OSSC Pro

[Smashbro29]

Will this model play nicer with capture cards like the framemeister? If not, may I suggest something small one could add to their video chain that could "normalize" refresh rate to a capture card?

Also, in response to Fudo's de-interlacing claim, I totally get that but isn't 480i kind of a niche use case?

[Dochartaigh]

Also, in response to Fudo's de-interlacing claim, I totally get that but isn't 480i kind of a niche use case?

No. To this day the PS2 is STILL the best selling of all time, most sold, video game console in existence. The vast majority of it's library is in 480i, so it's anything but niche.

[Smashbro29]

Also, in response to Fudo's de-interlacing claim, I totally get that but isn't 480i kind of a niche use case?

No. To this day the PS2 is STILL the best selling of all time, most sold, video game console in existence. The vast majority of it's library is in 480i, so it's anything but niche.

Yes but can't you force 480p on it most of the time?

[MrMistermister]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know only about half of games for the PS2 support 480p. That isn't the case for Xbox and GameCube though, where the majority of games do support it I think.

I've heard it's possible to software mod your PS2 to force 480p even on games that don't support it, but I haven't done it myself.

[Fudoh]

Will this model play nicer with capture cards like the framemeister?

of course. This was outlined by Marqs on page one of this thread already.

The percentage of titles on the PS2 supporting 480p isn't this big. Maybe 15% and maybe you can find another 15% that you can force into 480p with highly varying results. This still leaves a bunchload of titles that require external processing.

[Dochartaigh]

Yes but can't you force 480p on it most of the time?

I've heard it's possible to software mod your PS2 to force 480p even on games that don't support it, but I haven't done it myself.

It's a common myth I read left and right whenever people mention 480p on the PS2 (that it can work most of the time and/or is easy, and/or actually works properly...). I looked into this years ago (and tried it out on my 3x hacked PS2's) so don't quote me, but you CAN technically force a bunch of games into 480p... and it's a PITA. Certain versions of GSM only work with certain games so you have to have multiple versions of GSM installed. One version might not work with the exact ISO of a game you have and you have to download another and like match up MD5 checksums and such... You also have to know the exact options you have to turn on/off to make a certain game run (again, with the exact version of the game which runs on an exact version of GSM). You will then have fun when the PS2 most likely locks-up whenever it plays a certain flavor of a super common FMV (video) encoding... That's the BIG fault there if you want movies in your game to follow along with the storyline... I'm probably making it sound harder than it is, but that was what I remember of my ~20 or so hour ideal over a couple weeks trying to get this to work.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know only about half of games for the PS2 support 480p. That isn't the case for Xbox and GameCube though, where the majority of games do support it I think.

I counted once. It was something like 230 games in 480p or ~10% of the entire PS2 library - it's really quite rare, and if you start looking at what those games actually are, things like AAA titles in 480p become kinda unicorns (there's a bunch still, just a REALLY low percentage). End point: YES, we REALLY need good 480i deinterlacing and upscaling for the OSSC Pro!

[MrMistermister]

That makes sense. Thanks for correcting that, I figured I didn't understand the situation completely.

[ZellSF]

It's a common myth I read left and right whenever people mention 480p on the PS2 (that it can work most of the time and/or is easy, and/or actually works properly...). I looked into this years ago (and tried it out on my 3x hacked PS2's) so don't quote me, but you CAN technically force a bunch of games into 480p... and it's a PITA. Certain versions of GSM only work with certain games so you have to have multiple versions of GSM installed. One version might not work with the exact ISO of a game you have and you have to download another and like match up MD5 checksums and such... You also have to know the exact options you have to turn on/off to make a certain game run (again, with the exact version of the game which runs on an exact version of GSM). You will then have fun when the PS2 most likely locks-up whenever it plays a certain flavor of a super common FMV (video) encoding... That's the BIG fault there if you want movies in your game to follow along with the storyline... I'm probably making it sound harder than it is, but that was what I remember of my ~20 or so hour ideal over a couple weeks trying to get this to work.

You're definitively making it sound harder than it is.

Which version of GSM you have rarely makes a difference, and when there's differences between versions of games it's usually just NTSC/PAL, no need to compare checksums as long as you know which region game you have.

As for knowing the exact options to run with, that's also inaccurate because it's plural; GSM has only one option that's relevant for compatibility (skip FMVs). It's true that quite a few games need that option.

It's also true that quite a few games don't work, but it's worth trying if your display device has bad 480i handling.

Setting up a PS2 that hasn't been used for it earlier to run homebrew is much more painful than testing the games you want to play with GSM once.

[Speedy]

I've also found that it's incredibly rare that GSM successfully can force a 480i game to run at 480p - rare enough that it's more of a hassle for me than it's worth.

It's for this reason that I exclusively play PS2 on a CRT still, but I'm always hopeful that a device will come along like the Framemeister and have excellent low-lag de-interlacing to accommodate PS2 on digital displays.

[ZellSF]

I've also found that it's incredibly rare that GSM successfully can force a 480i game to run at 480p - rare enough that it's more of a hassle for me than it's worth.

It's for this reason that I exclusively play PS2 on a CRT still, but I'm always hopeful that a device will come along like the Framemeister and have excellent low-lag de-interlacing to accommodate PS2 on digital displays.

"Incredibly rare" sounds like it will almost never work. That's not the case:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Rm/pubhtml

The XRGB-mini is also already pretty close to ideal for deinterlacing. What sort of improvements are you hoping for? Only things I can think of is half a frame of input lag and less noise, but those would be pretty insignificant improvements.

[Kez]

That list is far from comprehensive. I have experimented with GSM a fair bit and decided it isn't worth the hassle (for me). Even games that are purported to work often end up with weird aspect ratios or other problems, such as messed up menus or cut scenes.. and sometimes these problems can take a while to become apparent. I have also settled on using a CRT mostly for PS2, I had an XRGB Mini for a couple years but I was only using it for PS2 and in the end I decided I'd rather just have the money. I have a couple other deinterlacing options which are not terrible, like the DVDO Edge and even my TV's built in deinterlacing. Still do miss the FM from time to time, looking forward to seeing how OSSC Pro's deinterlacing performs as I will almost certainly be picking one up at launch.

[ZellSF]

That list is far from comprehensive.

I didn't say that, but if you look at that list you will have a better representation of the % of games that work than "Incredibly rare" would imply.

Even games that are purported to work often end up with weird aspect ratios

If your TV is set to 16:9 those games will be very close to 4:3. PC monitor owners often don't have that option though.

Obviously, it's a non-issue for anyone who owns a dedicated scaler device (or a TV with really good AR controls).

[bobrocks95]

That list is far from comprehensive.

I didn't say that, but if you look at that list you will have a better representation of the % of games that work than "Incredibly rare" would imply.

Even games that are purported to work often end up with weird aspect ratios

If your TV is set to 16:9 those games will be very close to 4:3. PC monitor owners often don't have that option though.

Obviously, it's a non-issue for anyone who owns a dedicated scaler device (or a TV with really good AR controls).

I've seen GSM cut pixels off of the output framebuffer, and give *very* strange aspect ratios that couldn't be corrected with a simple 16:9 switch.

[Gunstar]

GBS-Control has a damn fine motion adaptive deinterlace

any videos of that available online?

NoAffinity has some vids on his channel. I think maybe some of the examples are recorded using an older version of GBS Control? as I don't see the same degree of sawtooth artefacts with current builds however this 480i Capcom vs Snk 2 clip he recorded is indicative of the quality I see.

[ZellSF]

That list is far from comprehensive.

I didn't say that, but if you look at that list you will have a better representation of the % of games that work than "Incredibly rare" would imply.

Even games that are purported to work often end up with weird aspect ratios

If your TV is set to 16:9 those games will be very close to 4:3. PC monitor owners often don't have that option though.

Obviously, it's a non-issue for anyone who owns a dedicated scaler device (or a TV with really good AR controls).

I've seen GSM cut pixels off of the output framebuffer, and give *very* strange aspect ratios that couldn't be corrected with a simple 16:9 switch.

Which games?

[bobrocks95]

Which games?

Kingdom Hearts and Odin Sphere are two I recall.

[ZellSF]

Which games?

Kingdom Hearts and Odin Sphere are two I recall.

From memory, Kingdom Hearts' aspect ratio is OK with GSM and 16:9 mode, don't need to rely on memory for Odin Sphere though: http://u.cubeupload.com/ZellSF/IMG20200407171301.jpg
That's very close to 4:3 (the image is cut off because I didn't bother with vertical alignment).

Not that anyone should play that today, considering the excellent remaster. I forgot how painful loading times from disc was for that game.

[RocketBelt]

480p on PS2 is very hit and miss.
I've looked into this a lot - its not like a progressive frame is tucked away somewhere just waiting to be output - most PS2 games just render fields. So forcing them through GSM just gets you a line-doubled field i.e. half resolution.
On some games GSM does work really well, like Wipeout Pulse, but these are the exception. And this is why on the internet you get people saying 'just use GSM' because when it works, its great. But that's no good when the majority of your favourite games come out of it looking like smashed glass.
Very often, you need a good deinterlacer.

[ZellSF]

I just feel like saying this whenever Wipeout Pulse gets brought up: be careful with that game. It has a really nasty save bug that can supposedly in some cases even wipe out other saves.

most PS2 games just render fields

The spreadsheet I linked to indicates otherwise. Even if you assume all games that don't boot on GSM were field rendered games, it seems "half PS2 games just render fields" would be more accurate.

[tongshadow]

I've also found that it's incredibly rare that GSM successfully can force a 480i game to run at 480p - rare enough that it's more of a hassle for me than it's worth.

It's for this reason that I exclusively play PS2 on a CRT still, but I'm always hopeful that a device will come along like the Framemeister and have excellent low-lag de-interlacing to accommodate PS2 on digital displays.

Sadly its hard to make the PS2 look good on modern displays, much like the N64. Not only because of 480i, but the overall presentation of most games was meant to have better cohesion with a standard definition CRT TV. Not even PC CRTs can make the PS2 look as good as an SDTV, in my experience.

And yes, forced 480p on the PS2 is too spotty. I can take a picture of my games on OPL and I assure around 20% of them will work properly when forced.

[Speedy]

The XRGB-mini is also already pretty close to ideal for deinterlacing. What sort of improvements are you hoping for? Only things I can think of is half a frame of input lag and less noise, but those would be pretty insignificant improvements.

I think the biggest improvement that I'd like to see is for them to not be out of production.

[matt]

How can the XRGB2 possibly do this without a frame buffer? I had the XRGB3 in my setup for years (always in B1 mode) and never had no sync drops on resolution change. Actually the only device I've seen do this is the RetroTINK 2x and then only on a handful of older Panasonic TVs.

My XRGB2+ is hooked up to an ASUS VG245H monitor through the VGA input. The transition from 240p to 480i is seamless with no frame drops at all. It worked the same on a cheap "AOC" brand monitor that I use with my PC (also VGA input) and on the old CRT that I had years ago.

I've never tried running it through an HDMI converter, which could make a difference.

[Steddyman]

I have a regular OSSC and use it daily, it's a great product. However, it really needs to have composite and s-video inputs to be a valid all-in-one solution.

Today I have to use a Retrotink 2X in concert with the OSSC for my older computers like the C64. This is a pain in the but because the Retrotink mode has to be toggled every time I switch on the C64 before the OSSC recognises the 312p signal.

Is the OSSC firmware Open Source? If it is, I'd love to take a look at this problem. The signal it fails to lock onto at boot is 312p @ 15.63 Khz from a PAL C64. The OSSC works fine if I switch the Retrotink to a line doubler mode then switch it back to the same 312p signal it wouldn't display before. The Retrotink buttons are tiny and a pita to get too, so this is a big deal.

Add analogue inputs to the Pro and you have a legitimate competitor to the Framemeister.

[Konsolkongen]

It says in the first post that the GPIO connector of the OSSC Pro could be used to add additional composite and s-video ports.

Most of us who care enough about video quality to buy something like this will already be using RGB or better on all of our devices. I don't see the need to include support for such lossy formats. Better to make this an optional extra for those who need it, instead of everyone paying for something most will never use.

[fernan1234]

RGB or better

What's better than RGB

I don't see the need to include support for such lossy formats.

Plenty of devices don't output RGB, but S-video at best, and don't have mods available for anything better. One of the most popular systems ever, the NES, only does composite at best without mods. And even when mods are available many people like to keep their systems stock. I don't see the OSSC or even the Pro as a videophile device necessarily, but rather as the best way to use old analogue signals on modern displays.

But yeah, I don't see the Pro having built-in CBVS/YC inputs, though I'd personally appreciate them.

[Shelcoof]

It says in the first post that the GPIO connector of the OSSC Pro could be used to add additional composite and s-video ports.

Most of us who care enough about video quality to buy something like this will already be using RGB or better on all of our devices. I don't see the need to include support for such lossy formats. Better to make this an optional extra for those who need it, instead of everyone paying for something most will never use.

You already can get the Koryuee a secondary Device for the OSSC for S-Video and Composite if you want it.

Its actually a great idea to have it as an add on where those who don't want it don't have to pay for it.

[ldeveraux]

This device will likely be >2x the cost of the original OSSC and you're concerned with an optional input? Judging from the past few pages most people would rather use that GPIO for VGA output instead.

[Konsolkongen]

RGB or better

What's better than RGB

With exception of the PS2, component is the only option for 480p or higher on other consoles. VGA on Dreamcast is 480p too. There is also HDMI although that requires modding of most systems. HDMI into the OSSC Pro might seem redundant, but I'll be doing that for sure with my GameCube and Wii for 960p linedoubling, or even 1440p linetripling

I think it's great that you can add these inputs to the Pro. And your point about keeping the systems stock is fair.

[maxtherabbit]

RGB or better

What's better than RGB

VGA on Dreamcast is 480p too.

VGA is RGB, just with separate syncs

[Konsolkongen]

RGBS then, you know what I meant:D