
Whoa this is really great news. I am somewhat late to the party and only heard yesterday about the OSSC Pro. This news is almost as exciting as the PS5 tech specs. I really appreciate the work of marqs. Looks like marqs is on a par now with Mark Cerny ;) Really looking foward into this especially the deinterlacing capabilities. I want to request convenient controls. With the framemeister it's really a hassle to fine tune the image. Change a value and wait 3 seconds until the black screen is over, change the value again and have again a black screen and so on. Here I have to praise the Extron DSC 301 HD even if this VP has no remote control. Scaling the image and changing the settings on the front of the VP with control dials and buttons works like a charm. I would say I am even faster this way even when there would be a remote control available. Also the remote control itself should be high quality. With some remote controls you have to press buttons so hard you almost break your fingers...

Kez wrote:
That list is far from comprehensive. I have experimented with GSM a fair bit and decided it isn't worth the hassle (for me). Even games that are purported to work often end up with weird aspect ratios or other problems...


With the right setup it's not that bad I think. With the OSSC and the Extron DSC 301 HD combo the weird aspect ratio is absolutely no problem because of the great scaling cababilities of the Extron VP. Also if GSM selector doesn't work you should try the HDTV Xploder disc. This way you can extent the list of working games. This way for some games I don't have to use the skip video option of the GSM Selector. Silent Hill 3 is another example. This game didn't work at all with the GSM selector but plays nicely with the HDTV Xploder disc. Also if you live in PAL fields it's worth buying a chipped PS2 because a lot of NTSC games have native 480p support where PAL games don't have this option. With GSM Selector you sometimes get even a better image quality than with native 480p modes available in some games. For example this is the case with Shadow of the Colossus and Prince of Persia The Two Thrones. That's because with the GSM Selector we get the image directly from the back buffer which then isn't scaled by the PS2 and instead is scaled by your VP. This way we have a much more sharper image. Probably we still could improve the image quality with the right hex codes to disable the scaling of the image done by the PS2. For example Ratchet and Clank 2 has a native 480p option but unfortunately the image looks quite blurry. This is not a problem of the VP but due to the scaling of the back buffer done by the PS2. For more info about this have a look into this thread: http://psx-scene.com/forums/f291/frame-buffer-usage-progressive-scan-compatibility-111435/ (The page / server seems to be down at the moment...) We need more mips assembly hackers to figure out how to disable PS2 back buffer scaling via hex codes via software like Codebreaker or ps2rdmod! Also a high quality component cable for PS2 is important. The cheap ones will produce artefacts but I can strongly recommend the one from HD retrovision. A guy in a forum thread wrote he could force more PS2 games to 480p with a PS2 VGA cable. I wonder if that's true? Can anybody confirm this?

In my experience the framemeister is most happy with rgb signals (via Scart). When feeding the framemeister with HDMI or Component (YPbPr) I saw more deinterlacing artefacts than with Scart RGB. Maybe it has to do with the color space conversion the FM is doing? Has anybody also experienced that?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:51 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
dc_coder_84 wrote:
I want to request convenient controls. With the framemeister it's really a hassle to fine tune the image. Change a value and wait 3 seconds until the black screen is over, change the value again and have again a black screen and so on. Here I have to praise the Extron DSC 301 HD even if this VP has no remote control. Scaling the image and changing the settings on the front of the VP with control dials and buttons works like a charm. I would say I am even faster this way even when there would be a remote control available.

The blackouts are a byproduct of HDMI; it's not specifically a Framemeister problem; you'll also see that with the DSC 301 HD when changing your output mode.

My understanding of what the OSSC Pro will be means that the OSSC Pro will be able to change settings without HDMI blackouts, but only when using the full scaler mode with framerate conversion, which generally means periodic dropped frames and/or tearing; however, once you've gotten the image the way you want it, I imagine it will be straightforward to switch to a different scaling method while retaining the input image quality.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:38 pm 



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 11
This maybe also a problem of HDMI but in practice and day to day usage I find the Extron DSC 301 HD and the OSSC way more convenient to customise than the framemeister. It's not only HDMI it's also quality of display, buttons, control dials, remote control, button layout, UX design etc.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:56 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 262
After using a 301 for 12 months I am now a huge fan of those dials. Going back to buttons on my dvdo is painful.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Konsolkongen wrote:


Not really. I know all about the project because I'm making something similar. What that does is snoop the address and data bus off the VIC-II then try and simulate the VIC-II using an FPGA. I'm making something similar which is an FPGA re-implementation of the entire VIC-II. However, it will not be 100% compatible, and is really VIC-II emulation since the die for the VIC-II has not yet been fully decoded.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:52 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 447
Steddyman wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:


Not really. I know all about the project because I'm making something similar. What that does is snoop the address and data bus off the VIC-II then try and simulate the VIC-II using an FPGA. I'm making something similar which is an FPGA re-implementation of the entire VIC-II. However, it will not be 100% compatible, and is really VIC-II emulation since the die for the VIC-II has not yet been fully decoded.


Again, that mod isn't "in the works," it's been out for > a year, and it looks amazing.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:50 am 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 53
Location: New Jersey
Many people have 8-bit systems modded or 16-bit unmodded systems running Composite or S-Video, like myself, and aren't interested in retrofitting a half dozen of them with an RGB or HDMI solution, which would be somewhat fruitless to run through the Pro anyway. My concern is that the GPIO for those connections gets lost in the shuffle and not made.

BTW, has there been any official update on the development of this device?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 875
Greg2600 wrote:
Many people have 8-bit systems modded or 16-bit unmodded systems running Composite or S-Video, like myself, and aren't interested in retrofitting a half dozen of them with an RGB or HDMI solution, which would be somewhat fruitless to run through the Pro anyway. My concern is that the GPIO for those connections gets lost in the shuffle and not made.

BTW, has there been any official update on the development of this device?


I think the GPIO is going to be an extremely important part of the Pro and it will be severely limited without one. The feature Im excited for (240p120 VGA out) wont be possible without it. I think the devs understand there is a strong demand for a robust analog in/out interface.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 765
Location: Finland
Greg2600 wrote:
Many people have 8-bit systems modded or 16-bit unmodded systems running Composite or S-Video, like myself, and aren't interested in retrofitting a half dozen of them with an RGB or HDMI solution, which would be somewhat fruitless to run through the Pro anyway. My concern is that the GPIO for those connections gets lost in the shuffle and not made.

BTW, has there been any official update on the development of this device?
There is also the possibility of decoding composite/s-video signals connected to the ADC via 3xRCA which would not need additional HW or reservation of GPIO pins. However, developing all the required DSP functionality is a project of its own so I would not expect that to be available anytime soon unless someone is really up to the task. The easy and fast route thus is to initially provide the functionality with an add-on card including a dedicated decoder chip such as ADV7280A.

There's not too much to report from the development side at the moment. It's nice to hear that many are interested in the scaling & deinterlacing possibilities, but the recent focus has been on the framework for adaptive line multiplication since that's among the most unique things offered by the device. To my understanding even most FPGA console re-implementations lack such functionality, making the user select between slightly different operating frequency with framelocked output, or original operating frequency with non-framelocked output. For many neither is a big loss, but a significant amount of work has been done here to make it possible to run everything framelocked with minimal latency and maximum compatibility (standard timings aside from pixel clock frequency which is defined by source refresh rate). Focus will naturally shift to scaling and deinterlacing implementations once the first 2 processing modes and basic system functionality get implemented.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 3176
Location: Ireland
Quote:
The blackouts are a byproduct of HDMI; it's not specifically a Framemeister problem; you'll also see that with the DSC 301 HD when changing your output mode.


But you don't see it with the 301 HD when zooming/panning the image etc, same with the Dvdo scalers, it's just bad design on the FM.
_________________
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2020
Posts: 1
Location: Stuttgart / GER
Sorry if this has been asked before:
- I really like the passive Audio passthrough for the AV1 Input (Output via 3,5mm Jack) from the OSSC. Will this be still available on the OSSC Pro Version?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:40 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Posts: 79
Location: Seattle
Does anyone know whether the OSSC Pro will be capable of scaling 1080i60?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:05 am 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 154
Speedy wrote:
Does anyone know whether the OSSC Pro will be capable of scaling 1080i60?


Why not use your TV's internal scaler for that? :o


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 945
Maybe he means 1080i output? That certainly would be useful for HD CRTs as well as multisync pro monitors, maybe even also some old HD LCDs and plasmas.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1614
1080i could be useful for a few, but keep in mind that video games are in motion. Most game content will look better at 720p than 1080i, because there will be 720 full progressive active lines every frame--instead 540 fields (and unavoidable deinterlacing artifacts/blurriness).
_________________
We apologise for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2019
Posts: 59
Location: California, USA
Late to the party here "a small add-on PCB compatible with a couple Terasic FPGA dev boards (DE10-Nano, DE2-115) is in works and available soon." Has this been made available yet? Thanks


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 945
orange808 wrote:
1080i could be useful for a few, but keep in mind that video games are in motion. Most game content will look better at 720p than 1080i, because there will be 720 full progressive active lines every frame--instead 540 fields (and unavoidable deinterlacing artifacts/blurriness).


Not really. There may have been issues with SD interlacing like comb artifacts during motion, but none of this is really an issue with 1080i. The thing is that very few people actually get to see what 1080i actually looks like, since most will only see it processed and deinterlaced into 1080p or scaled higher. But 1080i presented natively is a thing of beauty. It should definitely be supported.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:57 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 358
Location: BW, Germany
BambooShadow wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked before:
- I really like the passive Audio passthrough for the AV1 Input (Output via 3,5mm Jack) from the OSSC. Will this be still available on the OSSC Pro Version?

Likewise – and yes. Even better: indications are that one will be able to pass the audio of any of the built-in AV inputs through to the 3.5mm jack:

Spoiler: show
marqs wrote:
zarkFR wrote:
Also, third picture shows only one 3.5 audio jack. Could this connector output passthrough audio from scart (if scart is selected as input) or component (if comp is selected as input) ?
SCART audio can be passed to 3.5mm jack as there's an audio switch IC on the PCB.
[...]
6t8k wrote:
zarkFR: if I don't haphazardly overestimate what that audio switch IC will be capable of, you'll at least be able to choose via the menu which source is connected to the 3.5mm jack (which is awesome by the way Image).

Letting it switch automatically on top of that would merely be a matter of coding that functionality, which anyone would be able to contribute in principle, since it's open source (still easily the best aspect of this endeavor overall in my opinion!).


Beyond that, it'd be interesting to know whether this could even include the HDMI input. The ADV7611 HDMI RX has audio extraction support, but I think we don't know yet whether A) there will be a dedicated DAC (probably not) or B) the 3.5mm audio output jack is connected to the Cyclone V in such a way that a suitable DAC could be implemented in the FPGA. It's safe to say at this point that it could be done by an extension module connected via GPIO -- but depending on the way the built-in 3.5mm audio output jack is connected, that extension module would have to bring its own audio jack, which would be a little wasteful. Maybe marqs can chime in on that a bit.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 585 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fudoh, The Core Affect, XtraSmiley and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group