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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:02 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:

But yeah, I'm sure on passthrough it looks much better than the CSY-2100 clones (though the one I got way back ended up looking fine right out of the box!)


Maybe Im just lucky, but the two CSY2100 clones I own have been great. Ive compared them to my Audio Authority VGA>Component converter on the DC using Street Fighter 3 and the results were identical. I could not tell the difference on my 51" plasma.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:55 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:

But yeah, I'm sure on passthrough it looks much better than the CSY-2100 clones (though the one I got way back ended up looking fine right out of the box!)


Maybe Im just lucky, but the two CSY2100 clones I own have been great. Ive compared them to my Audio Authority VGA>Component converter on the DC using Street Fighter 3 and the results were identical. I could not tell the difference on my 51" plasma.


I think it's a tad bit of hivemind over-worrying, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people pop theirs open and start tweaking the pots the first time they ever plug it in, heh. I've since grabbed some other stuff, but those clones are a great starting point of this insane rabbit hole so many of us have fallen down :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:22 pm 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
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Josh128 wrote:
Just came across an old thread from someone else requesting the same 240/288p 60 to 120Hz conversion feature, with the same use case that I was interested in, outputting to 31KHz CRT monitors.

https://videogameperfection.com/forums/ ... frequency/

Apparently smorsked saw the same advantages over the 480p line doubling with scanline insertion that I experienced, the most major being no loss of brightness in a 240p120 image vs a 480p60 image wtih the artificial scanlines. Hadnt seen this post until today, just found it cool someone was requesting the same feature over 2 years ago.

Having used both 120hz 240p modes an 480p with scanlines inserted on a VGA CRT. Personally I think 480p+scanlines looks better. (240p 120hz just didn't look quite right. The image was too sharp ) I never had any issues with brightness loss. (Especially given that modern Scanline shaders allow you to adjust how strong the scanlines are.)
Here's some pictures I took a few years ago of this.(Not a perfect comparison)
https://imgsli.com/MTE2MDQ
The only difference between these images is that the 480p picture was taken with 1/30 exposure time vs 1/25 exposure time. (And some weirdness of 120hz ultrawide 240p modes) And surely one image is very slightly brighter than the other but nothing significant enough to be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:01 am 


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BONKERS wrote:
Josh128 wrote:
Just came across an old thread from someone else requesting the same 240/288p 60 to 120Hz conversion feature, with the same use case that I was interested in, outputting to 31KHz CRT monitors.

https://videogameperfection.com/forums/ ... frequency/

Apparently smorsked saw the same advantages over the 480p line doubling with scanline insertion that I experienced, the most major being no loss of brightness in a 240p120 image vs a 480p60 image wtih the artificial scanlines. Hadnt seen this post until today, just found it cool someone was requesting the same feature over 2 years ago.

Having used both 120hz 240p modes an 480p with scanlines inserted on a VGA CRT. Personally I think 480p+scanlines looks better. (240p 120hz just didn't look quite right. The image was too sharp ) I never had any issues with brightness loss. (Especially given that modern Scanline shaders allow you to adjust how strong the scanlines are.)
Here's some pictures I took a few years ago of this.(Not a perfect comparison)
https://imgsli.com/MTE2MDQ
The only difference between these images is that the 480p picture was taken with 1/30 exposure time vs 1/25 exposure time. (And some weirdness of 120hz ultrawide 240p modes) And surely one image is very slightly brighter than the other but nothing significant enough to be a problem.


Its a matter of personal preference I suppose. My RA build lets me do 240p120 without having to use the ultrawide mode. I simply set 320x240 or 256x240 (depending on system) in CRU with refresh of 119.88 or 120 and RA lets me select whichever I want. They are definitely very similar in sharpness to 480p in my case, but I find the complete lack of flicker and additional brightness in the 240p120 mode look better to me, I find it feels more authentic. Of course if you do black frame insertion to mitigate the double strobe illusion (which may bother some, it doesnt bother me), then you are about at the same brightness and flicker as the 480p60 mode with scanlines.

In any case, if the new OSSC is as powerful and flexible as it appears to be, it may be technically capable of a 3 types of 240p 120- Standard, BFI (which works well on CRT and could work wonders for 120Hz LCDs that dont have BFI built in), and motion interpolated. On paper this could well be the ultimate video processor for retro gaming.


Last edited by Josh128 on Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:14 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
Marqs, any idea of when we'll get a release schedule or timeline?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:02 pm 



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Is component video inputs still going to be in the weird red/green/blue order (all my component equipment has red/blue/green)?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:13 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 160
ZellSF wrote:
Is component video inputs still going to be in the weird red/green/blue order (all my component equipment has red/blue/green)?

Well I'll be damned, you're right. I bet it's from YPbPr being luma/green, chroma-blue, chroma-red, in that order, for why the standard jack order is RBG for YPbPr component inputs. The semi de facto standard also seems to be the video's red on the physical left of the device (from the front's perspective, red on right if you're looking at the back panel). If the YPrPr jacks are vertical, red on the bottom seems to be the standard.

Lots of devices also seem to put the right channel of the audio input towards the physical right side of the device from the perspective of the device's front panel. This means that if you're looking at the back of a TV or DVD player, the left/right white/red audio jacks are backwards. If the audio jacks are vertical, red/right on the bottom and left/white on the top seems to be the de facto standard?

https://www.shinybowusa.com/shop/images ... TACKED.jpg
https://www.us.marantz.com/Assets/image ... mage_4.jpg
https://www.sony.com/articleimage/servl ... 007IH8WQAW

Amusingly, looking at Digikey's RCA multi-jack blocks, the audio blocks seem to work this way, but the red/blue/green ones are backwards from this where red would be on the top/right of the box (with left/right reversed when you're looking at the back panel).

Mike Chi's new RetroTINK boxes seem to follow these layout rules, amusingly enough.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:31 pm 


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I don't have read all the thread, but I see in the project pictures only 2 hdmi ports (in-out). @marqs have you considered addindg 3~4 hdmi ports and use a splitter functionality? It would be a killer machine if you can also connect modern consoles to the OSSC Pro: not only to add scanlines, filters, tating image, etc.. also reducing the number of wires in our setups.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:31 am 


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Unseen wrote:
Lumagen claims that their newest Radiance processors use Silicon Image (now Lattice) chips, but I couldn't find any plausible-looking parts on the Lattice site at a glance.

And now I know why: I ran across a photo of the internals of a Radiance 4242 with 18Gbps boards installed - Lumagen uses the SiI9777 on both the input and output side. It is not actually a standalone transmitter or receiver, but instead a "port processor" which has multiple HDMI inputs and outputs. It is able to split an input-side 600MHz HDMI 2.0 signal into two 340MHz HDMI 1.4 signals and also do the reverse for the output side. Interesting idea, but implementing 2x 340MHz HDMI outputs is IMHO still not a viable option for OSSC Pro.
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Last edited by Unseen on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:34 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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jandrogo wrote:
I don't have read all the thread, but I see in the project pictures only 2 hdmi ports (in-out). @marqs have you considered addindg 3~4 hdmi ports and use a splitter functionality? It would be a killer machine if you can also connect modern consoles to the OSSC Pro: not only to add scanlines, filters, tating image, etc.. also reducing the number of wires in our setups.

I'm not convinced adding more HDMI inputs would make it a killer machine. I think trying to turn it into a massive switcher/scaler combo would muddy its purpose and raise its cost for minimal benefit to most people.

If you have multiple HDMI consoles you'd like to connect, you could use an HDMI switcher, just as anyone now needs a switcher for connecting multiple consoles to any of the analogue inputs on existing OSSCs; and, generally speaking, HDMI consoles don't frequently adjust their output resolution, so any added renegotiation time from a longer HDMI chain is moot.

Technologically speaking, 7th gen, 8th gen, and emulator consoles might benefit (depending on what you want to do), but nothing newer, because the OSSC Pro wouldn't be able to handle 4K.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:58 pm 



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I'd more interested in SCART having multiple inputs rather than HDMI. The only HDMI it needs is out, and if you need pass through 1 in and 1 out.

I could do with 4 scart inputs and 2 component inputs.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:19 pm 



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Things like HDMI splitters and switchers could be added to a 19" rack enclosure so they won't need to be internal to the OSSC pro itself, but would be presented as a single module.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:21 pm 


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Well, thinking about it, a second HDMI input, and a second SCART too, might have an interest in regards to reliance/resilience, if the circuits are enough separate so that you have a second input available in case you fry/break one.
That's a luxury, cost-and-space wise.
A single input each should be fine if the board is solidly built with sturdy components and has easy-to-replace on-board protection.

But seriously, who wishes the Pro to end up costing like $100 more than necessary just for convenience and fanciness ? :?
I'd even want the casing to be optional really. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Xyga wrote:
Well, thinking about it, a second HDMI input, and a second SCART too, might have an interest in regards to reliance/resilience, if the circuits are enough separate so that you have a second input available in case you fry/break one.
That's a luxury, cost-and-space wise.
A single input each should be fine if the board is solidly built with sturdy components and has easy-to-replace on-board protection.

But seriously, who wishes the Pro to end up costing like $100 more than necessary just for convenience and fanciness ? :?
I'd even want the casing to be optional really. ^^

I think duplicating inputs would best be served by separate switchers. I think having one of each input type will keep the cost to benefit ratio balanced.

That said, I think there might be some benefit to having some integration between the switchers and the OSSC Pro. With some connectivity between the OSSC Pro and, say, a SCART switcher, the OSSC Pro could be aware of each input on each switcher, and an association could be made between each input and a specific console/profile.

For example, if a PlayStation connected to input 2 on a SCART switch is turned on and gets video, the OSSC Pro would be informed that input 1-2 has been activated, and from there the switcher would switch to that input, then the OSSC Pro could automatically activate AV1 and load a PlayStation-specific profile.

Big downsides, though:
a) The need for custom switchers that can integrate into the OSSC Pro, or custom hardware that can talk to Extron/Kramer/Creston gear over RS232 or Etherner, or custom hardware that can talk to gscartsw/gcompsw units; and
b) Still won't be able to detect changes in pixel clock to dynamically apply appropriate scaling.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:56 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Xyga wrote:
Well, thinking about it, a second HDMI input, and a second SCART too, might have an interest in regards to reliance/resilience, if the circuits are enough separate so that you have a second input available in case you fry/break one.
That's a luxury, cost-and-space wise.
A single input each should be fine if the board is solidly built with sturdy components and has easy-to-replace on-board protection.

But seriously, who wishes the Pro to end up costing like $100 more than necessary just for convenience and fanciness ? :?
I'd even want the casing to be optional really. ^^

I think duplicating inputs would best be served by separate switchers. I think having one of each input type will keep the cost to benefit ratio balanced.

That said, I think there might be some benefit to having some integration between the switchers and the OSSC Pro. With some connectivity between the OSSC Pro and, say, a SCART switcher, the OSSC Pro could be aware of each input on each switcher, and an association could be made between each input and a specific console/profile.

For example, if a PlayStation connected to input 2 on a SCART switch is turned on and gets video, the OSSC Pro would be informed that input 1-2 has been activated, and from there the switcher would switch to that input, then the OSSC Pro could automatically activate AV1 and load a PlayStation-specific profile.

Big downsides, though:
a) The need for custom switchers that can integrate into the OSSC Pro, or custom hardware that can talk to Extron/Kramer/Creston gear over RS232 or Etherner, or custom hardware that can talk to gscartsw/gcompsw units; and
b) Still won't be able to detect changes in pixel clock to dynamically apply appropriate scaling.

I like the concept of some kinda of "retro control bus" but it would be hard to get enough devices on board to be useful


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:21 am 


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keilmillerjr wrote:
Everything new lately is hdmi out only, even if it claims to be “retro”.


Tell me about it. Even the company Analogue makes devices with only HDMI out. That makes no sense.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:53 am 



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the Goat wrote:
keilmillerjr wrote:
Everything new lately is hdmi out only, even if it claims to be “retro”.


Tell me about it. Even the company Analogue makes devices with only HDMI out. That makes no sense.


So what makes something retro? The XBOX 360 and PS3 had HDMI and guess when they were released...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:04 am 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
I like the concept of some kinda of "retro control bus" but it would be hard to get enough devices on board to be useful

Agreed. The only way you're going to be able to detect pixel clock changes is at each individual device, which could be harnessed with a hardware mod/tap/whatever that would ultimately relay that information to the OSSC so it can react accordingly; but, at that point, I think you might as well just consider an internal HDMI mod.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:28 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 380
XtraSmiley wrote:
the Goat wrote:
keilmillerjr wrote:
Everything new lately is hdmi out only, even if it claims to be “retro”.


Tell me about it. Even the company Analogue makes devices with only HDMI out. That makes no sense.


So what makes something retro? The XBOX 360 and PS3 had HDMI and guess when they were released...

It is very easy (and cheap) to buy a good quality dac and plug it into a hdmi port and have analogue out if you want. It takes up a considerable amount of room (on a small device) and components to add redundant analogue ports.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:31 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
Yes, I'm all for least amount of extras in regards to ports IF the converters are cheap and plentiful. That way the overall device is smaller, cheaper, and people can just buy what they need.

Back to my original question, I know the timeline might be unknown right now, but any idea when we will have a timeline?

Like, it might be impossible to say OSSCP will ship in July, but maybe you can post, OSSCP is at factory, in March we'll know when we might be able to ship?

Sorry, this is probably like nagging you, but I AM SO STOKED for this! Super AWESOME product from day one and so happy a Pro version is coming out!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:46 pm 


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XtraSmiley wrote:
the Goat wrote:
keilmillerjr wrote:
Everything new lately is hdmi out only, even if it claims to be “retro”.


Tell me about it. Even the company Analogue makes devices with only HDMI out. That makes no sense.


So what makes something retro? The XBOX 360 and PS3 had HDMI and guess when they were released...

I'm not sure what makes something retro and I don't consider PS3 or xbox360 retro. But PS3 and xbox360 both featured analog outputs. HDMI was only added to the xbox360 later in life.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:46 pm 



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the Goat wrote:
I'm not sure what makes something retro and I don't consider PS3 or xbox360 retro. But PS3 and xbox360 both featured analog outputs. HDMI was only added to the xbox360 later in life.


Well PS3 had HDMI out of the box, and the point I was making is that it's over a decade old, 50 lifetimes in electronic toy tech. You may not consider it retro, but it's old enough that I don't think anyone can consider HDMI 1.3 cutting edge or even modern.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:33 pm 


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I would say that the idea of a retro gaming console or arcade stems from the true nostalgia of looking back from about age 30 or later at what you played (or could have played) as a kid, age 5-15 or so. Enough time has to have passed that you re-experience as a fully mature, somewhat weathered adult, what you experienced as a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed kid/adolescent.

If a console generation comes to pass while you are already an adult, even a young adult, its harder to consider that generation with the same nostalgia. For me, the last true "retro" console I consider is the N64, even though I had just turned 17 when it released. Its been 15 years since the release of the X360, so many 15 year olds that got to open their Xbox 360 on Christmas morning are now turning 30. These same chaps probably consider the 360/PS3 generation "retro", or if not, they definitely consider the DC/PS2/GC/Xbox generation as such.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:39 pm 


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Sure, the launch 360 didn't have HDMI, CRT TVs were still manufactured at the time lol, and people just at the beginning of switching techs to LCD-plasma.

But I have a hard time considering consoles that were 1080p capabe and ended production 3~4 years ago, with games publishing up to 2018 (including still a few decent titles btw 2015-17) as 'retro' yet.

Say both machines stayed relevant up until approximately the end of 2014, they're more like 5 years ago machines then, so we can give it maybe 2 more years to call them 'retro' (3 at worst), when the PS4/Xbone become completely obsolated by their successors on the market.
Nosalgia notwhistanding and more than lenght, what's relevant is to put an entire gen in-between, IMHO.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:44 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
Nah, the true definition of retro is actually this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Anything else and it's just YOUR opinion, not actually, you know, fact. (obviously I'm joking)


Last edited by XtraSmiley on Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:41 pm 



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If anyone is going to work on a rackmount case, I think it would be beneficial to include mounting options (standoff holes) for both the regular and the Pro models plus one or two Koryuu units. All of that should be able to fit into a shallow 1U enclosure.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:52 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 160
Would it be possible to have 10-bit deep color support for us video guys? It looks like the hardware is there, so would it be possible? Ye olde SDI was 10-bit since inception because 8-bit just didn't cut it for digitizing old analog video sources, especially when trying to clean up things in post from partial/limited range quantization 8-bit, aka 16-235.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:07 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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Xyga wrote:
Sure, the launch 360 didn't have HDMI


I was ready to call BS on this, then I looked it up. I can't believe HDMI wasn't ubiquitous enough yet for the 360 launch!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:40 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Xyga wrote:
Sure, the launch 360 didn't have HDMI


I was ready to call BS on this, then I looked it up. I can't believe HDMI wasn't ubiquitous enough yet for the 360 launch!

HDMI was bleeding edge at the time. Definitely not ubiquitous. It's one of the reasons the PS3 cost so much more than the xbox360 at launch.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:47 pm 


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Yeah, some of the early flat panel TVs didn't have HDMI either.
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