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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:37 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Germany
I have checked eBay in then meantime and there are plenty of extron scalers available at a good price for the Quality of he product. I think I will order soon.

Should be the Right stuff for my gamecube and Dreamcast games.

Has anybody of you tested the extron 301 hd already with These consoles connected via HDMI: I am using a Beharbos HDMI Box for the DC and a HDMI Adapter for the NGC. If yes did you experienced any Problems or did the scaling of HDMI Signal worked flawless?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:59 am 


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Quote:
Has anybody of you tested the extron 301 hd already with These consoles connected via HDMI: I am using a Beharbos HDMI Box for the DC and a HDMI Adapter for the NGC. If yes did you experienced any Problems or did the scaling of HDMI Signal worked flawless?

The Beharbros DC HDMI box effectively butchers your DC's signal beyond repair, because it uses the wrong sampling rate for its A/D process. The 301 works wonderfully with a DC connected through VGA though. Scaling proper HDMI sources is fine of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:09 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Germany
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Has anybody of you tested the extron 301 hd already with These consoles connected via HDMI: I am using a Beharbos HDMI Box for the DC and a HDMI Adapter for the NGC. If yes did you experienced any Problems or did the scaling of HDMI Signal worked flawless?

The Beharbros DC HDMI box effectively butchers your DC's signal beyond repair, because it uses the wrong sampling rate for its A/D process. The 301 works wonderfully with a DC connected through VGA though. Scaling proper HDMI sources is fine of course.



Oh i see did not know that. The only Reports I found About the Beharbos stuff was postiv, that's why I bought it. Apparently I did not do enough research. :oops: :cry:

Anyway it is not the biggest problem. Have a old School VGA box for the Dreamcast too. I will use it instead of the Beharbos.

Thanks for your help Fudoh.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:46 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Has anybody of you tested the extron 301 hd already with These consoles connected via HDMI: I am using a Beharbos HDMI Box for the DC and a HDMI Adapter for the NGC. If yes did you experienced any Problems or did the scaling of HDMI Signal worked flawless?

The Beharbros DC HDMI box effectively butchers your DC's signal beyond repair, because it uses the wrong sampling rate for its A/D process. The 301 works wonderfully with a DC connected through VGA though. Scaling proper HDMI sources is fine of course.


Is there a good all in one solution for Dreamcast yet? Most games can be "tricked" into 480p but there are some personal favorites of mine that can't be.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:33 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Is there a good all in one solution for Dreamcast yet? Most games can be "tricked" into 480p but there are some personal favorites of mine that can't be.


Retro Access

BNC: https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... -bnc-cable
SCART: https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... cart-cable

or

Retro Gaming Cables

SCART: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/seg ... -480P-MODE

Some Dreamcast games are actually 240p, so not all games are going to support 480p.

For HDMI, the only way is to mod your console with citrus' mod.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:52 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 154
Location: Austria
The only drawback with scart is, that the image is way darker compared to HDMI. Some games are almost too dark to play when using rgb scart cable from retro gaming cables uk. I am not sure though if these dark picture is the what it is supposed to look and the vga output is too bright...


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:53 pm 


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Revolver Ocelot wrote:
The only drawback with scart is, that the image is way darker compared to HDMI. Some games are almost too dark to play when using rgb scart cable from retro gaming cables uk. I am not sure though if these dark picture is the what it is supposed to look and the vga output is too bright...

compared to HDMI from what?

the VGA output of a stock dreamcast is indeed too bright, it is close to ~800mVpp when it should be 700


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:06 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 154
Location: Austria
maxtherabbit wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
The only drawback with scart is, that the image is way darker compared to HDMI. Some games are almost too dark to play when using rgb scart cable from retro gaming cables uk. I am not sure though if these dark picture is the what it is supposed to look and the vga output is too bright...

compared to HDMI from what?

the VGA output of a stock dreamcast is indeed too bright, it is close to ~800mVpp when it should be 700



When you compare the direct HDMI connection to my tv with the gekko box and the Framemeister connected via Scart to Scart picture is way darker, almost too dark for my liking, maybe I am to used to the vga/hdmi signal. I prefer the gekko image to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:07 pm 


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I've not been happy with anything but svideo to a crt for last blade 2 and that could be better obvs.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:29 pm 


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Revolver Ocelot wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
The only drawback with scart is, that the image is way darker compared to HDMI. Some games are almost too dark to play when using rgb scart cable from retro gaming cables uk. I am not sure though if these dark picture is the what it is supposed to look and the vga output is too bright...

compared to HDMI from what?

the VGA output of a stock dreamcast is indeed too bright, it is close to ~800mVpp when it should be 700



When you compare the direct HDMI connection to my tv with the gekko box and the Framemeister connected via Scart to Scart picture is way darker, almost too dark for my liking, maybe I am to used to the vga/hdmi signal. I prefer the gekko image to be honest.

well I can't speak to your preferences, but the gekko box's output is objectively too bright


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:43 pm 


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The Dreamcast original output is overblown and out of spec, the cable (at least the Retro Access ones do) correct this issue by attenuating it to standard specs.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:53 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 950
Really? DC output looks fine to me on a bvm. Maybe it tends to look overblown on PC monitors? I'm guessing that's what most people that care use with a DC.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:41 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Really? DC output looks fine to me on a bvm. Maybe it tends to look overblown on PC monitors? I'm guessing that's what most people that care use with a DC.

it measures too high on an oscilloscope

it's not usually high enough to look "bad", but it is going to end up crushing whites on most displays


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:09 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 950
maxtherabbit wrote:
it measures too high on an oscilloscope

it's not usually high enough to look "bad", but it is going to end up crushing whites on most displays


That's interesting. Does anyone know of an example where this white crush would be visible, maybe certain popular game's intro/first level etc. that one can quickly check out?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:10 am 


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Location: Denmark
Title screen and menus of Samba De Amigo 2000 comes to mind, but perhaps not the most accessible game :)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:13 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 950
I actually have it :lol:

Though I also have to look up a picture or footage that shows how it "should" look like for reference.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:13 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 118
Location: Manchester, UK
Quote:
Extron RGB-HDMI 300 can handle that task just fine and is very cheap. Sampling rate is fully adjustable


Thanks for the tip. I found a RGB-HDMI 300A on eBay for £30. It was a real bargain. Does a great job with my Dreamcast and original Xbox. Seems to be a very solid, flexible and simple to use scaler. I put some resistors on the RGB lines of one of thefoo83's VGA cables and I'm getting probably the best image quality from a Dreamcast I've ever seen (Of course the hdmi mod will be better but this is a hell of a lot cheaper and I can use it with several different sources).


Last edited by Das Muel on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:30 pm 


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Das Muel wrote:
Quote:
Extron RGB-HDMI 300 can handle that task just fine and is very cheap. Sampling rate is fully adjustable


Thanks for the tip. I found a RGB-HDMI 300A on eBay for £30. It was a real bargain. Does a great job with my Dreamcast and original Xbox. Seems to be a very solid, flexible and simple to use scaler. I put some resistors on the RGB lines of one of thefoo83's VGA cables and I'm getting the best image quality from a Dreamcast I've ever seen (Of course the hdmi mod will be better but this is a hell of a lot cheaper and I can use it with several different sources).

I would recommend ditching the extra resistors, you can just lower the brightness a tick in the scaler menu


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:54 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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Location: Manchester, UK
Quote:
I would recommend ditching the extra resistors, you can just lower the brightness a tick in the scaler menu


That didn't seem to work for me unfortunately, lowering brightness just crushed the blacks. Maybe I'll give it another whirl. Fortunately my TV's capable of around 1200 nits brightness, so the image isn't lacking in punch despite the resistors.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:18 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
I have read on this forum that the OSCC and Extron are combo'd together. Why is this done? And does anyone have screenshots of what this achieves for games on GameCube and Wii? Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and Super Mario Galaxy, I would especially love to see how they look.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:26 pm 


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Why is this done?

for various reasons. You usually won't do it, if your TV can handle 960p from the OSSC on its own and gives you the aspect ratio controls you want. The Extron can enhance compatibility between the OSSC's output and your display and it give you more controls than your TV does.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:33 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Why is this done?

for various reasons. You usually won't do it, if your TV can handle 960p from the OSSC on its own and gives you the aspect ratio controls you want. The Extron can enhance compatibility between the OSSC's output and your display and it give you more controls than your TV does.


Interesting. How can I tell if my TV can handle 960p? My TV is a 2019 LG C9 OLED.

If my TV can handle this resolution, should I go with the OSSC or the Extron?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:55 pm 


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It does. Get an OSSC first.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:10 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Fudoh wrote:
It does. Get an OSSC first.


Huh, earlier in the thread, you recommended the Extron over the OSSC. Or did I misunderstand?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:30 pm 


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I didn't see you asking anything before. Got a link to the specific posting for me?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:32 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1732
Windfish wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
It does. Get an OSSC first.


Huh, earlier in the thread, you recommended the Extron over the OSSC. Or did I misunderstand?

That recommendation was prefixed with "OSSC aside"; if the OSSC doesn't work for you on its own, then the DSC 301 HD is the next-best thing.

Later, you shared what model of TV you have, and Fudoh confirmed that it's compatible with the OSSC on its own.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:35 pm 


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Windfish wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
It does. Get an OSSC first.


Huh, earlier in the thread, you recommended the Extron over the OSSC. Or did I misunderstand?


You misunderstood.

Get the OSSC. Trust Fudoh on this. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:44 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Thanks, all.

I tried emulation, and I just found it to be very tedious. So I am going back to physical media... I will miss the visual upgrades from the emulators, but I hope the OSSC will shore up things a little.


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