Current 31 to 15 kHz downscale solutions

[Hoagtech]

I’m in a pickle between buying a New Astro City and Blast City and the quality may be better on the NAC.

I would like to review the current options of downscaling.

I have heard of the elusive Extron Emotia but cannot seem to find a way to buy one.

The Corio one the way I see it: has certain models that are better than others and require precise settings to obtain downscale.

What is the best/approachable option for scaling 480+ down to 15 kHz?

[Fudoh]

technically 15khz includes 480i and there are tons of REALLY cheap VGA to 480i converters out there, but let's assume you want a 240p output.

There aren't really any new solutions out there. The classics are the Emotia series (old, rare, expensive, but 100% plug and play) and the Ultracade UVC (rare, not this expensive, plug and play, 24khz output available which is great if you're feeding true 480p "hi-res" games). Then there's the Genius II unit (expensive, but still available new).

On the scaler side, which "happen to be able to output 240p" you have the iScan HD and HD+ (rather affordable and not this rare) and the said Corio II machines (not this cheap any more, but still rather easily available).

My guesses at the current prices would be $250 (Emotia), $100 (UVC), $350 (Genius II), $150 (iScan HD/HD+), $150-250 (Corio 2 machines).

For use in an actual cab, I'd suggest you look for a UVC, especially because of its 384p 24khz output cabability. They show up on ebay, or a try a WTB thread here on the board.

[Fudoh]

Emotia and UVC are covered here: http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
Genius II review: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/mimo.html
UVC board thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33659
Corio2 board thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63226&hilit=corio2
iScan downscaling thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53807&hilit=iscan+240p

[Hoagtech]

technically 15khz includes 480i and there are tons of REALLY cheap VGA to 480i converters out there, but let's assume you want a 240p output.

There aren't really any new solutions out there. The classics are the Emotia series (old, rare, expensive, but 100% plug and play) and the Ultracade UVC (rare, not this expensive, plug and play, 24khz output available which is great if you're feeding true 480p "hi-res" games). Then there's the Genius II unit (expensive, but still available new).

On the scaler side, which "happen to be able to output 240p" you have the iScan HD and HD+ (rather affordable and not this rare) and the said Corio II machines (not this cheap any more, but still rather easily available).

My guesses at the current prices would be $250 (Emotia), $100 (UVC), $350 (Genius II), $150 (iScan HD/HD+), $150-250 (Corio 2 machines).

For use in an actual cab, I'd suggest you look for a UVC, especially because of its 384p 24khz output cabability. They show up on ebay, or a try a WTB thread here on the board.

I heard the genius adds input lag.

What’s the best option for low input lag and low blur. I have been burnt by iScan Micro before and their blurry image.

And can you elaborate on UVC? To me that’s an ultraviolet light .

[Fudoh]

I heard the genius adds input lag.

negliable, seriously.

What’s the best option for low input lag and low blur.
I have been burnt by iScan Micro before and their blurry image.

for downscaling it's about alignment (source pixels to output pixels). It's technically not as complicated as upscaling and all the available solutions do a pretty nice job.

And can you elaborate on UVC? To me that’s an ultraviolet light .

Just click on the links.... The UVC was a FPGA based downscaling board about 14 or 15 years ago. Pretty nice. If you have a dual-chassis setup in your cab (I think you do), then 384p is amazing when your sources are true 480p titles (as in true 480p resolution and not just doubled 240p).

What video sources are you thinking of?

[Hoagtech]

Thanks Fudoh btw. I just re read your reviews and would probably lean towards a Blast city still with OSSC on running AV3 for these circumstances.

I love the Emotia. Are the other options superior to it?

[fernan1234]

technically 15khz includes 480i and there are tons of REALLY cheap VGA to 480i converters out there

What's the best one you've found? I'm still trying to find a good one for things that output 480p at a minimum. I have an Extron VSC 500 which does alright but I feel like it could be better.

[orange808]

technically 15khz includes 480i and there are tons of REALLY cheap VGA to 480i converters out there

What's the best one you've found? I'm still trying to find a good one for things that output 480p at a minimum. I have an Extron VSC 500 which does alright but I feel like it could be better.

I don't think there is anything better.

The VSC 500 and VSC 700 use the same scaling and they are the best all around 480i scan converters I have owned.

They do a great job and they are easy to use. I wouldn't use anything else.

[Overkill]

I've had Emotia, UVC and Genius II and removed Emotia from the options. It's plug and play, but I can't stand the solariation effect on the image, lag I didn't notice anything. UVC is great, but because I don't have any cab anymore I sold it too, and I'm just presently using the MIMO Genius II, which is more hard to adjust image, but gives a great picture on screen.

I'm curious how the Corio2 compares with MIMO regarding image quality output.

[strygo]

One feature of the Genius II that sets it apart is its ability to handle 240p/480i signals as well. When playing something like a PS2, it's nice to not have to deal with signal drops when the system transitions between 480i and 480p.

[fernan1234]

The VSC 500 and VSC 700 use the same scaling and they are the best all around 480i scan converters I have owned.

In your experience does the "h filter" and "encoder"/sharpness control exclusive to the 700 make a difference? On the 500 reducing "filter" to 0 from the default 1 gives the best result on an SD or multiformat CRT, but I don't know if it's applying any h filter (at default 1) since it's not available to set on the 500. I'm wondering this since the converted 480i picture I get from the 500 is a bit softer than non-processed 480i from the same source.

[orange808]

The VSC 500 and VSC 700 use the same scaling and they are the best all around 480i scan converters I have owned.

In your experience does the "h filter" and "encoder"/sharpness control exclusive to the 700 make a difference? On the 500 reducing "filter" to 0 from the default 1 gives the best result on an SD or multiformat CRT, but I don't know if it's applying any h filter (at default 1) since it's not available to set on the 500. I'm wondering this since the converted 480i picture I get from the 500 is a bit softer than non-processed 480i from the same source.

Couldn't tell you without breaking out the VSC 500 and doing a comparison. Although, I doubt the difference is huge.

The VSC 700 can be had for very little with some patience, so there's no harm in buying one (when you find one at the right price). Just put it on your eBay search list and wait. I think they're worth $20usd.

[fernan1234]

Couldn't tell you without breaking out the VSC 500 and doing a comparison. Although, I doubt the difference is huge.

The VSC 700 can be had for very little with some patience, so there's no harm in buying one (when you find one at the right price). Just put it on your eBay search list and wait. I think they're worth $20usd.

That's alright. Maybe someone like Fudoh knows what the VSC 500 does, if anything at all, with h filter and sharpening given that there are no controls for those.

[Classicgamer]

I have an ultracade UVC. Personally I don't think these do a great job in terms of image clarity on their own. If you use them with an rgb interface with vertical image adjustment, you can improve it a little.

I got the UVC because I use a tri-sync arcade monitor and thought it would be nice to output Sega Rally and Daytona on the PS3 in 24khz. It wasn't. I think I was just too used to groovymame with CRT EMU. It's hard to beat outputting every game in it's native res and refresh rate. Games look noticeably clearer than via a downscaler.

If you are really particular about image clarity, a PC with GM is the way to go for emulated 240p games. If you have to use a downscaler, I'd go with the Genius 2 if you have the cash. I only used one once but it was a little clearer if I remember right.

What console is it for?

[Hoagtech]

I have an ultracade UVC. Personally I don't think these do a great job in terms of image clarity on their own. If you use them with an rgb interface with vertical image adjustment, you can improve it a little.

I got the UVC because I use a tri-sync arcade monitor and thought it would be nice to output Sega Rally and Daytona on the PS3 in 24khz. It wasn't. I think I was just too used to groovymame with CRT EMU. It's hard to beat outputting every game in it's native res and refresh rate. Games look noticeably clearer than via a downscaler.

If you are really particular about image clarity, a PC with GM is the way to go for emulated 240p games. If you have to use a downscaler, I'd go with the Genius 2 if you have the cash. I only used one once but it was a little clearer if I remember right.

What console is it for?

its for a Blast City Cab.

These are the ones that I bought.






I am going love these cabs..

I want to Jamma the shooters on console that are 31Khz. Like Metal slug 7, Sharp X68000, and some OSSC Gradius iterations.

[kitty666cats]

The Dido Jr can do this as well, right? There's probably a decent assortment of other obscure devices out there that can be configured to do the elusive 240p downscale, eBay is filled with boundless lesser-known units. This adventure to find more should carry on! I have modded GBS8200 w/ GBScontrol, so I've already got a 240p downscaling-capable device, but there's a whole wide world of other odd stuff out there

I needed a new scan converter, so I ordered a Vine Micros CorioScan Pro (inventors of the Corio scaling tech, they got absorbed by TVone obviously). Of interest to me is that they have one particular scan converter, the CorioScan Pro SG, that accepts 15kHz inputs! O_o;

Mine accepts 24kHz minimum, but I intend to keep an eye out for a cheap SG unit one of these days! I'm not at all making the assumption that the one I ordered may possibly provide 240p, but that one with the option for 15kHz input makes me wonder. Perhaps their flicker filter may provide interesting results when fed a signal that's already 480i to begin with...