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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:28 am 



Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 238
marqs wrote:
I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.

Could 720p processing eventually be supported through one of these modes?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:46 pm 


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matt wrote:
the audio lines are very thin (28 gauge IIRC) and are bundled together with the sync and data lines

:shock:

disgusting


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:47 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 272
Location: St Louis, IL, USA
New question, and I apologize if this was answered in one page prior (maybe I even asked this myself, I'm getting old, can't remember shit), as far as the rotation goes...

Will it have the ability to rotate the image both directions (ie clockwise and counter clockwise)? The reason this is important is because of those older PCBs that don't have the modern rotation direction.

EDIT: and speaking of options, what about screen flip? This is something that others on here have talked about using to bring new life into games by making them feel new. Obviously it would need flip and rotate together.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:14 pm 


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There is no technical reason to offer one option, but not the other, so I'm absolutely sure that all viable options will be available eventually.

And yes, mirroring vertically scrolling games is still awesome. You'll be surprised on how fresh any title plays once mirrored.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:05 am 


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Posts: 664
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Guspaz wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=556&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgomBBhDXARIsAFNyUqO_-u2FK0_9nOhT5zQPzijr2N1hglVUj23iF_SqjITga6_GDjp5m-YaAgCKEALw_wcB

Image

These + console5.com = a great solution for DIY DE-15 cables, btw ;)


Warning: I have bought dozens of these things for a convention and they are both very thick/stiff *and* suffer from really bad interference problems (with the audio). I don't know what kind of shielding they have inside (Monoprice provides zero information and I've never cut one open), but it's clear that at least the audio is unshielded. Unreliable/flakey too. Now, I was dealing with lengths like 25/50/100ft so maybe the shorter ones won't have issues, but if you're dealing with shorter runs, then what's the point of the combined cable in the first place? Just run the audio separately.


I personally just use a few 3 foot ones with a 4:4 VGA matrix (with 3.5mm audio jacks and no dang block terminals) and have no audio issues - the matrix handles the audio well, and the audio line that outputs to my speakers isn’t from one of these cables. Can’t speak on any that are over 3 feet, but I’m plenty content with the 3 footers. I got a pack of three for ~$15 with free shipping the other month so I said “why not”
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:28 am 


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Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:02 am 



Joined: 21 Feb 2020
Posts: 6
marqs wrote:
Harrumph wrote:
I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.


Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:22 pm 


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Posts: 1137
TyMiles2012 wrote:
marqs wrote:
Harrumph wrote:
I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.


Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.


Line tripled 480p using two lines per game line and 1 line as a blank or black scanline would look fantastic on a 1440p TV or monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:49 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
Possibly a weird question but would it be possible to have multi-channel analogue audio inputs via the gpio?

It could then be combined with either the component or rgbhv inputs.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:08 pm 


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Posts: 839
Location: Finland
kitty666cats wrote:
Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
It's a shame that one is using LM1881 sync stripper instead of a more modern sync separator like ISL59885 which could generate H+V sync.
TyMiles2012 wrote:
Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.
Majority of 4:3 480p games are 640x480 which is easily integer multiplied to 1920x1440. Different widths can be supported by tweaking sampling or alternatively polyphase scaling can be just used for X & Y which is usually better fit for 3D games anyway.
McKie1 wrote:
Possibly a weird question but would it be possible to have multi-channel analogue audio inputs via the gpio?

It could then be combined with either the component or rgbhv inputs.
One could design an expansion card with analog audio inputs and appropiate ADC(s), but only 1 out 4 I2S data signals is routed from FPGA to HDMI TX (rest are RX->TX directy) due to IO pin limitations. It means that non-bitstream multichannel audio can only be used with HDMI sources, but I don't see many use cases for analog multichannel inputs aside perhaps retro PCs. Basic stereo sound can be still copied to back channels (5.1 / 7.1 matrixes) with all sources.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:44 pm 


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marqs wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
It's a shame that one is using LM1881 sync stripper instead of a more modern sync separator like ISL59885 which could generate H+V sync.



They are basically pin compatible. As far as I can tell, all you would have to do is swap the chips and bodge the H Sync line to the DE-15.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:01 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1926
On the topic of multichannel input, I don't remember seeing specifics about the TOSLINK jack--is it an input or an output?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am 



Joined: 23 Feb 2021
Posts: 1
Correct if I am wrong but the release date is set for 2021?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:34 pm 



Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 3
Hi,
Is it confirmed that the Pro will have a built-in Dejitter please? The release date will be announced soon?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:52 pm 


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What do you mean by a dejitter? If you're referring to the NES/SNES mod, that was more an issue due to a quirk in the original OSSC hardware, so likely it won't even be needed this time around.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
marqs wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
It's a shame that one is using LM1881 sync stripper instead of a more modern sync separator like ISL59885 which could generate H+V sync.
TyMiles2012 wrote:
Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.
Majority of 4:3 480p games are 640x480 which is easily integer multiplied to 1920x1440. Different widths can be supported by tweaking sampling or alternatively polyphase scaling can be just used for X & Y which is usually better fit for 3D games anyway.
McKie1 wrote:
Possibly a weird question but would it be possible to have multi-channel analogue audio inputs via the gpio?

It could then be combined with either the component or rgbhv inputs.
One could design an expansion card with analog audio inputs and appropiate ADC(s), but only 1 out 4 I2S data signals is routed from FPGA to HDMI TX (rest are RX->TX directy) due to IO pin limitations. It means that non-bitstream multichannel audio can only be used with HDMI sources, but I don't see many use cases for analog multichannel inputs aside perhaps retro PCs. Basic stereo sound can be still copied to back channels (5.1 / 7.1 matrixes) with all sources.


Thank you Marqs for the feedback.

My specific connection is probably unusual but was planning on connecting our Hi-Vision Laserdisc player from the muse box with the rgbhv (d-sub) and the 5.0 multi-channel audio. Otherwise was going to just do as you suggested and only use the two front channels.

Had to ask ;)

Thank you again for an amazing project. Don't laugh but with our system we sadly need four of these :(

Now which organ to sell. lol


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:54 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1200
Thank you marqs for all the great info and replies here. I would like to ask about 1080i processing on the OSSC Pro.

I believe you have mentioned that 1080i will be supported as a scaled output, and I assume it will also be supported as an input. I am wondering if the OSSC Pro can support a similar presentation of HD interlaced video as some professional monitors like Sony's, which essentially perform the same trick that the OSSC does already for SD interlace sources with a progressive output using bob combined with scanlines, which is both faster than other deinterlacing and more CRT-like in appearance. This is how Sony describes it in advertising material:

Image

There is a pretty large amount of video content from broadcast and blurays of film, TV, music, animation, and various other content that is native 1080i and, albeit subjectively, is best represented in its original interlaced appearance, which is why Sony continues to advertise it even on its latest broadcast monitor. Enabling this feature on the OSSC Pro would bring its advantages to commercial TV sets and monitors that do not have it built in like Sony's pro monitors (and are significantly less expensive). The output signal would be 1080p and thus not subject to additional I/P conversion (and lag) on the display side.


Last edited by fernan1234 on Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:08 pm 


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Location: Germany
Do you have any reson to believe that alternating scanlines for 1080i input signals won't be available, when they have been available on the original OSSC for SD signals for years?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:14 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 839
Location: Finland
nmalinoski wrote:
On the topic of multichannel input, I don't remember seeing specifics about the TOSLINK jack--is it an input or an output?
It's an input as shown in the OP block diagram.

Lelautre wrote:
Hi,
Is it confirmed that the Pro will have a built-in Dejitter please? The release date will be announced soon?
The release date will be announced once HW is final and we've found a manufacturer that meets our quality/cost requirements. Assuming you're referring to snes_dejitter, it's not something you can build into downstream processor, but the video frontend in OSSC Pro is much more resilient to irregular sync such as SNES is producing in 240p mode. There are some details and test results in this thread.

fernan1234 wrote:
Thank you marqs for all the great info and replies here. I have a couple of questions regarding 1080i input and output on the OSSC Pro.

I believe you have mentioned that 1080i will be supported as a scaled output, and I assume it will also be supported as an input. I am wondering if the OSSC Pro can support a similar presentation of HD interlaced video as some professional monitors like Sony's, which essentially perform the same trick that the OSSC does already for SD interlace sources with bob combined with scanlines, which is both faster than other deinterlacing and more CRT-like in appearance. This is how Sony describes it in advertising material:

There is a pretty large amount of video content from broadcast and blurays of film, TV, music, animation, and various other content that is native 1080i and, albeit subjectively, is best represented in its original interlaced appearance, which is why Sony continues to advertise it even on its latest broadcast monitor. Enabling this feature on the OSSC Pro would bring its advantages to commercial TV sets and monitors that do not have it built in like Sony's pro monitors (and are significantly less expensive).
Both 1080i input and output will be supported. I've actually run some tests with Intel VIP IP suite recently, using its Deinterlacer II block in motion adaptive mode for 480i/576i and 1080i. The quality is pretty good and latency is just a few scanlines (operates using data from past frames), but it consumes quite a lot of FPGA resources. The IP is not open or free either, so in a long run I'd prefer something custom but nevertheless VIP could be a quick way to implement most scaler mode functions. The bob+scanlines method would be naturally supported as the classic model already implements it (for 1080i too).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:18 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1200
Fudoh wrote:
Do you have any reson to believe that alternating scanlines for 1080i input signals won't be available, when they have been available on the original OSSC for SD signals for years?


I guess it is likely they will be, but they are not on the OSSC, which only passes through 1080i without processing it as suggested. I imagine that the OSSC Pro hardware will be capable of this for HD signals, but don't know if marqs has already planned to implement it.

...And just as I was typing that, marqs just confirmed it.

marqs wrote:
The bob+scanlines method would be naturally supported as the classic model already implements it (for 1080i too).


Thank you for your response and for this confirmation! Great news for those of us who really value this feature and thus far depended on Sony's professional displays for it (I have never encountered any other video processor or display that can do this for HD signals).

edit: just got it that the OSSC classic does it too. Guess I just missed it somehow! The Pro's HDMI input will make it much more accessible and practical for digital sources.


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