OSSC Pro

[Fudoh]

i would.

Actually I have really no idea about FPGA prices in bulk, but I would expect - at least with a case - we're touching Framemeister pricing here. With a nice case, I wouldn't object to something like 349 EUR incl. tax.

[fafangus]

Oh, I think this is by far the most exciting thing in tech-world for 2020 !!!
Can't wait ^^

[Konsolkongen]

What I like most about the integrated deinterlacing feature is that it's really the first device where this is open to enhancements. Everything so far was either fixed in silicon (ASICs like the ABT102 or traditional ICs like the Marvell) or manufacturers were/are hiding their altgorithms as best as they could/can (DVDO or Lumagen).

Here we can actually see the algorithm behind the deinterlacing and this lets us change the balance between weaving and doubling based on different conditions or requirements. The Marvell's deinterlacing (used in the FM) is still unbelievably good, but with good captures from selected sequences, it shouldn't be too hard to recreate the algorithms.

I realize this probably won’t be day one but it sounds extremely promising.

[Jdurg]

I'm pretty happy with my current OSSC so likely will not be an early customer, but I am going to keep an eye on this for whenever 4k scaling is possible. With the expansion port on this thing, I also wonder if it would be possible to design an open-source auto-switcher add-on? Imagine being able to remove all of your switchers and auto-switching daisy-chains and instead connecting everything to the OSSC and having just that one device for all HDMI needs.

Not being a programmer/tech guy I have no idea if this is even possible, but if so, yeah this would be a must-have device.

[mario64]

@marqs Will the Pro provide faster switching between 240p and 480i? RAD2x handles this much faster today than OSSC so this would be a great improvement. Thanks

[Fudoh]

The RAD handles it faster on your display, because the RAD normalizes the output refresh rate, while the OSSC keeps the original refresh rate (which differs between the 240p and 480i outputs from a single system).

By adjusting the frame buffer as far as possible the Pro should be able to handle 240p to 480i back without any glitching. The buffer can basically make it perform like a seamless switcher.

[mufunyo]

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents for area scaling the way OBS implements it. This would make fractional resolutions (like 480p to 1080p) look "pixel-perfect" to the naked eye without significant blurring.

[Lawfer]

New AV inputs:
* HDMI

Oh that's awesome, thanks, will definitly pick one up!

[RGB0b]

Will you be creating a mailing list for this one? ;p

Our new site can do actual pre-orders, though I'm never keen on taking peoples money before shipping stuff, so IDK, maybe I'll do both to keep whiny types like you happy

Oh please Matt...we both know I'll never stop whining

[neorichieb1971]

I just want preset settings for each console. I'm just a gamer not a AV tinkerer.

There should be a mode for advance settings and one for lame people like me.

So please add a menu with a list of consoles, when you select that console by type and region it just does the best it can do.

Thanks.


edit - Can we have an accessory for a scart extension of about a foot in length? I don't like plugging scarts directly into expensive boxes all the time it creates stress on the contacts.

edit edit - A premium version with a nice case please

[bobrocks95]

Hmm, lots of clutter building up from people not reading through the thread...

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents for area scaling the way OBS implements it. This would make fractional resolutions (like 480p to 1080p) look "pixel-perfect" to the naked eye without significant blurring.

Pretty sure that's what the second scaling mode is, integer scaled then framed inside a 1080p window.

edit - Can we have an accessory for a scart extension of about a foot in length? I don't like plugging scarts directly into expensive boxes all the time it creates stress on the contacts.

Available plenty of places- retroaccess has one for example.

edit edit - A premium version with a nice case please

Already confirmed by Matt


Also Matt's post on VGP confirmed downscaling support which I've seen asked about a lot.

[neorichieb1971]

Hmm, lots of clutter building up from people not reading through the thread..

I can read through the whole thread but its jargon to me. I would have to sift through all the jargon to read about 3 lines of text that I am interested in.

But yeah I get your point.

[Fudoh]

Pretty sure that's what the second scaling mode is, integer scaled then framed inside a 1080p window.

it's actually the third mode. OBS doesn't restrict its scaling to integer factors. "Free scaling" will essentially be the same as what you get on the Analogue FPGA units or using the Pixellate shader in Retroarch. I'm sure we'll get the option to combine integer on one axis with free scaling on the other.

[Fudoh]

I got one more feature request:

I'd like to be able to pump a downscaled image back into the upscaling pipeline, so for example: feed a 480p image, dowscale to 240p and upscale that resulting signal to 4x/5x again (without having to chain two OSSC Pro units).

[maxtherabbit]

I got one more feature request:

I'd like to be able to pump a downscaled image back into the upscaling pipeline, so for example: feed a 480p image, dowscale to 240p and upscale that resulting signal to 4x/5x again (without having to chain two OSSC Pro units).

What's the use case for that where line doubling 480p to 960p with or without a 1080p frame wouldn't be as good or better?

[maxtherabbit]

Guys remember that the vast majority of SCART cabling has right angled connectors. Having the port on the side means the cable exits rear. Having a hefty case with a bulkhead connector will eliminate stress on the PCB too.

[Fudoh]

If you have a source that's running in 480i or 480p only, but the original content is 240p, then you can eliminate the scaling problems present in the first place. And you get access to 5x (full screen integer 1080p or 1200p). Or you can regain a more original look on those 480p-only CAVE conversions on the 360.

[JBC]

Dammit, I literally just got an OSSC. That's okay though, if it can make PS2 look better I'm in and this Kaico one can go to a friend.

[Lawfer]

If you have a source that's running in 480i or 480p only, but the original content is 240p, then you can eliminate the scaling problems present in the first place.

Like the GBA Consolizer you mean?

Dammit, I literally just got an OSSC. That's okay though, if it can make PS2 look better I'm in and this Kaico one can go to a friend.

The OSSC Pro probably won't be released until Q2 or Q3 from the looks of things, the Koryuu isn't even available yet either.

[DirkSwizzler]

And just wildly throwing per-unit cost interest around. I'd definitely be in for buying a unit at or below $400. And probably be in for up to double that if it were a compelling enough experience somehow.

You'd pay $800 for the upgraded OSSC Pro? I wouldn't.

Those were speculative numbers for 4K and "4K with amazing features only possible at 4K"

[nmalinoski]

Looks marvelous! Lack of 4K output in the initial hardware release is my only real complaint - that's my Number One Most Wanted feature in a new upscaler, and I'd happily pay more for it.

That said, if the new OSSC can handle the jittery sync that a few of my arcade boards put out so that I can finally sell off my Framemeister, I'll be happy.

I'm sure it's doable now, but I think the kind of FPGA that would make a 4K scaler feasible is still too expensive to make a 4K-capable OSSC a viable product.

Agreed. Obviously there's an R&D cost and a production cost.

I have no idea what the R&D cost would be, but I'd be interested in a Kickstarter to fund that.
And just wildly throwing per-unit cost interest around. I'd definitely be in for buying a unit at or below $400. And probably be in for up to double that if it were a compelling enough experience somehow.

Agreed; and I'd rather spend up to $400 on an OSSC Pro than a Framemeister, because I'd be able to install alternate firmwares and make modifications myself, which is not really an option for the Framemeister.

[nmalinoski]

With the expansion port on this thing, I also wonder if it would be possible to design an open-source auto-switcher add-on? Imagine being able to remove all of your switchers and auto-switching daisy-chains and instead connecting everything to the OSSC and having just that one device for all HDMI needs.

Not being a programmer/tech guy I have no idea if this is even possible, but if so, yeah this would be a must-have device.

Possible, absolutely. Having the OSSC aware of all inputs in your setup would allow it to have a 1:1 map of inputs to profiles; but that just sounds like replacing one set of generic switchers with a set of more-expensive, proprietary ones.

[mufunyo]

Pretty sure that's what the second scaling mode is, integer scaled then framed inside a 1080p window.

it's actually the third mode. OBS doesn't restrict its scaling to integer factors. "Free scaling" will essentially be the same as what you get on the Analogue FPGA units or using the Pixellate shader in Retroarch. I'm sure we'll get the option to combine integer on one axis with free scaling on the other.

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here. Area scaling is basically bilinear scaling without filtering; it's functionally the same as point scaling one factor too high, and then doing a bilinear resample back down to the target, except in one pass.

[orange808]

I got one more feature request:

I'd like to be able to pump a downscaled image back into the upscaling pipeline, so for example: feed a 480p image, dowscale to 240p and upscale that resulting signal to 4x/5x again (without having to chain two OSSC Pro units).

What's the use case for that where line doubling 480p to 960p with or without a 1080p frame wouldn't be as good or better?

Downscaling 480p to 240p, adding scanlines, and outputting 1080p would provide proper "integer scaled" 5x scaling from emulated games that output 240p "line doubled" to 480p. This would be particularly useful for PC's, because getting native 240p from the GPU is a hassle.

We can do this now with a chain of video processors, but it would nice to have an "all in one" solution with less latency.

I can't get an integer when I divide 1200 by 480, so it's better to start with 240 lines.

[nmalinoski]

I just want preset settings for each console. I'm just a gamer not a AV tinkerer.

There should be a mode for advance settings and one for lame people like me.

So please add a menu with a list of consoles, when you select that console by type and region it just does the best it can do.

This sort of thing is difficult to do, even if you have a console directly connected to the AV input on the OSSC.

The way I understand it, the OSSC would need to know the current the pixel clock in order to apply the proper settings for the ideal image, but the pixel clock can differ from game to game, and even from screen to screen within a given game; so, even if the OSSC knows which console is connected at any given time and can apply a profile for that console/input, it's not going to be able to apply settings that are appropriate for everything on that console.

I think it might possible to figure out the current pixel clock, and from which console, based on the framerate; but either no one has done the legwork, or it's simply not a reliable method. I think the only way you're going to get a reliable pixel clock is to use an internal mod to relay the pixel clock and other useful info to the OSSC (i2c?); and then you might as well just put in an HDMI mod at that point.

[Xyga]

Custom directional X & Y blur FTW.

But choose an integer axis then custom-resize the other (with a sleek directional interpolation) sounds even better.

*drool*


PS @neorichieb1971: about the ease of use, I don't understand the concern, honestly the current OSSC is already great on default settings for most consoles.
The custom timings part is mostly facultative. Personally I find some settings said to be ideal...producing an output that might be right on paper but looking way inadequate compared to the default generic modes, those custom timings and presets aren't necessarily better nor what we want. So you don't have to go full nerd chasing every imperfect pixel for the OSSC to produce a beautiful picture, plus if you don't you benefit from the crt-like scanlines settings without much adjustments left to do.

In any case I agree that a machine like that as well as the upcoming Pro, musn't be designed exclusively for nerds needs and fantasies, most of the good stuff it does, it's major features, should be easily achievable by anyone without having to go through a tedious learning curve.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Will you be able to double native 720p graphics and then add scanlines for 1440p displays with this? I'm thinking in 2D stuff for the PS3/Xbox360 (and their Windows counterparts) like Arc System Works fighters, but anything at this resolution natively can benefit from this, actually.

Could this be considered a feature request if it hasn't been contemplated yet, please?


The only issue I can forsee is when the graphics weren't 720p but "768p", which would exceed 1440 when doubled and therefore, it'd be pointless if a downscaling is later applied.

[Fudoh]

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here. Area scaling is basically bilinear scaling without filtering; it's functionally the same as point scaling one factor too high, and then doing a bilinear resample back down to the target, except in one pass.

same thing. I was just looking for practical examples (Analogue or Retroarch).

[BuckoA51]

Also Matt's post on VGP confirmed downscaling support which I've seen asked about a lot.

Please everyone remember downscaling, mister like functionality etc are possible, but will depend on people actually developing the code for them. Saying that the community usually steps up with these sorts of things.

[maxtherabbit]

I got one more feature request:

I'd like to be able to pump a downscaled image back into the upscaling pipeline, so for example: feed a 480p image, dowscale to 240p and upscale that resulting signal to 4x/5x again (without having to chain two OSSC Pro units).

What's the use case for that where line doubling 480p to 960p with or without a 1080p frame wouldn't be as good or better?

Downscaling 480p to 240p, adding scanlines, and outputting 1080p would provide proper "integer scaled" 5x scaling from emulated games that output 240p "line doubled" to 480p. This would be particularly useful for PC's, because getting native 240p from the GPU is a hassle.

We can do this now with a chain of video processors, but it would nice to have an "all in one" solution with less latency.

I can't get an integer when I divide 1200 by 480, so it's better to start with 240 lines.

I guess that makes sense if you use artificial scanlines. I hate them personally so to me 480p x2 would be the exact same thing as 240p x4