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 Post subject: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:56 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 44
Location: Germany
I am a user of the Framemeister and happy with it, concerning 240p and 480i Content. But I do not like the 480p scaling of the Framemeister for some reasons. Apparently I am not the only one because the Framemeister is known for not being the best choice for 480p Content.


According to my Research good devices are either the OSSC (I know it is not a upscaler per se) or the one the Extron scalers.

Watched some Videos on YouTube for the Marseile m classic too. The results for Dreamcast and Gamecube games seems to be good as well.

So which of them would be the best one to pick?

Thanks for your help in Advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:09 am 


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Does your TV support the OSSC's higher resolutions? If so I would go with the OSSC for 480p > 960p every day of the week. It just looks amazing with sources like Dreamcast and Gamecube :)

I don't like the Framemeister for 480p content either. The image is too soft and if I recall has a bit of ringing that I can't stand. I can't imagine a world where the mClassic performs better than the Framemeister though. For 480p content it has pretty bad ringing AND it messes with the contrast of the image. I don't understand the appeal of this product at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:20 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
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Location: Germany
Until this post I could not find any solid info About the compability of my specific TV model and the OSSC to be honest. So I cannot say if my Sony TV could Display all the modes the OSSC has to offer.

But in the end that does not matter. The TV is About being displayed with a Oled Screen in the autumn anyway. If I should decide to go with the OSSC I can chose a TV that is known to work properly with the OSSC.


edit: concerning the M Classic I see. Then some youtubers put on me on the wrong path. They were speaking highly of it, so I thought considering it.

But if is no good for 480p Content then I give it a pass. I am looking for a good solution that is superior to the Framemeister .


Last edited by iceman_0 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:27 am 


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Location: Denmark
Then I would go with the OSSC for sure, worst case you would just have to wait for the new TV. I use it for all 240p and 480p, and only use my Framemeister for 480i these days. It's a great combination.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 pm 


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OSSC aside (which doesn't give you full picture controls), the best (while reasonably priced) scaler for 480p material you can get today is the EXTRON DSC 301 HD. 2nd hand units are around $100 (plus shipping and VAT) from ebay.com.

These accept VGA, HDMI and component using a simple YUV/VGA adapter plug for a few EUR.

You get stellar scaling, framelocked output (no framerate conversion if you don't want one) full aspect ratio and overscan controls. Lovely unit, which I wouldn't want to miss....


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:25 pm 


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iceman_0 wrote:

edit: concerning the M Classic I see. Then some youtubers put on me on the wrong path. They were speaking highly of it, so I thought considering it.

But if is no good for 480p Content then I give it a pass. I am looking for a good solution that is superior to the Framemeister .


Unfortunately many youtubers that review products are paid, the product was free or both. So they can't exactly be trusted to make an honest review.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:16 pm 


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Extron DSC 301 HD.

Good unit at a reasonable price right now.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:38 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 139
orange808 wrote:
Extron DSC 301 HD.

Does this have a 4:4:R color pipeline or does it knock things down to 4:2:2?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:58 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1367
energizerfellow‌ wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Extron DSC 301 HD.

Does this have a 4:4:R color pipeline or does it knock things down to 4:2:2?

There's no mention of 4:4:4 anywhere in the user guide or on the product page, aside from a link to a 4:4:4 test image, so it's not clear. I'm only seeing explicit mentions of 4:4:4 in conjunction with the 4K version(s).


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:10 pm 


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it's 100% 4:4:4 for the full processing path.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm 


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energizerfellow‌ wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Extron DSC 301 HD.

Does this have a 4:4:R color pipeline or does it knock things down to 4:2:2?


I believe it is 4:4:4 / no compression / full chroma.

But, I admit, Fudoh is the video expert and he can give you the best confirmation. (I suspect he doesn't even need a test pattern to spot subsampling.)

Edit: I see he already confirmed it. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:06 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
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Location: Germany
Thanks a lot for the further replies. I will check out the extron 301 HD for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:31 pm 


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iceman_0 wrote:
Thanks a lot for the further replies. I will check out the extron 301 HD for sure.


I can confirm, Fudoh recommended to me the Extron DSC 301 HD about a year ago and I am super appreciative of that, it's probably the best AV related hardware I bought, it's not only helpful for 480p content, but 720p content as well (I use it with my PS3 and PS TV since the PS3 almost has no 1080p support for games and PS TV doesn't do 1080p.)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:01 pm 


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guys don't forget about the Extron DSC HD-HD

it's basically the same thing as the DSC 301 HD with no analog inputs


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:25 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
guys don't forget about the Extron DSC HD-HD

it's basically the same thing as the DSC 301 HD with no analog inputs


True. It's similar.

No framelock, though. No 960p inside a 1080p frame.

Also, the HD-HD isn't selling at lower prices than the DSC 301 HD unit, so the 301 HD makes more sense.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:25 am 


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orange808 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
guys don't forget about the Extron DSC HD-HD

it's basically the same thing as the DSC 301 HD with no analog inputs


True. It's similar.

No framelock, though. No 960p inside a 1080p frame.

Also, the HD-HD isn't selling at lower prices than the DSC 301 HD unit, so the 301 HD makes more sense.

I agree the 301 HD is the better unit, but I've found both of them to be fairly scarce on ebay so it helps to have options


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:21 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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maxtherabbit wrote:
orange808 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
guys don't forget about the Extron DSC HD-HD

it's basically the same thing as the DSC 301 HD with no analog inputs


True. It's similar.

No framelock, though. No 960p inside a 1080p frame.

Also, the HD-HD isn't selling at lower prices than the DSC 301 HD unit, so the 301 HD makes more sense.

I agree the 301 HD is the better unit, but I've found both of them to be fairly scarce on ebay so it helps to have options


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... d&_sacat=0

there are more 301 HD available than HD-HD atm, though they are similarly priced now.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:17 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 520
Nice thing about the HD-HD is that it's very compact. Would it work to use a VGA to HDMI adapter to get analog sources into an HD-HD? If so, it would be same as a DSC 301 except without the genlock feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:41 pm 


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Quote:
Would it work to use a VGA to HDMI adapter to get analog sources into an HD-HD?

in theory, but most of the cheaper VGA to HDMI converters have sampling problems (sampling VESA 640x480 instead of SMPTE 720x480).

Quote:
If so, it would be same as a DSC 301 except without the genlock feature.

and without any zooming/overscan/underscan functions.

The HD-HD is really great of for capture applications. You place it on front your capture box and it will make almost anything compatible, normalize your framerate and resolutions). But if you want a unit for actually playing, the 301 is the better unit. And we're not talking rack sized units here either. The 301 about the size of two DVD cases on top of each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:43 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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In my case I already have an HD-HD and have not felt the need to upscale any analog sources, but it'd be fun to mess around with it, maybe try to upscale 480p from a Dreamcast now that I finally put one in my setup. Any recommendations for VGA-HDMI converters that don't have sampling problems?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:42 pm 


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Quote:
Any recommendations for VGA-HDMI converters that don't have sampling problems?

OSSC.

If you're looking for a cheaper route, go component first, either using a transcoder or just getting YUV cables for the DC. Component to HDMI converters are dead cheap and they don't have the sampling issues that the VGA converters have.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:23 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Any recommendations for VGA-HDMI converters that don't have sampling problems?

OSSC.

If you're looking for a cheaper route, go component first, either using a transcoder or just getting YUV cables for the DC. Component to HDMI converters are dead cheap and they don't have the sampling issues that the VGA converters have.

The Dreamcast component cables sadly remain vaporware for the moment


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:31 pm 


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ok, I thought at least the the ones by retrogamingcables.co.uk were supposed to be available already or quite soon'ish.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:35 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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I hate component and never use it for anything. RGB or death.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:39 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
I hate component and never use it for anything. RGB or death.

that's cool and all, but finding a ADC that will sample 480p over RGB at 858 samples per line (as opposed to 800 for VESA 640x480) is tricky - whereas on the component side they all do by default

only nicer scalers like the OSSC and the extron stuff usually let you choose 858px/line sample rate for 480 line content over RGB


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:57 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
ok, I thought at least the the ones by retrogamingcables.co.uk were supposed to be available already or quite soon'ish.

their website just says "coming soon"

which as we all know, might as well say coming in 900 years


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:05 pm 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
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Konsolkongen wrote:
Does your TV support the OSSC's higher resolutions? If so I would go with the OSSC for 480p > 960p every day of the week. It just looks amazing with sources like Dreamcast and Gamecube :)

I don't like the Framemeister for 480p content either. The image is too soft and if I recall has a bit of ringing that I can't stand. I can't imagine a world where the mClassic performs better than the Framemeister though. For 480p content it has pretty bad ringing AND it messes with the contrast of the image. I don't understand the appeal of this product at all.

The Mcable doesn't upscale anything. It just filters the image before your TV upscales it.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:11 pm 


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BONKERS wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
Does your TV support the OSSC's higher resolutions? If so I would go with the OSSC for 480p > 960p every day of the week. It just looks amazing with sources like Dreamcast and Gamecube :)

I don't like the Framemeister for 480p content either. The image is too soft and if I recall has a bit of ringing that I can't stand. I can't imagine a world where the mClassic performs better than the Framemeister though. For 480p content it has pretty bad ringing AND it messes with the contrast of the image. I don't understand the appeal of this product at all.

The Mcable doesn't upscale anything. It just filters the image before your TV upscales it.


Well, I got one for $59. When it arrives, I'll make certain.

Although, I strongly suspect the cable does include an upscaler of some sort.

Of course, it's not something you want to use with pixel art.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:21 pm 


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If you want a direct ADC RGBHV to HDMI, the Extron DVC RGB-HD A lets you tweak the sampling.

I don't know if it accepts 480i or 240p.

It's expensive, though. You'd probably be better off using the OSSC (unless you absolutely need the LPF).
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for good upscaler 480p content only
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:24 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
If you want a direct ADC RGBHV to HDMI, the Extron DVC RGB-HD A lets you tweak the sampling.

I don't know if it accepts 480i or 240p.

It's expensive, though. You'd probably be better off using the OSSC (unless you absolutely need the LPF).

Extron RGB-HDMI 300 can handle that task just fine and is very cheap. Sampling rate is fully adjustable


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