shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:55 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Games that are boring to you. There are plenty of people that think gaming is better than it has ever been and think old games are lame.

But that aside, you are wrong on the financial stuff, games are extremely expensive to make now.


Based on what? If you are claiming that the cost of making games is going up, we need to see proof.

I.e. Show us supporting data with a credible explanation as to why making PS4 games is fundamentally less financially efficient than making the same game on the PS3.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:53 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
Guspaz wrote:
Nintendo has used ARM processors in every single handheld console for the past 18 years, so using an ARM processor in their newest one is hardly a bold move, it's a continuation of what they've done for the last two decades. It would be far more surprising/bold if Nintendo had chosen something other than ARM for a handheld device. There aren't really any alternatives, AMD's power efficiency isn't good enough at TDPs that low, and Intel refuses to do semi-custom chips (it's why all the consoles went AMD).

They don't care about the public perception of ARM processor performance relative to that of x86 or any other, because 99.9% of their customers have no idea what an ARM is or what kind of processor is in the Switch.

The perception isn't accurate at comparable TDPs anyhow. If memory serves, the Apple A12X has performance comparable to an Intel i7 mobile chip with a comparable core count. Which makes sense, processor performance has little to do with instruction set.



It's not just 99.9% of Nintendo's customers who don't care about all that technical gibberish. It's 99.9% of planet earth (at least). Still, Nintendo do seem to have a better grasp on what matters or at least, they used to.

The Nintendo Wii is a great example of the potential financial rewards from genuine innovation. It provided a whole new gaming experience and total sales were over 101,000,000. That's more than current PS4 sales and considerably more than PS3 sales.

The Wii implementation feels a little crude by current standards but at the time it attracted a lot of new customers who were never previously interested in video games. It's the only console my wife and her friends ever wanted to play on.

Even Sony, the self proclaimed market leader, copied Nintendo's peripheral design. I thought it was going to be the start of a new era of innovation with how we interact with games. But then.... They all seemed to just forget and it was back to the joypad (aside from a few poorly thought out VR titles).

That's a long way of saying that I am still hoping to see arcade quality peripherals and I want them a lot more than more dots on the screen.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:57 am 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Posts: 1372
Location: Eating the Rich
Classicgamer wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Games that are boring to you. There are plenty of people that think gaming is better than it has ever been and think old games are lame.

But that aside, you are wrong on the financial stuff, games are extremely expensive to make now.


Based on what? If you are claiming that the cost of making games is going up, we need to see proof.

I.e. Show us supporting data with a credible explanation as to why making PS4 games is fundamentally less financially efficient than making the same game on the PS3.


Someone else posted a forbes link in this thread. There are all kinds of articles about game production cost.

But if you really need it: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=rising+video+game+costs

Whether or not it's a necessity is another discussion entirely but the fact of the matter is big game budgets are enormous.

If your claim is simply video games can be cheap to make I wouldn't refute that. Indie companies exist after all. It's not the approach big studios are going to take. As far as dev costs vs ps3 they were already getting crazy then but you can just look at the numbers steadily increasing over time with Hollywood style bs.

Classicgamer wrote:
That's a long way of saying that I am still hoping to see arcade quality peripherals and I want them a lot more than more dots on the screen.


I get where you are coming from here but sometimes your niche just doesn't get served. There are lots of quality peripherals out there (I have flight sim gear and higher end racing wheels) but I assume you are wanting a light gun specifically. That genre is pretty dead. Kinda sad as I did enjoy LG games on PS1/Saturn/PS2 but times change.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:52 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1188
Here's a link with more useful information.

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKos ... _games.php

Be aware that we all operate on that site using our real names. It's not neogaf.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2305
Location: DFW area, Texas
I saw in another video that the spec and guts for the PS5 and "XBox 1 X SG-1 X-One" are effectively identical since both companies have outsourced to AMD. I guess at that point, it will really come down to exclusives.
_________________
Web Site: http://www.firebrandx.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FBXGargoyle?lang=en


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:00 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
orange808 wrote:
Here's a link with more useful information.

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKos ... _games.php

Be aware that we all operate on that site using our real names. It's not neogaf.



That blog is hardly definitive proof that it costs more to make a game for the PS4 than for the PS3 or PS2.

He only had data from 250 games (since 1980) out of hundreds of thousands and even then, his inflation adjusted numbers show costs to be relatively flat since the 3d games era started. There are a handful of outliers but that only proves that you can spend more, not that you have to.

It also ignores a crucial and far more important aspect of the video games financial model. I.e. That they also make more profit per game now. They are not spending more with the expectation of making less...

A popular console now sells over 100,000,000 units giving them twice as many potential customers as they had in the Snes era.

The cost of manufacturing each game has gone down considerably. Disc's cost a tiny fraction of what carts cost to make and now, game downloads have overtaken physical media sales on the PS4. Meanwhile the retail price of games has remained the same.

So, the argument that increasing game development costs is an acceptable excuse for the lack of innovation is BS.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:19 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Games that are boring to you. There are plenty of people that think gaming is better than it has ever been and think old games are lame.

But that aside, you are wrong on the financial stuff, games are extremely expensive to make now.


Based on what? If you are claiming that the cost of making games is going up, we need to see proof.

I.e. Show us supporting data with a credible explanation as to why making PS4 games is fundamentally less financially efficient than making the same game on the PS3.


Someone else posted a forbes link in this thread. There are all kinds of articles about game production cost.

But if you really need it: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=rising+video+game+costs

Whether or not it's a necessity is another discussion entirely but the fact of the matter is big game budgets are enormous.

If your claim is simply video games can be cheap to make I wouldn't refute that. Indie companies exist after all. It's not the approach big studios are going to take. As far as dev costs vs ps3 they were already getting crazy then but you can just look at the numbers steadily increasing over time with Hollywood style bs.

Classicgamer wrote:
That's a long way of saying that I am still hoping to see arcade quality peripherals and I want them a lot more than more dots on the screen.


I get where you are coming from here but sometimes your niche just doesn't get served. There are lots of quality peripherals out there (I have flight sim gear and higher end racing wheels) but I assume you are wanting a light gun specifically. That genre is pretty dead. Kinda sad as I did enjoy LG games on PS1/Saturn/PS2 but times change.



I do want better light guns but that is not what I was getting at. I am talking about new ways of interacting with games to open up new game designs. They seem to be stuck in the figurative and literal box (I.e. New consoles are just another black box with a joypad).

It's great that we now have race wheels with forceback but that was innovation and progress from the PS3 era. We need more.

I guess they made a kind of attempt with VR but I consider that to be stupidity. History should have taught them that people do not like wearing devices on their face while watching movies or playing games. Also, that new hardware without a quality library of universally desirable titles always fails. They can't expect people to buy 50,000,000 units before they start supporting it.


As a side note, there is at least 3 new light gun technologies this year (Hyperkin, Polymega and Sinden). Why? Because they know that it is far more than a niche. I am not excited about any of them though. It's more like catching up than progress.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1188
Classicgamer wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Here's a link with more useful information.

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKos ... _games.php

Be aware that we all operate on that site using our real names. It's not neogaf.



That blog is hardly definitive proof that it costs more to make a game for the PS4 than for the PS3 or PS2.

He only had data from 250 games (since 1980) out of hundreds of thousands and even then, his inflation adjusted numbers show costs to be relatively flat since the 3d games era started. There are a handful of outliers but that only proves that you can spend more, not that you have to.

It also ignores a crucial and far more important aspect of the video games financial model. I.e. That they also make more profit per game now. They are not spending more with the expectation of making less...

A popular console now sells over 100,000,000 units giving them twice as many potential customers as they had in the Snes era.

The cost of manufacturing each game has gone down considerably. Disc's cost a tiny fraction of what carts cost to make and now, game downloads have overtaken physical media sales on the PS4. Meanwhile the retail price of games has remained the same.

So, the argument that increasing game development costs is an acceptable excuse for the lack of innovation is BS.


I like turtles.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:23 pm 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 668
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Seriously. Stop feeding the damn troll. It's quite obvious CG just doesn't want to listen to the counterpoints he's pretending to ask for.

Anyone with a moderate level of interest in the gaming scene is well aware of the changes in the industry over the past 15 years or so that have led to massive ballooning of budgets. Games with $100 million-plus development costs have been cited. This is general-type knowledge that shouldn't demand specific citations in a forum like this.

But for God's sake, if you're going to ask for specific citations over and over, at least listen to the people taking the time to give them to you.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:53 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1367
bigbadboaz wrote:
Seriously. Stop feeding the damn troll. It's quite obvious CG just doesn't want to listen to the counterpoints he's pretending to ask for.

Anyone with a moderate level of interest in the gaming scene is well aware of the changes in the industry over the past 15 years or so that have led to massive ballooning of budgets. Games with $100 million-plus development costs have been cited. This is general-type knowledge that shouldn't demand specific citations in a forum like this.

But for God's sake, if you're going to ask for specific citations over and over, at least listen to the people taking the time to give them to you.

No one's honestly denying that budgets have dramatically increased, but an increased budget does not necessarily mean the development work itself costs more.

If the cost of development tools and staff has increased over the past 15 years, then yes, I would agree that it costs more to develop games these days than it used to; however, if wages and/or licensing fees have stagnated or decreased, then I would say development costs have not risen.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1188
Goodness sakes.

Please take the "game development costs" thing to Gamasutra where it belongs.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:08 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
The reality is that we don't have good data on average game development costs for current or previous generations. It's like arguing about whether God exists when nobody really knows. What we do have somewhat decent data on is that video gaming is a market that has been growing in popularity and profitability steadily since the mid 80's. I.e. Game developers are not financially worse off.

In some ways, I think success can breed complacency and stagnation. It's harder to take a risk when you have an existing model that sells well. Why shake things up when the PS4 sold 100,000,000 units. You make changes when people stop buying.

I'm curious to see how well the PS5 will sell. There are clearly some users who would be happy with more of the same with a moderate graphics upgrade.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:57 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2047
Location: Montréal, Canada
FBX wrote:
I saw in another video that the spec and guts for the PS5 and "XBox 1 X SG-1 X-One" are effectively identical since both companies have outsourced to AMD. I guess at that point, it will really come down to exclusives.


The XB1 and PS4 both had AMD APUs using the same CPU/GPU architectures, and they still had differences. Beyond the basic compute power (the XB1 clocked the CPU and GPU higher, but the PS4 had a bunch more compute cores), they had a pretty different memory setup. The XB1 had low-bandwidth DDR3 with a small high-bandwidth ESRAM cache, while the PS4 had high-bandwidth GDDR5 with a modest amount of DDR3 for background tasks.

They got a bit more similar with the XB1X and PS4P, since the XB1X moved to GDDR5 and dropped the ESRAM, but there were differences still in quantities, where the XB1X had a lot more RAM and compute units than the PS4P.

I think it's entirely possible that we'll end up with a somewhat similar situation with the XB2 and PS5. Very similar architecturally, but with differences in clockspeeds and quantities.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:15 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2019
Posts: 31
Classicgamer wrote:
...It also ignores a crucial and far more important aspect of the video games financial model. I.e. That they also make more profit per game now. They are not spending more with the expectation of making less...

A popular console now sells over 100,000,000 units giving them twice as many potential customers as they had in the Snes era.

The cost of manufacturing each game has gone down considerably. Disc's cost a tiny fraction of what carts cost to make and now, game downloads have overtaken physical media sales on the PS4. Meanwhile the retail price of games has remained the same.

Actually that "blog" lends credibility to your assertion that the "cost per byte" to develop games decreased exponentially from 1985 to around 2004. However, since then it has plateaued. Assuming this data set is representative of the real DATA (which we cannot), then the evidence suggests games are cheaper to develop per byte compared to pre 2004, but not since. True, the market for game and console sales is larger than ever. This is why the Developer cost per MB is trending downward (more evidence in your favor). So potential rewards are larger, which in turn justifies larger budgets. But it also increases the stakes. Also note that the data is skewed in recent years by the emergence of Mobile and indie. These have smaller budgets and represent more of the industry now. Mobile has the largest market share (source), with consoles next and PC trailing. AAA and AA console games are not getting cheaper to make and market[1][2]. That makes them more risky endeavors, especially now that there are more affordable options for making money (indie/mobile). This dilutes the talent pool of available developers and might help explain where innovation in the console market went.

Classicgamer wrote:
That blog is hardly definitive proof that it costs more to make a game for the PS4 than for the PS3 or PS2.

He only had data from 250 games (since 1980) out of hundreds of thousands and even then, his inflation adjusted numbers show costs to be relatively flat since the 3d games era started. There are a handful of outliers but that only proves that you can spend more, not that you have to.

Did you know the word "proof" is taboo in science. The reason is because there is very little that can actually be proven. Evidence is the word you're looking for. Note, the graphs of development costs over time that look "flat" on that "blog" are logarithmic in the y -axis. That's how you transform an exponential relationship to apply a regression line (to extrapolate future costs). That relatively flat line represents an exponential increase in the cost of games (about 10x every decade). Assuming this data set is accurate (which we cannot), then the evidence suggests games are 10x more expensive to develop now than they were when the "cost per byte" plateaued. The potential to sell more copies could conceivably make up the difference, but the plateau in "cost/byte" eats into those margins. Unless the game is a hit, they are getting less profitable. Either way, they're more risky to develop. The AAA $ trends action/Shooter because these are the most popular/profitable genera respectively in the largest demographic (adults). And while microtransactions and digital sales are encroaching, physical releases still hold the majority of market share. Moreover, there are a minimum number of people required to complete a game, and that number increases with more complex graphics. You have to pay them! AAA is expensive/risky. So they stick to the formula, not much innovation. AA is less expensive to develop, but you still have to market it aggressively. And marketing budgets often rival AAA development costs. That's very hit or miss, perhaps even more risky that AAA. Indie doesn't have alot to spend, but the complexity of the game is the trade off.

Classicgamer wrote:
So, the argument that increasing game development costs is an acceptable excuse for the lack of innovation is BS.

I agree with that sentiment, and indie agrees too. That argument doesn't mean the same thing to executives of a for profit company. They would argue that these are fiscal realities that have to be dealt with. Sacrifices have to be made and the industry is constantly changing. You can't please everyone and frankly, very few companies can afford to take risks. They only care about their target market, the cash cows, and sure things - which leaves many of us hanging out to dry. That's not to say there isn't good content out there, it's just less diverse. And IMO that reflects changes in the industry more so than in market taste. Mobile/indie have have raided the developer pool of talent and bigger companies, who can afford to develop the mid-range (~$50 million) console games, won't take the risk as often now as they would have in the 90s (my opinion).

Classicgamer wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Games that are boring to you. There are plenty of people that think gaming is better than it has ever been and think old games are lame.

But that aside, you are wrong on the financial stuff, games are extremely expensive to make now.


Based on what? If you are claiming that the cost of making games is going up, we need to see proof.

I.e. Show us supporting data with a credible explanation as to why making PS4 games is fundamentally less financially efficient than making the same game on the PS3.

So these data sets are never going to show a perfect correlation. Even if they did, correlation is not causation. So yeah, this DATA doesn't "prove" anything. But it's more than speculation, and that's what you asked for.

BTW: I don't think you're a troll. You make some important points and I respect that, but I currently disagree with you. Cited above is why. And you're not wrong to ask for people to backup their position. DATA changes and opinions should be informed by facts...frequently;)


Last edited by RIP-Felix on Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:20 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2016
Posts: 273
The biggest step forward for this next gen will be ray tracing implementation which both platforms will have. Nvidia have already made the first steps on this but nobody knows what AMD’s version will be like yet. It should be an interesting year ahead. Apart from that and 4K/60hz which I already have on PC, I can’t see what will be achieved on consoles that couldn’t be before. We are definitely hitting diminishing returns territory.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:00 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2305
Location: DFW area, Texas
Guspaz wrote:
I think it's entirely possible that we'll end up with a somewhat similar situation with the XB2 and PS5. Very similar architecturally, but with differences in clockspeeds and quantities.


I was aware of the current gen variations, and after reading more articles on the next gen, I think you're right in that we'll almost certainly see variations again. I've always gone the Sony route, but after finding out the current gen has the Microsoft console performing better, I think I will hold off on the PS5 and see what comes of performance tests on Digital Foundry.
_________________
Web Site: http://www.firebrandx.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FBXGargoyle?lang=en


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2047
Location: Montréal, Canada
This generation wasn't even the first time. The 360 and PS3 were a somewhat similar situation, where IBM was designing the Cell for Sony/Toshiba, but then Microsoft showed up and wanted a chip for the 360, so IBM just took the Cell's PPE, tweaked it a bit, and slapped three of them together to make the 360's CPU. Turns out that when two companies try to build products with identical use cases and similar cost factors, they often end up with similar solutions :)

For raytracing, it's not clear what's going on there. AMD has been pretty clear that they're not planning to do dedicated raytracing hardware, but Sony/Microsoft seem to be indicating that they've got some raytracing-specific hardware... I wonder if we might see some sort of half measure where they add some bits and bobs to accelerate raytracing with gpu compute.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:28 pm 



Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Who cares!i just want some one to invent a hd mod for my Saturn!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2047
Location: Montréal, Canada
Would that really be so improved over RGB or HDRV cables into a retrotink/ossc/framemeister?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:45 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
LDigital wrote:
The biggest step forward for this next gen will be ray tracing implementation which both platforms will have. Nvidia have already made the first steps on this but nobody knows what AMD’s version will be like yet. It should be an interesting year ahead. Apart from that and 4K/60hz which I already have on PC, I can’t see what will be achieved on consoles that couldn’t be before. We are definitely hitting diminishing returns territory.


I think you are correct about the biggest step forward in terms of hardware will be real-time Ray tracing. That is, if it actually manifests in games as both Sony and Microsoft claim.

Anybody who has ever done any 3d rendering in programs like Maya and Showcase will know how much difference Ray tracing makes. It adds a level of realism and it is necessary if the aim is to make graphics photo-realistic. To be able to do it in real-time in games would be potentially impressive. With current consumer hardware it can take several minutes to render a single frame with Ray tracing.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2047
Location: Montréal, Canada
Don't expect much. Real-time ray tracing isn't terribly practical even on the highest-end consumer GPUs that have hardware ray tracing support. It's not just a gimmick, like programmable pixel shaders they need to ship hardware with it to start building support, but like programmable pixel shaders, they won't be particularly useful until the second or third generation hardware.

It's also worth noting that, with the exception of some tech demos like Quake II RTX, no commercial game is using ray-traced rendering. They're all using it for lighting or some specific effect. They're all hybrid raster/raytrace.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:40 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
What would be on your wish lists if Sony were to ask what you want to see on the PS5 (besides better graphics) ?

I'd like to see:

- dual video outputs to allow for multi-player games without needing a second console and 2 copies of the game. Split screen driving or fps games look terrible and online gaming is no substitute for having actual friends over for a game. Even cheap PC graphics cards have been able to drive two monitors for years...

- Better controllers. Previous generations added analog controls, then dual analog sticks and vibration. Then we got force feedback race wheels and the PSmove / Wii style controllers. I feel like we're ready for the next thing. 3rd party VR startups have only managed to bring out a handful off expensive low quality peripherals. We need Sony to step up.

- Quality built-in upscaling capability so people don't have to spend $400 on an XRGB mini to enjoy older games on their 4k and 8k tv's. Backwards compatibility would be nice so people can sell their old consoles to buy the new one.

- Removable and upgradable standard SSD hard drives. It is not reasonable to continue charging a large premium for small increases in local storage.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2047
Location: Montréal, Canada
Some of that stuff is already confirmed. They've got backwards compatibility with the previous generation, Microsoft has already been doing the scaling and run-older-games-at-higher-res stuff on the XB1X (and I think the PS4 Pro can upscale 1080p games to 4K, even if it's just an upscale and not native 4K), and a move to all-SSD storage (some sort of proprietary but very fast SSD that acts as a kind of hybrid RAM/storage for super fast loads).

Dual monitor outputs would be too niche to justify the added expense for all consumers, and analog input/upscaling has no place in such a device, it's so enormously outside the target market and purpose of the product.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 494
Classicgamer wrote:
- Removable and upgradable standard SSD hard drives. It is not reasonable to continue charging a large premium for small increases in local storage.

Both the PS3 and PS4 had that already, fully documented in the console's manual and without voiding the warranty. It is posible that the situation will become more complicated with the PS5 though because Sony has already announced that they'll use a fast SSD as storage for the next generation. It could still be user-upgradeable if they use NVME drives in an M2 or U2 format though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:22 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
Unseen wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
- Removable and upgradable standard SSD hard drives. It is not reasonable to continue charging a large premium for small increases in local storage.

Both the PS3 and PS4 had that already, fully documented in the console's manual and without voiding the warranty. It is posible that the situation will become more complicated with the PS5 though because Sony has already announced that they'll use a fast SSD as storage for the next generation. It could still be user-upgradeable if they use NVME drives in an M2 or U2 format though.



I'd like to see a bunch of easily accessible (external) hard drive slots so they can be switched like cartridges . As we've all seen, our storage requirements grow over time as games get larger (in memory usage) and we acquire more titles. If my HD gets full, I'd like to be able to add a second or third without needing a screw driver.

I guess I'd like to see an easy upgrade path for other components too. I.e. If you could open compartment with slots to add a second gpu, more ram and maybe even switch out the CPU in a few years. I think that would be better than bringing out a PS5 pro without an upgrade path for existing users.

You could pretty much guarantee that, however great the PS5 CPU and GPU is, it will seem dated in a few years time...


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6711
Location: block
Maybe in the future SSDs will be the new 'carts' (assuming physical releases will still be a thing)
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:52 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 627
Guspaz wrote:
Some of that stuff is already confirmed. They've got backwards compatibility with the previous generation, Microsoft has already been doing the scaling and run-older-games-at-higher-res stuff on the XB1X (and I think the PS4 Pro can upscale 1080p games to 4K, even if it's just an upscale and not native 4K), and a move to all-SSD storage (some sort of proprietary but very fast SSD that acts as a kind of hybrid RAM/storage for super fast loads).

Dual monitor outputs would be too niche to justify the added expense for all consumers, and analog input/upscaling has no place in such a device, it's so enormously outside the target market and purpose of the product.



When I talk about upscaling to avoid needing an XRGB mini, I am talking about older 240p and 480p games which all look terrible on the PS3 and PS4 on 1080p or 4k tv's. Their upscaling capability is terrible. 1080 to 2160 is easy and is already done well by most modern tv's.

On support for dual monitors, this is neither expensive or niche. It's almost always available on the cheapest $30 PC graphics cards because it is not a premium feature. Never was.

A large portion of PC gamers or other types of PC users already use multiple monitors. Almost every multi player driving game in the arcades used a screen for each player. And... Most households own more than one TV. And, the vast majority of gamers dislike split-screen games.

What was a niche market was dual screens requiring users to buy two consoles and two copies of a game. Given how cheap flatscreen monitors are these days, being able to drive two screens to race against a friend with one copy of the game and one console would have broad appeal (for people who actually have friends).

I use 3 monitors side by side on my gaming PC for FPS and driving games (that support it). It is awesome and adds far more to the experience than going to 4k on a single screen. If PS5 hardware can handle 4k content, it should be able to handle 5760 x 1080 ultra wide games.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:55 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 494
Classicgamer wrote:
If my HD gets full, I'd like to be able to add a second or third without needing a screw driver.

Both Xbox One and PS4 support that already, just plug in a USB drive.

Quote:
I guess I'd like to see an easy upgrade path for other components too. I.e. If you could open compartment with slots to add a second gpu, more ram and maybe even switch out the CPU in a few years.

That also already exists, it's called a PC ;)

Classicgamer wrote:
On support for dual monitors, this is neither expensive or niche. It's almost always available on the cheapest $30 PC graphics cards because it is not a premium feature. Never was.

Remember the original PS3 announcement, when it was supposed to have dual HDMI outputs and three GBit ethernet interfaces?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Dec 2015
Posts: 151
Location: Norway
Unseen wrote:
Remember the original PS3 announcement, when it was supposed to have dual HDMI outputs and three GBit ethernet interfaces?


I sure do. I also remember a lot of people thinking 1080P/60 would be the norm for that generation...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:55 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 668
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Good old Kutaragi. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andykara2003, Shiver_169 and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group