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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:21 pm 


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Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 358
Location: BW, Germany
marqs wrote:
Perhaps the below example for 240p -> 1920x1080 (Line4x) [Generic 4:3] gives some idea how the parameters are selected under the hood:
Spoiler: show
Input [1]:

H1_Total: H1_Active / 0.82 = 1560 (ADC sampling rate)
V1_Total: ~262 (source-dependant)
H1_Active: X2 = 1280
V1_Active: 240

Output [2]:

H2_Total: 2200 (CEA-spec)
V2_Total: 1125 (CEA-spec)
H2_Active: 1920 (CEA-spec)
V2_Active: 1080 (CEA-spec)
X2: (4/3)*Y2 = 1280
Y2: 4*V1_Active = 960
6t8k wrote:
Side-note: the implementation of the non-Pro OSSC's "Line5x format" setting must be tied to a (slightly?) different concept because the external clock generator is missing, right?
That just adjusts vertical active-blanking ratio while total stays same.
6t8k wrote:
Assumption: as opposed to LM/ALM modes, in scaler mode, the Pro does not have to do this and will be able to freely scale in both H and V dimensions.
Freeform scaling in just H dimension could be done in all modes (no additional buffering), but freeform vertical/combined scaling is not within the definition of line multiplication. The premise of line multiplication is to provide pixel/line accurate output with minimal delay while scaler mode can trade some of that for better size/aspect control.


I'm going to print this out and tack it onto my wall. Thank you. Image

(Only thing remaining that "appears from nowhere" and I couldn't nail down yet is the 0.82 divisor, but I'm confident I'll find out.)

Edit: it would seem that H1_Total = H1_Active + H2_Blank (H2_Total - H2_Active) because it is projected onto 1920x1080.
1280/(1280+280) = 32/39 ≈ 0.82.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:15 pm 



Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 1
@marqs Is there any idea of when this will be available for purchase or the expected price point? also is there likely to be a long waiting list (how would I get on it)?

My use case: I'm looking for a solution to live stream Amiga 1200 via an Atem Mini Pro which takes HDMI input.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-APS-14


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:04 pm 



Joined: 15 May 2020
Posts: 1
Was there already a development/test available to put on a Cyclone V? Perhaps also a PCB file to print for it?

On Marqs Github I can't really see anything OSSC Pro related really quick.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:51 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 765
Location: Finland
6t8k wrote:
(Only thing remaining that "appears from nowhere" and I couldn't nail down yet is the 0.82 divisor, but I'm confident I'll find out.)

Edit: it would seem that H1_Total = H1_Active + H2_Blank (H2_Total - H2_Active) because it is projected onto 1920x1080.
1280/(1280+280) = 32/39 ≈ 0.82.
Actually 0.82 (or more precisely 0.820512...) is the aspect-correct ratio for visible portion of a scanline on 15/31kHz video. In other words, 240 lines form height of the (underscanned) picture and then 82% of the scanline is the corresponding width for correct 4:3 aspect.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:59 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 112
Hey @marqs!

Love your work! I've been enjoying the OSSC for over a year and a half and couldn't be happier! Can't wait to play with the OSSC Pro.

Just a question... I was wondering if you have plans for 720p games, which were super common on both the PS3 and the Xbox 360. I know line tripler here would be impossible, due to the limitations of hardware, but what about upscaling it to 1080p in a way that it is not messy?

Many of us have 4K TVs in which 960p and 720p signals are not satisfactorily upscaled. The windowed 960p in a 1080p background is a perfect solution, but what about 720p games?

Also, RetroGamingCables is now producind these HDMI cables called RAD2X. Would it work with OSSC Pro? Would it improve anything?

Thanks a lot for your time! Hope you're ok during the confinement!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:57 pm 


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Posts: 358
Location: BW, Germany
marqs wrote:
Actually 0.82 (or more precisely 0.820512...) is the aspect-correct ratio for visible portion of a scanline on 15/31kHz video. In other words, 240 lines form height of the (underscanned) picture and then 82% of the scanline is the corresponding width for correct 4:3 aspect.

Ah! That makes sense. I previously read that horizontal blanking occupies slightly different ratio of every total scanline though? The most accurate numbers I could find are here (SMPTE 170M), which ultimately defines it as (572/9 - ( 1.5 + 9.2 + tolerance )) / (572/9), where
-0.2 <= tolerance <= +0.3 (numbers shown are μs). 18% lies outside of that window. Now that you spelled out the number, I'm surprised that it seems to be exactly 32/39. Where does it originate from?

I take it, that the classical problem is that while analog video specs state that the image has to have a 4:3 aspect ratio when displayed, they don't state what portion of the video signal that 4:3 corresponds to, so as somebody who wants to digitize said signal for display, you have to make something up that's approximately right. Is that what's happening here?

What further complicates this is of course is that consoles have horizontal active/blank ratios that differ from the above (I take it you assumed an idealized NTSC signal here). So assuming 1) the Pro doesn't detect the horizontal active/blank ratio of the connected video source by itself and 2) you want to calibrate the image such that it's displayed in the aspect ratio you'd get if you calibrated your CRT to show the whole active area using potentiometers – something that people prominently try to recreate based on this methodology for example – the gist would be that this would only be possible in scaler mode, right?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:03 pm 


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DiegoPonga wrote:
RetroGamingCables is now producind these HDMI cables called RAD2X. Would it work with OSSC Pro? Would it improve anything?


The RAD2x is just kinda doing what an OSSC does anyway, it takes the analogue output from the console, digitises and then doubles it (hence the 2x). I'm sure it would work connected to the OSSC but it would also limit your options as the signal is already 480p.. the OSSC would only be able to do Line2x on that (i.e. Line4x on the original signal) so you would lose line 3x and 5x as options. You also wouldn't be able to dial in optimal timings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 2:46 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
DiegoPonga wrote:
Just a question... I was wondering if you have plans for 720p games, which were super common on both the PS3 and the Xbox 360. I know line tripler here would be impossible, due to the limitations of hardware, but what about upscaling it to 1080p in a way that it is not messy?

Many of us have 4K TVs in which 960p and 720p signals are not satisfactorily upscaled. The windowed 960p in a 1080p background is a perfect solution, but what about 720p games?

Not likely to happen with the regular OSSC, but the OSSC Pro is going to have a full scaler, which would be able to both scale 720p to 1080p or windowbox 720p in a 1080p frame, depending on your preference.

DiegoPonga wrote:
Also, RetroGamingCables is now producind these HDMI cables called RAD2X. Would it work with OSSC Pro? Would it improve anything?

The RAD2X is a different product for a different audience. Yes, it should work fine with the OSSC Pro, but I imagine you'd get more options and capability connecting RGB from the console directly to the OSSC Pro.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:06 pm 



Joined: 16 Feb 2020
Posts: 4
Completely crazy idea for the ossc pro:
If we could provide some x/y coordinate to the fpga in some way, with the appropriate code could it fire a gpio when the input signal reach the corresponding line/pixel (properly scaled to the x/y coordinate range) ? Or no because the analog front end mask to much details ?
See https://www.sindenlightgun.com


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:19 am 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 765
Location: Finland
Tazz wrote:
Completely crazy idea for the ossc pro:
If we could provide some x/y coordinate to the fpga in some way, with the appropriate code could it fire a gpio when the input signal reach the corresponding line/pixel (properly scaled to the x/y coordinate range) ? Or no because the analog front end mask to much details ?
See https://www.sindenlightgun.com
It's possible, but I'm not sure if it'd be helpful as modern lightguns can't operate by triggering on CRT beam "collision" (and getting corresponding X/Y position from sync signal etc).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:09 pm 



Joined: 16 Feb 2020
Posts: 4
marqs wrote:
Tazz wrote:
Completely crazy idea for the ossc pro:
If we could provide some x/y coordinate to the fpga in some way, with the appropriate code could it fire a gpio when the input signal reach the corresponding line/pixel (properly scaled to the x/y coordinate range) ? Or no because the analog front end mask to much details ?
See https://www.sindenlightgun.com
It's possible, but I'm not sure if it'd be helpful as modern lightguns can't operate by triggering on CRT beam "collision" (and getting corresponding X/Y position from sync signal etc).


Yes but it is exactly for the opposite : use a sindenlightgun to be able to use original retro hardware on modern TV panel (and a ossc pro).
Today, for all old console/hw using lightguns, you must have a CRT and a not too modern one (no 100hz).
With sindenlightgun, you could play theses old games on modern panel but only on an emulator.
With a proper OSSC pro addon (and some OSSC support code), we could get x/y from sindenlightgun (USB mouse) push them to ossc on one side, get beam interrupt/pulse from OSSC and push it on the old device/console with the proper level/pin adaptation (with trigger press event too etc ...).
On the OSSC side when in "sindenlightgun" mode we need
- a way to push x/y
- generate the proper white border
- generate the pulse when the "virtual beam" reach x/y


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:56 pm 



Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 30
Maybe this has already been addressed, but I have a weird use case...

So the RetroTink/RAD2x have this smoothing filter that looks pretty good, yeah? I asked Mike Chi about it, and he mentioned that the way the filter is applied is that the image coming in is scaled from 240p to 480p, and then the filter seeks out edges and performs smoothing.

So I have an N64 with an UltraHDMI mod installed, and the lowest resolution it can output is 480p. Is it possible for the OSSC Pro to apply a similar filter to the UltraHDMI 480p image and then scale the output from that to 1080p? I mean, eventually of course; I know that there is a ton of stuff in the pipeline before that'll be possible.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 1:28 am 


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Posts: 875
Man, Ive been keeping track of this thread....if Marqs somehow implements all the features that have been requested, the Pro should be released in about 5 years or so and only set you back a couple G's. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:03 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 262
Drunk_Caterpillar wrote:
So I have an N64 with an UltraHDMI mod installed, and the lowest resolution it can output is 480p. Is it possible for the OSSC Pro to apply a similar filter to the UltraHDMI 480p image and then scale the output from that to 1080p? I mean, eventually of course; I know that there is a ton of stuff in the pipeline before that'll be possible.


What I think would look even better is using the OSSC Pro to upscale the 640x480 output from the ultraHDMI to 1440p with an edge smoothing filter then downscale back to 480p for display on a PC CRT or presentation monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 3:23 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
Drunk_Caterpillar wrote:
Maybe this has already been addressed, but I have a weird use case...

So the RetroTink/RAD2x have this smoothing filter that looks pretty good, yeah? I asked Mike Chi about it, and he mentioned that the way the filter is applied is that the image coming in is scaled from 240p to 480p, and then the filter seeks out edges and performs smoothing.

So I have an N64 with an UltraHDMI mod installed, and the lowest resolution it can output is 480p. Is it possible for the OSSC Pro to apply a similar filter to the UltraHDMI 480p image and then scale the output from that to 1080p? I mean, eventually of course; I know that there is a ton of stuff in the pipeline before that'll be possible.

Why not try to get in touch with Marshall of retroactive.be to get a smoothing filter added to the UltraHDMI firmware?


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