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 Post subject: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progress?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:10 pm 



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YouTube is full of these Spiderman PS4 VS PS4 Pro videos with the general consensus being "why did Sony even bother?".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jStRBmQ2CGo

Watching the videos, it's hard to argue with that. The benefit from your $200 upgrade is so minuscule that you can literally only see it with a 3x magnification on a still screen.

I know that the PS4 pro is a stop-gap upgrade rather than true "next gen" hardware but it demonstrates how large sounding spec upgrades can make virtually no difference.

The now published specs of the upcoming PS5 and the new Xbox consoles looks decidedly unexciting. The only meaningful upgrade is real-time ray tracing. I know from my Maya renderings how Ray tracing adds to realism but I suspect that 99% of users won't even notice.

What do you guys think? Is the current focus on adding tflops akin to the bit race of the 90's? Or are you super excited about the PS5 and expecting genuine progress?


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:33 pm 


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A recent Digital Foundry really nailed it: PS4 is a 1080p system and so is the PS4 Pro. You basically get the PRO update to smooth out framerate dips you find when using the base PS4 model or get 60Hz for titles that only 30fps on the base model, but offer 60fps on the Pro. And I think that's way more important than the extra resolution some games offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:34 pm 


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The PS4 Pro and XB1X have a much easier time hitting a solid 60FPS, resolution aside.

The CPU in the PS4/XB1 was severely underpowered, with roughly equivalent performance to a dual core Intel i3 from 2013 despite being eight-core parts. The CPU in the PS5/XB2 is a massive improvement in performance by moving from Jaguar to Zen 2 (AKA Ryzen 3000).

The CPU is the largest bottleneck for improving framerates. The new consoles will support VRR and 120Hz, which can already be found on mainstream TVs like LG's 2019 OLED displays. That'll be a pretty big qualitative improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:41 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
A recent Digital Foundry really nailed it: PS4 is a 1080p system and so is the PS4 Pro. You basically get the PRO update to smooth out framerate dips you find when using the base PS4 model or get 60Hz for titles that only 30fps on the base model, but offer 60fps on the Pro. And I think that's way more important than the extra resolution some games offer.

Was just gonna mention the DF ep on this :mrgreen:

Yep they really nailed it. That's totally how I see it myself


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:43 pm 


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There are more meaningful basic vs. pro comparison videos out there, some games benefit on graphics, some on framerate, and it's often only a little improvement.
Naturally, the Pro was only a small upgrade (at high price).
I wonder if people are really fixated on that Spidey game in particular though, what would be the reason? a new random meme?

Comparing the 16bit was different in that they were more different hardwares, today the consoles are more like PCs often carrying the same games so it's rather boring.
And it goes on, more akin to PC gaming comparisons and who has the biggest d*** of a GPU, so...I won't be much interested in comparing results on the upcoming consoles, just more of the same a bit like Hollywood and its green background blockbusters that cost more than sending a rocket to the moon.

Before even looking awesome games need to be interesting and plenty on the platform, and the basic console experience must remain a thing, as always, the consoles that tick those boxes win the market, is there even anything left for debate?
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:41 pm 


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Well, they're going to need to be progressive. So, at the VERY least, they will need to be a System of Color (SOC), female or trans.
Anything less will not do. WE CAN DO BETTER.

That's what Extra Credits tells me.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:45 pm 



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You need to look at the difference in CPU architecture between the Jaguar in current-gen and Zen 2 in PS5. This is a huge difference and in exactly the area it's been needed. The potential is absolutely exciting.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:11 pm 



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I believe gaming is stuck in a rut. The PS2/Xbox era brought us into the current era and apart from resolutions, textures and NCP's doing more natural movements there is no change in the gameplay style.

I'm also going to use my old argument that AAA style games are stale and boring using the exact same formulas. When Xbox came onto the market it instilled a "reality engine" style of gameplay that is still with us today. I'd love to see more surreal style games that are imaginative and interesting rather than regurgitating FPS, sports and racing for 100 more years. Of course some of this works in the indie scene and sometimes it stretches into the realms of AAA but not quite.

An example i'd like to give is Shadow of the collossus. Its an amazing game to experience, it has a great story to follow and it is an emotional experience at times. Thats the kind of nextgen experience I want. I always look for games that are about exploration, mid paced, puzzle elements and great soundtracks.

Of course VR will become a selling point. I'd rather see it used in applications that are simple and interesting like a Space Harrier game or a Powerdrift style game. Where looking around adds a dynamic but its simple and fun.

There is no point consoles doing the whole "my cock is bigger than yours" thing. Because PC owners can spend x5 what the console costs and get a bigger cock than anyone elses. Its the content that drives a consoles success and if the buyers and developers agree that AAA is all about racing, Sports and FPS it doesn't matter to me.

Lets see what happens.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:21 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
You basically get the PRO update to smooth out framerate dips you find when using the base PS4 model or get 60Hz for titles that only 30fps on the base model, but offer 60fps on the Pro. And I think that's way more important than the extra resolution some games offer.


It's a little more complicated than just Base PS4 = 30fps and PS4 Pro = 60fps, please see here to get an idea on how chaotic and uneven it really is:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-ga ... ents.3101/

As you can unfortunately see, the reality is a not as black and white but rather it is all over the place, even your display native resolution comes into play in some instances (such as in the case of the Last Guardian and the Evil Within 2).


Classicgamer wrote:
Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progress?


Aren't next-gen consoles just going to be prebuilt gaming computers with a proprietary customized OS installed on top? So, I'd expect next-gen consoles to do whatever a gaming PC can do now, video games, especially western ones now are all basically just developed for computers and from there gets ported to consoles anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:56 pm 


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No more so than the current generation consoles do. What PC out there uses unified GDDR5 memory for both CPU and GPU like the PS4 did? What PC out there has two different classes of RAM for the CPU so that it can offload background tasks to much slower/cheaper RAM?

Just because they're x86 doesn't make them a PC any more than the GameCube was a Macintosh because it used a PowerPC CPU, or the SNES an Apple IIGS because it used the same CPU.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:45 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
No more so than the current generation consoles do. What PC out there uses unified GDDR5 memory for both CPU and GPU like the PS4 did? What PC out there has two different classes of RAM for the CPU so that it can offload background tasks to much slower/cheaper RAM?

Just because they're x86 doesn't make them a PC any more than the GameCube was a Macintosh because it used a PowerPC CPU, or the SNES an Apple IIGS because it used the same CPU.


From one viewpoint--that's true, but it's not particularly relevant to game development, because we don't work on the metal.

More precisely: Given the large amount of hardware abstraction on these console machines (and most any PC), that comparison doesn't make sense for most game devs. Why? We aren't working on the metal.

Efficient development for each platform can be daunting, but it's manageable. Furthermore, 90% of the optimisation work falls to middleware and/or in house game engine/tool development (usually a combination of both). We don't work on the metal.

So, it's actually nothing like trying to port Apple ][ gs code to a SNES. These machines are much more similar than those machines were--and there is more abstraction for game devs.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:52 pm 


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As far as I know, the degree of abstraction available today isn't radically different than it was on the 360, is it? So why would the XB1 or XB2 get derided as a "prebuilt gaming computer" when the 360 didn't?


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:43 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
As far as I know, the degree of abstraction available today isn't radically different than it was on the 360, is it? So why would the XB1 or XB2 get derided as a "prebuilt gaming computer" when the 360 didn't?


First of all, you brought up a pair of machines that used assembler (A2GS and SNES). Yes, I could use a coding language on the GS, but the code wouldn't be tight enough to get meaningful performance for games. That comparison makes no sense here.

Furthermore, I could make the same statements about PC hardware CPUs/GPUs from different manufacturers and different generations of CPUs/GPUs (not to mention differences between the motherboards, memory, and other essential hardware that supports those components). Yet, Linux and Windows still run on this huge fragmented hardware environment as a pair of individual generally unified ecosystems.

Additionally, these machines aren't being customized away from "glorified PCs" for the sake of becoming independent platforms. Maintaining a general level of compatibility with PC hardware is important, because hardware manufacturers don't want to code an operating system completely from scratch. It also helps with software, because cross development options create a larger game library, make it easier to write games, and attract developers.

Nobody writes code from scratch and directly on the metal anymore.

The hardware differences are more about saving money in manufacturing costs and DRM.

Once again, what you're saying makes little sense from a game dev standpoint. With source code in hand, porting between the consoles and the PC isn't nearly as daunting as porting an Apple ][ GS game to the SNES (or vice versa).

This is also relevant to our ability to fully realize and see the benefits of improved hardware (particularly with the latest "mid life" console upgrades that Sony and Microsoft offered, because there is so much abstraction, middleware, and focus on running software on all flavors of both Microsoft and Sony consoles).
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:49 pm 


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I'm not sure what you're actually arguing. My argument is that game consoles are not simply prebuilt PCs because there are notable architectural differences. You appear to be arguing that, due to abstraction at the API level, they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:03 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
I'm not sure what you're actually arguing. My argument is that game consoles are not simply prebuilt PCs because there are notable architectural differences. You appear to be arguing that, due to abstraction at the API level, they are.


I'm not arguing. I'm telling you. They effectively are.

The only thing that makes a "PC" a "PC" is running Windows or Linux. The hardware could run those OS if we wanted to. (Although, probably not as well as other machines.)

That ability is intentionally withheld from users for money. The DRM and closed ecosystem create an environment where Microsoft and Sony can control game sales, DRM, and charge for online play.

This has nothing to do with the way the Gamecube or SNES worked. The days of hardware manufacturers creating completely unique custom hardware, running a unique custom OS, and using unique assembler written specifically for the system are over and gone.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:23 pm 


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The PS2 did have an official Linux distro. Sony tried (and failed) to convince the US government that it was a PC for tax purposes. The Dreamcast had a version of Windows CE available. I don't think "runs Linux" is a good definition of a PC when you consider that people have Linux running on their wristwatch and refrigerator these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:12 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
The PS2 did have an official Linux distro. Sony tried (and failed) to convince the US government that it was a PC for tax purposes. The Dreamcast had a version of Windows CE available. I don't think "runs Linux" is a good definition of a PC when you consider that people have Linux running on their wristwatch and refrigerator these days.


You're moving the goalposts. :)

We're clearly discussing gaming PCs versus consoles that can run brand new AAA games.

Crippled limited versions of Windows and Linux exist in many environments, but we're discussing hardware that can run brand new AAA games.

The comparison examples you used initially triggered this, because the situation was wildly different and those machines were much more different. In many ways, the new consoles *are* glorified PC's and that's entirely by design.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:40 am 



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I think that the salient point is that all current and new computers are "virtual" in the sense that hardware is generic for the most part. This is most obvious if you look at the proposed specs of the next gen. The PS5 and the new Xbox currently use identical (or near identical) hardware. They will differ only in the operating system and bios if nothing changes before the launch.

I can live with consoles using identical hardware and I can live with them streamlining and simplifying hardware development with the use of generic PC hardware. What I can't live with is paying for new hardware that adds nothing meaningful to my experience.

Gaming PC's already fill that niche for people who want to constantly invest in new hardware for small incremental gains. They do it better than consoles as they are open and upgradable. When the PS5 arrives, Nvidia will likely offer a more powerful gpu for less than buying a whole new console.

Consoles aim to sell to a far broader and less technically proficient market. The vast majority don't understand or care about more t flops or Ray tracing. They certainly don't worry about framerate dips from turning on the motion blur setting, or having "real 4k" VS upscaled 4k.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:49 am 



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neorichieb1971 wrote:
I believe gaming is stuck in a rut. The PS2/Xbox era brought us into the current era and apart from resolutions, textures and NCP's doing more natural movements there is no change in the gameplay style.

I'm also going to use my old argument that AAA style games are stale and boring using the exact same formulas. When Xbox came onto the market it instilled a "reality engine" style of gameplay that is still with us today. I'd love to see more surreal style games that are imaginative and interesting rather than regurgitating FPS, sports and racing for 100 more years. Of course some of this works in the indie scene and sometimes it stretches into the realms of AAA but not quite.

An example i'd like to give is Shadow of the collossus. Its an amazing game to experience, it has a great story to follow and it is an emotional experience at times. Thats the kind of nextgen experience I want. I always look for games that are about exploration, mid paced, puzzle elements and great soundtracks.

Of course VR will become a selling point. I'd rather see it used in applications that are simple and interesting like a Space Harrier game or a Powerdrift style game. Where looking around adds a dynamic but its simple and fun.

There is no point consoles doing the whole "my cock is bigger than yours" thing. Because PC owners can spend x5 what the console costs and get a bigger cock than anyone elses. Its the content that drives a consoles success and if the buyers and developers agree that AAA is all about racing, Sports and FPS it doesn't matter to me.

Lets see what happens.



I agree 100%. I was starting to think it was just me.

A large portion of new games are simply boring to play. They look nice but they take too long to get into, they lack replay value, they force you to sit through boring cut scenes and gameplay often involves endless wandering through virtual worlds looking for stuff.

I often prefer retro stuff because I just want a quick game of something fun. I rarely want to spend all day working my way through a complex and boring game story.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:11 am 



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Classicgamer wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:
I believe gaming is stuck in a rut. The PS2/Xbox era brought us into the current era and apart from resolutions, textures and NCP's doing more natural movements there is no change in the gameplay style.

I'm also going to use my old argument that AAA style games are stale and boring using the exact same formulas. When Xbox came onto the market it instilled a "reality engine" style of gameplay that is still with us today. I'd love to see more surreal style games that are imaginative and interesting rather than regurgitating FPS, sports and racing for 100 more years. Of course some of this works in the indie scene and sometimes it stretches into the realms of AAA but not quite.

An example i'd like to give is Shadow of the collossus. Its an amazing game to experience, it has a great story to follow and it is an emotional experience at times. Thats the kind of nextgen experience I want. I always look for games that are about exploration, mid paced, puzzle elements and great soundtracks.

Of course VR will become a selling point. I'd rather see it used in applications that are simple and interesting like a Space Harrier game or a Powerdrift style game. Where looking around adds a dynamic but its simple and fun.

There is no point consoles doing the whole "my cock is bigger than yours" thing. Because PC owners can spend x5 what the console costs and get a bigger cock than anyone elses. Its the content that drives a consoles success and if the buyers and developers agree that AAA is all about racing, Sports and FPS it doesn't matter to me.

Lets see what happens.



I agree 100%. I was starting to think it was just me.

A large portion of new games are simply boring to play. They look nice but they take too long to get into, they lack replay value, they force you to sit through boring cut scenes and gameplay often involves endless wandering through virtual worlds looking for stuff.

I often prefer retro stuff because I just want a quick game of something fun. I rarely want to spend all day working my way through a complex and boring game story.


Yes we are definitely on the same page. As opposed to the other folks in this thread talking about porting. The "porting" argument just adds fuel to the ideology that apart from the brand name on the box, nothing is really that different. Consoles are much like cars, in that the technology inside each one of them is largely the same but we prefer to have choice on design and performance specs, but we get from A to B in all in them.

Lets take the argument one step further. Lets say for example Nintendo's next console can project an hologram image into thin air and you don't need a TV to get the big world experience. But at the same time it projects at 1440p. What is more exciting that or a conventional 4K 600fps Doom 26? I know where my money would go, because the experience of holographic tech is new and exciting and the unique experience it represents from what went before.

But then, PS6 might have a great adventure, with a great storyline and an unbelievable soundtrack and I would definitely buy a PS6 for that.

In the 2 examples, I have bought 2 machines capable of very different things and thats justified. But if said adventure comes out on PS6 and Xbox (place your number here) and PS6 runs the game at 30fps and the Xbox (place your number here) runs it at 60fps. Its not enough for me to buy both consoles. I would just buy one.


I would argue that exclusive content is a seller, that games that leave an impression on you sell a system and that devs should try different things to sell a system.

The question should not be "can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progress". It should read "Do the developers have a vision beyond what is currently possible on current gen?".

Thank you.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:33 pm 



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The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:26 pm 



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H6rdc0re wrote:
The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


What would the leap be if we were still using HD as the best display technology? Since 4k is good enough for most applications and 8k for gigantic applications, where does it go from there. You need to think outside the box. I'm already bored of gaming.

16 bit - 120 games bought
32 bit - 80 games bought
PS2/Xbox/GC era - 35 games bought
PS3/360 - 20 games bought
PS4/Xbone/switch - 18 games bought so far

Its almost not worth even buying another console if the trend continues. In my opinion the reason for the drastic reduction in games bought is because there isn't enough difference between the games released. You just pick the best one and you are practically done. I'm also a "physical buyer" which means that its the type of storage which is drying up and hardly any games shops anymore. It also means you get the crappiest version of the game because all the upgraded content is D/L only.

After the next generation, I fear the industry will find it really hard to justify another nextgen after that.
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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:24 pm 



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It's also likely that you're just getting older and not enjoying games as much anymore. It happens. It's happened to me, and it's happened to many people. The world moves on without you. What may have been attractive and "fun" to you is not necessarily the case with the majority of the buying public. Therefore, what is being produced is designed to fit the consumer base, not us old farts. :D

If something makes money with a high profit margin the game companies will flock to that. Both in their hardware design choice, and in their software development. Perhaps that's why the hardware of consoles are getting more and more similar as each generation moves by. It's cheaper for hardware design and for software development.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:35 pm 



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True. That’s why most of us spend so much on retro gaming. I can only speak for myself but I have spent much more money on my retro setups than my two current gen setups rocking 2 OLED TVs, 2 Xbox One Xs and 2 PS4 Pro’s with 2 PSVRs. No bragging just making a statement that even with such setups my retro setups are more expensive.

Retro gaming vs current gen for me is something like 70% vs 30%.


Last edited by H6rdc0re on Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:39 pm 



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neorichieb1971 wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:
The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


What would the leap be if we were still using HD as the best display technology? Since 4k is good enough for most applications and 8k for gigantic applications, where does it go from there. You need to think outside the box. I'm already bored of gaming.

I don't think you can define a leap solely based on resolution. The SNES, N64, and PS2 could/would both output at 480i, but it would be dishonest to suggest that there weren't huge leaps between those consoles.

If you're buying fewer games as time goes on, then it could be a stagnation in the games industry. It seems like, moreso than in years past, there really aren't many unique, fun games that are coming out, because they're not seen as profitable. Most publishers these days seem to be focused on arena games, microtransactions, and gambling mechanics; none of which is enjoyable.

In my case, I'm finding that there are fewer and fewer games that have interested in me, and it's gotten to the point where I'd like a PS4, but I can't justify the hardware cost. For example, I'd really like to play Psychonauts: Rhombus of Ruin, but it's difficult to justify spending $350 + ~$300 (plus tax) for a PS4 Pro and a PSVR with the camera for a 2-hour game.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:48 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:
The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


What would the leap be if we were still using HD as the best display technology? Since 4k is good enough for most applications and 8k for gigantic applications, where does it go from there. You need to think outside the box. I'm already bored of gaming.

I don't think you can define a leap solely based on resolution. The SNES, N64, and PS2 could/would both output at 480i, but it would be dishonest to suggest that there weren't huge leaps between those consoles.

If you're buying fewer games as time goes on, then it could be a stagnation in the games industry. It seems like, moreso than in years past, there really aren't many unique, fun games that are coming out, because they're not seen as profitable. Most publishers these days seem to be focused on arena games, microtransactions, and gambling mechanics; none of which is enjoyable.

In my case, I'm finding that there are fewer and fewer games that have interested in me, and it's gotten to the point where I'd like a PS4, but I can't justify the hardware cost. For example, I'd really like to play Psychonauts: Rhombus of Ruin, but it's difficult to justify spending $350 + ~$300 (plus tax) for a PS4 Pro and a PSVR with the camera for a 2-hour game.


From 4th to 5th generation and from 6th to 7th generation are the biggest leaps till date. Comparing the most powerful 4th generation console (Neo Geo) to the most powerful 5th generation console (N64) that’s about a 40-50x leap and going to the most powerful 6th generation console (Xbox) that’s about a 60-75x leap. For example going to most powerful 7th generation console (Xbox 360) is only about a 20-25x leap.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:37 pm 



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neorichieb1971 wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:
The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


What would the leap be if we were still using HD as the best display technology? Since 4k is good enough for most applications and 8k for gigantic applications, where does it go from there. You need to think outside the box. I'm already bored of gaming.

16 bit - 120 games bought
32 bit - 80 games bought
PS2/Xbox/GC era - 35 games bought
PS3/360 - 20 games bought
PS4/Xbone/switch - 18 games bought so far

Its almost not worth even buying another console if the trend continues. In my opinion the reason for the drastic reduction in games bought is because there isn't enough difference between the games released. You just pick the best one and you are practically done. I'm also a "physical buyer" which means that its the type of storage which is drying up and hardly any games shops anymore. It also means you get the crappiest version of the game because all the upgraded content is D/L only.

After the next generation, I fear the industry will find it really hard to justify another nextgen after that.



The lack of meaningful progress and innovation is what has made me skip the current / PS4 generation. I am more than your average gamer but I can't find enough of an upgrade between late PS3 games and the PS4 to peak my interest. I already have more games than I could ever hope to play so buying more needs a good reason.

Obviously there is a spec increase on paper but that quantum leap in the advertised capability is just not showing up in the games. We just get more dots and slightly nicer light or shadow effects. Let's face it, only the most dedicated technology enthusiasts notice or care about these effects.

If we are going to continue down this road, I would prefer that they stopped making new platforms and just make current machines upgradable like PCs.

Since we first saw 3d games, PC users have been able to adjust the special effects, resolution and FPS to match their current CPU and GPU. There are no new platforms, just minimum spec requirements. Or, the focus should shift back to making fun games instead of more T flops.

It is telling that large publishers like Konami are abandoning console games to focus only on mobile gaming.... My prediction is that the PS5 will be the last new console generation.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:54 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 100
Classicgamer wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:
The next generation should be a pretty nice upgrade comparable from the 7th generation to the current generation. Will we ever see a leap as with 5th and 6th generation? Probably not.


What would the leap be if we were still using HD as the best display technology? Since 4k is good enough for most applications and 8k for gigantic applications, where does it go from there. You need to think outside the box. I'm already bored of gaming.

16 bit - 120 games bought
32 bit - 80 games bought
PS2/Xbox/GC era - 35 games bought
PS3/360 - 20 games bought
PS4/Xbone/switch - 18 games bought so far

Its almost not worth even buying another console if the trend continues. In my opinion the reason for the drastic reduction in games bought is because there isn't enough difference between the games released. You just pick the best one and you are practically done. I'm also a "physical buyer" which means that its the type of storage which is drying up and hardly any games shops anymore. It also means you get the crappiest version of the game because all the upgraded content is D/L only.

After the next generation, I fear the industry will find it really hard to justify another nextgen after that.



The lack of meaningful progress and innovation is what has made me skip the current / PS4 generation. I am more than your average gamer but I can't find enough of an upgrade between late PS3 games and the PS4 to peak my interest. I already have more games than I could ever hope to play so buying more needs a good reason.

Obviously there is a spec increase on paper but that quantum leap in the advertised capability is just not showing up in the games. We just get more dots and slightly nicer light or shadow effects. Let's face it, only the most dedicated technology enthusiasts notice or care about these effects.

If we are going to continue down this road, I would prefer that they stopped making new platforms and just make current machines upgradable like PCs.

Since we first saw 3d games, PC users have been able to adjust the special effects, resolution and FPS to match their current CPU and GPU. There are no new platforms, just minimum spec requirements. Or, the focus should shift back to making fun games instead of more T flops.

It is telling that large publishers like Konami are abandoning console games to focus only on mobile gaming.... My prediction is that the PS5 will be the last new console generation.


Oh come on now. Never seen God of War, Spiderman, Red Dead Redemption 2, Detroit Become Human, Days Gone, Forza 7, Forza Horizon 4, Gears of War 4 or the upcoming Last of Us 2? Just to name a few. All of these games are lightyears ahead of anything on the PS3 or Xbox 360. Saying the step from the previous generation is small is incorrect. Xbox One X has 24x the RAM, 15x the memory bandwidth, 30x the raw graphical horse power and a better CPU compared to Xbox 360. PS4 Pro albeit weaker still is a huge upgrade compared to Xbox 360. The weakest link in current consoles is it’s Jaguar CPU but that’s still much more powerful compared to Xenon and Cell processors.

I don’t like the trend of all these online shooters or sandbox with nothing to do games either. However saying this generation isn’t that much better than the previous generation is incorrect.

For example a simple port job like Last of Us 1 can run native 4k compared to 720p on PS3. In resolution alone that’s 9x the resolution and that’s even ignoring the graphical upgrades and more stable performance. Most games I’ve mentioned couldn’t run on previous generation.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:04 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 655
Xyga wrote:
There are more meaningful basic vs. pro comparison videos out there, some games benefit on graphics, some on framerate, and it's often only a little improvement.
Naturally, the Pro was only a small upgrade (at high price).
I wonder if people are really fixated on that Spidey game in particular though, what would be the reason? a new random meme?

Comparing the 16bit was different in that they were more different hardwares, today the consoles are more like PCs often carrying the same games so it's rather boring.
And it goes on, more akin to PC gaming comparisons and who has the biggest d*** of a GPU, so...I won't be much interested in comparing results on the upcoming consoles, just more of the same a bit like Hollywood and its green background blockbusters that cost more than sending a rocket to the moon.

Before even looking awesome games need to be interesting and plenty on the platform, and the basic console experience must remain a thing, as always, the consoles that tick those boxes win the market, is there even anything left for debate?



The reason for the focus on Spiderman in particular is that it is the first PS4 game that is potentially tempting enough to make me consider buying a PS4. It is also "AAA" enough to be broadly representative.

Naturally, people thinking of buying a PS4 to play Spiderman will face a choice of spending $400 for the pro or $150 -$200 for a regular PS4 off ebay. At that point they will want to know what they get for the extra cash for the pro.

For super nerds like us, you can explain it in terms of tech specs and differences in effects like motion blur and FPS. For the other 99%, a side by side video tells them everything they need to know. They'll ask "can I see a difference?". And "do I care?".

So far, the general consensus is that you can't see an actual difference with the Pro during normal moving gameplay.


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 Post subject: Re: Can the next gen of consoles show any meaningful progres
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:14 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 100
Classicgamer wrote:
Xyga wrote:
There are more meaningful basic vs. pro comparison videos out there, some games benefit on graphics, some on framerate, and it's often only a little improvement.
Naturally, the Pro was only a small upgrade (at high price).
I wonder if people are really fixated on that Spidey game in particular though, what would be the reason? a new random meme?

Comparing the 16bit was different in that they were more different hardwares, today the consoles are more like PCs often carrying the same games so it's rather boring.
And it goes on, more akin to PC gaming comparisons and who has the biggest d*** of a GPU, so...I won't be much interested in comparing results on the upcoming consoles, just more of the same a bit like Hollywood and its green background blockbusters that cost more than sending a rocket to the moon.

Before even looking awesome games need to be interesting and plenty on the platform, and the basic console experience must remain a thing, as always, the consoles that tick those boxes win the market, is there even anything left for debate?



The reason for the focus on Spiderman in particular is that it is the first PS4 game that is potentially tempting enough to make me consider buying a PS4. It is also "AAA" enough to be broadly representative.

Naturally, people thinking of buying a PS4 to play Spiderman will face a choice of spending $400 for the pro or $150 -$200 for a regular PS4 off ebay. At that point they will want to know what they get for the extra cash for the pro.

For super nerds like us, you can explain it in terms of tech specs and differences in effects like motion blur and FPS. For the other 99%, a side by side video tells them everything they need to know. They'll ask "can I see a difference?". And "do I care?".

So far, the general consensus is that you can't see an actual difference with the Pro during normal moving gameplay.


Sure they can see it, they just don’t care and aren’t to spend more money. Same with something like OLED. Nobody in the world can tell me with a straight face they can’t see the difference compared to LCD, they just don’t care. Similar to optical media versus streaming media.


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