I prefer HD15 over SCART

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Post Reply
shmupsrocks
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:53 pm

I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by shmupsrocks »

I seem to prefer the HD15 connection between my HAS supergun and OSSC. SCART looks a little sharper but with HD15 the colors are more rich and pleasing and lag seems very slightly lower. Anyone else?
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by fernan1234 »

edit: oops, read topic title as DB15 somehow. Editing post to avoid generating confusion.
Last edited by fernan1234 on Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by Syntax »

The other day I arced out my HAS 5v PSU by plugging in the supplied Saturn controller adapter wonky.

The steel edge can be a conductor between power pins and ground and fry stuff thats why its design was ditched.

HDMI or USB 3.0 is a better option. But then you get confused which ones for analog video or data ect
User avatar
6t8k
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:44 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by 6t8k »

Judging by the title I first thought you meant the physical connector types, hah.

Hypothetically speaking, if everything that is SCART now would become HD15 overnight, then I'd prefer HD15 instantly. SCART just feels so flimsy and a plugged in connector is easily crooked. Though I'm not going to gloss over the advantage that the plug has some extra space for components.
User avatar
Bratwurst
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:09 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by Bratwurst »

HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
nmalinoski
Posts: 1974
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by nmalinoski »

Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
While I agree, I don't think there are really that many people building their own cables, so this problem has a fairly small scope; and I don't think some mild difficulty with assembly would outweigh any of the advantages or usability of DE-15 over SCART.
NJRoadfan
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:01 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by NJRoadfan »

Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
They make crimp style HD-15 connectors. Just crimp the pins to the wire and insert into the shell.
User avatar
buttersoft
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:49 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by buttersoft »

NJRoadfan wrote:
Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
They make crimp style HD-15 connectors. Just crimp the pins to the wire and insert into the shell.
I know they exist but I can never find the damn things!
User avatar
Lawfer
Posts: 2283
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:30 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by Lawfer »

I prefer BNC over SCART and RCA.

Seriously SCART and RCA connectors gets worn out very easily when you hook/unhook them, I haven't used HD15 for anything other than older PC monitors way back and hardly ever hooked/unhooked, so I dunno how sturdy it is of a connection.
User avatar
citrus3000psi
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:56 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by citrus3000psi »

Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
I created a little board to help with that.

https://twitter.com/citrus3000psi/statu ... 4634959873

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/wBtrk34t
User avatar
buttersoft
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:49 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by buttersoft »

citrus3000psi wrote:
Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
I created a little board to help with that.

https://twitter.com/citrus3000psi/statu ... 4634959873

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/wBtrk34t

Errr, doesn't that PCB design wire pin 9 (VGA +5V) directly into all the ground pins? Or am i looking at it wrong...
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

buttersoft wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote:
Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
I created a little board to help with that.

https://twitter.com/citrus3000psi/statu ... 4634959873

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/wBtrk34t

Errr, doesn't that PCB design wire pin 9 (VGA +5V) directly into all the ground pins? Or am i looking at it wrong...
Looks like it, that's bad mmkay
User avatar
citrus3000psi
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:56 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by citrus3000psi »

buttersoft wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote:
Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
I created a little board to help with that.

https://twitter.com/citrus3000psi/statu ... 4634959873

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/wBtrk34t

Errr, doesn't that PCB design wire pin 9 (VGA +5V) directly into all the ground pins? Or am i looking at it wrong...

Thanks for notifying me, I pulled the design down. I did a quick google search on VGA pinout and some diagrams had pin 9 grounded. Must have been my issue or I just really made a dumb mistake.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

citrus3000psi wrote:

Thanks for notifying me, I pulled the design down. I did a quick google search on VGA pinout and some diagrams had pin 9 grounded. Must have been my issue or I just really made a dumb mistake.
Some really old VGA cards did in fact tie pin 9 to ground. I'm guessing the diagrams you found were from people just buzzing out those cards.

It's really dumb and bad and screwed up the first revision of my inline LPF design. I didn't even realise it was a thing until I sold a prototype for beta testing. Regardless I appreciate you fixing it
User avatar
mikejmoffitt
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by mikejmoffitt »

Tying pin 9 to ground as the source (PCB, console, computer, etc) is fine, since the source provides the +5V voltage. Neither sink (monitor, consumptive device) nor cable should tie pin 9 to ground, as it would normally consume or ignore the +5V.
Image
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

mikejmoffitt wrote:Tying pin 9 to ground as the source (PCB, console, computer, etc) is fine, since the source provides the +5V voltage. Neither sink (monitor, consumptive device) nor cable should tie pin 9 to ground, as it would normally consume or ignore the +5V.
it's not fine if you're trying to make in inline device that ties its power rail to the +5 pin and has an option for external power

I get what you're saying, most of the time it would never cause an issue, but it's still bad practice to ground it at the source. Just leave it floating if you don't intend to provide power on the pin, there's literally no reason not to
thchardcore
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Liberal cesspool

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by thchardcore »

nmalinoski wrote:
Bratwurst wrote:HD15 is not fun to solder to. Scart has nice big spaced out connections and is cool and good.
While I agree, I don't think there are really that many people building their own cables, so this problem has a fairly small scope; and I don't think some mild difficulty with assembly would outweigh any of the advantages or usability of DE-15 over SCART.

You can make some pretty great cables with old OEM vga cables from Dell/Sony/etc. They are usually very high grade and shielded.
A camel is a horse designed by a committee
shmupsrocks
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by shmupsrocks »

I bet this is what I'm preferring about the HD15 connection vs SCART:
AV3 is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (the AV1 and AV2 inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip).
So *possibly* the LPF chip is responsible for creating a sharper image but sucks some life out of the colors and adds a small amount of lag.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

shmupsrocks wrote:I bet this is what I'm preferring about the HD15 connection vs SCART:
AV3 is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (the AV1 and AV2 inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip).
So *possibly* the LPF chip is responsible for creating a sharper image but sucks some life out of the colors and adds a small amount of lag.
no

1) LPFs do not sharpen the image, they do the opposite of that
2) it's a THS7353, it does not have any deleterious effect on color reproduction
3) it absolutely does not add lag


bypassing the THS7353 by using AV3 allows for a slightly higher video bandwidth to maintain sharpness when digitizing input resolutions greater than 1080p, that's it
User avatar
buttersoft
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:49 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by buttersoft »

mikejmoffitt wrote:Tying pin 9 to ground as the source (PCB, console, computer, etc) is fine, since the source provides the +5V voltage. Neither sink (monitor, consumptive device) nor cable should tie pin 9 to ground, as it would normally consume or ignore the +5V.
Is it? Won't the power draw just spike on the short circuit? Like if you bridge USB +5V to ground, or one of the data lines, your mobo will just go into overcurrent protection and shut down. Is the VGA +5V rail separate? I would imagine a VGA port was less protected, being legacy, so you might actually blow something up.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

buttersoft wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:Tying pin 9 to ground as the source (PCB, console, computer, etc) is fine, since the source provides the +5V voltage. Neither sink (monitor, consumptive device) nor cable should tie pin 9 to ground, as it would normally consume or ignore the +5V.
Is it? Won't the power draw just spike on the short circuit? Like if you bridge USB +5V to ground, or one of the data lines, your mobo will just go into overcurrent protection and shut down. Is the VGA +5V rail separate? I would imagine a VGA port was less protected, being legacy, so you might actually blow something up.
what he is saying is that if the source device doesn't ever put +5 on the pin to begin with there won't be any current to sink to ground
User avatar
mikejmoffitt
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by mikejmoffitt »

Honestly, I think an in-line device isn't really doing the job of a sink any more, unless its output is actually isolated from the input (including pin 9), so I wouldn't tie it there anyway. I agree nothing should be tying it and should let it float, in any case.

In my experience, the VGA cable ends up getting quite warm when a monitor erroneously has 5V tied to ground. There is likely a current-limiting resistor in the source.
Image
User avatar
buttersoft
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:49 am

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by buttersoft »

mikejmoffitt wrote:In my experience, the VGA cable ends up getting quite warm when a monitor erroneously has 5V tied to ground. There is likely a current-limiting resistor in the source.
You know i've never found a monitor that did that. Never even heard that pin 9 might be ground. It used to be part of the Key pin setup, didn't it, before it was 5V? I have noticed that a lot of HD15 extension cables leave out pin9 from the male end entirely. That way you can't get into trouble, i guess. I use it for blanking and power sometimes, so i'd want it added to any breakout.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by maxtherabbit »

mikejmoffitt wrote:Honestly, I think an in-line device isn't really doing the job of a sink any more, unless its output is actually isolated from the input (including pin 9), so I wouldn't tie it there anyway. I agree nothing should be tying it and should let it float, in any case.

In my experience, the VGA cable ends up getting quite warm when a monitor erroneously has 5V tied to ground. There is likely a current-limiting resistor in the source.
I ended up adding a DIP switch to isolate the device power rail from pin 9 in/out if external power is being used

I still want to help raise awareness to prevent devices grounding pin 9 at any point, because its just silly and unhelpful
User avatar
mikejmoffitt
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by mikejmoffitt »

buttersoft wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:In my experience, the VGA cable ends up getting quite warm when a monitor erroneously has 5V tied to ground. There is likely a current-limiting resistor in the source.
You know i've never found a monitor that did that. Never even heard that pin 9 might be ground. It used to be part of the Key pin setup, didn't it, before it was 5V? I have noticed that a lot of HD15 extension cables leave out pin9 from the male end entirely. That way you can't get into trouble, i guess. I use it for blanking and power sometimes, so i'd want it added to any breakout.
My writing was unclear - in this case, it was a harness someone else had crimped by hand, going from HD15 to the 6-pin JST connector used for RGB on most Nanao monitors.
Image
MarkOZLAD
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 12:39 pm

Re: I prefer HD15 over SCART

Post by MarkOZLAD »

I prefer almost anything over scart....
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
Post Reply