Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming 2020

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ldeveraux
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by ldeveraux »

You'll not get RGB, but still nifty. I'm in!
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Lawfer
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by Lawfer »

ldeveraux wrote:You'll not get RGB
Yeah, it's to transcode to YPbPr (Component), you can use it as an add-on to the OSSC (since the OSSC doesn't do Composite or S-Video) or you can use it stand-alone if you need Composite or S-Video transcoded to YPbPr.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by FinalBaton »

I know some C64 users that are gonna be real happy about this development. will be following this
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ldeveraux
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by ldeveraux »

Lawfer wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:You'll not get RGB
Yeah, it's to transcode to YPbPr (Component), you can use it as an add-on to the OSSC (since the OSSC doesn't do Composite or S-Video) or you can use it stand-alone if you need Composite or S-Video transcoded to YPbPr.
I know it looks like the OSSC, and has the 2 missing inputs. I didn't put it together why this was paired with it. I'm not smart.
FinalBaton wrote:I know some C64 users that are gonna be real happy about this development. will be following this
But, this does RGB and looks fantastic! (I've done the MOD)
https://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement
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FinalBaton
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by FinalBaton »

ldeveraux wrote: But, this does RGB and looks fantastic! (I've done the MOD)
https://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement
Didn't know this existed. will mention as well

They all have several C64 thought, and I doubt they'll be willing to mod every single one of them. Probs their main one, but for all the others, that transcoder + the OSSC is gonna be real handy.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by BuckoA51 »

We're working with c0pperdragon to provide C64 component video kits too, both DIY and fitting service for those that need.

Furthermore, we're also working on a stripped down version of the c0pperdragon board that just has the S-video bypass. So you can basically choose between perfect picture but not 100% authentic hardware or best possible picture from 100% authentic hardware (lumafix 64 also required). With the c0pperdragon board and a lumafix fitted you can have both too, if you want to.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by svensonson »

good news! I`ve been waiting for something similar for some time until I came across a corio2.

I used a Corio2 2205 to transcode composite and s-video into ypbpr and even rgbs. C64 and MSX never looked better on a CRT.
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Lawfer
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by Lawfer »

BuckoA51 wrote:We're working with c0pperdragon to provide C64 component video kits too, both DIY and fitting service for those that need.

Furthermore, we're also working on a stripped down version of the c0pperdragon board that just has the S-video bypass. So you can basically choose between perfect picture but not 100% authentic hardware or best possible picture from 100% authentic hardware (lumafix 64 also required). With the c0pperdragon board and a lumafix fitted you can have both too, if you want to.
Any plans to release something similar, except HDMI and/or DVI-D? I am asking since the OSSC is not just lacking a Composite and S-Video input, it's also lacking an HDMI/DVI input.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by nmalinoski »

Lawfer wrote:
BuckoA51 wrote:We're working with c0pperdragon to provide C64 component video kits too, both DIY and fitting service for those that need.

Furthermore, we're also working on a stripped down version of the c0pperdragon board that just has the S-video bypass. So you can basically choose between perfect picture but not 100% authentic hardware or best possible picture from 100% authentic hardware (lumafix 64 also required). With the c0pperdragon board and a lumafix fitted you can have both too, if you want to.
Any plans to release something similar, except HDMI and/or DVI-D? I am asking since the OSSC is not just lacking a Composite and S-Video input, it's also lacking an HDMI/DVI input.
I'm not sure I follow. If you're responding to the C64 stuff (which is what you quoted), then an HDMI/DVI mod for the C64 would likely make an OSSC, and therefore HDMI input on the OSSC, moot.

If, instead, you're referring to the Koryuu, what's the point? For CVBS/YC to HDMI conversion, there's already the RT2X, which would be more compatible than a version of the Koryuu with an HDMI output, because it doesn't do any line-doubling, and there are a lot of displays that won't take 240p/288p or 480i/576i over HDMI; and, for HDMI to YPbPr conversion, we already have the Portta converter.
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Lawfer
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by Lawfer »

nmalinoski wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
BuckoA51 wrote:We're working with c0pperdragon to provide C64 component video kits too, both DIY and fitting service for those that need.

Furthermore, we're also working on a stripped down version of the c0pperdragon board that just has the S-video bypass. So you can basically choose between perfect picture but not 100% authentic hardware or best possible picture from 100% authentic hardware (lumafix 64 also required). With the c0pperdragon board and a lumafix fitted you can have both too, if you want to.
Any plans to release something similar, except HDMI and/or DVI-D? I am asking since the OSSC is not just lacking a Composite and S-Video input, it's also lacking an HDMI/DVI input.
I'm not sure I follow. If you're responding to the C64 stuff (which is what you quoted), then an HDMI/DVI mod for the C64 would likely make an OSSC, and therefore HDMI input on the OSSC, moot.

If, instead, you're referring to the Koryuu, what's the point? For CVBS/YC to HDMI conversion, there's already the RT2X, which would be more compatible than a version of the Koryuu with an HDMI output, because it doesn't do any line-doubling, and there are a lot of displays that won't take 240p/288p or 480i/576i over HDMI; and, for HDMI to YPbPr conversion, we already have the Portta converter.
No no no, I was asking Bucko if there was any plans for an HDMI or DVI solution, the OSSC does not have any HDMI or DVI inputs, so you can not plug any HDMI or DVI inputs in it directly, following me so far? So I was asking if there were any plans for a device similar to the Koryuu but one that offered HDMI and/or DVI inputs instead of Composite and S-Video.

There are quite a bit of digital solutions now for lower resolution consoles, such as the WiiDual, GCDual (among others) that offers HDMI out, yeah? Problem is, you can not use them with the OSSC since the OSSC offers no HDMI inputs, so the only way to use a Wii or GameCube with the OSSC is through their analog outputs, a device similar to the Koryuu but one that would be used as an HDMI/DVI add-on to the OSSC would be useful in this case.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by XtraSmiley »

I'm confused about this product. If I use a Mega Drive's composite plug into this device, will the component output be actual component quality? Will it be the same as using the Mega Drive's RGB out to a RetroTink RGB2Comp box? If the answer is yes, this is pretty great, if the answer is no, I'm confused as to what purpose this would serve. Just to feed a composite signal into an OSSC for conversion to HDMI? Wouldn't the quality still be terrible?
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Lawfer
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by Lawfer »

XtraSmiley wrote:I'm confused about this product. If I use a Mega Drive's composite plug into this device, will the component output be actual component quality?
No, it's a transcoder to use either with a product that does not have composite or S-Video inputs, or use with the OSSC which does not have Composite nor S-Video inputs.

Some electronics (especially older ones) just do not have RGB nor Component out, some of them can be modded to output RGB or Component out (such as the Nintendo 64) but some people might not want to mod their electronics or some electronics just might not be moddable, so the only way is to use Composite or S-video, the OSSC will line-double the resolution for modern displays who quality depends on their native resolution.

For example, I have a broadcast monitor, yeah? But that broadcast monitor will only do RGB or YPbPr, but if I want S-Video, but that broadcast monitor doesn't have any S-Video inputs options at all, so how can I hook up S-Video to it? Well that's where the Koryuu comes in!
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by SamIAm »

http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

2000 yen. Turns composite into RGB.
ldeveraux
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by ldeveraux »

Lawfer wrote: Any plans to release something similar, except HDMI and/or DVI-D? I am asking since the OSSC is not just lacking a Composite and S-Video input, it's also lacking an HDMI/DVI input.
Yeah, this would be pretty useful to unify all systems through the OSSC.
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Lawfer
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by Lawfer »

ldeveraux wrote:
Lawfer wrote: Any plans to release something similar, except HDMI and/or DVI-D? I am asking since the OSSC is not just lacking a Composite and S-Video input, it's also lacking an HDMI/DVI input.
Yeah, this would be pretty useful to unify all systems through the OSSC.
Yeah the OSSC is a great tool for anything that is 240p or 480p, it's main drawback (for me) is that it's only offering RGB and YPbPr, the Koryuu will thankfully remedy this situation by adding inputs for Composite and S-Video, that only leaves out HDMI/DVI.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by fernan1234 »

SamIAm wrote:http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

2000 yen. Turns composite into RGB.
Interesting. I'm really curious to see images of the resulting picture.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by maxtherabbit »

SamIAm wrote:http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

2000 yen. Turns composite into RGB.
that looks bad ass - it's transcoding in analog too so theoretically it would be better as an input stage for the OSSC so you can still optimally sample the original source
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by orange808 »

maxtherabbit wrote:
SamIAm wrote:http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

2000 yen. Turns composite into RGB.
that looks bad ass - it's transcoding in analog too so theoretically it would be better as an input stage for the OSSC so you can still optimally sample the original source
How's the comb filter going to perform on that unit?
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by BuckoA51 »

No no no, I was asking Bucko if there was any plans for an HDMI or DVI solution, the OSSC does not have any HDMI or DVI inputs, so you can not plug any HDMI or DVI inputs in it directly, following me so far? So I was asking if there were any plans for a device similar to the Koryuu but one that offered HDMI and/or DVI inputs instead of Composite and S-Video.
Such converters are already readily available, I have two HD Fury Nano's in my setup, one for HDMI input and one for HDMI output from my HDMI matrix. This allows me to double up an OSSC as a component to RGBS transcoder for my old CRT monitor too.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by maxtherabbit »

orange808 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
SamIAm wrote:http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

2000 yen. Turns composite into RGB.
that looks bad ass - it's transcoding in analog too so theoretically it would be better as an input stage for the OSSC so you can still optimally sample the original source
How's the comb filter going to perform on that unit?
good question

the comb filter is built into the M52042FP IC, so I would say it's probably at least ok - we don't have to rely on the board designers getting it right
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by orange808 »

Good information. If that Mitsubishi is like their other products, I expect it looks sharp, but shows a lot of dot crawl.

Let's just say that: svideo support is the important feature we want from Koryuu. We should avoid using composite whenever possible, but it will be great to have another option when svideo isn't available. (Composite video is substandard and frustrating by nature.)

I'm looking forward to the Koryuu.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by SamIAm »

There is another Japan-only product that converts S-Video to RGB called the YR-421. It was actually made by Sony in the late 80s for certain models of their Profeel Pro monitors that didn't have S-Video inputs built in. You can only buy it via auction anymore, but if you're patient, it can be had for 1000-2000 yen, and listings appear surprisingly often.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w351139563

I have one of these and it's...OK. To be honest, when running a comparison on a pro monitor that has both S-Video and RGB inputs, the monitor's built-in S-Video inputs are obviously better, even after having recapped the YR-421. Nonetheless, if I were stuck with one monitor that didn't have S-Video inputs, I'd be very happy to have it.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by maxtherabbit »

SamIAm wrote:There is another Japan-only product that converts S-Video to RGB called the YR-421. It was actually made by Sony in the late 80s for certain models of their Profeel Pro monitors that didn't have S-Video inputs built in. You can only buy it via auction anymore, but if you're patient, it can be had for 1000-2000 yen, and listings appear surprisingly often.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w351139563

I have one of these and it's...OK. To be honest, when running a comparison on a pro monitor that has both S-Video and RGB inputs, the monitor's built-in S-Video inputs are obviously better, even after having recapped the YR-421. Nonetheless, if I were stuck with one monitor that didn't have S-Video inputs, I'd be very happy to have it.
what about the CVBS one you linked previously, have any first hand experience with that one?
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by SamIAm »

maxtherabbit wrote:
SamIAm wrote:There is another Japan-only product that converts S-Video to RGB called the YR-421. It was actually made by Sony in the late 80s for certain models of their Profeel Pro monitors that didn't have S-Video inputs built in. You can only buy it via auction anymore, but if you're patient, it can be had for 1000-2000 yen, and listings appear surprisingly often.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w351139563

I have one of these and it's...OK. To be honest, when running a comparison on a pro monitor that has both S-Video and RGB inputs, the monitor's built-in S-Video inputs are obviously better, even after having recapped the YR-421. Nonetheless, if I were stuck with one monitor that didn't have S-Video inputs, I'd be very happy to have it.
what about the CVBS one you linked previously, have any first hand experience with that one?
Nope, not that one.

Here's an interesting thing, though: See how it says "Ver.2" in the listing? The first version was sold as a kit that you had to assemble yourself, but it was designed around the CXA1621S, and even though the kit didn't include the necessary components, it's apparently very easy to add in S-Video. It pops up on Yahoo auctions every now and then, or at least it did a couple years ago.

According to this page, the Ver.2 composite converter was initially designed to work with a specific tuner, and there is a jumper that lets you choose between standard 75 ohm termination and something else that you should be careful to set. Also, there is a pot for adjusting contrast on the output. No word on overall quality, though.

I'm really curious how much they're going to ask for this Koryuu unit. In addition to the cheap options I've mentioned, there does exist ex-broadcasting equipment that will do the same job. I've seen this one at less than half this price before:

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w279561541
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by fernan1234 »

SamIAm wrote:There is another Japan-only product that converts S-Video to RGB called the YR-421. It was actually made by Sony in the late 80s for certain models of their Profeel Pro monitors that didn't have S-Video inputs built in. You can only buy it via auction anymore, but if you're patient, it can be had for 1000-2000 yen, and listings appear surprisingly often.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w351139563

I have one of these and it's...OK. To be honest, when running a comparison on a pro monitor that has both S-Video and RGB inputs, the monitor's built-in S-Video inputs are obviously better, even after having recapped the YR-421. Nonetheless, if I were stuck with one monitor that didn't have S-Video inputs, I'd be very happy to have it.
Does it respect 240p S-video, outputting it as 240p RGB, or is it like many other converters that also process and output it as 480i?
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by maxtherabbit »

SamIAm wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
SamIAm wrote:There is another Japan-only product that converts S-Video to RGB called the YR-421. It was actually made by Sony in the late 80s for certain models of their Profeel Pro monitors that didn't have S-Video inputs built in. You can only buy it via auction anymore, but if you're patient, it can be had for 1000-2000 yen, and listings appear surprisingly often.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w351139563

I have one of these and it's...OK. To be honest, when running a comparison on a pro monitor that has both S-Video and RGB inputs, the monitor's built-in S-Video inputs are obviously better, even after having recapped the YR-421. Nonetheless, if I were stuck with one monitor that didn't have S-Video inputs, I'd be very happy to have it.
what about the CVBS one you linked previously, have any first hand experience with that one?
Nope, not that one.

Here's an interesting thing, though: See how it says "Ver.2" in the listing? The first version was sold as a kit that you had to assemble yourself, but it was designed around the CXA1621S, and even though the kit didn't include the necessary components, it's apparently very easy to add in S-Video. It pops up on Yahoo auctions every now and then, or at least it did a couple years ago.

According to this page, the Ver.2 composite converter was initially designed to work with a specific tuner, and there is a jumper that lets you choose between standard 75 ohm termination and something else that you should be careful to set. Also, there is a pot for adjusting contrast on the output. No word on overall quality, though.

I'm really curious how much they're going to ask for this Koryuu unit. In addition to the cheap options I've mentioned, there does exist ex-broadcasting equipment that will do the same job. I've seen this one at less than half this price before:

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w279561541
what interests me about that version 2 unit, is that essentially the entire decoding circuit is on the mitsubishi IC

being that it was designed by mitsubishi, I would lean toward it being well implemented vs. something someone just cooked up in their spare time
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by SamIAm »

Are any specifics about how the Koryuu works known yet?

When I was investigating this stuff a couple of years ago, I remember finding that you could still buy ICs like the M5204FP (though not that one specifically) in bulk from certain suppliers. It looked to me like an enterprising individual could easily pick a bunch of those up, follow the designs in the datasheet exactly, and create a simple CVBS/S-Video converter just like this Koryuu unit (though probably outputting RGB) to sell with very little overhead in parts.

EDIT: Just googling around, they're definitely still available, and for around $3-$4 a pop.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by SamIAm »

fernan1234 wrote:Does it respect 240p S-video, outputting it as 240p RGB, or is it like many other converters that also process and output it as 480i?
Sorry, missed this.

It respects 240p. I can't remember the part number at the moment, but the YR-421 is centered on an IC that was used in televisions at the time for the same purpose of converting S-Video (or composite, I suppose) to RGB. It doesn't buffer or process the signal digitally or whatever; it's a simple, straight analogue decoder. After all, this was the late 80s.

Sync output is still sync-on-luma, though. I had to mod in an LM1881 inside mine to make it work with my matrix switch.
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Re: Koryuu (Composite & S-Video to YPbPr Transcoder) Coming

Post by fernan1234 »

SamIAm wrote:Sorry, missed this.

It respects 240p. I can't remember the part number at the moment, but the YR-421 is centered on an IC that was used in televisions at the time for the same purpose of converting S-Video (or composite, I suppose) to RGB. It doesn't buffer or process the signal digitally or whatever; it's a simple, straight analogue decoder. After all, this was the late 80s.

Sync output is still sync-on-luma, though. I had to mod in an LM1881 inside mine to make it work with my matrix switch.
Thanks.

I have exactly one machine that I'd be interested to pair with something like this, a PC-FX, which only does S-video at best. I hook it up directly to a BVM with Y/C input and it looks very nice, but of course less sharp and a colors bit duller than RGB would. If a converter like this adequately separates the color signals for the monitor, I'd imagine the result would be an improvement over direct S-video.
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