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 Post subject: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:03 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
i cant find the answer anywhere so far.
does anyone have experience with this? you can assume the BC PS3 is hooked up to a CRT, not an hdtv.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:42 pm 



Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 67
Location: Maryland
Yes, you can.

To see it in action there's a quick mention of it in My Life in Gaming's PlayStation 2 - RGB 210 video, around the 47 minute mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:35 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
I know it works but, if you try it, please let us know if it lets you play any of the Time Crisis games in 480p?

That's the one thing that let's down the Playstation versions of those games. The PS2 was 480p capable. The TC arcades were 480p but the PS versions were limited to 480i...


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:23 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1545
Classicgamer wrote:
I know it works but, if you try it, please let us know if it lets you play any of the Time Crisis games in 480p?

That's the one thing that let's down the Playstation versions of those games. The PS2 was 480p capable. The TC arcades were 480p but the PS versions were limited to 480i...

I don't think a backwards-compatible PS3 is going to let you play Time Crisis in 480p. 480p RGB out of the PS3 is, like the PS2, RGsB, so you won't have the 15kHz composite video or luma (or clean composite sync) needed for the light guns. You could try splitting/duplicating green (or luma, if you're using YPbPr), but I wouldn't expect those guns to work on 31kHz sync.

I imagine the only way you might be able to do it is if you had some sort of device that could fit inline with the analogue output, read green/luma, and generate a 15kHz sync signal at the same framerate, without introducing any lag.

Additionally, if no timing problems arise from forcing those games into other modes, I would expect such a device would also work to get these games playable on a PS2.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:28 am 


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Classicgamer wrote:
I know it works but, if you try it, please let us know if it lets you play any of the Time Crisis games in 480p?

That's the one thing that let's down the Playstation versions of those games. The PS2 was 480p capable. The TC arcades were 480p but the PS versions were limited to 480i...


All Namco PS2 games can be played on a deinterlaced progressive TV set though. Looks great, Just need 2 point calibration.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:29 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
Getting 480p rgb from the PS3 is no issue (I do it all the time) and the guncon does not need a clean sync to work, or 480i.

The standard ps2 guncon set-up uses sync on composite video. It also works with composite sync, sync on green and using the component video green cable. I.e. Not sync fussy at all.

The issue is that the PS3 essentially becomes a PS2 when playing PS2 games. It switches to the built in PS2 hardware. On the PS2, 480p is activated in the software (of compatible games) and games like Time Crisis 2 and 3 have no progressive scan option. On the PS3, you can set the output resolution in the general system settings menu to match your TV. I.e if you tell it your monitor only accepts 480p, it outputs everything in 480p, regardless if the game box says 720p or 1080i.

The question is if the backward compatible PS3 behaves like a PS2 or PS3 in this respect. According to this Youtube Video, it looks like the PS3 can output PS2 games (with no progressive scan option) in 480p:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrJkXzflmE

So, if anyone has one to try and a 480p crt, please let us know if Time Crisis 2 and 3 can be played in 480p.

The GC2 definitely works in 480p as I've used it to play Time Crisis on my Mame pc at native res. If an HDMI to VGA adapter is used to get 480p RGB, I suspect a custom cable is needed for the GC2 sync cable. I think using the HDMI disable the multi video out port.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:34 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
Syntax wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I know it works but, if you try it, please let us know if it lets you play any of the Time Crisis games in 480p?

That's the one thing that let's down the Playstation versions of those games. The PS2 was 480p capable. The TC arcades were 480p but the PS versions were limited to 480i...


All Namco PS2 games can be played on a deinterlaced progressive TV set though. Looks great, Just need 2 point calibration.


Are you talking about TV's that upscale?

I can't find a way to switch any of the Namco GC2 games to 480p on the PS2. I use tri-sync crt arcade monitors capable of native 480p. I can switch to progressive mode on the few PS2 games that support it but not on the GC2 games. How are you doing it?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:35 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
Ive tried forced 480p PS2 Namco titles on multiple screens/monitors using Csync as the guns sync.
Also tried combining H and V sync.

Nothing worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:37 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
Classicgamer wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I know it works but, if you try it, please let us know if it lets you play any of the Time Crisis games in 480p?

That's the one thing that let's down the Playstation versions of those games. The PS2 was 480p capable. The TC arcades were 480p but the PS versions were limited to 480i...


All Namco PS2 games can be played on a deinterlaced progressive TV set though. Looks great, Just need 2 point calibration.


Are you talking about TV's that upscale?

I can't find a way to switch any of the Namco GC2 games to 480p on the PS2. I use tri-sync crt arcade monitors capable of native 480p. I can switch to progressive mode on the few PS2 games that support it but not on the GC2 games. How are you doing it?


Your supposed to aim the gun off screen, hold select and pull the trigger in calibration mode. This put it into progressive 2 point calibration mode.

But really every single deinterlaced set its worked on for me the gun automatically picks up the different sync and auto switches to 2 point calibration mode.

The games themselves do not output in 480p. They can be forced with OPL but the guns dont work.

I have no idea what these Sony or LG sets im using are doing but they call it progressive mode and its sharp like 240p 480p soo..


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:50 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
RottenToTheGore wrote:
Yes, you can.

To see it in action there's a quick mention of it in My Life in Gaming's PlayStation 2 - RGB 210 video, around the 47 minute mark.


thank GOD!! now I don't need to buy a PS2. ty!!


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:59 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
Classicgamer wrote:
Getting 480p rgb from the PS3 is no issue (I do it all the time) and the guncon does not need a clean sync to work, or 480i.

The standard ps2 guncon set-up uses sync on composite video. It also works with composite sync, sync on green and using the component video green cable. I.e. Not sync fussy at all.

The issue is that the PS3 essentially becomes a PS2 when playing PS2 games. It switches to the built in PS2 hardware. On the PS2, 480p is activated in the software (of compatible games) and games like Time Crisis 2 and 3 have no progressive scan option. On the PS3, you can set the output resolution in the general system settings menu to match your TV. I.e if you tell it your monitor only accepts 480p, it outputs everything in 480p, regardless if the game box says 720p or 1080i.

The question is if the backward compatible PS3 behaves like a PS2 or PS3 in this respect. According to this Youtube Video, it looks like the PS3 can output PS2 games (with no progressive scan option) in 480p:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrJkXzflmE

So, if anyone has one to try and a 480p crt, please let us know if Time Crisis 2 and 3 can be played in 480p.

The GC2 definitely works in 480p as I've used it to play Time Crisis on my Mame pc at native res. If an HDMI to VGA adapter is used to get 480p RGB, I suspect a custom cable is needed for the GC2 sync cable. I think using the HDMI disable the multi video out port.


I can try this if you want, in-case nobody else does. I play all my ps2 games in my BC PS3 to my PVM, but my BC PS3 is always in 480p mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:00 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
I always do the two point calibration but I can see on my Extron RGB interface that the games remain in 15khz.

The only ways to deinterlace 480i would be to double the frame rate (to make it 480p), switch to progressive 15khz 480p (I.e. 480p 30hz) or halving the res.

As far as I know, Guncons won't work on TV's that upscale as the timings have to be the same as the console is outputting.

I can't see much point in 480p 30hz as it usually looks worse than 480i 60hz even though they are both 30fps.

The only time I have seen the PS2 able to switch to 240p is on emulated 240p games like the Neo Geo collection. It's not available on any games made for the PS2.

So I guess I'm not clear on how you're getting a Guncon 2 game in 480p on a PS2?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:38 pm 


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Location: Australia
The PS2 signal is and always will be 15k for Namco lightgun games.

IDK, Whatever "Progressive scan mode" is it deinterlaces the PS2 480i signal and the guns still work with 2 point calibration. Connected via component.
Its available on many Trinitrons, and heaps of LG and Panasonic rear projection screens.


I should note you CAN do 2 point calibration on normal sync but there is little point. It wont help with accuracy. The guns require it when in the progressive mode, pretty sure the second shot is a sync timing calibration thing.

You know you have a set that can and is deinterlacing when the calibration screen automatically goes into 2 point.

100hz and Progressive are 2 separate modes.
The only 100hz sets that can run lightguns properly are ones with progressive mode that are not widescreen.

Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:47 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
So you're saying that the PS2 outputs 15khz 480i as normal but your TV processes it to 480p and the guns still work but only if you turn on 2 point calibration?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:01 pm 


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Location: Australia
Classicgamer wrote:
So you're saying that the PS2 outputs 15khz 480i as normal but your TV processes it to 480p and the guns still work but only if you turn on 2 point calibration?


Yes, The guns automatically put the game into 2 point calibration the second you point at the screen.

I have no idea why there is a way to force 2 point. Its only needed for screens it can auto switch to.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:46 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 873
Syntax wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
So you're saying that the PS2 outputs 15khz 480i as normal but your TV processes it to 480p and the guns still work but only if you turn on 2 point calibration?


Yes, The guns automatically put the game into 2 point calibration the second you point at the screen.

I have no idea why there is a way to force 2 point. Its only needed for screens it can auto switch to.


Maybe for screens it can't auto switch to. My tri-sync crt only switches to 480p or 384p if it is fed those signals. It has no digital interface for something like a PS2 to be fed info from. It's about as analog as it gets. There is no on-screen display. All the controls are pots and the mode switching is all done by relay.

If TC 2 and 3 works with your TV's built in deinterlacer, it would probably work with an external deinterlacer output to a 480p CRT. In that scenario you would need to manually set two point calibration.

Or, maybe it's a leftover feature from the arcade iso. As the TC3 arcade is essentially a PS2, I assume they reused most (or all) of the code. The arcade is identical except that it has 480p and 480i options. And the arcade can't allow for recalibration every time you switch players.

Or, maybe it's helpful for less accurate 3rd party guns. I'm curious to give it a try now.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:18 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
Classicgamer wrote:
Getting 480p rgb from the PS3 is no issue (I do it all the time) and the guncon does not need a clean sync to work, or 480i.

The standard ps2 guncon set-up uses sync on composite video. It also works with composite sync, sync on green and using the component video green cable. I.e. Not sync fussy at all.

The issue is that the PS3 essentially becomes a PS2 when playing PS2 games. It switches to the built in PS2 hardware. On the PS2, 480p is activated in the software (of compatible games) and games like Time Crisis 2 and 3 have no progressive scan option. On the PS3, you can set the output resolution in the general system settings menu to match your TV. I.e if you tell it your monitor only accepts 480p, it outputs everything in 480p, regardless if the game box says 720p or 1080i.

The question is if the backward compatible PS3 behaves like a PS2 or PS3 in this respect. According to this Youtube Video, it looks like the PS3 can output PS2 games (with no progressive scan option) in 480p:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrJkXzflmE

So, if anyone has one to try and a 480p crt, please let us know if Time Crisis 2 and 3 can be played in 480p.

The GC2 definitely works in 480p as I've used it to play Time Crisis on my Mame pc at native res. If an HDMI to VGA adapter is used to get 480p RGB, I suspect a custom cable is needed for the GC2 sync cable. I think using the HDMI disable the multi video out port.


yes my ps3 is usually set to 480p.
im using a rca y adapter to connect both green from component and the guncon's yellow cable into my extron's green port.
i have not been able to get it to work in 480p. Not trying time crisis but doing it with ninja assault. ninja assault works fine in 480i (meaning i set my ps3 to 480i in system settings). 480p will not display a crosshair in calibration mode. ive gotten it to display a crosshair before but that was when unplugging the yellow cable and shooting, but i cant get anywhere after doing that.

im well aware of the two point calibration and progressive scan options in guncon calibration mode. setting to two point does nothing in 480p. the weird thing is in 480i, i can set the calibration mode to progressive by aiming away and holding the trigger + B. this combination does not work when the ps3 is set to 480p though! so annoying.

i just havent been able to get this to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:40 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1011
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
yes my ps3 is usually set to 480p.
im using a rca y adapter to connect both green from component and the guncon's yellow cable into my extron's green port.
i have not been able to get it to work in 480p. Not trying time crisis but doing it with ninja assault. ninja assault works fine in 480i (meaning i set my ps3 to 480i in system settings). 480p will not display a crosshair in calibration mode. ive gotten it to display a crosshair before but that was when unplugging the yellow cable and shooting, but i cant get anywhere after doing that.

im well aware of the two point calibration and progressive scan options in guncon calibration mode. setting to two point does nothing in 480p. the weird thing is in 480i, i can set the calibration mode to progressive by aiming away and holding the trigger + B. this combination does not work when the ps3 is set to 480p though! so annoying.

i just havent been able to get this to work.


I haven't tried PS2 games on PS3, but I have extensively tried to get light gun games to work in 480p on both the PS2 and OG Xbox. Tried multiple multiformat (i.e. native 480p_ Sony PVM and BVM CRT's, a couple consumer HDCRT TV's, and PC CRT monitors - had zero luck pretty much everywhere, even with 2-point calibration. Weirdly enough I see other people getting it to work from time to time, including on some HDTV's which aren't even supposed to do 480p really (upscales everything to 540p or whatever). I honestly forget which PS2 games I could even get running 480p - know HotD 3 is in 480p on OG Xbox. ...I agree that this is super annoying as I would HIGHLY prefer 480p to 480i.

The only 480p light gun games on CRT's which I've gotten to work is Dreamcast games, and even then I use the term "to work" VERY loosely as the DC absolutely sucks accuracy-wise vs. any Guncon (hell, even the NES zapper is WAY more accurate lol).


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:41 pm 


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Location: Australia
You cant play them at 480p natively.
Only tv sets that can line double the image (LG dubbed Progressive Mode) and it's usually locked to component inputs here in Aus

Get a set that does this and if it works 2 point calibration will automatically show up on Namco titles.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:25 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
Syntax wrote:
You cant play them at 480p natively.
Only tv sets that can line double the image (LG dubbed Progressive Mode) and it's usually locked to component inputs here in Aus

Get a set that does this and if it works 2 point calibration will automatically show up on Namco titles.

so its safe to say that a PVM L series will not work with a ps3 forcing 480p on ps2 guncon games (such as vampire night and ninja assault)


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:10 pm 


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Most of the models in the L series don't support 480p to begin with; only the L5 can do higher than 480i.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:53 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
Guspaz wrote:
Most of the models in the L series don't support 480p to begin with; only the L5 can do higher than 480i.

i guess i meant the L5. it can do 480p yes, but doesn't seem to work with ps3s in 480p with ps2 guncon games.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible to play PS2 Lightgun games on a BC PS3?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:09 am 


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Location: Australia
To be honest I dont even know if it works in RGB. It absolutely will not work if you mod the video mode internally with OPL or something else on PS2/3.
Ive only got the it to work via component on LG TV sets that have progressive scan mode(Internal line doubler)

Maybe try something similar like a GBS linedoubler to a native 480p set. My only 480p monitor is dead atm so I cannot test this.
Only have a multi sync Sony that could do that but there's alot of processing in those.


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