Nvidia Takes a stab at integer scaling

[vol.2]

This is just an FYI, thought you ppl would be interested to know that the latest driver update has beta support for integer scaling. Instead of the release notes, I'll link this article because it's easier to see the features at a glance.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14765/nv ... g-and-more

[Thomago]

And for some bogus reason, it's only for Turing GPUs. What a shame.

[ZellSF]

Only if you don't also want to be able to use custom resolutions or DSR without changing your driver settings all the time.

I have no idea why Nvidia can't figure out how to have different features enabled at the same time.

[vol.2]

And for some bogus reason, it's only for Turing GPUs. What a shame.

There is at least speculation that they will backport the feature once it helps sell some new stuff... like they usually do.

[Thomago]

I hope so.

[ZellSF]

I think everyone should read the forum topic on Nvidia's forum about this:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... iver-feed/
Not particularly because there's any interesting information there, it's just hilarious how bad their new forum design is.

That you might one day have to look for information in that mess should discourage just about anyone from buying a fancy new Nvidia Turing GPU.

[vol.2]

Not particularly because there's any interesting information there, it's just hilarious how bad their new forum design is.

Which is exactly why I linked the article. I saw the forum and also the release notes and neither made enough sense.

[mikejmoffitt]

When I worked there two years ago I whined about this a lot, and made sample images showing the advantages, so maybe someone listened a tiny bit lol

[headlesshobbs]

Wish somebody besides Nvidia already had a solution.

[Thomago]

Someone has. https://store.steampowered.com/app/9930 ... for_Games/

[strayan]

Wish somebody besides Nvidia already had a solution.

Intel have announced support too: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articl ... l-graphics

[Fudoh]

Intel have announced support too: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articl ... l-graphics

this is going to be bad. If they're fixated on only providing integer scales or nearest neighbour as an alternative, there's no way to get smooth scrolling without sticking to integer scales. And we'll be stuck with this implementation for years. I don't understand why a company like doesn't get the concept of combining integer scales with linear filtering?

[headlesshobbs]

Exactly!

This is the case I've been worried about because adding accurate numbers vs differing resolutions isn't going to provide the correct aspect ratio. Also that'll look pretty unnatural otherwise.

Btw, I'm still waiting for the ossc update on this.

[ZellSF]

Intel have announced support too: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articl ... l-graphics

this is going to be bad. If they're fixated on only providing integer scales or nearest neighbour as an alternative, there's no way to get smooth scrolling without sticking to integer scales. And we'll be stuck with this implementation for years. I don't understand why a company like doesn't get the concept of combining integer scales with linear filtering?

Intel and Nvidia are probably only doing this because they're listening to their customers. Who are only asking for integer scaling.

As for why everyone's asking just for integer scaling, rather than asking for better scaling options in general I'm not sure. I think selling integer scaling as a magical solution to scaling is a bit the fault of retro gaming communities (like this one).

Someone has. https://store.steampowered.com/app/9930 ... for_Games/

That's limited to windowed applications though. Also there's a free application that does the same and doesn't require Steam:
http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/

[Xyga]

Well those are extremely small concerns for them. Talk about HDR or raytracing, manufacturers will be all-ears and they're working on it, no delay!

But topics like this one? ... have little to do with the major marketable features.

So they can take like a decade, starting in reviews and forums, to reach the top layers of a company, be distorted on the way, oversimplified and resulting in half-assed responses that disappoint.

[Thomago]

That's limited to windowed applications though. Also there's a free application that does the same and doesn't require Steam:
http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/

Oh, I didn't know about that. Thank you!

[headlesshobbs]

Someone has. https://store.steampowered.com/app/9930 ... for_Games/

Thanks for the link!

Does this software require that I have to keep logged into Steam in order to use it?



Edit:

That's limited to windowed applications though. Also there's a free application that does the same and doesn't require Steam:
http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/

Oh ok thanks, I'll give this one a look as well.

[strayan]

I don't understand why a company like doesn't get the concept of combining integer scales with linear filtering?

Have you got a video example of this?

[Fudoh]

can't find anything on hand, but it's basically what the Pixellate shader in retroarch does. Or what Nintendo did on the SNES Mini or what Analogue does via it's horizontal smoothing option.

[Konsolkongen]

The same can be said for far too many of the re-releases of retro games on modern systems. Integer scaling should be a given and arguably the easiest to implement too. Then if integer scale doesn’t work (CPS games) horizontal interpolation should be applied, like Snes Mini or the SF30th collection this looks great!
On the other hand releases like the Psikyo Shmups collections on Switch look like absolute garbage. And someone made the decision to release them looking like that. WTF?!

I’m always ecstatic when a good arcade game gets a re-release. Especially if it hadn’t been ported to previous consoles. But more often than not I end up being disappointed by the visual quality and I find most of them unplayable for this reason. Not to mention some of the god awful scanline filters which makes me question if these devs ever actually saw a 240p game running on a CRT.

You can emulate this shit tens of times better yourself, but that just doesn’t appeal to me.

[Fudoh]

On the other hand releases like the Psikyo Shmups collections on Switch look like absolute garbage. And someone made the decision to release them looking like that. WTF?!

indeed. But what really gets me is that M2 doesn't care or doesn't understand the impact. That's a real shame. And on a related topic: M2 also doesn't get what framerate locks mean and the judder on (some of) the M2 Shot Trigger titles is just bad.

[Konsolkongen]

I used to think that M2 equaled perfect conversions but I’m no longer sure about that. I’m extremely disappointed that there’s no interpolation of 256px games on the MD Mini and the scanline filter looks terrible. I had expected their standard thin black lines found in their Mega Drive work on PS2 or their recent Sega Ages releases on Switch.

Their Konami collections also has some strange flaws which isn’t like M2 at all. And I believe the Secret of Mana lacks scanlines altogether. Why don’t they follow a common standard across all their releases? They are probably too big these days and spread across multiple teams.

Wasn’t aware there was any problems with the ShotTrigger ports. I only have Battle Garegga and Ketsui and at least visually they are perfect.

[tongshadow]

Mushihime-sama Futari has probably the best implementation of pixel scaling and filters I have ever seen in a shmup.

[Fudoh]

I only have Battle Garegga and Ketsui and at least visually they are perfect.

Does Ketsui have nice scaling despite it's CPS2-like resolution?

I don't recall if Battle Garegga was affected, but I think to remember that Dangun Feveron has frame rate issues as it enforces the original game speed and doesn't offer a "speed up" to 59.94 or 60Hz. EDIT: indeed, while Garegga runs at 59.63 on original hardware, Feveron runs at 57.55Hz, which probably was too far from the standard 60Hz for M2 to warrant a speed up option.

[Fudoh]

Mushihime-sama Futari has probably the best implementation of pixel scaling and filters I have ever seen in a shmup.

indeed. Futari and Raiden Fighters Aces are the two best arcade conversions on the 360 period.

[Konsolkongen]

I only have Battle Garegga and Ketsui and at least visually they are perfect.

Does Ketsui have nice scaling despite it's CPS2-like resolution?

I don't recall if Battle Garegga was affected, but I think to remember that Dangun Feveron has frame rate issues as it enforces the original game speed and doesn't offer a "speed up" to 59.94 or 60Hz. EDIT: indeed, while Garegga runs at 59.63 on original hardware, Feveron runs at 57.55Hz, which probably was too far from the standard 60Hz for M2 to warrant a speed up option.

Just popped in the Ketsui disc to double check. No pixel-shimmering at all in either Yoko or Tate-mode. It really does look fantastic, as do the scanline-filter. But I did notice that it has very slight stuttering too, but really not something I noticed at all when I first played this version.

I hope Dangun Feveron gets a physical release one day as I've never played that one, even though framerate stutter from 57.55Hz to 59.94 sounds a bit rough

[strayan]

can't find anything on hand, but it's basically what the Pixellate shader in retroarch does. Or what Nintendo did on the SNES Mini or what Analogue does via it's horizontal smoothing option.

I have snes mini and am pretty sure it’s just using nearest neighbour scaling.

Are you referring to the 4:3 scaling on the snes mini?

Edit: yes, you are. What would be the point of Nvidia/intel offering this type of scaling? Are there PC games that were rendered at resolutions that differed from the native aspect ratio of the display and need to be stretched or squished like snes or cps games?

[Fudoh]

Are you referring to the 4:3 scaling on the snes mini?

I do, but the difference is that Nintendo is running on the bare minimum res here. If you have a higher resolution to play with (e.g. a 1440p screen) pixellate can do incredible things on both axis where you can really hardly tell the difference to true integer scaling, but without being limited to true integer factors.

Are there PC games that were rendered at resolutions that differed from the native aspect ratio of the display and need to be stretched or squished like snes or cps games?

it's not about the aspect ratio, it's about getting a vertical fill without using next neigbhour scaling (which kills your scrolling if you don't end up with an integer scale). Take 640x480p games like Ys Eternal. Not many options to play these on a 1080p screen. So far you had that linear blur to 1080p. Now you either integer scale to 960p or you can badly scale to 1080p. I would like to be able to scale to 1080p nicely.

Or take 800x600 titles or XGA titles running on a 1440p screen. Same issues.

[strayan]

I get you now.

Same reason I’ve never bought a 1080p display!

I just have a 1200p monitor for SVGA games and a 480p plasma for 480p ones.

[orange808]

In case you're curious, nVidia Turing integer scaling finds the largest perfect integer scale and boxes it inside your final output signal.

It's definitely not nearest neighbor. It's not full screen unless your target is an even multiple of the source. It's boxed (letter and/or pillarboxed) in the output frame to maintain the largest possible integer scale.

It is frustrating that the nVidia Control Panel doesn't support hotkeys. You have to open the control application every time you want to toggle GPU scaling and/or change the scaling setting.

Of couse, it does what it says. It's sharp.

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There was some previous speculation that the 1:1 modes on many BenQ monitors applied filtering. I compared the GPU integer scales to using the xl2720's 1:1 modes. I don't see a difference.

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Ultra low latency is a neat idea, but don't try it with new games. It studders badly. It's probably okay if you turn all the settings to min and game at 720p, but that's ridiculous. The "competitive" gamers will like, though.

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Once again, I wish there was a hotkey option to toggle settings. That should be the next thing nVidia releases (it's overdue), but I doubt it will happen. We need hotkeys or a command line program to automate GPU tweaks.