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 Post subject: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:57 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Check out my new 77" Oled!

Image

In case anyone was wondering about what they are like to game on, they are amazing. It has the best image I have ever seen on a flatscreen. I didn't measure but I couldn't detect any noticeable input lag with it's game mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:04 pm 


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Nice, what model is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:34 pm 


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Noice ! <3

lag; iirc 6 series 1.5 frames, 7 & 8 series a hair under 1 frame, 9 series practically lagless with about 1/4 of a frame.
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:37 pm 


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Sweet setup


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm 


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cicada88 wrote:
Sweet setup


The PS3 is on what looks like a rug. :shock: :wink:

So when is the ceremonial burial for your CRTs classicgamer? On a serious note it looks great. OLED is awesome, enjoy.
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:59 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
cicada88 wrote:
Sweet setup


The PS3 is on what looks like a rug. :shock: :wink:

So when is the ceremonial burial for your CRTs classicgamer? On a serious note it looks great. OLED is awesome, enjoy.


haha--no snark intended. I just meant it was sweet having a 77" OLED to game on!


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:30 pm 



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They are pretty great for 1080p and up. Too bad most PS3 games are 720p, which these TVs don't scale up as nicely (the picture just ends up being not sharp enough). Nothing that a good external scaler cannot fix for the most part though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:37 pm 



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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
cicada88 wrote:
Sweet setup


The PS3 is on what looks like a rug. :shock: :wink:

So when is the ceremonial burial for your CRTs classicgamer? On a serious note it looks great. OLED is awesome, enjoy.


My CRT's will stay with me until death. In fact, I want them to be buried with me just in case you 'can' take it with you.

I like to use the right tech for the era and anything 3d from the PS3 gen or newer belongs on the largest HD flat screen you can find.

It took me a long time to give up my 110" black projector screen in my living room. I just couldn't resist the inky blacks on Oled tv's.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:44 pm 



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fernan1234 wrote:
They are pretty great for 1080p and up. Too bad most PS3 games are 720p, which these TVs don't scale up as nicely (the picture just ends up being not sharp enough). Nothing that a good external scaler cannot fix for the most part though.


It looks sharp to me. It's significantly better than what I've seen on any of my LCD monitors. 2160p is divisible by 720 so it's different to the issues you find with scaling 720p onto a 1080p panel.

You certainly don't need an external scaler to make the PS3 look good. I doubt there would be a noticeable benefit if you bought one. HD 3d content usually looks good on any HD flat screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:51 pm 



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Lawfer wrote:
Nice, what model is it?


It's the C8 - i.e. The $4000 model, not the $12000 "wallpaper " model.

I would never have spent $12000 on a TV but I did get to see them side by side in the shop. If there is any actual difference in image quality, I couldn't spot it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:06 pm 


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cicada88 wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
cicada88 wrote:
Sweet setup


The PS3 is on what looks like a rug. :shock: :wink:

So when is the ceremonial burial for your CRTs classicgamer? On a serious note it looks great. OLED is awesome, enjoy.


haha--no snark intended. I just meant it was sweet having a 77" OLED to game on!


I know, it's just the first thing I noticed in the picture. Looks like the OP was just super excited and had to take a pic right away.

Classicgamer wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
cicada88 wrote:
Sweet setup


The PS3 is on what looks like a rug. :shock: :wink:

So when is the ceremonial burial for your CRTs classicgamer? On a serious note it looks great. OLED is awesome, enjoy.


My CRT's will stay with me until death. In fact, I want them to be buried with me just in case you 'can' take it with you.


Okay, you are still classicgamer. :wink:

Classicgamer wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
They are pretty great for 1080p and up. Too bad most PS3 games are 720p, which these TVs don't scale up as nicely (the picture just ends up being not sharp enough). Nothing that a good external scaler cannot fix for the most part though.


It looks sharp to me. It's significantly better than what I've seen on any of my LCD monitors. 2160p is divisible by 720 so it's different to the issues you find with scaling 720p onto a 1080p panel.

You certainly don't need an external scaler to make the PS3 look good. I doubt there would be a noticeable benefit if you bought one. HD 3d content usually looks good on any HD flat screen.


Yeah 720p looks great on OLED. Maybe if you had a really early OLED it wouldn't look as good.
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:11 pm 


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PC port could really do that panel justice :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:17 pm 


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Looks nice, but does it support 256×239 RGB? :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:39 pm 



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waiwainl wrote:
Looks nice, but does it support 256×239 RGB? :mrgreen:



It might as, for some reason, it has a composite video and RF port next to it's 5 HDMI ports. I wouldn't use it for low res stuff though. I have a pair of Tri-Sync CRT arcade monitors in my games room for anything CGA, EGA and VGA.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:50 pm 



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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Yeah 720p looks great on OLED. Maybe if you had a really early OLED it wouldn't look as good.


My impression is from last year's C8. Calibrated too. It looks good, but I've seen 720p look better/sharper both on LCD and HD CRT. Now on the other hand 1080p and up looks fantastic on these, the gap between 1080p and 720p is pretty big IMO.

The Sony and Panasonic upscaling may be better though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:36 pm 



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fernan1234 wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Yeah 720p looks great on OLED. Maybe if you had a really early OLED it wouldn't look as good.


My impression is from last year's C8. Calibrated too. It looks good, but I've seen 720p look better/sharper both on LCD and HD CRT. Now on the other hand 1080p and up looks fantastic on these, the gap between 1080p and 720p is pretty big IMO.

The Sony and Panasonic upscaling may be better though.


No it doesn't. The very best lcd's ever made don't look half as good as the worst OLED ever made.
The LG 720p to 2160p scaling is flawless.

The most important factors in image quality and clarity are contrast and frame rate. The best LCD panels produce real world dynamic contrast of 3000:1. OLED delivers 357,000:1. It has a faster pixel response time too.

Oled is the best display tech ever made. Second place would go to Plasma, not LCD.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:47 pm 



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Classicgamer wrote:

No it doesn't. The very best lcd's ever made don't look half as good as the worst OLED ever made.
The LG 720p to 2160p scaling is flawless.

The most important factors in image quality and clarity are contrast and frame rate. The best LCD panels produce real world dynamic contrast of 3000:1. OLED delivers 357,000:1. It has a faster pixel response time too.

Oled is the best display tech ever made. Second place would go to Plasma, not LCD.


I wasn't talking about all parameters of picture quality, only upscaling of 720p content. I stand by my impression that the LG upscaling of 720p is comparatively subpar (at least in last year's model, and I hear this year's is very similar). I'm not saying it looks bad, just that I've seen such upscaling done better even on some LCD displays. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony's upscaling on their OLED is better as well. (There's a few things that LCDs do better but we don't need to get into that.)

I used an Extron HD-HD to upscale 720p to 1080p and fed that to the LG OLED and it made a noticeable difference, so again the problem is not with OLED, it's with LG's comparatively weak upscaling. It's far from flawless.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:33 pm 



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That is simply not accurate in any way. Everyone who reviews the C8 (or any other Oled as they are all made by LG) says it's the best TV ever for all HD content. For example, Wired mag specifically said:

"Thanks to OLED, the C8 is the only 4K TV I’ve used that makes absolutely everything I watch look noticeably better, even upscaled HD content or YouTube videos".

They didn't say "everything except 720p which is let down by poor scaling". Or "scaling was better on an LCD".

There is no way that an LCD produced a clearer image thanks to better upscaling of 720p 3d graphics to 4k. They have Samsung's new 8k lcd in Best Buy and the 4k Oleds even put them to shame.

Wired also said:

"As a gamer, I also appreciate the low 21ms latency in LG’s Game Mode. Games of Fortnite look colorful and punchy on it, and I may have gasped the first time I booted up Nintendo’s vibrant, bubbly fun Super Mario Odyssey".

I felt the same way. Only 3 displays ever made me gasp when I saw how good a game looked. My Ikegami CRT, the Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma and this Oled. I can see details in PS3 games I didn't even know were there on my LCD monitors.

The only criticisms of the C8 from pro reviewers or owners is immaterial external cosmetic stuff or idiot owners that think they caused burn in on day one as they don't understand how to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:44 pm 



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Well I don't know what to tell you, I don't go by what publications say but by what my eyes see on the C8 that I've owned since last year.

I agree that the C8 is a great display, and OLED is a nice tech, but at the same time I acknowledge it's not perfect in every single way. I don't need to justify my purchase by deluding myself to think otherwise. I've used it long enough to acknowledge that besides a subpar upscaling of sub-1080p content it also suffers from more noticeable posterization on dark content (especially compressed) compared to other displays I've used. OLED in general also suffers from sample-and-hold persistence that is common to all flat panel technology, and lacks adequate measures to compensate for it, since BFI also halves brightness on a panel type that already has relatively low peak brightness (compared to what LCDs can do) as well as ABL tacked on to prevent panel overheating. They also have more stutter than other displays available.

All of that said, they indeed can provide some of the best pictures among all consumer-level displays available, especially for 1080p and 4k content. Again, I've simply seen 720p (and 480p) upscaling done better by other displays and external upscalers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 pm 


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720p scaling could be a bit sharper on the LG OLEDs for sure, but it’s pretty good still. 480p is total shit, but with OSSC and Framemeister I don’t ever feed it below 720p anyway.

My C8 is properly calibrated as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:06 pm 



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Yeah, again, it's not bad. I actually just settled for its internal upscaling for 720p stuff instead of using the Extron HD-HD on it full-time, since I preferred to just dedicate the latter to scale to 1080i for my BVM CRT (which sits right next to the OLED and lets me be a bit more critical of it, while on the other hand the blacks of the OLED destroy the BVM's, of course).


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:14 pm 


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On the other hand the slight softness of the scaler works extremely well for 960p and 1200p that I use all the time with the OSSC. I have never noticed any uneven scanlines or pixel shimmer of any kind due to uneven scaling. So I’m plenty satisfied :)

I would love to see an option for interpolation free scaling of resolutions like 720p and 1080p (like Panasonic offers). It would look absolutely insane for video games :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:42 pm 


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Well you'll alway get better scaling and processing from a Sony at all resolutions (480 still meh tho can't help that @4k), but their own models lack sufficiently low lag in game mode.
Especially compared to LG 9 series which can't be beat.

Anyway, getting an OLED is all about that colorful eye candy and instant response big panel, which is a lot already, we can't have everything yet even with more money.

(actually these days I bet if you're really rich you can have a manufacturer custom-build the display of your dreams, unique with cherry-picked specs and cutting-edge tech, just for you, though probably for the price of a supercar or two lol)
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:09 am 



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Obviously there is no such thing as "perfection" with any display tech. That's not the question though. I am disputing that other brands built in scalers on the currently available 4k LCD tv's are better. Or that there were better built in scalers on old HD CRT sets. And I am also disputing that the built in scaler on any lcd ever made was so much better that it made the 720p PS3 image look better than it does on an Oled.

The alpha 9 processor used on LG's higher end models is about as good as I've seen for a built in one. There is no noticeable benefit to image quality on Sony Oled displays. I spent far too long staring at them side by side in Best Buy trying to compare them with different sources. As most reviewers said, they look about the same once you adjust the settings.

If there is a TV with materially better scaling built in, in ain't sold in Best Buy. The next best currently available display is Samsung's Qled line which was underwhelming in every way.

While not perfect, LG's Oleds are as close as is currently available. It certainly doesn't need an external scaler to make PS3 games look good.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:36 am 



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Classicgamer wrote:
It certainly doesn't need an external scaler to make PS3 games look good.


I didn't say it needs an external scaler to look good, I just said it can make it better. I've confirmed this with my own set. I can't name a current Ultra HD LCD that I confirmed upscales 720p better than the alpha 9 processor, I was just going off memory of HD LCDs. I can name an HD CRT that made 720p far better, to my eyes, than the LG OLED: a Sony KV-34HS420. And it seems like it's worth recalling that my comments were specifically about upscaling, not about the overall picture quality of the displays.

In any event, if you're happy with it as it is, good for you. Just don't be too shocked that other owners of the same TV have less glowing impressions.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:45 am 



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As a sidenote, the alpha 9 processor is there primarily to do a lot more besides the upscaling. Unfortunately, most of the processing that the alpha 9 does is for effects that any purist will want to turn off anyway (and for handling HDR). But for people who like a highly processed picture it's a nice piece of tech. On the scaling side, it's actually rather embarrassing that an old Extron scaler does a better job. But what the manufacturers care about is dazzling buyers with 4k HDR demos, not upscaled SDR content.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:05 am 


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tangent:

I was on a trip to Tokyo when Sony was showing off it's prototype 11" portable OLED TV at their world headquarters building in the gallery downstairs. The second I saw how drippy and deep the colors and the blacks looked my heart skipped a beat and knew they had a winner.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:03 am 


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Sony's scaling is definitely superior, but over 4K and with a 720p or 1080p source it's definitely not very perceptible nor much important, as they say most 4K displays look very, very close in these situations.
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:10 am 


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Panasonics perfect nearest neighbor scaling of 1080p sources is much better scaled that any other brand. And Xyga definetely has a point in that Sony does better upscaling in general. HDTVtest has mentioned this several times in his videos.

Again, the LG upscaling isn’t bad at all. But it’s not the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:36 am 


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There's no point in refering to any of the available reviews when it comes to 480p or 720p upscaling. It's just not important enough by any means and is hardly tested. RTings' comments on ED and HD upscaling are a joke anyway.

LG's upscaling for 720p content is alright. For 480p it's not great. Sony is visibly better on both accounts, especially in terms of sharpness, perceived detail and missing ringing effects. BUT LG's flexible scaling settings (where you can individually set the horizontal and vertical scaling and adjust it in rather fine steps) is such a big bonus that it's easy to live with LG's upscaling algorithms.

Missing detail and sharpness aside, LG's algorithms are good. If you feed a scanlined 720p image (from any of the Mini consoles, a Pi or an OSSC) and you adjust the vertical scaling using the above mentioned flexible scaling settings, it mostly keeps the scanlines intact. That's quite an accomplishment for any scaler (and it's something everybody can try).

All other points are valid: the near zero pixel response time of OLEDs make them the best gaming displays period. Motion resolution still isn't great, but I don't see rolling scan (what Sony used on their PVM/BVM OLEDs) coming to any consumer display, so there won't be any improvements in this area.


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