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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1692
CZroe wrote:
Did you really have to modify your SCART cable to extract audio? I have the older OSSC with DVI and the audio upgrade board and audio from the SCART input comes right out the 3.5mm jack even without modification. That's what it's there for, since my model didn't originally do HDMI audio. I thought it could be used as an input or output in the HDMI version.

Sort of. On the 1.6 OSSCs, it can either be used as an audio breakout for AV1 (I imagine it doesn't even hit the processor), or it can be used as an audio input for AV2. It's not assignable, so you can't use it as a breakout/analogue output for just any input.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:15 pm 



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 72
nmalinoski wrote:
CZroe wrote:
Did you really have to modify your SCART cable to extract audio? I have the older OSSC with DVI and the audio upgrade board and audio from the SCART input comes right out the 3.5mm jack even without modification. That's what it's there for, since my model didn't originally do HDMI audio. I thought it could be used as an input or output in the HDMI version.

Sort of. On the 1.6 OSSCs, it can either be used as an audio breakout for AV1 (I imagine it doesn't even hit the processor), or it can be used as an audio input for AV2. It's not assignable, so you can't use it as a breakout/analogue output for just any input.
Yeah, because even on mine, the same audio input I used for all video inputs. I prefer to use one of those $2 SCART plugs with the composite AV breakout. That puts the RCA cinch audio connectors right in line with the component video connectors rather than using a cable going into the headphone jack on the side.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:38 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2020
Posts: 1
Unseen wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Will you be able to double native 720p graphics and then add scanlines for 1440p displays with this?

Quick estimation based on the released information:
  • 2560 x 1440 at 60Hz needs a 235MHz pixel clock
  • the ADV7513 HDMI transmitter of the OSSC Pro is limited to a 165MHz TMDS clock and officially only supports HDMI 1.4
  • 24 bit RGB uses the same TMDS clock frequency as the pixel clock -> won't work
  • YCbCr 4:2:2 in HDMI 1.4 also uses the same TMDS clock as the pixel clock
  • YCbCr 4:2:0 with 8 bits per component uses half the pixel clock for the TMDS clock -> within the limit, but 4:2:0 is an HDMI 2.0 feature and from a quick glance at the datasheet it is not clear if the ADV7513 could be convinced to output it
  • also, scanlines and 4:2:0 don't mix very well in my experience


Based on this, I do have a couple questions. Would it be possible to output, say a 2560x1080 frame with very minimal timings for front/back porch and sync width? By my calculations it might just squeeze in or go a tiny bit over depending on the exact frame rate. Failing that, I imagine it would be possible to alter the size of the frame in general, for example putting a 640x480 image into a 848x480 frame with the black bars on the sides. I'm guessing it'll come down to what features are developed, yes/no?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:48 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
Will the OSSC Pro be able to display medium resolution (I believe 24kh) arcade games on a modern TV?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:20 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 42
XtraSmiley wrote:
Will the OSSC Pro be able to display medium resolution (I believe 24kh) arcade games on a modern TV?

The original one already can, so that would be a safe assumption.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:46 am 


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Posts: 743
Location: Finland
Regarding 1440p, I just ran some tests with ADV7513 and it seems like that could be feasible with certain remarks. Firstly, 1920x1440 (4:3) with reduced blanking is only ~185MHz which seemed to work just fine, at least with the sample I have. It means that 240pX6 and 480pX3 should be doable after all. 2560x1440 (16:9) is more problematic as the pixel clock is 242MHz even with reduced blanking. I managed to get stable sync by using pixel repetition (i.e. 1/2 horizontal resolution is sent to ADV7513 which multiplies it by 2) but there were some visible artifacts which indicate that either TMDS clock is too high or output of PR PLL is not stable enough. I'll check with another set of HDMI cables but it looks like 1920x1440 would be the safest choice for 1440p.


Last edited by marqs on Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:51 am 


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Woohoo !
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:05 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 136
That would be awesome. :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:35 pm 



Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 3
Nice!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:40 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2336
Do (4K) TVs generally support 1920x1440?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:03 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2017
Posts: 47
6x! :o that will allow thicker scanlines (3/3 much better than the 2/3 from 5x). Also, 5x vertical with 6x horizontal is still a bit wider than a crt; this new 6x vertical with integer horizontal would get closer to the same aspect ratio as crt (matching it with some consoles).

The OSSC Pro does a lot of new things, but I don't understand the meaning of most of them. Just wanted thicker scanlines, a sharper image and a more accurate aspect ratio; this new 6x does all of those, so I'm upgrading :D .

Regards!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:33 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 851
naz wrote:
The OSSC Pro does a lot of new things, but I don't understand the meaning of most of them. Just wanted thicker scanlines, a sharper image and a more accurate aspect ratio; this new 6x does all of those, so I'm upgrading .


Yeah this sounds pretty good, but wouldn't you need a 1440p monitor to achieve the desired result? I have no experience with how 4K TVs are upscaling 1440p, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't do it right and end up defeating the purpose.

Now I'm fantasizing about an OLED 1440p monitor, which of course will never happen. Maybe a dual layer LCD eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:36 pm 


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I think 1440p will be more useful for native 480p content on 4k televisons. 1440p doesn't scale to 4k clean and few panels offer good video processing, so scanlines will probably be uneven with moire artifcats on most 4k tvs.

On a 1440p monitor, it will be fantastic.

edit: lol Ferman beat me to it. :)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:38 pm 



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 72
...maybe useful for tiny displays like the 1600x1440 panel used in Valve Index and Analogue Pocket.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:01 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2336
fernan1234 wrote:
Yeah this sounds pretty good, but wouldn't you need a 1440p monitor to achieve the desired result? I have no experience with how 4K TVs are upscaling 1440p, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't do it right and end up defeating the purpose.

Even if they do it very wrong, it should still look better than 1080p.

Unless of course the 4K TV can do 1080p scaling very right (integer scaling), but that's supposedly rare.

Edit: By better I mean sharper. Obviously, sharper isn't objectively better.


Last edited by ZellSF on Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:15 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 35
FWIW, LG's OLEDs handle 1440p very well from my experience. This is with a PC but still, it should work fine for those who have one.

Plus there are a ton of cheap but good 1440p PC monitors out there for people who really don't want to mess with panel scaling at all. And for relatively cheap while still being good quality.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:38 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
Sirotaca wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:
Will the OSSC Pro be able to display medium resolution (I believe 24kh) arcade games on a modern TV?

The original one already can, so that would be a safe assumption.


Thanks, but I've never been able to get my Sega System 24 games to display on a modern LCD TV with the OSSC. I'm wondering if the pro will be able to output them into something I could.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:24 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1324
marqs:
In tests I found that around ~200MHz, clock distribution becomes a lot harder.
Maybe you want to try looking at your clock traces, add some dampening there, or tweak drive strengths where possible :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:42 am 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 242
Location: Canada
This is really exciting news!

Any chance it could be programmed to hold a Look Up Table (LUT)? Would be really cool to run all my sub-4K gaming systems through it and correct their colour at the same time.

Blackmagic Designs have a Mini Converter series that can hold two 33 point LUTs and run sub $300CAD.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/pro ... converters

We use them at work, but for home use I'd have to add an HDMI to SDI converter to use it.

Completely spitballing here, but maybe the OSSC Pro could be used as a test signal generator as well? Maybe for use with LightIllusion, or CalMAN?
https://www.lightillusion.com/manual_ca ... guide.html

Is this even feasible?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:01 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1692
HDgaming42 wrote:
Completely spitballing here, but maybe the OSSC Pro could be used as a test signal generator as well? Maybe for use with LightIllusion, or CalMAN?
https://www.lightillusion.com/manual_ca ... guide.html

Is this even feasible?

I don't see why not. The existing OSSC already has an alternate firmware for testing video modes, which wouldn't fit into the main firmware due to lack of resources; I don't see why that couldn't be rolled into the firmware for this significantly more powerful version.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:18 am 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 242
Location: Canada
nmalinoski wrote:
I don't see why not. The existing OSSC already has an alternate firmware for testing video modes, which wouldn't fit into the main firmware due to lack of resources; I don't see why that couldn't be rolled into the firmware for this significantly more powerful version.


For those new to calibration there are multiple free options like DisplayCal and HCFR. Grab an X-rite i1 Display Pro and you're set.

I also have an eeColor box that can do a 65point cube LUT but it can't operate at full RGB, which it seems many earlier consoles output.

With multiple LUTs you could probably adjust for systems that were programmed for 9300k as opposed to 6500k, bringing them all into harmony.

I'd always wanted to do this previously with my old consoles, but scalers with an appropriate CMS either add lag, or their scaling is...ugh. Both the eeColor and Blackmagic routes have their shortcomings. Even if it's just something that can be planned for down the road--informing decisions made today that might impact its eventual feasibility.

I've never bothered broaching the subject before, but if something like this were added to the OSSC Pro, perhaps the 240p test suite could add a mode where it cycles through all the console's available colors in a specific order. I know that LightIllusion can be set up to take input like this (intended for DVD test pattern playback) but I'd have to dig deeper into whether the others could be set up to be "semi-automatable".

oooooor, I know that DisplayCal can interface with a number of pattern generators for full automation of calibration. Maybe there's a way to have DisplayCal talk directly to the OSSC Pro and have it trigger as necessary?

Again--probably limited appeal, but I'd rather have brought it up now during the (already well underway) planning stages.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:07 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2020
Posts: 1
If the original can do 5x at a 1200p resolution, the much faster one should be able to do 6x 240p if it is that much more powerfull. The hdmi in would be great to upscale a modded wii and dreamcast with hdmi! Starting saving for this now!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:27 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Germany
Thats great that are is going to be another OSSC at some point next year. Now I am uncertain though I should get the first OSSC soon as I have initially planned or if I should wait? I still have my Framemeister and I can wait for the better OSSC. And I think that's what I am going to do.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:24 pm 


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Posts: 817
Just came across an old thread from someone else requesting the same 240/288p 60 to 120Hz conversion feature, with the same use case that I was interested in, outputting to 31KHz CRT monitors.

https://videogameperfection.com/forums/ ... frequency/

Apparently smorsked saw the same advantages over the 480p line doubling with scanline insertion that I experienced, the most major being no loss of brightness in a 240p120 image vs a 480p60 image wtih the artificial scanlines. Hadnt seen this post until today, just found it cool someone was requesting the same feature over 2 years ago.


Last edited by Josh128 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: 1U 19" rack width
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:01 am 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 242
Location: Canada
I'll echo the calls for a full 1U 19" rack-width housing. Or at least a layout that would allow placement within such a project box. Preferably all inputs at the rear. I mean--imagine this as 1U with rack ears:

Image

Damn that's tasty! I don't know the first thing about project boxes, but these folks seem to be able to offer all the milling, punching or laser work such a project would require:
http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/p_03rack.html

An empty project box looks to be as little as $35:
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/rackmount-enclosures

Obviously it would cost more, but I'd pay a *lot* more for the above.

And maybe there's a way to satisfy those who want this approach as well as those who would prefer a more bare-bones plexi-glass sandwich.

Could you design it such that it can be sold stand-alone with all the inputs and outputs attached, as well as a kit where the inputs and outputs are connected via cable "harnesses" to the board that extend to the ports on the back of the project box?

You wouldn't need a box as deep as the ones shown. They make them shallow:
Image

That way the cables won't have far to go, reducing the chance of interference.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:45 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1692
I think it would be possible to create a rackmount kit for an OSSC Pro that wouldn't be fully-enclosed, and thus negating the need for additional internal wiring (except power). Bottom, front, and side panels, with no top or back.

The OSSC could be installed by disassembling the case, and mounting it to the bottom panel (and then probably partly reassembling the case so a middle piece supports the LCD and the top provides protection, like on the 1.6). The front panel could have a pair of levered switches for buttons 0 and 1. Assuming a power switch like the existing OSSC, you'd keep the OSSC power switch on, instead using a secondary power switch mounted to the front panel of the case.

For cable management, you could just connect cables directly to the OSSC Pro (helpful not having the top or back panels), and, to relieve stress on the OSSC, an extension off the back could be used to zip-tie cables to the chassis, like the cable clip kit I got with my CyberPower RKBS15S2F12R (I'm struggling to find photos), or like the winged Phoenix connectors often seen with Extron gear.

Maybe include a grounding wire? Or should the unit be left floating?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:03 am 


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Location: Kentucky
Looks pretty big. I'd think you could probably fit everything you needed in a half-rack unit that was shorter as well. I'm fine with your basic molded plastic box myself though.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:14 am 


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Posts: 309
Well as long as we're dreaming, I'd like the OSSC Pro to be no wider than 29 centimeters. That easily fits Ikea Kallax shelves, and should barely fit "H" style cube shelf dividers (where my OSSC currently sits). Hopefully that's still long enough to keep all inputs at the rear?

Maybe the housing could be open source too. I know I don't want to pay for a "premium" (read: expensive) case. If the PCB design still insists on having "cables coming of its ears and nose and mouth with a big light house light on it" (as neorichieb1971 put it a while back :lol: ), adding a bunch of small extension cables for every input to route everything to the back might be a little lame, but at least feasible... hopefully without too much signal degradation.


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 Post subject: Re: 1U 19" rack width
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:41 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 380
HDgaming42 wrote:
snip

THIS. I NEED IT.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:19 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2020
Posts: 3
Integration with the Mister would be awesome! Please consider adding composite+svideo outputs. Everything new lately is hdmi out only, even if it claims to be “retro”. This will ensure compatibility with almost any tv from the past 30 years.


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