What arcade stick to buy?

[Wolf_]

So I'm looking for a good arcade stick to use for mame and MiSTer, especially as the Neo Geo core gets closer to release and I'm new to the world of arcade sticks so I was wondering what I should get.

I know the Neo Geo controller is famous for its microswitches but I'm told I should go for a 6 button one with start and select buttons if I intend to use it for mame as well. So I was wondering what I should go with. Also I should be clear that I'm just looking to pick up 2 of these and I really don't want to start an arcade stick collection where I end up with 5 different pairs for different games.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I would start with two of these..or a wanted post for used Panzer.

https://www.trfightstick.com/arcade-sticks-1

[Wolf_]

I would start with two of these..or a wanted post for used Panzer.

https://www.trfightstick.com/arcade-sticks-1

I was thinking the 6 button genesis controller looked nice. Also I'd like to avoid usb controllers if at all possible because of the extra delay they have that wasn't present on the original systems/arcades.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Mame - it is USB arcade stick/joypad or Bluetooth joy pad..
MiSTer - when LL cool joy is out DB15 - not many joysticks creator use DB15 so you will need to find someone that can make one.. again, the person on the link above is who I would reach out to see if could make them instead of USB...you can not beat, his prices and quality for a metal arcade stick.

[Wolf_]

Mame - it is USB arcade stick/joypad or Bluetooth joy pad..
MiSTer - when LL cool joy is out DB15 - not many joysticks creator use DB15 so you will need to find someone that can make one.. again, the person on the link above is who I would reach out to see if could make them instead of USB...you can not beat, his prices and quality for a metal arcade stick.

I think for now I'll give the 6 button genesis arcade stick a shot. I've heard good things about the quality and it is db9 which would work with the LLCJ. I have no interest in custom built sticks. Fighting games are popular enough that a simple controller for them should be pre-built and ready to buy on a store shelf not a diy project.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

good luck..

[it290]

The Genesis arcade sticks are pretty trash unless you can find the Japanese version which is supposed to be microswitched. Honestly if you need 6 buttons you'd be much better off with the pad.

If you really need DB9, you could also pick up one of those Tototek adatpers and use it with a PS1/2 stick, of which there are plentiful options of better quality than most of the 16-bit era stuff. I've used those with my PS2 Hori RAP in the past and they work really well.

[Wolf_]

The Genesis arcade sticks are pretty trash unless you can find the Japanese version which is supposed to be microswitched. Honestly if you need 6 buttons you'd be much better off with the pad.

If you really need DB9, you could also pick up one of those Tototek adatpers and use it with a PS1/2 stick, of which there are plentiful options of better quality than most of the 16-bit era stuff. I've used those with my PS2 Hori RAP in the past and they work really well.

Anything that isn't usb or bluetooth works.

[Austin]

The Capcom Power Fighter stick for Genesis isn't bad. I've been using mine recently. Buttons feel decent for the era and the stick uses micro switches. It's a step up from the official Sega or other third-party sticks, but it's sensitive on the diagonals so it takes a while to get used to. You might be able to run across one on the cheap if you keep an eye out, but they do seem less common than the SNES version.

I generally prefer modern USB sticks (I primarily use a Hori RAP V these days), but I have no experience with using it on a MiSTer. I don't know how much lag it introduces.

[Gara]

Fighting games are popular enough that a simple controller for them should be pre-built and ready to buy on a store shelf not a diy project.

Yeah, you'd think so. It's true to some extent. If you explore the $140-$300+ range then sure you can find some good off the shelf solutions. You'd be surprised how high you have to go before Sanwa or Seimitsu parts start being included. The entry point becomes a lot lower if you're willing to install the parts yourself. It's usually diy because picking your stick and buttons is a personal experience. The feel of buttons and sticks vary wildly.

I guess it comes down to your budget. The Neo Geo stick was great for its time but is nothing special by today's standards. More of a collectors piece. The Genesis stick you mention is just awful. I know a micro switched version exists but you'll just pay collector prices for something with less practical use.

I'd try looking on ebay for something used. Lots of people mod Sanwa parts into all kinds of off the shelf solutions. Joysticks take up room so people are always selling off great sticks.

[Classicgamer]

I think there is a misunderstanding around what causes input delay... It's not the plug type you connect the joystick to a PC with.

Just take a look at one of those "zero delay USB joystick encoders". The design looks identical to regular USB joystick encoders. It's a marketing gimmick that I won't fall for again.

Any 'noticeable' input delay in mame is either inherent in the software (and therefore unavoidable) or related to the use of a flatscreen monitor instead of a CRT.

I own original Street Fighter 2 CE and Neo Geo MVS PCB's. I also run a mame PC on a CRT arcade monitor. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that the DB9 joystick port on my Supergun makes zero difference to playing the same game in mame.

Pretty much any PC arcade stick uses micro-switches for the stick. There is usually an unreasonable premium for one that also has micro switch buttons. I bought a cheap Mayflash 8 button fight stick off ebay and I simply replaced the buttons with low profile micro-switch buttons. It's easy and cheap. Just two wires per button.

For mame, you want a stick with as many buttons as possible. You'll want six buttons for the game plus a start and coin button. Then you'll want extra buttons for pause and service (as a minimum). Most people also want an analog stick, a racing wheel and a gun too, which is why so many of us build out own arcade control panels.

[buttersoft]

Just take a look at one of those "zero delay USB joystick encoders". The design looks identical to regular USB joystick encoders. It's a marketing gimmick that I won't fall for again.

What are you saying here? That the ZD encoders lag more, or less, or the same? I'm using a few of these, and would love to see some real lag-test results on them. I doubt they're very good, but it would be nice to see how bad they really are.

Any 'noticeable' input delay in mame is either inherent in the software (and therefore unavoidable) or related to the use of a flatscreen monitor instead of a CRT.

Well, GM has frame-delay, and Retroarch has runahead, both of which are pretty great. Not perfect though, but they're things you can utilise.

For mame, you want a stick with as many buttons as possible. You'll want six buttons for the game plus a start and coin button. Then you'll want extra buttons for pause and service (as a minimum). Most people also want an analog stick, a racing wheel and a gun too, which is why so many of us build out own arcade control panels.

Button combos work fine in MAME, so Start+P1Button1=service, etc. No need for more than 6 input buttons, then one for start and one for coin. And i'd recommend starting without any of those extras, get a nice stick first, and if you want to expand do so later. I don't want a light gun, and would never use a trackball or rotary stick, for example. I have two dedicated driving setups though, because i figured out i wanted them, but they cost time and money to get working. Most people wouldn't use a 4-player cab either, and building for that many players takes more materials and more time, and the end result takes up more room, and never gets used to capacity more than once a year. If you're raising four boys or something, maybe it' a good idea. Just saying.

[Classicgamer]

I'm saying that I can't detect any difference between my zero delay joystick encoders and any other joystick I own. If any difference is there, it's too small to matter.

The small amount of delay present in Groovymame is there regardless of which joystick you use or how it is connected to the PC. There is a video on Youtube demonstrating this somewhere. The guy has groovymame on a CRT side by side with the SF2 PCB with the joystick wired to both his supergun and PC at the same time. I.e. When he presses kick, Ryu kicks on both screens at the same time.

I can't see how connecting a stick to an old parallel port would help.

[Wolf_]

I'm saying that I can't detect any difference between my zero delay joystick encoders and any other joystick I own. If any difference is there, it's too small to matter.

The small amount of delay present in Groovymame is there regardless of which joystick you use or how it is connected to the PC. There is a video on Youtube demonstrating this somewhere. The guy has groovymame on a CRT side by side with the SF2 PCB with the joystick wired to both his supergun and PC at the same time. I.e. When he presses kick, Ryu kicks on both screens at the same time.

I can't see how connecting a stick to an old parallel port would help.

Well for starters did they actually use a camera capable of recording each frame on the displays and slow it down so you could see them or did they just point a cellphone at it and say "looks close enough".

Secondly are both the sf2 pcb and groovymame going to crts? Because unless he is using the retroarch mame core with run-ahead mode then emulation is going to have some lag so there must be something somewhere in his setup that is slowing down the pcb setup. (Also run-ahead mode just removes lag built into the game which don't get me wrong is great for games that were ruined by poor input controls but doesn't remove lag from your own setup even if in the end things come out about the same level of delay)

But anyways the main reason for wanting an analogue joystick and not a usb one is because the usb standard takes time to decode data and I am going to have an analogue controller board for my MiSTer so it only makes sense to take advantage of it.

[Classicgamer]

The groovy name / SF2 pcb lag test looked like it was done properly. Both were on CRTs too. He appeared to show a frame of lag in mame which most people at the time, including the guy that makes groovymame seemed to agree with.


I think your assumption about what using an old Genesis pad instead of a USB one is wrong. Analog is not the right word. That refers to controllers that use pots instead of micro switches. Direct input is what you mean. I don't think it will make a noticeable difference VS a regular USB pad.

I'm not sure how you avoid going through one of the PC's serial ports or if it's even possible in Windows 7 or 10. How would you go from the Genesis db15 plug to the PC? All of the adapters I have seen go through the USB or parallel ports.

[Wolf_]

The groovy name / SF2 pcb lag test looked like it was done properly. Both were on CRTs too. He appeared to show a frame of lag in mame which most people at the time, including the guy that makes groovymame seemed to agree with.


I think your assumption about what using an old Genesis pad instead of a USB one is wrong. Analog is not the right word. That refers to controllers that use pots instead of micro switches. Direct input is what you mean. I don't think it will make a noticeable difference VS a regular USB pad.

I'm not sure how you avoid going through one of the PC's serial ports or if it's even possible in Windows 7 or 10. How would you go from the Genesis db15 plug to the PC? All of the adapters I have seen go through the USB or parallel ports.

Mostly I'd be using it with MiSTer which is well on its way to having several 0 latency controller boards released for it. For mame games I'd just have to use it with blissbox and hope for the best. I'm pretty sure it uses some kind of special usb standard for the lowest possible amount of lag so it is still probably better than just using a regular usb stick.

[Hoagtech]

If cost is prohibitive why don't you settle for a usb stick with consumer HORI parts?

The genesis one looks like a soggy flight stick, not a fight stick.

Your looking at a grand total of $58 + tax dependent on state policy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hori-Fighting- ... SwtfpdDUb3



I prefer the bigger body Tekken sticks but this one would kick ass and support the Misters native input.

[Classicgamer]

The groovy name / SF2 pcb lag test looked like it was done properly. Both were on CRTs too. He appeared to show a frame of lag in mame which most people at the time, including the guy that makes groovymame seemed to agree with.


I think your assumption about what using an old Genesis pad instead of a USB one is wrong. Analog is not the right word. That refers to controllers that use pots instead of micro switches. Direct input is what you mean. I don't think it will make a noticeable difference VS a regular USB pad.

I'm not sure how you avoid going through one of the PC's serial ports or if it's even possible in Windows 7 or 10. How would you go from the Genesis db15 plug to the PC? All of the adapters I have seen go through the USB or parallel ports.

Mostly I'd be using it with MiSTer which is well on its way to having several 0 latency controller boards released for it. For mame games I'd just have to use it with blissbox and hope for the best. I'm pretty sure it uses some kind of special usb standard for the lowest possible amount of lag so it is still probably better than just using a regular usb stick.

I don't believe anyone has invented a "special USB standard" or that their USB delivers noticeable improvement over the USB 2 and USB 3 controllers used by everyone else.

There is a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo in this space. Like I said before, I'm not falling for it again. The standard USB port is more than adequate for game controllers. The entire gaming world uses it with no issues.

[buttersoft]

I don't believe anyone has invented a "special USB standard" or that their USB delivers noticeable improvement over the USB 2 and USB 3 controllers used by everyone else.

There is a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo in this space. Like I said before, I'm not falling for it again. The standard USB port is more than adequate for game controllers. The entire gaming world uses it with no issues.

I agree with the first part, but there are considerations when selecting an encoder. Any encoder needs to process the closing switches (or moving pots, I suppose) and deliver that input to the computer. And on Windows, how the USB stack is handled is hardly transparent. There are definitely tests out there showing the PS360+ beats the Cthulu, and I doubt any $10 encoder like the ZD can compete. Sure, in MAME you won’t notice much difference, and that’s what the OP asked about. But the term just-frame exists for a reason, and if you play fighting games every last millisecond counts. Surely an interrupt-based system is always going to be faster.

[Shelcoof]

Just throwing this out there but if anyone has heard of the zero delay usb board that thing drops inputs

[buttersoft]

Yes, we're already talking about the ZD. Can you link to any test results? I feel you are probably correct, but would love to see what's actually going on.