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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:12 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
Unless the OSSC Pro ever gets any complex CRT shaders, I sort of doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a worst case 1440p>2160p scale and a 1440p native scale.


One problem I can see is that 1440p does not evenly scale to 2160. At 2x you would be at 2880p. Maybe my logic is too simple but if your 4K panel does a proper job internal scaling, I would think you would better off feeding it a 3x 720 signal and hoping it applies a proper 3x scale to 2160.

I don’t mind being wrong but I would love to hear why and how a 2160 image could properly scale a 6x signal.

Here's an integer scaled image:
Image
Here's a non-integer scaled one:
Image
Do you really think there's a difference there worth caring about?


I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:19 pm 


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Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:50 pm 


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Hoagtech wrote:
I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars


Errm, you mean pillarboxing? Those are because you're displaying 4:3 games on a 16:9 display, it has nothing to do with resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:18 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars


Errm, you mean pillarboxing? Those are because you're displaying 4:3 games on a 16:9 display, it has nothing to do with resolution.


I was referring to letterboxing. An example for 1080p (switchin lanes) would be a 240 at 4x fitting into a 960 frame creating letterboxing. Granted a 224 image on 6x 1440 will still have small letterboxing.

I’m wondering how uneven internal scaling 1440>2160 will effect letterboxing?

I’m sure it will be set dependent but wanted to know if this will be an issue on 4K sets.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:24 pm 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.

There's very little difference TV scaling can do with 1440p>2160 scaling of 240p>1440p integer scaled material.
Hoagtech wrote:
I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars

Then your plan to get a 1440 display to do integer scaling is flawed to start with. You can't for example integer scale SNES games (256x224) to 1440p.

OSSC will support non-integer scaling, but for a 2160p display this means two interpolated scaling passes. A little more room for things to go wrong if you go that route, but it will probably be fine.

One option is to make the OSSC output integer scaled content, and make your TV scale to get rid of black bars. What options you have here is of course dependent on your TV. Most TVs have a overscan option, but not all of them are very flexible.

Another option is something the OSSC can already do. 240x5 in a 1080p output. That gives you about 10% overscan, which is a bit much, but you'll get integer scaling for the first pass and no black bars. Letting your TV scale 1080p>2160p is quite a bit worse than 1440p>2160p though.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:35 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.


True, but you bypass the display scaler and get pretty good results--without much effort. The HDFury Linker did a nice job when I tried it. I had some pics somewhere on my old Vizio. It's inexpensive and doesn't add measurable latency.

I couldn't find any difference in sharpness between:
240p>OSSC line5x > DVDO vp50pro 1080p > HDFury Linker 4k > LG C9
* versus *
240p>OSSC line5x > LG C9

The DVDO has to be there because the HDFury Linker will not accept the OSSC line5x signal. The DVDO introduces minor ringing and that's unavoidable, but soon we won't need a DVDO. (The Linker gladly accepts odd refresh rates, though.)

In the future, the Retrotink5x or the OSSC Pro will output a proper standard 1080p. So, if you're okay with how line5x looks on your C9 (and I assume most people are happy), there's already an inexpensive solution.

The only better options are very expensive full featured 4k video processors that add a full frame of lag. An Extron DSC HD HD 4k A is reasonably inexpensive brand new, if you're feeling picky. But, inexpensive for a brand new pro video scaler is a relative term--because it costs thousands of pounds/euro/dollars. That's a full frame of lag, too. It's not something most people will want.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:29 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
Then your plan to get a 1440 display to do integer scaling is flawed to start with. You can't for example integer scale SNES games (256x224) to 1440p.


I stated above that 224 content would be slightly letterboxed. The supported 240 titles would have no letterboxing.

I can see the pixel array in 4k individually to the naked eye on my 4k Sony.

I understand how 8,294,400 pixels would soften the non integer scaling but it would not be in square array alignment and would cause colors and luma to stretch into their neighbors and square pixels to become rectangles not to mention uneven transition during scrolling.

How is using the maximum output from the Pro in your native resolution the same as uneven integer scaling? I have a bad gut feeling about it..

Why are the fears subsided by confidence in interpolation post uneven interger scaling?

Am I missing something obvious here?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:49 pm 



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If you have a 4K TV can't you just test rather than ask questions? Find a native resolution 240p screenshot, integer scale it 6x, then try basically any scaling method to get it to 2160p and see if you find the difference notable.

Edit: obviously the comparison should be with a 9x integer scaled shot.

But that's basically what I've already posted: a comparison of integer scaling vs 6x + non integer scaling, and you said you can't tell the difference, so I don't see any basis for your "bad gut feeling".


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:07 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
XSync-1 wrote:
Is there a way to block this pseudo-intellectual geek, so I don't have to read anymore of his comments?


Maybe it's better to not keep calling other people pseudo intellectuals after you're the guy who seems to think that imperial Japan (and even WWII) was in the 1970s...

But anyway, if you want you can easily block any user that annoys you via this page: ucp.php?mode=logout

Lol, When did I say imperial Japan was in the 1970s?

Weren't you the guy who was playing the race card on behalf of the CCP. Get out of here, you're pathetic.


Last edited by XSync-1 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:08 am 


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Ms. Tea wrote:
XSync-1 wrote:
Covidinese government


Isn't it funny how people who insist they have totally normal concerns descend into conspiracy theories the second they get the chance to expand on them?

Come on, man. At least recognize that that's not going to help your case that you're taking a principled stand for human rights.

Lol, are you kidding me? It's not a conspiracy theory. Everyone knows covid came from wuhan, china.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:10 am 


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[/quote]

So you think this is the right place for this type of discussion?

Im ignorant yet you claim this is not a campaign? This is the fucking definition of a campaign, homie. Trying to claim its not a campaign is ignorant.

Whats also ignorant is you comparing this project to a governments agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 1.) Governments dont typically sell products to end consumers and 2.) Such agreements by governments usually involve subsidies for the businesses they affect. Are you going to subsidize this for Marqs so he doesnt have to raise the price of the unit and potentially cripple his sales? This is a niche, hobbyist project. A project that would very likely end up costing 50% or more should it be produced somewhere else. For an already ~$300+ unit, that would make it a non-starter for most people. Doing that to "take a stand" and all but killing your already limited sales would be extremely ignorant.

If it could be accomplished for only ~10-20% more cost, I think most people, including myself, would be OK with it. Do you honestly think thats going to be the case?[/quote]

Yes it is the right place. It's as good a place as any to talk about this. Once again, a lot of people here are willing to pay more. Plus, chinese slave labor doesn't produce the best quality products anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:23 am 


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@x-sync


Who knows you could be right..

As soon as I heard “Government export subsidies” while I was looking forward to specs on the OSSC pro, you ended up boring the fuck out of me.

Take your shit outside to: “off topic discussions” so we can have more opinions about the device itself.

Maybe send Marqs a PM instead of subjecting people interested in this project.

And like others have said. You can go for a huge demographic instead of attacking a retro hobby project before its fruition.

Good luck with your quest elsewhere freedom fighter...
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Last edited by Hoagtech on Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:23 am 


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Triple post. Damn phone..
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Last edited by Hoagtech on Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:24 am 


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Double post.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:44 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
@x-sync


Who knows you could be right..

As soon as I heard “Government export subsidies” while I was looking forward to specs on the OSSC pro, you ended up boring the fuck out of me.

Take your shit outside to: “off topic discussions” so we can have more opinions about the device itself.

Maybe send Marqs a PM instead of subjecting people interested in this project.

And like others have said. You can go for a huge demographic instead of attacking a retro hobby project before its fruition.

Good luck with your quest elsewhere freedom fighter...


Nobody's attacking any project. We all want the device to come out. We care where it comes from and who's making it. We don't want to contribute to genocide and slavery. This is the OSSC Pro forum, there's no where better to talk about this.

If I'm selling you meat from animals that were grass fed free range and happy in their lives, would you rather buy that, or would you prefer meat from animals that were tortured, kept in dark cramped rooms with shit all over the floor, and fed the worst type of animal feed?

The functionality of the device is not the one thing that matters about it. Where it comes from and how it was produced matters too, and that may impact the quality as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:25 pm 



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XSync-1 wrote:
Lol, When did I say imperial Japan was in the 1970s?


Here, bolded the key parts to make it easier for you:

XSync-1 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
All of the PCB assembly services I've used through work (and we get boards made multiple times a year) send boards to China for any hand work. Many of the components are made in China. It's practically impossible to avoid China in the electronics industry at this point.

This is actually just like the demonization of Japan and anything Japanese in the 1970s. And it has happened countless times before, whenever the political and economic interests of the West/self feel threatened by an "oriental" other.


Everyone knows about the Uighur concentration camps in xinjiang (Turkestan). Quit trying to play the race card, and you're making 100% false comparisons with WWII imperial Japan and modern day communist china. If a threat to western economic interests is enough motivation for people to quit dealing with the repressive and genocidal Covidinese government, then that's just fine with me. I'll pay Marqs extra any day of the week for "Made in " almost any country other than china. He could use Taiwan like Micomsoft did. I'm sure others on here would pay a little more for that as well. I'm not alone.


There. Putting that aside as it hardly matters now, just take a moment to look at what you're doing here. You came into the topic of a beloved open source hobby project with a virtuous suggestion that, giving the benefit of the doubt, can be based on a good intention, but presented terribly with zero EQ. And yet marqs quickly, directly, cordially, and in full earnest gave you an answer. And yet you still keep coming back to stir up the topic just because apparently marqs' answer was not good enough for you...

You think you can see a lot of what is wrong out there with the world and want to change it, but can you see what's wrong within yourself?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:39 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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Can you people shut the fuck up and talk about the OSSC Pro?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:53 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1316
ldeveraux wrote:
Can you people shut the fuck up and talk about the OSSC Pro?


Sorry, guess I'm not helping either by replying to him. At this point it has to be trolling and it will continue, and with lack of mods here the best thing to do is just ignore his posts from now on.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:46 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
XSync-1 wrote:
Lol, When did I say imperial Japan was in the 1970s?


Here, bolded the key parts to make it easier for you:

XSync-1 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
All of the PCB assembly services I've used through work (and we get boards made multiple times a year) send boards to China for any hand work. Many of the components are made in China. It's practically impossible to avoid China in the electronics industry at this point.

This is actually just like the demonization of Japan and anything Japanese in the 1970s. And it has happened countless times before, whenever the political and economic interests of the West/self feel threatened by an "oriental" other.


Everyone knows about the Uighur concentration camps in xinjiang (Turkestan). Quit trying to play the race card, and you're making 100% false comparisons with WWII imperial Japan and modern day communist china. If a threat to western economic interests is enough motivation for people to quit dealing with the repressive and genocidal Covidinese government, then that's just fine with me. I'll pay Marqs extra any day of the week for "Made in " almost any country other than china. He could use Taiwan like Micomsoft did. I'm sure others on here would pay a little more for that as well. I'm not alone.


There. Putting that aside as it hardly matters now, just take a moment to look at what you're doing here. You came into the topic of a beloved open source hobby project with a virtuous suggestion that, giving the benefit of the doubt, can be based on a good intention, but presented terribly with zero EQ. And yet marqs quickly, directly, cordially, and in full earnest gave you an answer. And yet you still keep coming back to stir up the topic just because apparently marqs' answer was not good enough for you...

You think you can see a lot of what is wrong out there with the world and want to change it, but can you see what's wrong within yourself?



Lol, are you kidding me? That's your quote, not mine. You're pathetic, dude. Complete trash. "This is actually just like the demonization of Japan and anything Japanese in the 1970s". Those are your words you stupid fuck, not mine! Fucking pathetic.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:48 am 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Can you people shut the fuck up and talk about the OSSC Pro?


This retard fernan just accused me of saying something that he said, he even quoted himself and said that it was me. He's retarded and needs to shut the fuck up, not me.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:49 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Can you people shut the fuck up and talk about the OSSC Pro?


Sorry, guess I'm not helping either by replying to him. At this point it has to be trolling and it will continue, and with lack of mods here the best thing to do is just ignore his posts from now on.

You're a troll, and a retard to boot. You're the one who said imperial Japan existed during the 70s, then you accused me of saying it, you even quoted yourself saying it and said it was me. You're a fucking loser.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:50 am 


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Lol, everyone look how dumb fernan is. He quoted himself and said that it was me who said this stupid shit statement. He's suffering from a mental illness. I even bolded the part in question. This guy is befuddled.

Quote:
fernan1234 wrote:
All of the PCB assembly services I've used through work (and we get boards made multiple times a year) send boards to China for any hand work. Many of the components are made in China. It's practically impossible to avoid China in the electronics industry at this point.

This is actually just like the demonization of Japan and anything Japanese in the 1970s. And it has happened countless times before, whenever the political and economic interests of the West/self feel threatened by an "oriental" other.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:12 am 


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Man you need to stop.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:37 am 



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Protip: when trolling you need to make the other party more invested than you are.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:34 am 



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What do you guys think of the OSSC Pro ffs?? This with HDMI input or RT5x? Discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:16 pm 



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I don't think we know anything interesting about anything to compare them except input/output ports.

I don't think anyone should buy either without waiting for reviews. Though this is probably going to be a "Do as I say, not as I do" situation.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:18 pm 


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Quote:
What an excellent response. I don't want to seem like I'm judging Marqs, but when I contacted Videogameperfection to buy an original OSSC, they told me that it was made in china and gave me a bad attitude about wanting one made in a different country. I didn't buy one from them at all. I just get the impression that Videogameperfection doesn't see anything wrong with chinese slave labor and I wanted to say something about it here.


We have no reason to believe the OSSC or the Pro are being made in factories associated with slave labour. I mean okay I don't have the means to go over and inspect it myself.

We are exploring both EU and China manufacturing options for the Pro. We would have looked at US manufacturing too but at the time the US wasn't looking too stable either.

I don't recall "giving you a bad attitude" but I can't just magically spin up a production company here in the EU for a handful of people willing to spend many times more on a unit. Plus, as our investigations have shown this far, companies in the EU may just be outsourcing part or all the production to China anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:21 pm 



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Does this forum have mods? Because this thread sure could use one.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:37 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
What an excellent response. I don't want to seem like I'm judging Marqs, but when I contacted Videogameperfection to buy an original OSSC, they told me that it was made in china and gave me a bad attitude about wanting one made in a different country. I didn't buy one from them at all. I just get the impression that Videogameperfection doesn't see anything wrong with chinese slave labor and I wanted to say something about it here.


We have no reason to believe the OSSC or the Pro are being made in factories associated with slave labour. I mean okay I don't have the means to go over and inspect it myself.

We are exploring both EU and China manufacturing options for the Pro. We would have looked at US manufacturing too but at the time the US wasn't looking too stable either.

I don't recall "giving you a bad attitude" but I can't just magically spin up a production company here in the EU for a handful of people willing to spend many times more on a unit. Plus, as our investigations have shown this far, companies in the EU may just be outsourcing part or all the production to China anyway.
Thank you bucko. Hopefully this nonsense can stop and we can discuss what's really important here: 1080i output since Mike Chi ridiculed people on Twitter for asking about it on the retrotink 5x. "No 1080i, no buy" is a campaign slogan I can get behind.

As for X-Sync while I do agree with some of your points and I myself would rather have the OSSC Pro made in another location, marqs already addressed this earlier and you still keep yammering about it.
Make another topic if you feel that's going to make a difference, but insulting others who come to hardware forum to discuss the capabilities of an unreleased product doesn't help the situation.

A bad attitude will get you nowhere no matter how altruistic you feel. I hope you find the answers you seek elsewhere, as you seem to ignore the ones given in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
What do you guys think of the OSSC Pro ffs?? This with HDMI input or RT5x? Discuss.


Unless a GCVideo alternative with full upscaling features *that is still external and cheap* comes out, I'd rather upgrade my scaler than pay for an expensive internal mod. So HDMI is a must for me.

There's also the PixelFX scaler coming soon too! It will be a crowded market and hard to decide before reviews are out on all 3.


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