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 Post subject: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:47 am 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
BIG EDIT - Ok so I'm a dang fool. I set my OSSC to line 4x mode for 480i and line 2x for 480p so they both do 960p. I also turned on upsample 2x under sampling. Holy shit its so sharp. I also dialed in my sampling settings for the ps2. I also switched to using scart than component since the ossc actually supports sync on green for 480p over RGB. It looks damn nice. So clear and sharp. Some people may not like the jaggies but thats what you get with a low res image. Either way I'm the kind of person who just want's a razor sharp image. Jaggies of older 3d titles do not bother me in the slightest. I am in love now with this setup. The 2008 samsung still does a wonderful job but damn this looks nice.

I have a 2018 49 inch 4k Samsung Q6FN QLED as my main tv. It has very low input lag of 14.9 ms. I have my OSSC connected too it and for older systems like my RGB AV Famicom and my 1chip SNES they look amazing at 4x scaling. When it comes to the 6th gen of systems tho the OSSC isn't really that great of a solution for them. My 4k tv doesn't even have physical inputs for component or hell even composite without an adapter and as you know using composite on an HDTV let alone a 4k screen is like trying to play a game with sand in your eyes.

Anyway I recently picked up a 32inch 2008 Samsung LN32A330. It's a 720p screen with an actual resolution of 1366 x 768. My question is this. Why the heck does a tv from 2008 make the ps2 look pretty darn good when it looks like shit on a more modern tv? Just find it funny.
Now I know how the ps2 was designed for CRT's. It loks fantastic with Component on a crt for sure. Especially more high end crt's. The qaulity on this 2008 samsung I got for like 50 bucks is almost as good as my sony wega. Like its that good. It has that crt softness but its not pixelated and doesn't look noisy. Every other HDTV I have ever tried with the ps2 has looked like crap or just meh since it came out. I've been playing mine for the last 20 years.

So if anyone could shed some light on this that would be cool. Either way I'm pretty happy with this older tv for my 6th gen systems. Hell even my original xbox which tends to fair pretty good on hdtv's looks like shit on my 4k tv but not this 2008 one.


Last edited by GumballBunny on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:07 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 324
The 720p TV is smaller and doesn’t have to upscale as far not to mention that most ps2 games are not even progressive scan enabled.

I believe some people around here with 4k TVs get good results with 480p content by setting their ossc to output 960p then using an Extron DSC to do a 960p to 1080p scale and allowing their TV to do the rest.

Personally I just keep a 480p plasma around for 6th gen stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:10 am 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
strayan wrote:
The 720p TV is smaller and doesn’t have to upscale as far not to mention that most ps2 games are not even progressive scan enabled.

I believe some people around here with 4k TVs get good results with 480p content by setting their ossc to output 960p then using an Extron DSC to do a 960p to 1080p scale and allowing their TV to do the rest.

Personally I just keep a 480p plasma around for 6th gen stuff.

Wait there exists plasmas that are just 480p? I didn't know that o.o


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:43 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 324
GumballBunny wrote:
Wait there exists plasmas that are just 480p? I didn't know that o.o


Yes and they cost next to nothing.

I also prefer to slightly downscale rather than upscale. For example Breath of the Wild is rendered on the Switch at 900p. In this instance I’d rather (and do) connect my Switch to a 768p TV than a 1080p TV or greater.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:15 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
strayan wrote:
GumballBunny wrote:
Wait there exists plasmas that are just 480p? I didn't know that o.o


Yes and they cost next to nothing.

I also prefer to slightly downscale rather than upscale. For example Breath of the Wild is rendered on the Switch at 900p. In this instance I’d rather (and do) connect my Switch to a 768p TV than a 1080p TV or greater.

Man id love to find one. Any advice on trying to pick one up? ebay has about zilch at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 324
Facebook marketplace or gumtree, idk where you’re based so those options may not be available to you. They do pop up on ebay fairly often. Look for 42 inch plasmas because they mainly came in that size. Check the manual before you buy one to ensure that it has a native resolution of 848x480 or 852x480 and also accepts at least one of those resolutions via DVI or VGA. Don’t pay more than $50. Between $5 and $25 is reasonable imo.


Last edited by strayan on Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:47 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
strayan wrote:
Facebook marketplace or gumtree, idk where you’re based so those options may not be available to you. They do pop up on ebay fairly often. Look for 42 inch plasmas because they mainly came in that size. Check the manual before you buy one to ensure that it has a native resolution of 848x480 or 852x480 and also accepts at least one of those resolutions via DVI.

Thanks for the advice. Im in the US so facebook marketplace works.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:52 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 324
Bear in mind that all these plasmas are largely untested as far as input lag and other features go with some pretty big differences between brands and models. I bought a samsung once recently on ebay and it was so bad I threw it away immediately.

Looks like some guy on resetera posted some screenshots of his pioneer https://www.resetera.com/threads/retro- ... vms.86318/


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:13 pm 


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Without screenshots and more information about the PS2 on OP's displays, I don't know what "better" is.

As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.
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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:17 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
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strayan wrote:
Bear in mind that all these plasmas are largely untested as far as input lag and other features go with some pretty big differences between brands and models. I bought a samsung once recently on ebay and it was so bad I threw it away immediately.

Looks like some guy on resetera posted some screenshots of his pioneer https://www.resetera.com/threads/retro- ... vms.86318/

Well I have never owned or used a plasma of any kind. I can tell you this tho. The input lag of my 4k tv is 14.9 ms. I don't know what it is on the 2008 one but based purely on feel which I know is not ideal I honestly can not feel any significant lag. It is very very similar in performance. I even split the video between both tv's just to watch them together and it was pretty much 1:1 as far as I could tell. I suppose when looking for a plasma i'm going to have to do my research.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:33 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1135
orange808 wrote:
As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.


I have to tell you that I've been converted. You know all that stuff I tried to get 480p to look half way decent on my 1080p and 4K modern TV's? OSSC, Extron DSC 301 HD, Corio2's, tried my buddies VP50 Pro, etc.? Yeah, on my 42" native-480p plasma I just plug it in and it looks amazing - pretty darn close to my 32" multiformat professional CRT, BVM's, and CRT PC monitors (and the 42" plasma dwarfs all of those in size!).

They're hard to find though. Those early ones which do 480p have mostly been trashed. Found a couple in my area initially then crickets for a while now. The black levels on those early 480p-only plasma's also aren't nearly as good as the later 1080p plasma's.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
orange808 wrote:
Without screenshots and more information about the PS2 on OP's displays, I don't know what "better" is.

As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.

What would be a good way of taking screenshots? The ps2 I am using is a slim 75000 model using official sony gold plated component cables. It is being run through the OSSC. On the 4k set the image through passthrough with 480i looks very pixelated and has those deinterlacing artifacts when moving the camera left to right. When the 2x mode is enabled and bob deinterlacing comes into play you get that crt like flickering but thats the ossc not the tv. My 4k tv how ever does not like it. It jumps every 5 seconds. It's hard to explain without a video I apologize for that. in 4x mode its less pixelated, less noisy, how ever the 4k set thinks its a pc display coming from the OSSC and the color space gets changed and the games end up looking very washed out. When this tv is in pc mode you cant change it. And its soley depending on what resolution is coming through. 480p fairs better for sure but not by much. in 480p line double mode i get the same issues with the tv thinking the image is coming from a pc.

On the 2008 tv all of these problems for the most part are gone. passthrough with 480i looks damn good. Better than I ever expected. I dont get any deinterlacing artifacts at least none I can tell. When comparing 480i to 480p in tony hawks american wasteland for instance (it lets you toggle it) 480i looks almost as good as 480p on the 2008 tv. So this tv does a great job deinterlacing. The bob deinterlacing of the OSSC which i don't like using on the 2008 at least doesnt jump every 5 seconds like on the 4k set. 480p line doubled looks really sharp and clean. Almost a little 2 sharp but still great. I hope this helps clear some things up.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:38 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1006
It's all gonna be compromises one way or another. Of course things will look best with no or minimal scaling. I agree Plasmas are not really worth it at this point as an ideal solution, but they can definitely be "good enough", especially for 480p. But they are old, bulky, and heavy. And for 480p nothing will be better than a PC CRT. For 480i nothing can come close to SD/multisyinc CRT (except maybe Sony broadcast monitors with interlace effect). I don't trust anything else for de-interlacing anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:46 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
fernan1234 wrote:
It's all gonna be compromises one way or another. Of course things will look best with no or minimal scaling. I agree Plasmas are not really worth it at this point as an ideal solution, but they can definitely be "good enough", especially for 480p. But they are old, bulky, and heavy. And for 480p nothing will be better than a PC CRT. For 480i nothing can come close to SD/multisyinc CRT (except maybe Sony broadcast monitors with interlace effect). I don't trust anything else for de-interlacing anymore.

It's just a shame really. My old systems like the SNES and rgb modded NES are amazing to look at with the OSSC on my 4k. razor sharp. I had a buddy of mine come over and saw me playing Final Fantasy VI aka III and thought I was playing on an emulator because of how sharp and clear it was. With the 6th generation tho it seems as you said compromise is the way to go. With the advent of television technology being as advanced as it is, I just wish we could get a new TV that could handle anything you through at it and we wouldn't have to own 2 or 3 different monitors or TV's to get the job done that a single CRT did for all that time. It's insane to me. But oh well. Its like 10 steps forward and 1 big step back in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:56 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
orange808 wrote:
As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.


I have to tell you that I've been converted. You know all that stuff I tried to get 480p to look half way decent on my 1080p and 4K modern TV's? OSSC, Extron DSC 301 HD, Corio2's, tried my buddies VP50 Pro, etc.? Yeah, on my 42" native-480p plasma I just plug it in and it looks amazing - pretty darn close to my 32" multiformat professional CRT, BVM's, and CRT PC monitors (and the 42" plasma dwarfs all of those in size!).

They're hard to find though. Those early ones which do 480p have mostly been trashed. Found a couple in my area initially then crickets for a while now. The black levels on those early 480p-only plasma's also aren't nearly as good as the later 1080p plasma's.


I'm sure it looks nice enough, but it depends on what you value in a display and what you like. Every display has strengths and weaknesses.
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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:13 pm 


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GumballBunny wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Without screenshots and more information about the PS2 on OP's displays, I don't know what "better" is.

As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.

What would be a good way of taking screenshots? The ps2 I am using is a slim 75000 model using official sony gold plated component cables. It is being run through the OSSC. On the 4k set the image through passthrough with 480i looks very pixelated and has those deinterlacing artifacts when moving the camera left to right. When the 2x mode is enabled and bob deinterlacing comes into play you get that crt like flickering but thats the ossc not the tv. My 4k tv how ever does not like it. It jumps every 5 seconds. It's hard to explain without a video I apologize for that. in 4x mode its less pixelated, less noisy, how ever the 4k set thinks its a pc display coming from the OSSC and the color space gets changed and the games end up looking very washed out. When this tv is in pc mode you cant change it. And its soley depending on what resolution is coming through. 480p fairs better for sure but not by much. in 480p line double mode i get the same issues with the tv thinking the image is coming from a pc.

On the 2008 tv all of these problems for the most part are gone. passthrough with 480i looks damn good. Better than I ever expected. I dont get any deinterlacing artifacts at least none I can tell. When comparing 480i to 480p in tony hawks american wasteland for instance (it lets you toggle it) 480i looks almost as good as 480p on the 2008 tv. So this tv does a great job deinterlacing. The bob deinterlacing of the OSSC which i don't like using on the 2008 at least doesnt jump every 5 seconds like on the 4k set. 480p line doubled looks really sharp and clean. Almost a little 2 sharp but still great. I hope this helps clear some things up.


I tried out a Samsung QLED and I was also disappointed with the video processing. It used some kind of frame rate conversion with NES and SNES refresh rates and there are no external solutions that can be added to properly fix that.

PS2 is a tricky console that looks best on a CRT TV. AFAIK, there isn't one digital solution that will satisfy everyone or look good for every game.

480i Deinterlacing isn't a priority for manufacturers anymore, so new Samsungs performing poorly isn't surprising. I bet Samsung buys components and IP to handle their video processing in each model, so it's a crapshoot.
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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:47 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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I might be in the minority but I prefer my PS2 games in 480i on a crt than in 480p on an lcd. If your crt handles 480i well it can look pretty good imo.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:21 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
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Taiyaki wrote:
I might be in the minority but I prefer my PS2 games in 480i on a crt than in 480p on an lcd. If your crt handles 480i well it can look pretty good imo.

I totally agree. My sony wega I had to curb because the picture was going out of it and I have no idea how to fix it or know anyone who could. I also just don't have the room for a crt anymore. It sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm 



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
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orange808 wrote:
GumballBunny wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Without screenshots and more information about the PS2 on OP's displays, I don't know what "better" is.

As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.

What would be a good way of taking screenshots? The ps2 I am using is a slim 75000 model using official sony gold plated component cables. It is being run through the OSSC. On the 4k set the image through passthrough with 480i looks very pixelated and has those deinterlacing artifacts when moving the camera left to right. When the 2x mode is enabled and bob deinterlacing comes into play you get that crt like flickering but thats the ossc not the tv. My 4k tv how ever does not like it. It jumps every 5 seconds. It's hard to explain without a video I apologize for that. in 4x mode its less pixelated, less noisy, how ever the 4k set thinks its a pc display coming from the OSSC and the color space gets changed and the games end up looking very washed out. When this tv is in pc mode you cant change it. And its soley depending on what resolution is coming through. 480p fairs better for sure but not by much. in 480p line double mode i get the same issues with the tv thinking the image is coming from a pc.

On the 2008 tv all of these problems for the most part are gone. passthrough with 480i looks damn good. Better than I ever expected. I dont get any deinterlacing artifacts at least none I can tell. When comparing 480i to 480p in tony hawks american wasteland for instance (it lets you toggle it) 480i looks almost as good as 480p on the 2008 tv. So this tv does a great job deinterlacing. The bob deinterlacing of the OSSC which i don't like using on the 2008 at least doesnt jump every 5 seconds like on the 4k set. 480p line doubled looks really sharp and clean. Almost a little 2 sharp but still great. I hope this helps clear some things up.


I tried out a Samsung QLED and I was also disappointed with the video processing. It used some kind of frame rate conversion with NES and SNES refresh rates and there are no external solutions that can be added to properly fix that.

PS2 is a tricky console that looks best on a CRT TV. AFAIK, there isn't one digital solution that will satisfy everyone or look good for every game.

480i Deinterlacing isn't a priority for manufacturers anymore, so new Samsungs performing poorly isn't surprising. I bet Samsung buys components and IP to handle their video processing in each model, so it's a crapshoot.

I wouldnt put it past em. Like it looks great for my HD consoles like ps3, ps4 pro, xbox one x. Which it freagin better. considering how much I paid for it. But yeah anything older and you can fuck right off apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:18 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Taiyaki wrote:
I might be in the minority but I prefer my PS2 games in 480i on a crt than in 480p on an lcd. If your crt handles 480i well it can look pretty good imo.


I take it a step further, I think (for PS2 at least, Wii also) 480i on a CRT looks better than 480p on a CRT!


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:24 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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In my opinion 480i content only looks good on CRT displays, not only because they dont care about low res or the interlaced nature of the signal, but also because the phosphor's glow dont make the image too dark and flickery as a flat panel display does. Linedoubled 480i on a PC CRT also looks very nice.

The contrast of a CRT also helps a lot, but I heard plasmas can have just as good contrast.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:02 am 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
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tongshadow wrote:
In my opinion 480i content only looks good on CRT displays, not only because they dont care about low res or the interlaced nature of the signal, but also because the phosphor's glow dont make the image too dark and flickery as a flat panel display does. Linedoubled 480i on a PC CRT also looks very nice.

The contrast of a CRT also helps a lot, but I heard plasmas can have just as good contrast.


Okay a couple of things. Only CRTs flicker. LCDs, Plasma’s and OLEDs only display a Progressive picture so no flicker. CRTs are also darker than the other panels technologies. All other technologies give a too sharp picture. That’s why you can see the problems with the upscaling algorithms. However using an Integer linedoubling/trippling/quadrupling/quintupling technique produces a perfect picture when optimized. As a Sony PVM and OSSC owner I can say without any doubt the OSSC on my LG OLED produces a much sharper image with much better contrast than my Sony PVM. I do prefer my Sony PVM because of it’s softer picture and more traditional feel. Technically it’s not better though.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:17 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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Dochartaigh wrote:
orange808 wrote:
As for plasma, it's okay sometimes. I don't want one. Depends on what you like. There seems to be a cult developing and I'm not sure the actual plasmas are good enough to deserve the hype.


I have to tell you that I've been converted. You know all that stuff I tried to get 480p to look half way decent on my 1080p and 4K modern TV's? OSSC, Extron DSC 301 HD, Corio2's, tried my buddies VP50 Pro, etc.? Yeah, on my 42" native-480p plasma I just plug it in and it looks amazing - pretty darn close to my 32" multiformat professional CRT, BVM's, and CRT PC monitors (and the 42" plasma dwarfs all of those in size!).

They're hard to find though. Those early ones which do 480p have mostly been trashed. Found a couple in my area initially then crickets for a while now. The black levels on those early 480p-only plasma's also aren't nearly as good as the later 1080p plasma's.


What brand/model do you have?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:34 am 



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H6rdc0re wrote:
tongshadow wrote:
In my opinion 480i content only looks good on CRT displays, not only because they dont care about low res or the interlaced nature of the signal, but also because the phosphor's glow dont make the image too dark and flickery as a flat panel display does. Linedoubled 480i on a PC CRT also looks very nice.

The contrast of a CRT also helps a lot, but I heard plasmas can have just as good contrast.


Okay a couple of things. Only CRTs flicker. LCDs, Plasma’s and OLEDs only display a Progressive picture so no flicker.

I know , I was talking about how the more popular upscaling/linedoubler solutions deal with 480i, doing bob deinterlacing, and creating flickering, to output 480p.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 looks better on 2008 LCD than 2018 QLED 4k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:54 am 



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H6rdc0re wrote:
Okay a couple of things. Only CRTs flicker. LCDs, Plasma’s and OLEDs only display a Progressive picture so no flicker. CRTs are also darker than the other panels technologies. All other technologies give a too sharp picture. That’s why you can see the problems with the upscaling algorithms. However using an Integer linedoubling/trippling/quadrupling/quintupling technique produces a perfect picture when optimized. As a Sony PVM and OSSC owner I can say without any doubt the OSSC on my LG OLED produces a much sharper image with much better contrast than my Sony PVM. I do prefer my Sony PVM because of it’s softer picture and more traditional feel. Technically it’s not better though.


This is an obscure exception, but Sony's broadcast monitors have for several years been able to do flickering for interlaced material. It looks just like interlaced stuff looks on CRTs, without bobbing up and down like the OSSC's bob de-interlace. I wish this was implemented in larger consumer TVs, it may sound unnecessary but after all 1080i is still the standard for a lot of HD broadcast content, and it does look better and as intended with the interlacing look, since it's interlaced content to begin with.

Also a PVM with high enough TVL should look sharper even for 240p than the OSSC's line5x mode on an LG OLED, seen from appropriate viewing distances for each screen size. 480i on a high TVL CRT will be even much sharper than the OSSC's line4x/960p, especially since that gets further upscaled. Though the comparison may not be totally fair since obviously the OLED has a much larger screen.


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