OSSC Pro

[maxtherabbit]

Is there any chance to have a model that does away with the SHART connector completely and uses RGBS BNC connectors instead? I have a single RGBS BNC shielded coaxial cable for my Mega Drive but don't really want to invest in more for other systems if I would still have to use a BNC->SHART adapter.

Also will it have internal RF shielding at all?

BNC -> VGA adapters are cheap and plentiful

they work with the current OSSC but you lose the LPF feature in the THS buffer IC when you use the VGA input, with the OSSC pro that would no longer be a concern

[dead_screem]

Is there any chance to have a model that does away with the SHART connector completely and uses RGBS BNC connectors instead? I have a single RGBS BNC shielded coaxial cable for my Mega Drive but don't really want to invest in more for other systems if I would still have to use a BNC->SHART adapter.

Also will it have internal RF shielding at all?

BNC -> VGA adapters are cheap and plentiful

they work with the current OSSC but you lose the LPF feature in the THS buffer IC when you use the VGA input, with the OSSC pro that would no longer be a concern

But its still a stupid adapter that may or may not be as shielded as the BNC cables. Modern "VGA" cables are typically unshielded trash. The old crts with an attached cable are the only ones I've seen with proper shielding.

It would make more sense to have BNC on the OSSC Pro, then you could use high spec BNC cables without an adapter or use a (perhaps included) SCART (or JP RGB21) to BNC adapter. Since SCART is shit to begin with, adding a SCART to BNC adapter wont really hurt anything.

[maxtherabbit]

Is there any chance to have a model that does away with the SHART connector completely and uses RGBS BNC connectors instead? I have a single RGBS BNC shielded coaxial cable for my Mega Drive but don't really want to invest in more for other systems if I would still have to use a BNC->SHART adapter.

Also will it have internal RF shielding at all?

BNC -> VGA adapters are cheap and plentiful

they work with the current OSSC but you lose the LPF feature in the THS buffer IC when you use the VGA input, with the OSSC pro that would no longer be a concern

But its still a stupid adapter that may or may not be as shielded as the BNC cables. Modern "VGA" cables are typically unshielded trash. The old crts with an attached cable are the only ones I've seen with proper shielding.

It would make more sense to have BNC on the OSSC Pro, then you could use high spec BNC cables without an adapter or use a (perhaps included) SCART (or JP RGB21) to BNC adapter. Since SCART is shit to begin with, adding a SCART to BNC adapter wont really hurt anything.

I actually agree with you but motherfuckers are heavily invested in SCART, it's not going away

there are plenty of nicely made BNC-VGA adapters with real impedance controlled mini coax, if you think all new VGA cabling is shit you're not looking hard enough (a lot of it is shit, but there's plenty of good stuff too)

[fernan1234]

Should I blank quote that post 3 times to express my overenthusiastic agreement?

Obviously it won't happen, but the OSSC Pro not having a SCART connector might be the push that the hobby needs to, for the good of all, abandon that horrible standard that should be 100% obsolete and is only being kept alive by sheer path dependence.

[DirkSwizzler]

You can't in good conscience call it Pro without a SCART connector.

Professionals have standards.

[orange808]

Josh128's words got quoted to me in the post immediately before my post. Read it again and pay attention. It's freaking obvious.

I didn't agree with anything.

[dead_screem]

You can't in good conscience call it Pro without a SCART connector.

Professionals have standards.

Right. If you want to say it like that, professionals do have standards. Its called BNC. ya dingus. Plebs like you use SCART. SCART is a consumer standard, not professional.
All Professional broadcast, AV Professional and "Prosumer" gear always has used BNC for RGBS signals. Never SHART.

Hell, even Insurrection used BNC instead of RCA for its Gamecube YPbPr component cable and included BNC to RCA adapters for the plebs.

The Professional thing would be to have RGBS BNC on the OSSC Pro and include a SCART to BNC cable for plebs like you.

[Unseen]

The proper way for generating 1440p/4K 60+Hz would be with a FPGA which has transceivers that can directly output HDMI, but then we're talking about very different price levels (not just the FPGA chips, but development tools as well).

Symbiflow supports the ECP5-5G, which has up to four 5GBit SERDES - I'm not sure though if that family has chips with a size comparable to the Altera one you chose and I am sure that you would prefer not to port everything to a new chip and toolchain.

[Wolf_]

You can't in good conscience call it Pro without a SCART connector.

Professionals have standards.

Right. If you want to say it like that, professionals do have standards. Its called BNC. ya dingus. Plebs like you use SCART. SCART is a consumer standard, not professional.
All Professional broadcast, AV Professional and "Prosumer" gear always has used BNC for RGBS signals. Never SHART.

Hell, even Insurrection used BNC instead of RCA for its Gamecube YPbPr component cable and included BNC to RCA adapters for the plebs.

The Professional thing would be to have RGBS BNC on the OSSC Pro and include a SCART to BNC cable for plebs like you.

[sofakng]

marqs, will you be considering menu control via rs232 or other methods? (ie. wireless, etc)

also, is this forum the best place to follow the news when the DIY board will become available or do you also post to twitter, etc?

[DiegoPonga]

I think 1.4 are the last generation of dedicated HDMI transmitters as it's more practical to intergrate the high-speed HDMI IP into ASIC/FPGA itself. HDMI VRR requires v2.1 but Freesync has been a while in DisplayPort specifications.

So the OSSC Pro HDMI output is 1.4, right? Even tho, I guess there could be a VRR add-on that takes advantage of this expansion port you are including in the OSSC Pro, am I wrong?

It's not that I am crazy or anything, I know for 99% of games it is irrelevant if it's 60.08fps or if it's 59.94fps. I completely agree none of us would see the difference in 99% of games. However, in shmups and fighting games, it could mean something, as well in the retro speedrunning community. This is why taking advantage of VRR would be interesting.

This being said, I guess we're not having 4K support (which BTW is completely logical). Would it be possible however to see a similar product that ONLY multiplies 1080p so we get 4K out of your device?

Thanks a lot!

[DirkSwizzler]

...

I can tell by the misused terminology and name calling that you're definitely an expert in professionalism.

Nevermind the fact that you just quoted 2 incompatible input types used by your "standard". That totally makes sense and I have been shown the error of my ways.

Woe is me. I hath been bested on the internet.

[fernan1234]

Can't we all just agree that SCART is awful but here to stay because too many people have big setups centered around it by this point?

Now, the OSSC Pro could save a lot of space and look more elegant by having a single D-Sub 15-pin connector that with the smallest form factor is also able to transmit every type of signal, including CVBS and YC when those are available, simply requiring the corresponding cable adapters that are available cheaply and in good quality from Monoprice and the like. Basically like the D-Sub connector in the NT Mini, or in MiSTer's the I/O board, but for input (though I lack the technical knowledge to determine if error user leading to mismatch in SW's expected input type and cable/signal sent could cause HW damage, which might be a good reason to abandon this idea). That way there's no need to have multiple connectors, as both SCART and BNC take up a lot more space, and it would also be unnecessary to add connector components to a future NTSC decoder add-on board.

[Unseen]

So the OSSC Pro HDMI output is 1.4, right? Even tho, I guess there could be a VRR add-on that takes advantage of this expansion port you are including in the OSSC Pro, am I wrong?

As far as I know (based on various information scattered on the net), VRR basically works by varying the size of the vertical blanking interval. This may be possible even with a transmitter that officially only supports HDMI 1.4.

On the other hand, I would not place any bet on an VRR add-on for the expansion port because that would basically be a second HDMI transmitter and I'm sceptical that the pin header as shown in the mockups/renders in the first post could reliably support the high-speed signals required for that.

[nmalinoski]

when I connect my original Xbox to my FV310 CRT (via YPbPr), and then switch between 4:3 and 16:9 modes in the Xbox's main settings, the CRT automatically switches between normal and 16:9 aspect ratio adjustments, which means automatic widescreen detection is possible. I'm not entirely sure how, though; there's got to be some kind of metadata that the Xbox transmits that my CRT is picking up on.

I dont know what your setup is like, but if your using an Xbox SCART cable its likely using the SCART standard switch signal to inform the TV if the image is 4:3 or 16:9:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART#Bla ... _switching
In other words it changes the voltage present on SCART pin 8 to signal the selected aspect ratio.

Of the three analog only consoles that provide a system menu aspect ratio option (PS2, Xbox, Wii) I think the Xbox might be the only console that uses this pin correctly and actually adjusts the voltage depending on the aspect ratio setting.

I'm aware of the aspect ratio control on SCART, but my setup is as I described: Xbox connected directly to my CRT via YPbPr component (no SCART TVs available in the US), and the CRT responds automatically to the change in widescreen setting on the console. Either the console sends some kind of metadata flag and the CRT can read it, or the CRT is detecting some change in the signal and responding itself; either way, my point is that there is a facility for detecting a change in PAR, at least with the Xbox.

Is there any chance to have a model that does away with the SHART connector completely and uses RGBS BNC connectors instead? I have a single RGBS BNC shielded coaxial cable for my Mega Drive but don't really want to invest in more for other systems if I would still have to use a BNC->SHART adapter.

SCART is common enough and embedded enough in the community to warrant its inclusion. This is a product aimed at us, not the professional video industry.

There are certainly people using BNC (you being one of them); but a BNC block would take up a large amount of space (especially if you're also asking for BNC or RCA audio for that input), whereas a DE-15 input offers the same functionality in a much more compact form, and BNC to DE-15 adapters are plentiful and cheap (that's part of the point of using DE-15 and BNC over SCART).

The only reason not to use an adapter to connect to AV3 would be the lack of low-res LPFs on that input, which is a problem with the existing OSSC. If the OSSC Pro is going to resolve that by offering the same LPF options on its DE-15 input, then there'd be no reason not to just use a BNC to DE-15 adapter for your cable.

[DiegoPonga]

So the OSSC Pro HDMI output is 1.4, right? Even tho, I guess there could be a VRR add-on that takes advantage of this expansion port you are including in the OSSC Pro, am I wrong?

As far as I know (based on various information scattered on the net), VRR basically works by varying the size of the vertical blanking interval. This may be possible even with a transmitter that officially only supports HDMI 1.4.

On the other hand, I would not place any bet on an VRR add-on for the expansion port because that would basically be a second HDMI transmitter and I'm sceptical that the pin header as shown in the mockups/renders in the first post could reliably support the high-speed signals required for that.

I see. Thank you very much! It's always pleasant to read from people who know about these things!

In this case, I am wondering: what potential use could that expansion port have?

[mufunyo]

I think 1.4 are the last generation of dedicated HDMI transmitters as it's more practical to intergrate the high-speed HDMI IP into ASIC/FPGA itself. HDMI VRR requires v2.1 but Freesync has been a while in DisplayPort specifications.

This may be a stupid suggestion, but would it be practical to do DisplayPort on the FPGA, and then use a cheap DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 IC to convert it to HDMI? Wouldn't even surprise me if VRR would be possible then too; you're generating the oddball variable blanking on the DP side and if the converter IC is dumb enough it should just pass on the timings as-is.

[DirkSwizzler]

I think 1.4 are the last generation of dedicated HDMI transmitters as it's more practical to intergrate the high-speed HDMI IP into ASIC/FPGA itself. HDMI VRR requires v2.1 but Freesync has been a while in DisplayPort specifications.

This may be a stupid suggestion, but would it be practical to do DisplayPort on the FPGA, and then use a cheap DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 IC to convert it to HDMI? Wouldn't even surprise me if VRR would be possible then too; you're generating the oddball variable blanking on the DP side and if the converter IC is dumb enough it should just pass on the timings as-is.

While HDMI is more consumer friendly. I just wanted to add that I think display port output is perfectly reasonable on a device like this if it achieves greater flexibility over its lifetime.

[dead_screem]

name calling

Dingus and plebeian are such offensive and vulgar words.

I can tell by the misused terminology and name calling that you're definitely an expert in professionalism.

Nevermind the fact that you just quoted 2 incompatible input types used by your "standard".

Ever look at the back of a Sony PVM? or basically any pro video camera equipment? It uses RGB or YPbPr over BNC coax.
As far as "incompatible" goes, most equipment uses the same BNC jacks for RGB or YPbPr but uses a switch or config option to select color space.

That totally makes sense and I have been shown the error of my ways.

Woe is me. I hath been bested on the internet.

Such a Professional.

SCART is common enough and embedded enough in the community to warrant its inclusion. This is a product aimed at us, not the professional video industry.

Common is not the same as good.

I'd be willing to bet that the people on this forum using Sony PVM and Extron setups (or who havn't yet bought in, but want to) would still like to use their extron and BNC cabling with the OSSC Pro for when a digital display is more convenient.

There are certainly people using BNC (you being one of them); but a BNC block would take up a large amount of space (especially if you're also asking for BNC or RCA audio for that input),

I agree. Thats true.
But to play Devil's advocate, the DE-15 and TRS input could be moved to the side where the SCART is and 4 BNC plus 2 RCA (or BNC) may then fit on the back by moving the ports closer.

[bobrocks95]

If you want a BNC input, then congrats, the OSSC Pro offers a GPIO connector that will allow you to attach a BNC input board.

[nmalinoski]

I'd be willing to bet that the people on this forum using Sony PVM and Extron setups (or who havn't yet bought in, but want to) would still like to use their extron and BNC cabling with the OSSC Pro for when a digital display is more convenient.

I'd be willing to bet that those who already have existing BNC setups that want them routed to HDMI displays also already have BNC to SCART adapters running into an OSSC or Framemeister.

If AV3 is finally getting full LPF options with the Pro, then they could get a BNC to DE-15 adapter for a third of the price of a BNC to SCART adapter. If they're already using a BNC to DE-15 adapter into AV3, then simply swapping their OSSC for an OSSC Pro will get them proper LPFs on AV3, and thus a slight boost in video quality.

The OSSC Pro, with the currently-advertised inputs, would serve the vast majority of its target audience, and the minority using BNC might need a $10-$15 passive adapter, rather than the $25-$45 SCART adapter (plus an RGB interface if they need to go from RGBHV to RGBS for SCART) they need now to use the OSSC 1.6 or Framemeister.

I still haven't seen anything that indicates a tangible benefit of a BNC input over AV3 with a BNC adapter.

But to play Devil's advocate, the DE-15 and TRS input could be moved to the side where the SCART is and 4 BNC plus 2 RCA (or BNC) may then fit on the back by moving the ports closer.

As far as I can tell, part of the Pro design is to orient the I/O in such a way that all cables would be oriented towards the rear, which, in my opinion, results in a cleaner, easier-to-maintain setup, especially if you're saddled with a width restriction in the location where your OSSC makes the most sense. Putting AV3 on the side and SCART on the back would result in cables exiting the sides, like the current OSSC, which conflicts with that goal of cables out the back.

[Ryoandr]

Ever look at the back of a Sony PVM? or basically any pro video camera equipment? It uses RGB or YPbPr over BNC coax.

I'd be willing to bet that the people on this forum using Sony PVM and Extron setups (or who havn't yet bought in, but want to) would still like to use their extron and BNC cabling with the OSSC Pro for when a digital display is more convenient.

[fernan1234]

Ever look at the back of a Sony PVM? or basically any pro video camera equipment? It uses RGB or YPbPr over BNC coax.

I'd be willing to bet that the people on this forum using Sony PVM and Extron setups (or who havn't yet bought in, but want to) would still like to use their extron and BNC cabling with the OSSC Pro for when a digital display is more convenient.

To be fair that is not the norm for pro monitors. The most popular models certainly use BNC connectors, in the case of BVMs they do so for everything. But as it has been said, there's no need for BNC connectors when DE15 to BNC cables are so cheap and reliable.

And it's good that the OSSC Pro's SCART connector is on the side, where it can remain unused and ignored for the rest of time.

[BuckoA51]

SCART is perfectly fine if done correctly, what makes it so janky is all the crap switches, badly wired cables etc that are on the market. Especially when switches don't properly isolate blanking/fast switching pins which carry actual voltage.

I went mostly BNC in my new setup but I can really appreciate now that routing five or six separate, bulky wires compared to one cable certainly has its downsides.

[Ryoandr]

To be fair that is not the norm for pro monitors. The most popular models certainly use BNC connectors, in the case of BVMs they do so for everything. But as it has been said, there's no need for BNC connectors when DE15 to BNC cables are so cheap and reliable.

And it's good that the OSSC Pro's SCART connector is on the side, where it can remain unused and ignored for the rest of time.

The point is not being a norm, it's that it has existed for a long time, it still works, and is widespread in a region.

The world is not only made of america and HERE BE DRAGONS.

[mufunyo]

The world is not only made of america and HERE BE DRAGONS.

As a Euro, fuck SCART into oblivion. If I have to pay over €100 for a SCART splitter (and they're rare as hens teeth to begin with), that completely negates any advantage it might have in the form of being able to use old/cheap cables. The connector is awful, hard to insert blindly, prone to partially coming loose, gets in the way of everything and is generally a nuisance. BNC all the way imho; I can insert a BNC connector blindly with one hand, it's locking, and cables are always properly shielded coax.

[BuckoA51]

I've had way more issues with component video cables coming lose, except for some which have a death grip and threaten to destroy your hardware rather than come out the socket again.

The way BNC locks into place is fantastic, why they thought consumers couldn't do this and so gave them "com-poo-nent"* I don't know...

(*Immature, but at least one person has written "shart" already ).

[maxtherabbit]

bros scart fucking sucks, I know it, you know it, everyone knows it

fact is that it's not just magically going away though, just like other legacy interfaces don't go away until after being gradually phased out over generations of equipment

not including it on the OSSC Pro would be massively foolish, that would be the worst kind of "progressivism" which ignores reality in favor of fantasy

[Xer Xian]

Two DVI-I in and two DVI-I out is what I'd like to have. Not gonna happen, for sound reasons.

Useless post this one, like the many others that express this or that profoundly self-centered feature request, the implementation of which would make absolutely zero sense on a product for the general public.

[marqs]

So the OSSC Pro HDMI output is 1.4, right? Even tho, I guess there could be a VRR add-on that takes advantage of this expansion port you are including in the OSSC Pro, am I wrong?

As far as I know (based on various information scattered on the net), VRR basically works by varying the size of the vertical blanking interval.

Yes, and that actually makes it detrimental to use VRR mode for sources that scan out at slow fixed rate, especially if the upper limit of the selected adaptive sync range is much above the source refresh rate. Enabling VRR also typically disables any low-persistence options offered by monitor as these are not truly compatible with each other. The only positive thing VRR could offer for classic consoles is the ability to handle refresh rate changes seemlessly while still holding framelock. Increased compatibility might be another thing, but well-designed monitors should display the range of VRR frequencies fine even in non-VRR mode.