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 Post subject: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:52 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Hi Guys
Looking to see if there are any crt gurus on here who can help me out.
I have been working on getting s-video working on an old trinitron crt. The jungle chip doesn't look to have any rgb inputs but it does have Luma and Chroma.
The one i am modding is the smaller one pictured below which only came with an rf antenna input.

Image

Model number : KV1414AS
Jungle : CXA-1213S
GP-1A chassis

No service manual could be found for this exact model but this one is basically the same
https://elektrotanya.com/sony_kv-2170m3_2193m3_2184mt_2194mt-ch.gp-1a.pdf/download.html
This tv has the same jungle with an s-video input
https://elektrotanya.com/sony_gp-1a_kv-2965.pdf/download.html
Jungle datasheet
https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/115335/SONY/CXA1213AS.html

I have tried the configuration that the s-video tv uses in the second link above but only got a black screen with the green channel number showing.
The only setup where i got any success was inserting the Luma and Chroma directly from the s-video port into the jungle which results in the image below. I was told this could be sync related but not entirely for sure. It's trying to show the title screen of snes dk2.

Image

Can anyone offer any advice on what they might try? Happy to provide more info/schematics etc. Just trying to not let this initial post get too long.
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:23 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
Did you run 75 ohm termination in your luma?
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"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:15 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
No, could this be the issue? I basically i have replaced the Y C lines and kept with the same configuration the tv uses. Here is a diagram of what i have setup.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:27 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
Image

If I were going straight to the jungle I’d go luma 75R to ground, capacitor, jungle.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:07 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Thanks you. So i tried that for luma with a 100uF in series but got a black screen. I can see in your diagram there is also a 75R to ground for chroma so i tried that and now i have colour showing in the scrambled output as seen in the my pic above, so we are getting closer. I keep thinking i need to also connect luma somewhere for sync but i am not sure where. The jungle doesn't appear to have a sync input pin. It does have sync out and hsync in and vsync in though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:40 pm 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
I got it working. As i suspected it wasn't using the sync signal on the luma pin. I fed luma into the video signal coming from the tuner block and got a picture. I also switched to a 0.1uf on chroma. The difference is huge from how it looked before. I can post more details if anyone is interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:46 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
jeffez wrote:
I got it working. As i suspected it wasn't using the sync signal on the luma pin. I fed luma into the video signal coming from the tuner block and got a picture. I also switched to a 0.1uf on chroma. The difference is huge from how it looked before. I can post more details if anyone is interested.


Nice.

Would love to see more details/some photos.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:46 pm 


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jeffez wrote:
I got it working. As i suspected it wasn't using the sync signal on the luma pin. I fed luma into the video signal coming from the tuner block and got a picture. I also switched to a 0.1uf on chroma. The difference is huge from how it looked before. I can post more details if anyone is interested.


I did say to try that in the other thread, surely?

It's easy to give armchair advice, but you're the man on the ground, so nice job on this one. Please post up (in both places) with the circuit you got working :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:01 pm 


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Joined: 31 Jul 2017
Posts: 169
Yeah this is a solid thread, please post as many pictures/further elaboration as you'd like.

I have a Zenith 13" I want to see about shooting S-video into since it's RF-only, but schematics are scarce and Zenith liked to march to the beat of their own drum.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:13 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
buttersoft wrote:
jeffez wrote:
I got it working. As i suspected it wasn't using the sync signal on the luma pin. I fed luma into the video signal coming from the tuner block and got a picture. I also switched to a 0.1uf on chroma. The difference is huge from how it looked before. I can post more details if anyone is interested.


I did say to try that in the other thread, surely?

It's easy to give armchair advice, but you're the man on the ground, so nice job on this one. Please post up (in both places) with the circuit you got working :)

You did yes sorry and that's why i tried it. I had to write on the assumption no one on here will have seen my AA thread. There was some other things i ended up trying first aswell as this one was going to be a harder to do.
I will definitely post up a schematic here and in AA once i have run some new wiring and done some better tests. I did get one photo which ill put up but it was hard to do as i was holding the luma wire for sync in place on the pcb at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:38 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
MarkOZLAD wrote:
jeffez wrote:
I got it working. As i suspected it wasn't using the sync signal on the luma pin. I fed luma into the video signal coming from the tuner block and got a picture. I also switched to a 0.1uf on chroma. The difference is huge from how it looked before. I can post more details if anyone is interested.


Nice.

Would love to see more details/some photos.


Bratwurst wrote:
Yeah this is a solid thread, please post as many pictures/further elaboration as you'd like.

I have a Zenith 13" I want to see about shooting S-video into since it's RF-only, but schematics are scarce and Zenith liked to march to the beat of their own drum.


Happy to, i wasn't expecting all that much interest since this isn't RGB but i think s-video holds up well and worth it on an rf only set. I'll have a schematic in the next day or so. I still need to figure out audio as well.

The blur in the top left might have just been the camera focus. Was hard to get a good pic as i was holding a wire in place at the same time.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:37 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
jeffez wrote:
Happy to, i wasn't expecting all that much interest since this isn't RGB but i think s-video holds up well and worth it on an rf only set. I'll have a schematic in the next day or so. I still need to figure out audio as well.


I'm interested in all sorts of mods for CRT. I've found modding for S-Vid and Component to be a lot of fun too.

I seem to learn something from everyone I help mod.

Forcing AV and auto switch on mods to allow use for arcade are also interest me.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:01 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
I searched my records and found a complete datasheet for the CXA1213AS
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:20 am 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Wow great job! Looks awesome! So I'm assuming that fringe artifacts are non existent now after bypassing the tuner?

Also can you take a picture of your work? Thanks!

I'm thinking this mod should done to my KV-1926RA


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:44 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Finally got time to do some more work and testing.
Here is a schematic. I also added composite with what should be a DPDT twitch. Some of these components are already on the tv pcb but i added them on here to show the whole circuit from the video port to jungle ic. It's not shown but the video signal also may need to be cut from the tuner so it doesn't interfere with sync. See next diagram.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:08 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
The underlying schematic is taken from link 1 page 17 on the OP. It's rough but shows what i did. I won't claim this is the best/correct way it's just what i have working.
I'm running my wiring under the pcb so to bypass the rf lines i cut some traces (i know some people aren't into that) but the same thing can be achieved from the top by lifting two resistor legs and one IC pin on the jungle.

Maybe this could be improved if there's a way to put the tv in AV mode? The CXA1213AS jungle chip is used in other TVs which have composite input. Being rf only this tv can't go into AV mode stock but maybe this can be bypassed? This would simplify the mod as you wouldn't have to remove the Chrome and Luma out of the circuit when when running s-video. This may not be an option for really old sets though with jungle chips that were only ever used in rf only tvs.

Image


Last edited by jeffez on Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
freakaftr8 wrote:
Wow great job! Looks awesome! So I'm assuming that fringe artifacts are non existent now after bypassing the tuner?

Also can you take a picture of your work? Thanks!

I'm thinking this mod should done to my KV-1926RA

Thanks. I'm a bit new to all this and i couldn't find what fringe artifacts are but i'll put up some photos comparing rf/composite/s-video.
Right now i just have everything running through a bread board and haven't installed any ports on the tv yet but i can put up photos of that for now if at all useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:55 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Slight problem i tried using a sega saturn and it's not working properly. Colour is gone and h and v sync is drifting. I wen't back and made sure it still worked with the snes. I then tried with another snes and it worked. I tried with both a model 1 and model 2 saturn and it had the same problem. I can only conclude there is something different between how a snes and sega saturn output s-video.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:10 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
Some comparison photos

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:08 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
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Location: Québec City
Awesome mod, well done OP.

Those sets look just like the North American KV-xxTS20/TS30, which use the same tube as PVM-2030/2530, and most of the same circuit picture enhancement. been considering picking up a KV-27TS30 for a while actually (the TS30 does S-video natively. But modding a TS20 would be cool and would give it a new lease on life)
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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron S-Video Mod
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:25 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 14
FinalBaton wrote:
Awesome mod, well done OP.

Those sets look just like the North American KV-xxTS20/TS30, which use the same tube as PVM-2030/2530, and most of the same circuit picture enhancement. been considering picking up a KV-27TS30 for a while actually (the TS30 does S-video natively. But modding a TS20 would be cool and would give it a new lease on life)

Thanks there's still more work for me to do when i get time. As mentioned testing with a sega saturn (480i?) had problems. I think maybe sync could be injected somewhere better. Also there must be a way to blank out the video coming from the stock rf which would mean no need to cut the C and Y lines.

Those sets you mention must be from a similar family of TVs. Looks like they have a CXA1013S jungle (slightly older?) and basically the same circuitry with the C and Y lines. That's cool to know some older PVMs used the same tube. Such a great screen being restricted with only an antenna input.


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