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 Post subject: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:42 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 782
Location: Finland
A new OSSC model is in development and will be released later this year!

The new model improves almost all aspects of the original design and incorporates several new features which has been requested by community over the years. A preliminary block diagram, concept pictures and summary of key improvements are presented below.

Block diagram:
Image

Concept pictures:
Image

Image

Highlights of the new design:

ISL51002 video ADC:
* improved sync processing robustness
* reduced sampling jitter with DPLL
* fine-grained video LPF
* automatic sampling phase adjustment

Cyclone V FPGA (5CEFA5F23C8N):
* higher performance and more resources
* hard memory controller
* large number of IOs

Clocking and memory improvements:
* Si5351C clock generator for accurate output pixel clock generation (framelock or free-running)
* 512MB LPDDR2 RAM and 16MB QSPI flash

New AV inputs:
* HDMI
* SPDIF (optical)

2x20 pin GPIO connector for future expansion possibilities such as:
* composite & s-video input module
* secondary video output (e.g. VGA) module
* latency tester interface module
* game controller port module (for using OSSC Pro as a dedicated FPGA console)


The processing modes enabled by the HW can be split roughly into three types:

1. Pure line multiplier
* both active and blanking lines multiplied - basically what original OSSC does
* simplest mode with least latency

2. Adaptive line multiplier
* visible lines are multiplied but horizontal & vertical total matched to standard timings
* high compatibility with minimal latency overhead (1-30 lines typically)
* enables some new output configurations such as 4x240p/2x480p in standard 1080p frame

3. Scaler
* higher flexibility via LPDDR2 utilization
* HQ deinterlacing
* non-integer scaling
* rotation
* refresh rate conversion


It will take time until all the features get implemented, but release can be expected once the HW is complete and a sufficient number of new features are available and verified. As a thanks to community's support for the first project, upcoming prototypes of the new model will be sent to the guys who have contributed most on the original OSSC firmware. New developers are also welcome as the project is large enough to enable different implementation areas for several people. For DIY-builders and those who can't wait for the final HW, a small add-on PCB compatible with a couple Terasic FPGA dev boards (DE10-Nano, DE2-115) is in works and available soon. Together with the parent dev board, it can be used to implement a subset of the functionality presented above.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:47 pm 


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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 1225
Location: Southern California
Amazing announcement! This is exciting!
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:00 pm 



Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 9
"3. Scaler"

sounds realy good.............. :D
count me in.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:05 pm 


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Posts: 7181
Location: block
This is sooner and -much- bigger an update than anything I expected. Awesome. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:12 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1366
This new project sounds very exciting.

The new frontend claims it can deal with severe sync disturbances with little compromise with regards to jitter.
Automatic sampling phase and channel offset controls should make a normally tedious job free.
The large bandwidth control and the mixer may make the additional input buffer IC obsolete.
All in all, this may be a great frontend that needs less firmware control to deliver the best possible quality.

marqs:
I wonder about the Si5351C clock generator, as I'm looking into this chip (A variant) myself right now.
Do you plan on using the fractional PLL as a display clock directly? Do you think it is good enough to meet specs?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:13 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2366
Well I want one.

Any idea about how much input lag scaling will have?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:22 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 195
Location: St Louis, IL, USA
Holy moly, did I see ROTATION on there!!!!!! YES!!! How much lag will this introduce?!?!

Also, any chance you could call it the OSSC 2? The Pro name is stupid for a sequel product, especially since it doesn't really mean professional. I mean the first OSSC is professional. Also, are you going to sell both side by side? Just my opinion of course, I'll buy it even if you call it shit in a bag!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:27 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 46
Wow, this is great! I can't wait for some better deinterlacing. It's the only reason I use my Framemeister still.

Will this support higher resolutions/line doubling than 1080p/5x for 240p? With 4k TVs being standard it'd be really awesome to see if the hardware supports it. What about HDMI's optional QMS for really fast resolution switching (240p/480i switching).

*EDIT* I know nothing of this stuff but some Googling found https://www.renesas.com/us/en/www/doc/d ... l51002.pdf which lists max resolutions up to 1080p@60hz. This mean we're limited to 1080p still?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:42 pm 


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Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Location: https://irkenlabs.com/
The BOM looks expensive and ambitious! I presume it will be more than a 2 layer PCB this time :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:48 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 51
Looks amazing! Just when I was thinking the OSSC was finished and perfect, lol. Can't wait to see the OSSC Pro in action.

Will it still be limited to 1920x1200 output?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:54 pm 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
Posts: 135
So excited for this! Am I reading correctly that the Pro should handle sync changes faster, i.e. 240p to 480i and back?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:55 pm 


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Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1901
Location: Denmark
Looks like instant buy. The new form factor is also much nicer and would allow for a better case :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:58 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 782
Location: Finland
rama wrote:
The new frontend claims it can deal with severe sync disturbances with little compromise with regards to jitter.
Automatic sampling phase and channel offset controls should make a normally tedious job free.
The large bandwidth control and the mixer may make the additional input buffer IC obsolete.
All in all, this may be a great frontend that needs less firmware control to deliver the best possible quality.
Selection of the video ADC was a hard choice between ISL51002 and ADV7842 - I hope I made the right call this time. ISL51002 has its own quircks but so far it has operated way better than TVP7002.

rama wrote:
I wonder about the Si5351C clock generator, as I'm looking into this chip (A variant) myself right now.
Do you plan on using the fractional PLL as a display clock directly? Do you think it is good enough to meet specs?
Yes, I've been using that chip in cps2_digiav project with good results.

XtraSmiley wrote:
I mean the first OSSC is professional. Also, are you going to sell both side by side? Just my opinion of course, I'll buy it even if you call it shit in a bag!
invzim wrote:
The BOM looks expensive and ambitious! I presume it will be more than a 2 layer PCB this time :)
It's a different model in different price category which isn't going to replace the original one (which I wouldn't call professional for various reasons). No chance for cheap 2-layer PCB this time.

PearlJammzz wrote:
Will this support higher resolutions/line doubling than 1080p/5x for 240p? With 4k TVs being standard it'd be really awesome to see if the hardware supports it. What about HDMI's optional QMS for really fast resolution switching (240p/480i switching).

*EDIT* I know nothing of this stuff but some Googling found https://www.renesas.com/us/en/www/doc/d ... l51002.pdf which lists max resolutions up to 1080p@60hz. This mean we're limited to 1080p still?
That datasheet is just for the video ADC, but yes, the HDMI transmitter chip is also limited to around 165MHz. Proper 4K processing is very expensive to implement on FPGA today, but the model is designed so that it'd be straightforward to make a 4K edition one day when the hardware (and required design tool) costs drop.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1781
1. Regarding the TOSLINK input, will that be assignable to any input? And will there be auto-detection to allow the TOSLINK audio to be used instead of the analogue audio when both are detected? For example, I have both TOSLINK and RCA stereo coming out of my YPbPr component switcher; would I be able to run the analogue audio to AV2, with the video, and then TOSLINK to the TOSLINK input, and have the TOSLINK audio be used when I select AV2, and for it to fall back on analogue when there's no digital audio playing?

2. Regarding the expansion I/O, will there be pins for serial communication? Would it also be possible to make an addon module for additional TOSLINK inputs, for those who may have TOSLINK from both AV1, AV2, AV3, and/or AV4 (DVI+TOSLINK) sources?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:08 pm 


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Posts: 2413
Location: Kentucky
An HDMI input was my most-wanted feature, so that makes this worth it to me for that alone. Glad I've been too lazy to sell my HDMI GameCube :D

If the deinterlacing looks good for the PS2, it would be the last console to move over from my CRT as well. Or maybe one of the 2 new scaling modes could output a 1440i signal my OLED likes.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:12 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 353
Location: UK
This is exciting news! I will be definitely purchasing.

Will there be downscaling (480i/Other) to 240p on the roadmap?

"Dedicated FPGA console" bloody hell, what doesn't it do


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:13 pm 


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Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 239
Location: Ohio,USA
My only request is over voltage protection. The current OSSC does not have this and if someone plugs in a supply over 5v, it instantly fries the HDMI transmitter, and generally at least 2 regulators. Sometimes it fries even more.

Otherwise. This sounds awesome and I definitely look forward to seeing what you bring to the table this time.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 pm 


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Mobiusstriptech wrote:
My only request is over voltage protection.


This! Please listen to the man.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:18 pm 



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 102
I just thought I'd mention at this stage.. I'd love it if HDMI-CEC stuff were possible. If it detects a signal on one of the inputs, it would switch to that input, then send out an "Device On" and "Select this HDMI input" signal to the TV and/or AVR.

It would be possible then to turn on your SNES or whatever, and then it would automatically turn on the TV and switch to the right input.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:21 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 497
This is incredible.
Is there any chance of it being able to detect what signals are being sent and automatically apply the correct timings? Also, any chance of automatic phase detection?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:30 pm 


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So we can break our NDA now Markus? :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:35 pm 



Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 20
Well, looks like another pre-order is in my future.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:45 pm 


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Joined: 02 May 2012
Posts: 44
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Awesome news! Love that expansion port. I'd love to see an RGB/SCART out that acts as a passthrough to feed into the PVM. That way you can have dual output for capturing footage while playing on a PVM. Love the tease of using the OSSC as a FPGA console ;)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:59 pm 


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Posts: 574
Location: Germany
WOOOOOOOAAAAAHHHHH!

I assume "HQ deinterlacing" includes stuff like inverse telecine?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:06 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 171
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Fantastic news! Can’t wait for this!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:06 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 524
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
This sounds amazing

I'm assuming adaptive line multiplication will allow for "windowed" scaling. Like 960p in a 1080p frame?
I'm super hyped for TOSLINK input. I dumped wayyyyy too much money into TOSLINK to HDMI embedders that didn't work.
The DE10-Nano compatible dev board also sounds amazing. Even though I'm not a dev, I'm hoping I can get my hands on one of those to test features.

I plan to order at least 2 as soon as any preorder lists go up. So hyped!
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:10 pm 


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Posts: 205
Location: Northern California
HDMI and SPDIF in! That's a day one preorder for sure. Being able to assign the audio source in profiles is going to be wonderful. I'm really looking forward to it


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:11 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 996
This was due! People working on MiSTer stuff have been throwing a bit of shade at the OG OSSC's relatively lacking capabilities, since the scalers that can be used in the DE10-Nano/MiSTer are really good. I was thinking that someone doing a dedicated scaler platform on the Nano was a matter of time, especially with the board being affordable thanks to the Terasic subsidy, but this may make it unnecessary.

Regarding features, will a frame buffer be possible? I'd be looking forward to that for smooth resolution changes without sync drops. Also looking forward to good de-interlacing (a lost art, really), LPF on D-Sub input, rotation, and expansion possibilities.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:11 pm 


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I forgot to mention. Please please PLEASE find a way to remove 5V output to the HDMI output when there isn't an active input. This would make a HUGE difference to HDMI auto switching setups.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:20 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 497
BuckoA51 wrote:
So we can break our NDA now Markus? :lol:

Will you be creating a mailing list for this one? ;p


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